The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

11 Founder Story: Julian Page, Managing Director on How, Why & What Livingstone Tanzania Trust

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian • Season 1 • Episode 12

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Please welcome to the "GLT Clearing" Ladies n' Genmin, my very special guest and long-term friend, Julian P Page, Managing Director of the Livingstone Tanzania Trust.

Julian co-founded the Charity in 2007, after a career changing epiphany and a realisation of a desire to step in and proactively help to bring about change, in a way that went way beyond the more familiar approach by most, of just giving money.  He started a Charity that is now supporting many fantastic initiatives that adress the underlying causes of poverty.

His wonderful Charity has the ambitious, brave and commendable aim of  "adressesing poverty in the African region in all its complex aspects: Offering help and support to empower the community - and crucially staying there as long as it takes - until support is no longer needed or required".

And what a wonderful story and account of his journey Julian brings.

Julian also explains the African philosophy of "Mbuntu":

"How can a person be happy when their neighbour is not?"

The Livingstone Tanzania Trust now needs our help more than ever. An organisation whose vision is "to see the people of the Manyara Region unlock their potential, overcome poverty and live long, happy and healthy lives where all are respected and valued."

You can find out more about Julian and the the work of  the Trust c/o www.livingstonetanzaniatrust.com

So - pull up a cup of coffee (or even better, a glass of wine!) and enjoy the ride!

And thank you for listening to another episode of a "GLT with me CG!"

If you'd like to find out more, then please do check out my websites www.secondcurve.uk + www.instantwit.co.uk - and there's also a dedicated "Good Listening To" Facebook Group c/o the link above.

Plus if you'd be interested in the experience of being given "a damn good listening to" yourself, or you'd like to explore the idea of some Personal Impact Coaching from me CG - to help level-up your confidence, communication, and personal impact c/o my online Coaching proposition: The Second Curve "Zoom Room" - then, by all means, do get in touch via any of the usual social media channels (see above) or you can email me at chris@secondcurve.uk 

(The Second Curve "Zoom Room": Coaching to get you to the next level - or Clarity on how to get to "where next?")

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Excellent!
And we're in! A very exciting - yet another exciting morning - here on the"Good
Listening To Podcast".
I'm delighted to bring into the Clearing - Julian Page,
who is the managing director of the "Livingstone Tanzania 
Trust".
An entity that has an extraordinary imperative linked to 
the African philosophy of "Mbuntu",
which I'll invite Julian to tell us about shortly.
But it's a very philanthropic on altruistic endeavour 
I'm hugely respectful of the very,
very significant and important work that you're doing in that region.
I have a resonance with Livingstone in that I grew up in Uganda 
and I've even been to what I think is called the Peak Memorial where Stanley found 
Livingstone.
He was quite ill at the time,
apparently and said Dr Livingstone,
I presume.
But we'll let you tell us all the backstory of that.
Please welcome to the clearing,
Julian Page.
Thank you.
Chris very exciting to be here.
Wonderful And how's morale?
How are you today?
Very well,
thank you.
The sky is grey as grey can be but I am happy 
inside.
So that's good.
I love that Happy inside of the lovely thing to say so First of all,
I'm going to bring you into a clearing which we're going to talk about what that metaphorically means to you.
But just to give yourself some context is to just before we talk about the storytelling metaphors,
I'm gonna unpack for us.
What brought you to the clearing of the Livingstone Tanzania Trust?
What was your, What was your journey towards that passion and endeavour?
Oh,
well,
I have travel lots as a kid.
I went to Africa when I was 18 for 3 or 4 months wondering around, and have 
been back numerous times since and just fell in love with the place completely 
and
Then when I was working the law firm,
I worked as a facilities manager.
There was,
ah,
move to merge two firms together and the culture was gonna change 
from work hard play hard to work hard,
work hard on.
That didn't seem like there was something I wanted necessarily be part of so it gave me a 
choice to rethink what I wanted to do.
And I remember watching a video clip a number of years ago and Red Nose day 
of a three year old street child who was living with her sister on the streets 
and the sister was One, and the sister
couldn't walk,
has rats and even her feet who I was I was so appalled,
horrified,
You know,
I gave £50,
which at the time was a lot of money for me.
But that image never left me and,
then with my brother had kids,
and they were kind of like the same sort of age I was thinking how on earth would my brother's kids cope in that 
environment.
And they just wouldn't,
you know,
so,
I just thought You know what?
Now is the time,
to and do something.
because
the social inequality was just shocking.
And I had a chat with some friends and they said,
You can't just go and hug an orphan it doesn't work like that.
You've gotta have some skills.
You gotta have something to offer.
So I went back to university and did a masters in international development with sustainable 
tourism.
Then,
through that,
I did my dissertation on poverty alleviation through tourism in 
Tanzania.
Andi thought you know what?
I was 39.
No one's gonna give me a job because I've got no experience in this field whatsoever.
Let's just get on and do it.
So together with a friend of mine,
we we got together and we got on with him.
That's kind of how it started
Don't you wonderful and that just that pro activity.
And as you say,
it's not just about hugging an orphan or sitting there,
you know,
metaphorically on our sofa.
Just go oh! thinking that we're doing something I know paying money towards charities is really,
really important,
which is partly what you know.
I hope this this episode,
but will help drivers towards as well.
But I love your pro activity and just there the calling that
I perceive that you had.
And do you think it is being a calling?
no,
that's all.
I mean,
I went to a Quaker school and Quakerism is all 
about,
you know,
caring about society,
and we all have a role in society to contribute to society in some fashion,
and at the time,
what I was doing was contributing money every now and again to different charities.
But to have the opportunity to actually be a valued contributor was 
quite exciting.
Step for me.
So perhaps it was very selfish for me.
I'd worked 13 years in the basement and suddenly I was gonna be working in the Africa seeing Sky 
and people and life.
Yes,
that's fantastic choice.
And that's a lovely Segway into the Mbuntu philosophy,
the African philosophy that I know the Livingstone Tanzania Trust has dear to its heart.
You want to just tell us a bit about what that philosophy is.
That philosophy is based around the idea that how can you be happy 
when your neighbour isn't?
so, If you think of,
let's say,
the current South Africa today,
you know you've got lots of people living in beautiful homes surrounded by barbed wire 
and then outside of the barbed wire.
Lots of people who are no happy, living in poverty or living in really 
challenging environments.
Yes,
and so who's who's who's happy and the environment.
There's got to be much more equitable distribution of wealth.
Yes,
I'm not talking about communism or anything like that,
but it is about,
you know,
sharing and caring.
And,
you know,
if you've got something that your neighbour needs,
you know you support your neighbour.
Yes,
absolutely.
I just love that philosophy.
It's really,
really rich indeed.
And it's all about,
you know,
I understand that you want to offer help and support until it is no 
longer needed or required,
which is such a lovely endeavour in the communities in which you operate 
We have a kind of view of charity work in that 
many charities do brilliant work on education in 
a country in Africa.
Let's stay on,
do an education programme and think that's going to alleviate poverty or they'll do a health programme and think that will 
alleviate poverty.
And individually,
they're all brilliant things,
but actually as a community.
You know.
Poverty is caused by so many things that actually you need to be addressing all of them in the community 
if you really want to alleviate policy,
and that is why we say we'll stay there as long as it takes,
because we know that there are so many different angles to approach.
In orderto help,
people address poverty for themselves. 
And as the story has evolved and I hope,
come full circle,
have red nose and the charity of that got involved in helping the Livingstone Tanzania Trust over time.
No,
sadly not,
Red Nose Days is a challenge for us because they're very specific on the things 
that they will sponsor and support.
Yeah,
which are all great things,
but not necessarily things that we deal with.
So they might focus specifically on disabled Children in schools where we were 
that that's not such an issue for us.
So what is your raison d'etat then?
What is the cause that you're really?
I mean,
it's quite universal.
You want to be there and be present whilst all help is required.
So what would you say?
The main thrust of the Livingstone Tanzania Trust is in terms of what you want to help.
Ah,
main aim is to help.
people develop the skills and knowledge so that they can release the potential they have inside 
themselves to be living a healthy,
happy life where all are respected,
and valued.
So it's about.
helping people get the knowledge and skills to do things for themselves.
So self empowerment.
So somewhere in there is the allegory of that story about.
You know,
if you teach a man to fish,
he'll eat for the rest of his life.
Whereas if you just give him a fish or a woman,
they will just eat once.
So this is about longevity and sustainability?
Yes,
and we kind of tackle it from You know,
you gotta look at the kids, the kids who are the kids of today.
They've got to get the knowledge and skills in their schools so they can progress the secondary school to 
university so you can deal with the future.
Yeah.
You still got to deal with the parents of those kids.
Yes,
You cant just ignore them.
They're they're They're part of the problem.
not Part of the problem.
Part of the story?
Yeah,
in the if they can't afford to send their students,  their Children,
to.
Secondary school or university.
Then the education is going to stop.
So you support them to improve their livelihoods so that they can afford to send their kids?
Yes,
to further education.
So if I made to your own story within this clearing which we're going to come on two more explicitly in a 
moment.
I'm not trying to aid you,
but you did say you went and retrained at 39 when you had a bit of a sort of 
awakening of sorts.
So how many years have you now been MD Of the 
Livingstone Tanzania Trust ?
14.
I think it is.
So yeah,
this this been going a long time now,
quite shocking
And it is now it's basically life quest.
You can tell that it's absolutely your your your reason for being?
Yes,
Absolutely.
I mean  to me.
I think I have a fantastic job.
I work with brilliant people.
I work in an environment in the charity world where everybody is hugely positive 
on
That's just great to be working with positive people.
And I get to go to,
Tanzania near and work with brilliant people out there.
Yes.
So,
yeah,
love It wouldn't change it for the world.
And in terms of where your heart chimes the most when you were 18 and sort of travelling around Africa 
backpacking Did you Did you go to the region that you now specialise in,
well I went to Tanzania,
where I very nearly got mugged hot,
but no.
We didn't stay there very long.
So not really,  the reason that we chose Tanzania 
was because it so it has always been very stable 
politically and as Julius Nyerere
Who's the founding father of Tanzania is .
a
fantastic leader.
Um,
he has created a peaceful environment in that country for 50 odd years now.
Yeah,
and yeah,
he's an inspiration.
And have you met the man yourself?
No,
Sadly he passed away quite a long time ago.
So has legacy still lives on?
One of the things we try to do is implement some of the things that he 
failed to achieve because the ideas were so right.
But he didn't have the resources of the time to do it.
So Okay,
so that's things like he wanted schools to be self sufficient self reliant.
Yeah.
So we now work with schools to help them establish income generation activities 
 like market gardens,
farms,
cattle,
fish,
whatever and then,
that money that they generate, the profits from that, go back into the school to help maintain the schools 
and mentioning fish there.
That's the banks of Lake Tanganyika,
which coming again full circle is where Livingstone and Stanley had that very iconic 
exchange of Dr Livingstone,
I presume?
Yes,
At Ujuji
And interestingly or not,
you may think it's 150 years next year,
from that activity.
So yeah,
we we will try to celebrate that in some fashion.
I don't know how yet.
Well,
if I can help in any way with that,
it would be my pleasure.
And I hope you get a doctorate someday so we can greet you there and say,
Dr Page,
I presume.
And by the way,
he never said that.
You know,
there's always just a myth.
Yes,
we've been friends,
by the way,
for many years.
I know,
but I always think of you in your charitable works because of 
the cartoon Madagascar.
I always think of you as being King Julian because there you are King Julian on 
the banks of Lake Tanganyika.
Fantastic 
shaking my booty.
Yes,
we can do that at the end.
It's a podcast.
He can dance to your heart's content.
It's good,
but we are going to use the film version as well.
Thank you for that wonderful description.
An introduction.
I'll come back to a particular question about your charity at the end
remembering again it's the Livingstone Tanzania Trust,  So.
Julian Page,
Dr Livingstone I presume you are.
I'm gonna bring you to it.
Clearing now.
Now it's a metaphor which is open to your interpretation for you,
Julian Page as the man that you are.
What is a clearing like for you?
Where do you go to get clutter?
Free,
inspirational,
And able to think 
I go to Richmond Park,
which is about 10 miles away from here.
There's a pond,
not the big Pen Ponds
but another.
There's a little small pond that's gotta bench by it.
Yeah,
and very few people go there and I just go there and take my book.
And then after about half an hour,
I get bored to reading my book,
and I just sit there contemplating things arrive and things go and it's 
you just.
And if you stay there for about two hours,
you're getting cold and you're gonna go.
Yes,
the cold is telling me I'm alive,
so deal with it.
Move on,
keep thinking.
Then when you get a sore bottom,
it's time to get up and go.
It's a beautiful place for me,
a great philosophy.
When you get a sore bum,
it's time to get up and go.
I can quote you on that doctor Julian Page .
That's phenomenal.
Please don't.
So if I find out,
I'm going to join you at your bench.
And I noticed that.
I thought when you first said I take my book that you're going to be a journaler.
But you're actually talking about reading a book of choice.
Is that right?
Yes.
Which would probably be some escapist trash, an airport read
what we currently reading dear?
I'm reading 
Lee Child's Jack Reacher book.
I read lots of those.
They think about this one by my bed over there.
I can't see the type.
Really.
They're really good.
Don't challenge you in any way.
And it's just a good story to follow through on.
I love that.
And on the words follow through on,
we shall now follow through to the next part of the clearing.
So if I may join you at your bench next to the lake in Richmond Park,
metaphorically and I brought a tree with me.
Can you see any trees and where your sat anyway?
Yeah.
Excellent.
So this is a metaphorical or even a literal tree,
if you like.
In fact,
recently in coming up with the idea of my logo for the good.
Listening to podcast.
You know,
the best ideas happen outdoors,
as Nietzsche said,
and I found a tree,
which I thought,
Gosh,
boom,
that is the tree I've been thinking about.
So nature is a great inspirational in that regard.
Anyway,
we're going to shake the tree to see which storytelling apples fall out.
And you were kind enough to agree to prepare a storytelling exercise before we 
joined each other in this conversation today.
And it's called 54321 where you've had five minutes Julian Page from the Livingstone
Tanzania Trust to think about four things that have shaped you 
three things that inspire you two things that never failed to grab your attention.
And then one quirky or unusual fact about you,
Julian Page that we couldn't possibly know until you tell us now.
Don't panic,
Mr Mannering.
You don't have to do all of that in one big monumental tree shake and then big,
heavy apples fall out.
You can pick those apples out and chomp into them as you see fit.
So where would you like to start on the open road of that exercise.
I think starting at the beginning with the Quaker school,
I went to that I talked about earlier.
And that shaped me because it was a school that 
didn't necessarily focus on academia.
You were allowed to be yourself in fact.they
encouraged you to be an individual.
Remember that scene from the Dead Poets Society,
where Robin Williams is getting them all to walk around the courtyard and they all end up in 
in pace with each other well that is exactly what .
the school I went to it encourages you not to do.
Okay.
You remember the guy who sat on the wall and said,
I respectfully decide to not participate.
That's exactly what the school was all about.
It gave you the space than the choice to be an individual.
I love the idea that there's a maverickness to being on the wall.
The outsider,
the outlier.
I'm thinking,
You know what?
I'm not going to do what everyone else is doing.
And indeed,
in your own journey,
you definitely found a bit of a T junction where you decided to turn left rather than right in terms of changing 
your career.
Yeah,
and I think that's what Quakerism,
And I'm not a particularly good Quaker,
but it allows you to be that kind of individual to make those choices.
Rather,
Quakers for me are people who very quietly go 
about,
bringing about change and they don't brag about it and they don't boast 
about it.
They just quietly get on with it,
which also makes it very difficult for me trying to run a charity where you're supposed to promote 
everything.
I struggle with that element because it just feels so wrong.
There is such a delicious humility in the value of the man you're being Julian 
Page.
I absolutely I love how your chiming with that particular value 
and indeed one of the hopes with me interviewing you is that we can sort  of amplify the voice of 
you and the Livingstone Tanzania Trust so that you could get more of what you deserve,
which is a wonderful endeavour that you're all about.
That's very kind.
Thank you.
So Number one is the Quaker school and by why you made me think not just a dead poet Society of 
that lovely Monty Python thing.
We're all individuals.
I'm not.
Yeah,
You go to Tanzania.
Say what else has shaped you.
So what else has shaped me?
So as I said earlier,
I went off to Africa with some friends.
Mine.
When I was 18,
we went We did a bit in Egypt and then Kenya,
Tanzania,
Zambia,
Zimbabwe.
And there was a discussion about going into South Africa.
This was in 1986 and i didn't know much around the apartheid 
situation,
but we had that discussion.
About well 
We're not gonna go into their country.
One of my friends is a Zambian.
She wouldn't be allowed to stay in the same hotel as us.
she wouldn't be allowed on the same bus as  us.
And it was what?
What What?
What?
What?
That's ridiculous.
And so coming back from that trip,
I kind of like,
decided to look it up and what is all of this and learnt so much 
about the anti apartheid movement and the situation in South Africa.
And they when I got to Manchester University or Poly as it was 
help sets up the anti apartheid group.
They're They're a small group of us way We went on our marches and we came down to London and 
demonstrated and we spent time sticking stickers on fruit 
danger contaminated with apartheid.
All of that sort of stuff,
Yeah,
on that whole realisation of global 
social inequity in a really hit home with me.
And then just when you realise that actually the world's not necessarily a very nice place 
um,
having lived in my lovely bubble,
yes,
you can either accept it or you can challenge it.
And I wanted to challenge it because that's not the world I wanted to live in.
So that trip had a lot of,
you know,
apart from the fact that I saw beautiful places,
had that kind of great learning experience for me,
that's one of the most profound illustrations of how something as an early 
formative experience in our adulthood,
early adulthood can be absolutely something that shapes us.
So the fact that Africa became very much implanted in you as 
part of your soul chime is very,
very interesting.
It was I think that for me,
and there was a whole space.
The people were just so phenomenally friendly,
and generous of spirit.
And yes,
they might not have had lots.
And they might have lived in very challenging environment or at least,
challenging for my perspective.
But they're still hugely generous.
And,
you know,
when you come back to the UK,
you know,
those things disappear very quickly and you don't find people so often who are.
Oh,
generous character.
Except now in in the world I inhabit I'm surrounded by them which is fantastic.
So I like that. Lovely.
And what else has shaped you,
Julian Page,
What else has shaped me?
I,
went to catering college up in Manchester,
and we were taught there to be Jack of all trades,
and master of none.
So we were taught to be a chef,
to be a waiter,
to be a front of house person.
All of these things,
so that if needs be,
we could pop into the kitchen if the breakfast shift hadn't turned up and do stuff,
and that's kind of lead me into facilities management as a career,
Um,
I found myself in a situation where I'm literally pulling 
strings to get other people to do things.
So I'm not delivering the mail in the law firm.
Other people are,
but I'm managing them,
supporting them to do it.
I'm supporting the cleaners,
the receptionist,
the security,
all of those other things.
So I found that actually,
being a jack of all trades is a fantastic thing 
Something to be cherished.
And then when I kind of started this role,
I found that actually,
I can continue being jack of all trades because I'm not a master in International Development in the 
slightest.
But I have surrounded myself with people who are significantly cleverer than I am
All I have to do is make sure that they've got the space to do all of the things they're brilliant at.
So that whole going into the catering world completely shaped me.,
into how I manage things.
And I remember working with all sorts of managers in the in the hotels and things 
learning from them so much as to how not to manage.
I can't think of a single good manager I had in the hotel,
so I've taken all of the bits that I thought were rubbish thrown them out and just worked with all the 
things I thought were good and that I try and work with that as much as possible
And that leadership philosophy of Surround Yourself with people who are great and even greater than 
ourselves in their own specialist ability is a beautiful philosophy 
And
The fact we've learned monumentally seismic lessons from instances of greatly leadership
 but also the toxic ones make us ,
even better leaders,
because we can throw those out and put them in the bin,
as you say,
Yes,
absolutely.
And I think that to me was really informative,
really great.
And you made me.
It made me think of a sort of puppet meister there when you talked about pulling strings,
the the old style puppets of the It's a word beginning with M that I 
can't remember now,
but it's this idea of a puppet marionette.
That's the word I couldn't quite come up with.
So so your enabler of others and a bit of a marionette of pulling other people strings to 
enable them to do what they do best.
Hope so
yes,
and again Your humility keeps coming through,
which is just a joy to observe and anything else.
I think we're nearly at the end of the what has shaped U.
This is number four coming now.
The other things that shape me where there was that video of those kids.
I'm thinking of my brother's kids .
That was just profoundly shocking to me.
That's really what then shaped the rest of my direction.
Yes,
and I know your brother well as well.
And his Children that you're talking about and what a cherished uncle I know you are,
well
It's Fletcher's footprint on 
as our Logo,
is it?
Yeah,
I didn't know that well,
Louis refused to have his  Little foot painted Fletch was too young to 
object,
so we just took it off him.
Sorry Fletch.
Yeah,
I didn't steal his foot.
Just to be clear,
you just imprinted it for it for a few moments.
Yes,
I so love that.
Because,
of course,
that's beautiful,
because most people just assume that's a graphic of a foot.
But the fact it's your nephews foot boff.
Fletcher.
What a cool name as well.
And I know Fletcher well to the Geezer's foot is there on the Livingstone 
Tanzania Trust logo.
I love that.
That's that's something I didn't know.
Thank you very much.
Yes,
that footprint very much relates to those two girls.
It also relates that whole philosophy of when you travel.
Leave only your footprint mentality.
You don't leave your rubbish behind.
Yes,
you're lying.
He was originally the Livingstone Tanzania Trust was going to be.... the reason we are
called Livingstone in the first place was that we were going to follow Livingstons's foot....his 
paths,
his routes from the coast to Ujuji and other tracks that he went on.
And then we were gonna follow others like Burton and Speke.
We're going to support the villages and communities that we went through.
Sorry,
You've you've just reminded I misquoted.
It's to the Speke memorial that I visited in Uganda.
I called it Peak at the beginning,
but it was the Speke.
Quite right.
Sorry.
That was way found them.
We found so many Tanzanians had died on those treks that we thought it was 
completely immoral to carry on with that idea.
So we just binned it.
But by that time we'd already registered ourselves with Livingstone,
and that's very interesting,
this sort of zeitgeist this year,
particularly with statues of the past in 
icons of the past being sort of revisited because their story is darker,
mean even where I live in Bristol,
it's,
you know,
that I remember,
as everyone knows,
it's steeped in the blood of slavery,
the foundation stones of the same on this year.
Very iconically,
of course.
The Coulston statue was,
in a wonderful moment of promenade theatre was sort of felled,
clanged towards the harbour and plopped in.
And it was called the harbouring a well known criminal who 
waste and seems to have escaped that on the basis that 
he was very anti slave trade at the time on fought against the slave trade.
He also he was a grumpy Scotsman who really didn't 
like white people at the end.
The was sent out,
so he went out to try and convert people,
but found that actually they didn't need converting and he respected them and he respected their 
lifestyles.
And that's why he stayed there.
So when you know,
when he was allegedly lost,
he wasn't lost it all , when Stanley turned up to find him.
Now you found him?
Yes,
he was sick,
but he was living very happily.
Thank you very much indeed.
Not lost it all.
He had actually found himself.
He wasn't lost.
Yes,
he found himself.
And so you have Livingstone (Town),
in Zambia,
where they're still statues that stand proudly.
Zambians haven't got rid of the name Livingstone for that town 
because I assume there's still a lot of respect for him.
And when I talk to people in Tanzania about the name you know they have never even 
heard of him.
So they don't have a problem with it,
which is interesting because we have had that discussion about whether or not we should change the name.
So far,
we were not. For all the right reasons.
It seems and I just love just to revisit that lovely expression of you have to get lost in order to find 
yourself his lovely So I believe that shaken the apples of 
what's shaped you.
So now what?
The three things that inspire you.
The three things that inspire me.
Well,
I've had to think about that.
I decided the same three people, wouldn't work.
But I'm gonna group them into "people", I've got on my list.
Biko Mandela and Gandhi,
those people of phenomenal strength of character who had the courage to 
follow through with all of their actions,
all in different ways.
So Gandhi was completely into peace.
Mandela was tactically,
you know,
wanted peace,
but was denied it, and Biko ignored all of those things and was talking 
about Actually,
you've got to change from within, and that the oppression from the white people 
in South Africa,
we are allowing them to oppress us.
We have to start saying black is beautiful.
We've got to stop having these negative connotations about ourselves.
And once we have that,
then we can go forward and challenge the apartheid state.
And it's because that mentality was so much more dangerous than fighting.
that is,
I suspect, why they killed him.
Yeah,
So those three kind of like high up on my list of the people that 
 inspire me. keep me going.
I just thought that was so articulately put who and why, I just want to leave that 
floating there,
because I think you you've done a beautiful job of the reason for that 
source of inspiration.
Okay,
Cool
the other thing.
Other people,
inspire me are travellers,
people who haven't desire a bit like me.
To,
just keep looking over the horizon and wondering what's there and just keep going,
you know,
because it's not that the grass is greener,
is that the grass is different,
yes,
and that the culture is different than their life is different.
And what can we learn from being in different places from different people that 
can enrich us in some way.
So I always know when there's travel storys.
When there's travel films,
you know,
you just cant
I just can't not.
Watch them.
I think they're brilliant.
And Michael Palin,
in that regard for me is an absolute legend.
You know,
I've so enjoyed.
There's been a retrospective of his various travel 
brilliance,
and it's absolutely the idea of just going somewhere with open 
fresh eyes.
Yes,
and he's such a gentleman isn't he, the way it does it,  in the way he talks to everybody, so gentle and kind.
Yes,
just while I may my just took put insert a cheeky little plug here.
He's very he's very,
very,
very,
very much on my ladder someday.
Hey,
doesn't know I'm coming for him,
but I'd love to give Michael Palin a good listening to just putting it there.
I'll Listen,
Thanks for coming.
Yes.
So I'm moving on back to you,
but to me,
forget Michael.
Um,
it's quite funny saying Michael isn't it, anyway
sir Michael
Oh Goodness,
the other people who inspired me are my colleagues because 
again,
they just brilliant, every day I talk to them,
and every day I learn something,
learn something from them .
The patience and tolerance of me on the day to day basis is 
admirable because I know that I could be extremely annoying and.
Picky.
and they tolerate me every day and inspire me 
every day.
So I'm very happy to be working with a team that I have. And my very,
very,
very best guess Julian,
as to why they tolerate you is because you care so profoundly and so deeply for your common purpose,
we all do.
Yeah,
and that's why we were well together.
And that's why we bounce off each other.
And that's why they tell me I'm wrong.
And we changed things,
and it's very much a kind of flat pyramid,
if you know what I mean.
I just leadership structure.
We're all .
There are three of us in the ops team and we discuss nearly everything,
and we agree nearly everything.
It's very rare that I ever put my foot down and say,
No,
I want to do this beautiful And there is this a lovely notion within healthy 
teams off healthy conflict which which resonates 
with,
You know,
I know that there's lots of research about that sort of thing,
but there's a There's a very seminal writer called Len Cioni who talks about 
Imagine a very old scuzzy leather football in the 
sands of the arena of conflict.
And as a good team,
you should be able to kick the crap out of it,
not each other.
For the nation of Healthy Conflict,
which I really loved is a metaphor.
But it sounds like you've got a very healthy,
robust team there with Wait for me.
It's really important that you create the space for everyone to feel 
confident.
This even if they say something silly,
it'll be listened to and the space for people to know that if they 
say something like Junior,
you're being an idiot that there's not gonna be repercussions down the road for that.
Yes,
that's really important because,
you know,
we have a healthy respect for each other.
Beautiful Onda again,
this there is a really lovely,
really strident leadership qualities.
But it's so anchored in humility in your case,
which again I'm really enjoying and who thank you 
for telling that.
Just take it.
We have the same intensity when we're out in Tanzania working with a team out there 
again,
it's,
you know,
we will sit around Arthur style table and have those discussions.
And then they're quite Weir's in the respect that they often say that when people come in,
they don't know who's the boss because everybody is talking.
Everybody is listening,
which I thought was quite nice.
I like that idea,
and I love the facts of an Arthurian Table
 there is a joke.
 I'm a comedian,
so I just have to put this in there.
Do you remember the name of the knight that actually constructed the Arthurian Table?
It was Sir Cumference 
back to you dear.
So they're the three inspirational things that
I was challenged to think about. I'm loving the shaking of your tree,
and now we're gonna go onto to things that never failed to grab your attention.
That was really hard,
because,
um,
I think I've got O.
C.
D.
And everything attracts my attention.
Something goes Pig annual.
What's the ping?
What's that?
You know?
So you're constantly There's so many ways to be stimulated nowadays that it's really difficult 
To choose.
There's a there's a dog character in the film UP.
I think it is.
And this is a visual joke.
So if listening on the podcast,
this is a bit crap.
If you just look at the screen moment,
Julian again Hi oh,
squirrel.
And then you basically... that's me I think 
so.
Any new projects or ideas that come along,
I'm absolutely Yeah,
let's do it.
Let's do a little.
And then tomorrow what was the idea?
You said?
Completely gone.
So what?
You felt what your current squirrel would you say that has grabbed your attention?
My current squirrel is that we're planning to do a virtual trek to Tanzania,
which is basically trying to get 50 people to join us for a 10 week virtual 
trick and the people can choose their own distance that they want to walk.
But collectively,
you had all of them up and we're gonna be walking from tooting to Tanzania.
Um,
I'm trying to work out how to do that will be fun.
I love that.
So,
yes,
we'll do it.
We'll do a sort of captain's log,
supplemental.
I call my supplemental programmes of G and T with me CJ rather than a g lt 
with the C.
D.
C funding there.
But we can talk about that project specifically if you like from tooting to Tanzania Sounds like it needs to 
be a thing. Exactly everybody needs to do it, it is go it's gonna start and in January 
So it's it's kick the kilos type activity which I thought 
was really corny but I quite liked it.
Lovely alliteration tooting to tens of near kick the kilos and the other 
one?
No,
The other thing is it's actually because it's January and everyone's a bit depressed.
It's all very dark and probably lock down" scenarios there,
you know everyone needs to get out of the house.
Yes,
they do.
And so,
having a kind of two mile challenge every single day.
This could be the thing that motivates.
We were just to get out on get some,
air in their head because that's really important.
Lovely.
And I'm assuming there might be sponsorship attached to that.
So there's some caused at the heart,
obviously.
So,
yes,
we're definitely doing sort of captain's log supplemental about that,
if you allow me. That would be fantastic.
And so the things that grabbed my attention,
apart from that,
obviously my friends grabbed my attention.
You know,
if the phone goes,
it's a friend.
You don't ever think of .....  not because 
friends are the most important things friends and family always very important,
but more intellectually things that grabbed my attention are people who want to bring about 
change.
You know,
my whole life,
it seems to be about change and then helping people bring about change and how 
do other people do it?
So when I look in on my bookshelf,
it is all about people who have brought change,
be they dictators who have brought change in a horrible way or peaceful 
people brought things a different way.
It's what,
how well,
how do people do it?
And how should we be doing it?
How should we do it in this country?
Because it's clearly needed
Yes,
and indeed I know that philosophy is also embedded within the Livingstone Tanzania Trust website as well.
Where you talk about change management,
but the word change change,
starting with a contagious desire to change.
What do we write?
That sounds clever.
It's in your website,
and I really liked it.
And boom,
you're all over that.
That's also so it's also interesting.
And I don't know if this is the right thing to tell people publicly,
But one of 
My great great great ancestors of some sort was a member of the gunpowder 
plot.
So he was one of the 12 who,
uh,
got hung quarter on whatever trying to bring about 
change.
Obviously,
we don't condone their their methods of bringing about change.
Yeah,
but it was quite interesting that to see the family members who have been trying to bring about change for 
hundreds of years,
So in a little way,
I'm quite proud of that.
Yes,
in a little,
where your DNA is all about change.
I love that.
Yeah.
So fingers crossed.
We don't resort Yes,
and rather the gunpowder plot.
You've got a squirrel plot with good ideas of alliteration.
Tooting to Tanzania , kill, didn't say kick the kilos.
You said,
Didn't you think the kilos?
That's for me.
You really But people can keep whatever they want!!
Lovely.
So anything else than what?
We've done that now.
So now I think we step away.
And it's now one quirky or unusual fact about you,
King Julian that we couldn't possibly know until you tell us 
that was quite challenging.
But I wake myself up sometimes in the middle of the night 
laughing.
Um,
I'm not sure if I've told myself a joke or I've seen something family.
I start laughing,
and then I wake myself up and I kind of like that.
I think I kind of like that,
too,
and this is inappropriate.
I quite like to be there when you woke up doing it,
but I'm not going to be weird or anything.
It's just a very that's a very quirky,
lovely thing appeals to my sense of humour.
When was the last time that you woke up doing that?
Not for a couple of years,
actually.
So you must report back and tell us the next time it happened because you probably are due another wake up 
call you another way.
You can come back to the hashtag blow virus group that I've been running on Facebook.
There's quite a few laws there,
but you can't read them in your sleep.
Obviously No,
no.
But I do remember once telling myself a joke in the car and then 
bursting out laughing because I'd never heard it before.
Can you read?
What?
That drink,
wass.
No,
but it is more of a long winded story that I want to tell.
I think it was more programmes to be made.
So yes,
more programmes.
Yeah,
lovely.
Wonderful.
And I'm intrigued by the construct of jokes.
Actually which is why I said,
Do you know that joke of the moment?
Something that never fails to get my attention is when someone says can tell your jokes.
I'm always interested to know whether it's going to be something.
new or different.
So we've shaken your tree,
you lovely man!
And now we're still in the clearing,
going milking the metaphor for all we can.
And now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold.
Now when you are at purpose and inflow and by the 
way,
your alchemy and gold is implicit in what you've been giving so far.
But what would you say you are all about when you're at purpose and inflow?
What's the alchemy and gold that you know you like to bring?
I don't really understand the question.
I will reframe it.
So when you're in your happy place doing what you love to do the most that's 
what I'm defining as being alchemy and gold.
So what is it you most enjoy bringing to the world?
Um,
laughter and knowledge.
So I remember, I often do talks at schools to  students.
Sometimes they could be five years old sometime to A level.
students and I just love being in front of them all and 
just telling them stories about Tanzania and the 
work we do and seeing people's faces going .
Oh,
OK,
now I get that.  I did one with some 
Five year olds and the questions that came back afterwards seemed to 
just focus on the shoes that the girls in the photos were wearing 
Did they have Clarkes?
And were they like shoes with flowers on and the next 10 minutes just focused on would
they like shoes with this on or would they like shoes ,
with that's on.
They just.... They were so sad that the people didn't have shoes so that to
them was the most important thing and.
Can I give my pocket money so that people can buy shoes?
And it kind of just melts your heart that age?
People want to support people.
to have a better life. And so poignant that that the 
logo is about the foot print.
Your own first encounter with the need to do what you're doing with the idea of feet 
and the rather darker story of rats having eaten feet.
Now you're in a school sharing laughter and knowledge,
and they're they're just lovely and fixating on the feet.
So there's something really iconic about the footprint of you and that Livingstone Tanzania Trust
Yeah, I hadn't really put that together. It's my job to make.
Connections. "we're here a week",
so I love that and also just the sheer joy,
and it's humanity that binds us all,
which is something I'm really struck within talking to you.
So this is really,
really enjoyable and stimulating for me too.
So thank you.
It's a real real pleasure and a gift that you're bringing,
which,
by the way,
your gift is what alchemy and gold is in.
How I I'm framing in this construct.
So I love that.
So just to recap for you,
it's laughter and knowledge,
which,
you know,
that's one of the best answers to this question your episode 28 of my podcast.
And I have to say,
that's one of my very,
very favourite answers to that.
Okay,
so we've shaken your tree.
We've talked about alchemy and gold.
And now,
finally,
I'm going to award you with a cake.
Mr Julian Page
You're gonna be invited.
Yum yum,
Yum,
Yum
As you're a caterer and a chef,
you could have made it yourself.
Do you prefer to make your own cakes with pro being given cakes given? Given cakes please....
Please address later.
Lovely.
And any particular flavour,
dear that you like?
No.
Although,
except fruitcakes.
Yeah.
Don't Dundee fruitcake.
I'm not dissing anyway,
so I don't to tangent myself.
So the metaphor is that you're not gonna put a cherry on the cake is my final invitation to you,
which is again open to interpretation,
is a metaphor.
The cherry on the cake could be the best piece of advice you've ever been given.
It could be a favourite,
inspirational quote.
It could be something that someone said to you once that you've never for gotten.
Or it could be advice that you may give in counselling a younger version of 
yourself.
It's an opportunity for you to impart a bit of wisdom as a legacy to this conversation.
So how would you like to interpret the cake and the cherry?
Um,
I would like to interpret the cake and cherry.
There's two separate things.
So my first piece of advice that I just think it's brilliant 
is that that beautiful phrase "Be the change you want to see in the world".
So that's something that you know,
you're I strive for every day and I fail every day.
But keep struggling....... you just so you 
frozen.
You just froze momentarily is a piece of advice.
Sorry,
you just froze momentarily just at the very end of that.
And so it would be the change you want to see?
Yes.
And is that a Gandhi quote.
It is a Gandhi quite yet,
and it's really difficult to achieve.
You know,
we all want to be perfect recyclers .
We will want to be perfect on non-Amazon buyers.
All of that sort of stuff,
but actually is really difficult.
Um,
but we've got to put the effort in,
and every day I think,
yes,
I must try and try and try.
So that keeps me going.
That's that's my word of advice to people is trying to be that.
But the advice to my younger self will most definitely be.
Don't drink that two litre bottle of cider.
Haha!! Just one dark episode where that was just a big mistake.
There were several,
but hopefully that advice would carry on.
And you still like cider to this day?
Or is it put you off it? I can't stand it..... ?
Yeah,
that and martini. I can't do it anymore.
I'm sorry for a long while.
I couldn't do Gin because the first time I ever got off me chonk at Hadley Castle near Southend was 
drinking.
Need gin for reasons I still don't understand.
So not good I...,
you know,
Luckily,
I never went down that slippery slope again.
It's just that presson of youth of all I could if I wanted to just exploration,
which easily wrapped around you flagon of cider.
So yes,
beautifully and deftly delivered.
I'm gonna ask you a very specific question about the charity in a moment.
But anything else you want to say about anything we've talked about to this point 
Ni, it's been really interesting having to think about these things because I never really 
do.
So Thank you for giving me that opportunity.
And if we want to find out more about Livingstone Tanzania Trust or about you,
Julian Page on the Inter Web where can we go?
We can go.
To www.livingstonetanzaniatrust.com 
That's that,  we are also on Facebook.
Twitter Instagram, Linkedin.
I think we've got nearly everything covered.
Beautiful, I dont know what half of them do,
but we've got them covered.
Well,
you're pulling strings for other people to worry about that shit because you can't be good at everything,
obviously,
But you're good at many,
many things we can see so we don't live in a perfect world as we've been exploring 
and realising an appreciating.
But if you had one sort of wish for the 
charity in this current period in history.
Uh,
what would it be? To survive?
The charities,  all.
The small charities,
especially the small international charities,
are really struggling.
I think they're statistics that at least half of them will close within the next 18 months 
because all of the funders are focusing on UK covid
or have stopped donating because there's no dividends coming into their pots so that they can't give any money 
out.
So for small charities like us,
are absolutely just struggling to get through,
we WILL get through.
I know we will,
but,
you know,
it doesn't stop us praying because it's hard for everybody at the moment.
I know it's hard for everybody everywhere,
but for small charities that are doing so much good work across the globe,
it would be devastating for them to stop,
because the impact actually is huge.
So,
yeah,
I would want all small charities to survive this terrible time.
So thank you so much for gifting us with your presence here 
on the good listening to podcasts.
You've been listening to Julian Page,
MD and trustee of the Livingstone Tanzanian Trust.
Thank you very much indeed.
Good night.
Thank you.