Legacy Life Reflections with Sue Garrett: A Nurse for Life, a Fierce Love for Family and a Purveyor of Fine Cakes!

A life can look ordinary from the outside, right up until you hear the moments that quietly changed everything. I’m joined by Sue Garrett, a retired nurse, mother, grandmother, baker, music lover, and devoted wife, for a Legacy Life Reflections conversation that moves between laughter and real, lived tenderness. We start where Sue feels most clear headed: her garden near Leeds Castle, a personal “clearing” filled with books, soundtracks, and the kind of busyness that soothes rather than drains.

Sue traces how sailing arrived as an unexpected rescue after a painful divorce, sparked by driving her son to a YMCA club and being asked to update their medical certification. From there we widen into the people and patterns that shape a life: strict, loving parents; a powerful bond with her brother; and the long aftershocks of betrayal when the past remains close by at family events. Along the way, we pick up vivid details that make Sue’s story feel tangible: the “gaggle” of grandchildren, international babysitting, the joy of planning celebration cakes, and even a tightly run local gin club.

At the heart of our chat is rare dementia caregiving. Sue speaks with unvarnished honesty about Andy’s frontotemporal dementia, what it means to love someone when so much changes, and how she keeps showing up with music, coffee, chocolate, and presence. We end with the values Sue wants to leave behind and her determination to support rare dementia research so other families do not have to walk the same path in the dark. If Sue’s story resonates, please subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'.  If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

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Transcript

Welcome To Legacy Life Reflections

Chris Grimes 0:07

Welcome to another episode of The Good Listening to Show. Your life and times with me, Chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing, where all good questions come to get asked, and all good stories come to be told. And where all my guests have two things in common. They're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors. A clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 54321, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, and a cake. So it's all to play for. So yes, welcome to the Good Listening2 Show, your life and times with me, Chris Grimes. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin. It is my immense joy and privilege to be uh curating. I've been given the the great task of curating Sue Garrett through a very special episode of the Good Listening To show Stories of Distinction and Genius. This is a Legacy Life Reflections episode where we're going to be celebrating, and I promise you, with absolutely no morbid intention, your wonderful life path and trajectory. Your wonderful son Phil, who happens to be my favourite client, hurrah, has gifted this unto you. And I'm really happy that we're here doing this for you. This is the show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers, and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious, happy place of my guests choosing. And I'm going to curate you through some really lovely tried and tested storytelling gateposts as we unpack the story of the fact that Sue Garrett, I know this will be for you to tell me, but you're a proud nurse of old. You sent me a lovely, lovely photograph of you in full nurse's regalia. I know you're a proud grandmother, and you've got quite a big gaggle, the collective noun for a bunch of grandchildren, I'm calling a gaggle. It's it's about to expand to nine, including grandchildren you're inheriting through other relationships that are going on in your family. But in any case, it's time to hear from you, Sue. So, Sue Garrett, welcome, welcome, welcome to the show. Thank you. Wonderful. Is it um rude to ask? I think I know how old you are, but would you like to tell us how old you are, Sue Garrett?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

I have just had my 76th birthday.

Chris Grimes 2:32

And uh a very happy birthday. When exactly was your birthday? April the 12th. Wonderful. And just to put a flag in the sand of where we are today, I'm just trying to check the date for us both. I believe it is the 4th of June 2026. Welcome to the show. So um, how's morale? What's your story of the day, Sue Garrett? Would you like to say?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

The story of the day.

Chris Grimes 2:54

Yes, so what's going on? I know you've just mentioned that you may be doing Phil's lawn.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Oh, right, yes. Uh today Phil is coming for lunch. Ah, lovely. So he is dropping Brooke at school this afternoon, and he's coming round for lunch.

Chris Grimes 3:15

Wonderful. So hot off the press of the are doing this together, he'll be there to sort of find out how it went. And then you said he's into gadgets and he's had while he's been away sailing, there's been a gadget that has sort of failed in its work. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah, the wheels fell off.

Chris Grimes 3:30

That's a great metaphor. Phil was away and the wheels fell off. That proves how important he is as a as a global CEO, which I know.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yes.

Chris Grimes 3:40

And and Phil happens to be, as I said, my favourite client of old, which is lovely. And he's gifted this to you, so I hope that it's this is it's been likened to having a day spa for your brain in an oasis of kindness. So I hope you feel that as we go through as well, Sue.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

I think you've beefed me up a little bit too much. I have done my homework, but it hasn't been marked.

Chris Grimes 4:03

Well, we'll be here to mark it together, but I won't be going through indelibly with any red pens. This is your path and trajectory, and so it's really, really exciting. Geographically, where are you speaking from today?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

I am in my dining room in Langley Heath, which is about five and a half minutes from Leeds Castle.

Chris Grimes 4:26

Oh, with the moat. I remember Leeds Castle has a glorious moat. Yes. Of old. And is am I right? And it's it's Dickens Close, is where it is. Where we live, of course. Phil rather enigmatically said it's a retirement village in disguise, but do you feel it is or is it?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

No, they call it Bungalow City.

Chris Grimes 4:47

I love that. Bungalow City near Leeds Castle. It sounds, if I may say, it sounds a lot potter than you'd expect a bungalow city to be. So we're not talking about a shanty town here, are we? No.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

When I moved in, it was predominantly elderly, but we now have three children living next door with their parents, and three or four more children further down the road. So children and younger people are moving in because of our lovely gardens. Wonderful. New builds don't have good gardens.

Chris Grimes 5:26

Yes. And I'm assuming the children you're describing are not in their 50s moving in with their old parents because of the economy having dived and everyone's got to move back in with their parents. No, not quite. No, not quite lovely.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Right. No, it's um younger families that are tending to move in. The bungalows have a good footprint, especially the detached ones, because you've got the whole length, and very big roof space where they go up and do more bedrooms.

Chris Grimes 5:57

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

So the scope is huge.

Sailing Finds Sue When Life Breaks

Chris Grimes 6:00

And I know a lot of your really, really happy life was spent in the lake district.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yes.

Chris Grimes 6:05

So uh just just talk us through your your love and admiration of because I know you got into sailing as well, and I'm one would assume that might be because you were living on the banks of Lake Windermere or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

No, it wasn't actually, it was Phil and three of his friends were in scouting, and they had the chance to learn to sail down at Thamesmead, yeah, down near Abbey Wood. And to get there, mum drove them. So I would take my book and sit in the car, watch them sailing. It was run by the YMCA actually, so it was all very low-key. And George who ran it was 82.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Gang with him, and uh one day he knocked on the car door window and said, We need someone to update our medical expertise. They had to have an update on their medicals to be able to run the YMCA. So I had 15 of them and I put them through their paces and got them through their certification.

Chris Grimes 7:18

So he knocked on your window knowing that you were a nurse, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Well, somebody had let rip, yes.

Chris Grimes 7:24

Yes. There were you trying to be private whilst they're all sailing with the book on your lap and then dump dum dum dum dump, and then you you got sucked into the vortex of the YMCA.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Yes. And in payment for doing that, George said, I'll teach you to sail. So much to the boys' embarrassment, I used to wash the boats regularly by capsizing.

unknown 7:52

Ha ha.

Chris Grimes 7:53

I see what you were saying there. I'm gonna wash the boat again, boys. So the Phil is one of your children, obviously. Your other child is Hilary, I know who's a daughter, obviously. Clues in the name that you gave her there. She was what, sorry? Busy clubbing. Yes, I like that. So one's out clubbing, and you're there in the car park of the YMCA, but your destiny was about to be changed by this moment of them needing to upgrade their health and safety provision.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yes. So from there, Phil and I joined Betsley Sailing Club. And at this point, I'd had a very sad divorce, which I'm sure Phil has told you about, which I find hard to leave behind. I've had 30 wonderful years with my second husband.

Chris Grimes 8:44

Who's Andy? I know, yes. And I know that there's a very poignant backstory to Andy as well. And and by by all means, go where you like, how you like, wherever you like, as deep as you like into the structure as we get onto it. But um but please do share whatever you'd like to share. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

The sailing was my actual saviour at the time. I absolutely loved it, and I hadn't realized that my great-grandfather was a naval officer in the submarines, and another uncle had been an ad for Isle of White sailing, so it had come to the foreground.

Chris Grimes 9:27

So what goes around comes around, and also I like the fact that the submariner in you, DNA-wise, is why you kept washing the boats by capsizing them, I'm assuming. So it's a bit like you could have been in the Lord Admiralty by the sound of it.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Well, I think I'd be scrubbing the submarines rather than spaling them. Yeah.

Chris Grimes 9:51

Yes, presumably dive, dive, dive. Oh, where's Sue? She's still trying to scrub the foredeck or whatever. My nautical knowledge may expire quite soon. Also, you you've got quite a dynamic for because I know one of your grandchildren is a bit like a Luke Skywalker. He's called Luke, but he's a pilot. You've got quite a lot of modes of transport involved in your story as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yes, I followed him avantly because he had medical ear problems and we never thought he'd be able to fly. At 16, he got his first pilot, um, light aircraft pilot at Rochester. Andy and I were in the Lake District. We came down to see him get his final certificate. So that was a wonderful thing, really good. And then, of course, it took him another 10 years to become a fully qualified pilot.

Chris Grimes 10:45

Was the ear issue always possibly set to prohibit the career? Yes.

unknown 10:50

Yes.

Chris Grimes 10:51

Presumably, you're not revealing his ear problems for the first time. Everybody knows, don't they? Yes. We didn't want to out him as a pilot that's about to get fired because he can't hear properly. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Well, I think it was um he was getting the air disorientation and ear infections, which of course you can't fly a plane if you've got those sort of problems.

Chris Grimes 11:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

And likewise, my brother wanted to be a pilot, but his eyesight was poor. So he would have become a pilot, yeah. But he was in the air cadets at school, and he was told very early on that that wouldn't happen.

Chris Grimes 11:36

And of course, as with life, when challenges hit us, we pivot and we evolve and we change. And obviously, you have done a lot of that too, which we're gonna get on the open road of. With your permission, may I get you on the open road of a clearing? There's gonna be a tree, there's gonna be a lovely, juicy storytelling exercise called 54321. There's gonna be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels. Oh, squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton, and a cake. So it's all to play for. And we've already said you're a proud nurse. I'm pretty sure, you know, most nurses I know have some extraordinary stories to tell. So I hope you'll get on the road of nursing as a sort of storyscape of itself.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

No, it'll all be in the book.

Chris Grimes 12:19

Ah, great. So we're gonna draw the book out of you as well. Marvelous. As I say, go where you like, how you like in the structure. So the first question: this format all takes place energetically in what I like to call a clearing or serious, happy place of your choosing. We've inferred there might be clearings to do with where you've been on your path of life, but now I'm gonna ask you the open question: where does Sue Garrett go to get clutter-free, inspirational, and able to think? And that is your clearing. So, where would you like to base us for the rest of the episode, Sue?

The Garden Clearing And A Life In Music

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Right. Um, at the moment, because everything has changed, it would be my garden where I will get lost unless I've got the phone pinging, or I could go out there and just spend the day finding things to do or not to do, or just sitting there with a book, or with music. So that gives you a clue that uh reading, music, and I love all genders of music. So I've put down here that um the music I like is probably pop music first, country music is very, very high up there. I've never really had anybody to share jazz with me, but I'm trying to get Phil involved. We've been to Ronnie Scott's once. I've been three times with a friend uh who was just a friend who took me on the night bus, and that opened up a new era for me. Classical music because I play the piano. The children very kindly have bought me a piano. It's small, but it's a full key size, and yeah, it's brilliant.

Chris Grimes 14:15

And you learnt as a as as a a girl, as how old were you when you first I was seven. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

I was seven, and at 13 I won a cup and got to grade four and then stopped because I was well involved at school by that point in musicals and things at school. So, yes, music is and when we come on to people who inspire me, you will hear about my brother.

Chris Grimes 14:48

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

So you can share a birthday with him.

Chris Grimes 14:52

We will get on to that, but I'm just wanting to know exactly where we're anchoring. So it's the garden with lots and lots of happy escapism attraction to it. So there's either book or there's music or the gardening in and of itself.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yes.

Chris Grimes 15:04

And I'll ask you a little bit later on what your favorite piece of music might be, or you can have a couple of pieces, and then my podcast editor or the show editor, because we are yet to decide whether this is a public or private podcast or show, is brilliant at texturing in music. So I'll ask you. And when you're not in your garden, this is of now is your current favourite space. In your life, is there another any other clearings or serious happy places that you will remember?

SPEAKER_01 15:30

I've got lots of places that I would go to. So last year I did three 21 birthday cakes. This year I've got Andy's 80th to do.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

I'm already planning a cricket bat because that was his thing. So I'm already planning how to cook that. Photography, I don't know if you can see behind me, I have a lot of framed pictures and I make handy books, memory books, I've done memory books for the children. I like water in water in any way, sailing, swimming, anything like that, travel, I love travel. So I don't know really sports. Andy's got me into watching cricket, football, rugby, tennis, anything with ball.

Chris Grimes 16:39

So a very

Loving Andy Through Rare Dementia

Chris Grimes 16:40

active mind and a very active enjoyment of activity is what the through line is that I'm hearing. And may I ask, is Andy still able to appreciate cricket or or has he gone too far now?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Andy can't appreciate anything except chocolate and coffee. But he does, he cut he's got um frontotemporal parietal dementia, and he was diagnosed at the age of 70, so I would have been 66. And I had him at home here for seven years and then couldn't manage. Very odd words now and again. He's got um uh spinal problems, so his head is permanently bent, and he's in a care home, which care homes in this country are very basic. So I go down every other day and I put the cricket on and I put things on. I tell him about Ipswich going up to the premiership, but there is nothing there. But I don't know, maybe.

Chris Grimes 18:10

And your wonderful, very profound realisation that coffee and chocolate are still, how do you know? I mean, may I ask, how do you know that he knows that's what they are?

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Because if I give him chocolate, he will say thank you, or if I say, Is your coffee good? he'll say yes, and there the words he'll just come out with. I don't know whether it is true, but he will eat the chocolate and seem to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Music, of course, he loves, and I've always got music playing for him. Unfortunately, it's dire straits and things.

Chris Grimes 18:50

That's that's wonderful for me because one of my favourite favourite ever tracks is Dio Straits actually, it's Romeo and Juliet.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

But the road to hell. Um Chris Rear, and yeah, all those.

Chris Grimes 19:04

And you don't like those, so that won't be the track that you'll choose.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I like most music. After about 10 minutes of dire straits, I've sort of lost the will to live. Even Sultans of Swing, are you absolutely? Oh no, no, I love there are two or three that I love.

Chris Grimes 19:22

Yes. Yes, I think my uh I'm not trying to convince you of anything, but Mark Knopfler's a real hero of mine.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I mean his his expertise, his guitar playing is perfect, absolutely wonderful. But I need an uplifting music.

Chris Grimes 19:44

Yes. And what's so so lovely and profound is I'm hearing your clearing is this sort of aesthetic, multi-faceted, multi-stimulating, even with chocolate and coffee in there. But it's it's gardening, it's this is unique because I I love the fact everyone answers or interprets their clearing differently, but you've got a very wonderful aesthetic, almost montage in your head as you're clearing, which is funny.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

My clearing is I haven't got one thing, I've got things that grab me on the day or on the feeling, or if I've had a bad time with Andy, I find something that's gonna lift me.

Chris Grimes 20:28

So it's very texture or sense or smell, so it's it's the senses that evoke you for your clearing.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Doing a nice cake or cooking a nice dinner for me,

Cakes, Grandchildren, And Keeping Busy

SPEAKER_01 20:38

yeah.

Chris Grimes 20:38

Yes, and I I love the fact you're going to do a cricket bat for Andy. That sounds absolutely perfect. And I've never heard I've never met anybody who's baked a cricket bat. Go you. So what will will it be a coffee and cake, sorry, a coffee flavoured cake, presumably?

SPEAKER_01 20:51

It will be a chocolate cake with white icing for the covering the bat, and then I've got to make a ball. So apparently, if you roll rice crispies with a sugary mixture and then cover it with red icing, and then I've got to paint the white stitching all the way around it.

Chris Grimes 21:14

So I've I've got a yeah, I've got I can already tell what a labour of love it will be, Sue. So that's wonderful. And you're as you bake all of the cakes, I'm sure they got are they now to order the shape of choice?

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Yes, I mean James is going to be 18. Yeah. And he is there's James and Robin. They are Hilary's children.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

So James is going to be 18, and the last two cakes for 16 and 17 have been made of sweets. His favourite sweets, he doesn't like cake.

unknown 21:50

Yes.

Chris Grimes 21:51

So we're talking Maltesers or something like that, or what type of Harry Bows. Yes, Harry Bows. Yes. The the bane of it's it's a quick way to get. Your children off their proverbials with e-numbers, but but they're yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And there is Mamos, Mamos.

Chris Grimes 22:07

Mamos, mamos, mamos, mamos. You say mamos, potatoes, mm ta ta ta.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Yes. And I have to go and find these things because you don't like the yellow ones, or I don't like well.

Chris Grimes 22:19

It sounds like a sort of famous band with a rider, you know, take all the blue MMs out. I think that was a famous one with the Rolling Stones, wasn't it, back in the day? And I know you have nine in total. This isn't a test, but just talk us through the gaggle of your grandchildren. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I'll start with Phil, because it's Luke, who's going to be 30 next year. Yeah. Then Phoebe, who's at university doing biomedical science stuff. Then there's Brooke that they adopted. Um, so he's eight, hoping to be nine.

Chris Grimes 22:54

I love that. I'm I want to be nine soon. How lovely.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

He had a Harry Potter cake and all sorts. He's my hopefully keeping me young. Because I thought after all the others, you know, you get rid of the prams, you get rid of the and then along came Brook.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

Love that.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

So that's Phil's love. And then I will be adopting Florence and Jamie. Wonderful. Natalie. Yeah. And then Hillary has got Robin, who's got a qualified law degree.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Register. And now wants to be a teacher. And then James, who just wants to, he finishes school next week, uh, sixth form, just taking his A levels. He wants to do something that earns him lots of money for little time.

Chris Grimes 23:55

I like him. He's a man after my own heart. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

And then I've got two girls in Houston, Texas, from Andy's daughter, Michelle, who's coming over for his 80th birthday. So Katrina is in Edinburgh University.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Doing the same as Phoebe.

SPEAKER_04 24:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

She thought she didn't want to do blood and gunge, but she now wants to be a doctor.

Chris Grimes 24:26

I've just seen the most extraordinary program on Max HBO called The Pit, which is just amazing about an ER. So that's a lovely box set, which is really it's like an ER off spin because the same act called Noah Wiley is who was an ER is in it. Also, um, I I can't resist saying if you ever have problems with your grandchildren in Houston, we could say Houston, we have a problem. Thank you very much. That's a space joke for you.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Yes. Well, we've we've Andy and I have followed them around the world because Doogie, the dad, is in oil and they started off in Aberdeen, uh Copenhagen, KL, New York, and now Houston. So we have babysat, that's my claim to fame.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

We babysat in Copenhagen, Katrina of 11 months for 12 days while they went to KL to find their next abode.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

We've babysat in New York, yeah, all over the place.

Chris Grimes 25:39

You're an international global babysitter. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yes, yeah.

Chris Grimes 25:43

And the many other things that you bring to the equation as well. Lovely. So we've got a delicious um clearing full of children and grandchildren and a big squad. When I obviously know Phil really well, and because he's called McGilvray, there was a comedy a couple of weeks where I just assumed you were McGarrett, but of course you're not. So Phil, but no, it's take off the MC. So now I'm really clear that it's Sue Garrett. Where's your MC gone? Because I was confused about how he can be a McGilvray and you can be a Garrett.

Divorce, Control, And Lasting Hurt

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Well, my maiden name is Fuller, as in Fuller's Earth, and there's a backstory to that.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Um, and then I got married to Barry McGilvray.

SPEAKER_04 26:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

And had Phil and Hilary.

SPEAKER_04 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

And 21 years later, he decided to go and live with another lady. And I didn't know he'd been seeing her for a long time. So it was quite a miserable time. I was left with two children, one dog, beautiful dog, five-bedroom house, working five days a week at the GP surgery, doing lots of study, and suddenly he decided he didn't want to live with us anymore. So it was quite a sad time. I unfortunately went into a bit of a big hole. And fortunately as well, I was working with four doctors who supported me through it. I used to go into work and say, Don't ask me, the kids are fine, and I'm here.

Chris Grimes 27:30

I'm here. There are many times in our life when that is of itself enough, I would say. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Now, in that situation, when people ask, How's Andy? Well, you know, I'd love to say he's up and about and he's talking, and but he's not. So, yeah, he's okay.

Chris Grimes 27:50

And in terms of what's pulled you and drawn you towards your future, your love of Andy is really, really, really obvious, and I commend you for that.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

It's really he was my saviour.

Chris Grimes 28:02

Yeah. Wonderful. So in your clearing now, I'm going to arrive with a tree. And this is a bit deliberately existential, a bit waiting for God Oesque, a bit Samuel Beckett-y. And I'm going to arrive with a tree to shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out. I've got a couple of comedy props. How'd you like these apples? And this is where you've been kind enough, uh, Sue Garrett, to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention. None of this is a memory test, I'll reincorporate in a second. And that's where the squirrels are going to come in, which is borrowed from the film. Oh, some notes, I'll show them up to the camera. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. So uh not a memory test, but over to you now to shake the canopy of your tree as you see fit. So, first of all, four things that you would say have shaped you, Sue.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

I was born to loving parents who were, I would say, I've written here, this is my notes. They were strict, they were fairly old-fashioned in their thinking. So we were obedient and we were brought up not to question, which Brooke is not, he questions everything. And my saying to him is it's not a why, it's a do.

Chris Grimes 29:24

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

But my parents, you never said why, it was always you did it. So that didn't help me in my divorce because I wasn't strong. I was very strong as a nurse. I was taught as a nurse you took your emotion home, or you spoke to a professional that you were not coping, but you never showed it working.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

But at home, I wasn't allowed to show any emotion, which I found quite later on quite sad because all my emotion came out all the time. Um, so I was born in Plumstead, we moved to Barnhurst when at a very tricky time in my schooling. I had, I was only nine, and we moved house quite a long way from Plumstead to Barnhurst, Betsy Heath. And my brother went off to boarding school. He won a scholarship. The London borough where we work, we lived, gave scholarships to six pupils who got 11 plus at a high level. So he went to Christ Hospital, Blue Coat School, down in Horsham, which is quite a long way. So we moved house, I lost my brother, except for the holidays. And then my mum and dad took in a foster child, quite illegally, now it would be, but he was going to go into a home, and mum heard about it, and she said, No, come and live with us. He was my age, yeah. He went to my school and he was very naughty. So he was a total embarrassment for someone who was trying to get a foot in a new school with this kid that I had to go and collect from the headmistress almost every day to go walk him home. So I had quite a bumpy two or three years. He then went, and mum and dad were very fair. They I had music lessons, they encouraged dancing, swimming. I think because they felt a bit guilty about my brother, um, who had this new life and all the rest of it. But I felt quite submissive and controlled.

Chris Grimes 32:10

And do you have a relationship to this day with the ferrell brother that you inherited?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

No, he went to Australia on the Dr. Bernardo's thing, which has all been awful. I tried to find him actually. Was that the £10 ticket? Yes. Yes. That was the £10 POMS that the family could go.

SPEAKER_04 32:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

But Dr. Bernardo's took orphaned or children that were in orphanages.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

They were going to have a wonderful life in Australia, but they were put to work on farms. Yes. They had a terrible time. So I've I've had done a lot of research and I can't find him.

Chris Grimes 32:53

But um is is your memory still that he was um it may I ask, that he was an embarrassment of your age, or or are you now thinking, gosh, I hope I can find him so you can make amends?

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Yes, he'd had a terrible time. But at 10, he was an embarrassment. Of course, that's totally understandable. But at 76, or when I started to try and find him, I was about 50, and I wanted to find him before mum and dad died, and try and say to them, I found him, and you know, he's okay. But I couldn't I couldn't. So I'm still on that quest. I haven't given up.

Chris Grimes 33:34

Your sort of profound love as a matriarch is still really clear. Uh, and I I love the fact that you're, you know, I wish you all all success in finding him. Uh if he's still with us, we don't know. Yes, no. May I ask if you have a good relationship with your brother?

SPEAKER_01 33:50

I have an absolutely superb relationship with my brother. We had a rocky patch growing up, he got me into Top of the Pops. We used to record Luxembourg on a Sunday night when he was home for the holidays, and he had a reel-to-reel tape recorder, and you weren't allowed to talk, sniff, cough while he was had to be perfect. Um, he is a perfectionist, he was a mineral engineer, whatever they are.

Chris Grimes 34:27

And is that the favourite piece of music from that era emerging? So I can ask you about that.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Well, sort of. It was my 21st, and they Alison and my brother were getting married, and my 21st was two days later. And on my 21st, they gave me Simon and Garf uncle bridge over troubled water. So, yes, tell us a bit more about that if you want to. Well, I was um third-year student nurse coming up for finals, and I'd ditched my then boyfriend Barry because I knew he was playing away. And he went off on holiday to stay with some mutual friends, and he came back and asked me to marry him. And what a fool.

Chris Grimes 35:24

So sorry to hear that, but Barry played out the pattern that then repeated later on that he was disloyal and a betrayer. Yes, gosh.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

But he was the love of my life at that time. Of course. Historically, he was my first love. We were in a youth club together, Alison was in the youth club, she was my brownie guide leader, we were all a family. I'm with you, and it was very um easy to slip back into that family.

Chris Grimes 35:57

Yeah, I'm with you. Yes. The devil

Childhood Roots That Still Shape Her

Chris Grimes 36:00

you know, quite literally.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Absolutely, yes.

Chris Grimes 36:03

Yeah, and I promise I'm not gonna allow us to go to any vortex there, but is he still out there?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Unfortunately, when Andy and I moved back from the Lake District, he moved from Meppham and he lives now 15 minutes away from here. My big problem with that is I can't clear my head of the hurt of over 30 years ago, and Hillary and Philip can't get it. They want me to wipe the slate, embrace him, be everywhere he is, and I can't do it. All the while Andy's alive, I feel I'm betraying him. And it is it's all silly, I know.

Chris Grimes 36:53

No, no, no, it's not silly, it is one's path. And you know, the timeline that underpins how we overcome adversity is idiosyncratically individual for everybody. So I again I I totally understand that's a cross to bear.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I mean, he is uh he wants to be at everything, and I had a bit of a breakdown over it because he was at Mother's Day, my birthday, their birthday, his birthday. He was there and he takes over just like he did all those years ago.

Chris Grimes 37:30

Oh, so to this day you still have to be in the same geography as him?

unknown 37:34

Yes.

Chris Grimes 37:34

As as in the same events, same parties, he's there. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

And what I've done this weekend, because I don't want to I don't want to upset the children because it's their father, and I get that. But he wasn't at Phil's first wedding. He didn't want to go because he didn't think Phil should marry his first wife because Luke was on the way, and he thought it was going to ruin Phil's life. Whereas I said to him, we need to support our son. You know, you you can't choose what they do, you can advise, but you can't change it. But anyway, now he's sort of saying, you know, why Natalie's mum doesn't want to go to her wedding. And I feel like saying, Well, it happens, doesn't it? Yeah, he's very dogmatic. He's you know, if he's right, he's right, and I find that quite hard to deal with. So Sunday he's got a barbecue, and I've been invited, but so as not to upset the children, I'm actually going to a friend. I'm gonna have a friend here who it's her 75th birthday, and I've made out that this has been on my calendar for a long time. Yes, so I can honestly say I've got something else to go to.

Chris Grimes 39:03

And just navigating one's own path trajectory with your own compass pointing true north with good grace is the best you can do, I would say. I think so. I think so. I'm not here to advise you on that, but I uh that's what I would hear, and I I perceive you as being incredibly graceful and doing your best.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. I mean, I had a card from Phil who's lovely, I love him to bits, but he on the card was a sailing boat, and underneath it said, You can't change the direction of the wind, but you can alter the direction of your sails. Now, at first I thought, oh great, you know, he's having a dig, but I think I get it. I think I get it. So I'm gonna alter the sails according to my wind.

Chris Grimes 39:58

What a great bit of advice, if I may say. From what I know, forgive me, of Phil, he's not having a dig, he's trying to help be curative, I think.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Yeah, I think so.

Chris Grimes 40:09

Yes, yes. And in the time that I've worked with Phil, we both, if he hears this moment, we both love a nautical analogy together.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, oh yes. And I I would go sailing with him anytime. You know, I absolutely loved our time together sailing. We I think we became very close with his dad out of the picture for a while, but uh throwing money at the kids when he thought it was appropriate. So, yeah, there was lots going on there. I mean, I actually had to take Barry to court to get money to run the house and look after the children. Nurses don't get paid very much, and he wasn't paying the mortgage, so we were due to lose the house and things like that, going to the high court on my own. Yes, it was really tough, really tough.

Chris Grimes 41:05

A reminder that we're all just winging it and we're all doing our best, and to do it, keep your compass pointing to the north with good grace is the best you can do.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

That's a good one. Yes, I like that.

Chris Grimes 41:15

So we're still in the uh shaking of your tree in terms of shapages. So, what else would you like to say has shaped you, Sue Garrett?

SPEAKER_01 41:21

My grandmother. I think, although I probably look more like my mother, I've got the stature of my grandmother, and I think I've got the motivation of my grandmother. She was the matriarch of the family. She was a very uh one thing that I have taken from her, which is probably not good, is I find it hard to forgive.

Chris Grimes 41:50

Well, and what was her name, your your grandmother?

SPEAKER_01 41:54

My grandmother was Ethel.

Chris Grimes 41:57

What a great grandmotherly name that is.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

So we had my granddad was Sid.

Chris Grimes 42:04

Sid and Ethel.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

My dad was little Sid. So it in those days you had the eldest child was often named after the dad. So there was a film years ago, an animation of Ethel and Sid, and it was so them. He used to shout, you know, F, F, and she'd say, My name is Ethel.

Chris Grimes 42:34

And I have to say, I hope little Sid was not a little sold in the end.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

No, not not Dad, no, he was brought up a bit like me, you know. You didn't but Big Sid worked down the sewers. Wow. Um, and then he went to the First World War and he worked with the horses, bringing the injured back from the trenches.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

So I've got a lot about him and coming home saying I'd rather be down the sewers than in the trenches. And that puts it all in perspective, I think.

Chris Grimes 43:16

A joke of perspective. You've made me think of Warhorse as well, that very seminal thing.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

We went, Andy and I went to see everything. There was another book that was out that was made into a play of the Germans and the English with the tunnels.

Chris Grimes 43:33

Oh, that was that the football match one, as in all quiet and the westerns? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yes, and there was another one that they made. So we went to see them all, and then we went to see the monument of all the animals that helped in the war.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

And in Green Park. Do you have pets or animals in your life as well? Yes. Um, I've always had a dog. So in the lakes, we had a bearded collie.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

As growing up, we The children we had a rough collie, so it was like Lassie, but he was a tricolor, and then moving down here, Hilary's got a dog, and Phil and Brooke have got a dog. So I've always got a dog here, yeah, or a kid.

Chris Grimes 44:19

So it's a bit of an ongoing menagerie, either grandchildren, sons, daughters, or animals. Love that. So not it's not sounding like a cat family, it's very much a dog family.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

No, I did have a cat years ago, and when I was nursing, one of my friends that I was nursing with lived on a farm in Devon.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

And she said, Oh, my dad's going to drown these cats, kittens, yeah, because we can't have all these cats. So I said, Well, I'll have one. Well, I was in a flat with three other girls, and we were all on shifts, it didn't work. So one day I came home to see mum and dad with this kitten, and I said, Mum, can you take a kitten for me because I can't look after it? And they had Chiswick because that's where I nursed, that's how I named him. He was called Chiswick, and he lived with mum and dad for 15 years.

Chris Grimes 45:13

And Chiswick sounds like quite a posh cat because Chiswick's quite an established area of London.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

He was a farm cat, but he was a fluffy farm cat.

Chris Grimes 45:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

So he was a beautiful cat. So um, yes, they yeah.

Chris Grimes 45:27

This is lovely, lovely, rich storytelling, Sue. Thank you so much. Uh and now we could be on to a third or a fourth shapage.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

I mean, the other thing that inspired me obviously was my brother. He uh, you know, we played table tennis together when he um I love table tennis. And on the old dining room table we had a a net.

SPEAKER_04 45:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

You know, it had the mark where you put the net, screwed it in, and my mum was we played um.

Chris Grimes 45:59

Subutio, do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 46:00

No, yes, where you click the buttio. Yeah, we all had calluses where we clicked it very competitive. Yeah, so uh yeah, I had good fun with my brother and later on I nursed mum here at home. We came down from the Lake District. I had gotten yeah.

Chris Grimes 46:27

Had your dad gone before? Sorry to ask you. No, dad was still around.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

He had he was 92 at this stage. Yeah, mum was coming up 90. We managed to give her a big birthday policy, um, even though she'd had a little stroke two days before. Long story short, I brought her down from Stafford because when we were in the lake district, we moved them from Bexley Heath to near my brother because the lake district we couldn't find suitable bungalow that wasn't on a hill.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

So we got them a flat bungalow near my brother, and it was only an hour from the lake, so we used to grab them quite a lot. Anyway, mum became poorly, she didn't want to stay in Stafford, so I brought her down here, nursed her with pancreatic cancer. I think it was about 14 weeks, had her here, but I also had dad who had Alzheimer's, and eventually I couldn't, we couldn't cope with a pair of them. So my brother was in Australia visiting his son who lives out there. I had to make a decision. So I put dad in a home around the corner, just temporarily, lovely little home, and he thought he was on holiday, he was fine. Um, mum died here. My brother came back from Australia before she died. He came down and saw her, but he didn't like the fact that I'd taken over because he's pedantic, he's controlling, uh, a bit like my parents were really. He really didn't like the fact that I'd taken her and made decisions. Yeah, so for a little while it was a bit fraught, yeah, but we're fine now. Yes.

Chris Grimes 48:26

This is again such lovely, lovely tapestry of life stuff. And your nursing has set you in such good stead, almost like the Hippocratic Oath keeps you going, yes, wanting everyone around you to be nurtured and to survive, which is lovely.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Yes, definitely. I think that's why I find it hard with Andy. I think if he had anything else that I could really help him with, yeah. I'm out of control.

Chris Grimes 48:56

I can't Well, it's you can only control the controllables, as they say, and if it's outside of your control, that that's out of your control.

Squirrels, Curry At Forty, And Openness

Chris Grimes 49:04

We could now be on to two things that never fail to grab your attention, which is borrow from the film Up, where oh, squirrels, where squirrels come in. So I call these your monsters of distraction or sometimes your shiny object syndrome. What in your life, Sue, always makes you go, Oh, squirrels and distract you, whatever else is going on for you?

SPEAKER_01 49:22

I don't really know. I I really don't know what I can tell you because my life is very much Andy is in my head all the time. Are they this? Is he this? Is he okay? Should I go down today? Should I leave it today? Should I go tomorrow? So things that grab me.

Chris Grimes 49:44

I don't know. Of himself, he sounds like if I may, he is a bit of a squirrel because he's all consuming. Every time you think of Andy, you're hyper-vigilant.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Yes.

Chris Grimes 49:53

So that that's a good example of a squirrel, actually. So it'd be quite a nice way to, I suppose, analyze him as he's he's away with the squirrels or away with the fairies now. Sorry, I don't mean that as a joke, I just mean he's away with the squirrels.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

With the kids. Now I've come down from the lakes, I've got a different life, I want to be as helpful as I can. I will change my life to fit in with them. Yeah. If Phil suddenly rings, could I? Nine times out of ten, I will. And it's the same with Hillary, and I've got Michelle coming over to stay from Houston, and I could have had a holiday in Yorkshire, but I've said to them, you know, this is my priority. So I don't really know at the moment what would I'm an avid weather watcher.

Chris Grimes 50:57

That's a good squirrel. I don't know. Yes. So I there can be multifaceted squirrels, and that's a great answer. So there's no right or wrong, and you're doing you're answering this beautifully. Anything else you want to say about squirrels?

SPEAKER_01 51:13

I don't think so. I think I mean I love the red squirrels because they're late district, and you did throw a red squirrel.

Chris Grimes 51:20

A red squirrel, yes, in dish. My my family think I'm an absolute loony. I've got the props. Again, sorry. You get top marks. Thank you. And now, thank you. Uh the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you, Sue Garrett, that we couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

I don't know really. I don't really know that there's anything. I'm a very open book.

Chris Grimes 51:46

If I may, it's a bit of research. I was told you didn't have a curry until you were 40.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

That is right. That is right. How do you know that? Is that Phil?

Chris Grimes 51:57

I'm psychic. No, it's Phil. He told me.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

What else did he tell you?

Chris Grimes 52:02

Well, I've I've been I've been inferring stuff that I've also got in my back pocket. So in terms of example quirky facts, that's quite a good quirky fact, if you want. Uh you don't have to go with that, but uh you haven't had a curry or two.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Why? Do you know why? No. Well, Barry didn't like. I was very controlled by him. I didn't realise until I went with Andy, who was totally the opposite.

SPEAKER_04 52:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Totally the opposite. Didn't like arguing, didn't like, we always discussed. If he wasn't happy, we would sit down and work out away. Whereas Barry would say, That's what we're gonna do. I don't like curry, don't ever cook it, da dee da. So very controlling.

Chris Grimes 52:50

And if I may say, can do you mind if I say this? I think Andy has been better for you, if I may say.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

I would say a hundred and ten percent.

Chris Grimes 53:00

And my dad would keep hold of that, because that's me just reflective listening. And what's meant for you won't pass you by. I know you're there still to this day with the Hippocratic oath of nursing everybody's well-being. That's such a wonderful attribute for it. You you'd be a dream grandmother, as in anyone listening would think, gosh, if only I had a grandmother that was so present, or a mother.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

I don't know. I just want to be helpful and yeah.

Chris Grimes 53:29

The other fact that I'd like to ask you about is Phil mentioned you're in the gin club, but I'm assuming that's not with vodka and tonic attached. I mean gin and tonic attached. This is a gin rummy club or is it a gin club?

SPEAKER_01 53:41

No, it's a perfectly drinking gin club.

Chris Grimes 53:46

I like you even more. So tell us about the gin club.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

I don't you can't see my let me just show you.

Chris Grimes 53:53

Oh, pro under the chair. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

It's on my bookcase. This is my bookcase. Yeah. Down at the bottom. Right. So years ago when we first moved here, I met up with a uh lady two doors down through my next door neighbour.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Jan and George live two doors down at number nine. Now they've made a whole program about number nine.

Chris Grimes 54:20

They have, and that's their house. Inside number nine.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

The thing is, they had never seen the program. So when I said to Jan, oh no, not number nine, she didn't get it.

Chris Grimes 54:34

I've had the creative producer John Ploughman of that show in my show, actually. Really? Inside number nine, yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Oh, I'll have to I'll have to find that.

Chris Grimes 54:44

You call John Ploughman, he's the comedy producer's comedy producer.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Right, yes, of course he is, yes. Yeah, we do do gin club. And does what does that involve?

Chris Grimes 54:53

It sounds really like obvious, but is it we're only allowed three gins. Ah, there are boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

I like we have three gins and tonics. Jan doesn't like gins, so she has vodka and Coca-Cola.

Chris Grimes 55:08

And does it occasionally get a bit wild where you go, go on, have a fourth?

SPEAKER_01 55:13

Not really, because Jan and George are a bit set in their ways. So I will have had my main meal at lunchtime on a Friday. Not today, because Phil's coming, but normally on a Friday, I will have had so after ging club at eight o'clock, five till eight, they go home and have their meal.

Chris Grimes 55:37

Or asleep.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Well, George will be asleep as soon as he's eaten. Meals are more important, yeah. So he'll have his meal and then he'll fall asleep for the rest of the evening.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

So we very rarely go on for a fourth because they do have to walk down to their house and I have to walk back to mine. So sobering up is is the way.

Chris Grimes 56:02

But I love the fact you've got that didn't take you long to grab the gin, did it? That was a wonderful just lean down, oh bottle of gin.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

It's always there.

Chris Grimes 56:10

And I did have I couldn't help noticing some of the gin had gone, Sue, if I may say.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

Don't worry, don't worry. Um, there's always a full bottle next to it.

Chris Grimes 56:23

I love that. By the way, may I share with you a story which is very funny about Arthur Aski and a bottle of sherry? Do you remember who Arthur Asky was?

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Oh, yeah, I know Arthur Asky.

Chris Grimes 56:33

You know his busy busy busy busy. You've reminded me, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

I had him as a patient. Oh! That's something nobody knows about me. And also, oh gosh, who was the guy? Um just like that.

Chris Grimes 56:49

Oh, Tommy Cooper.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Yes. I had Tommy Cooper in the Romasonic Hospital with a suspected heart attack because his brother had had a heart attack. Yeah, and then I think it was something like ten years later, that's how he died.

Chris Grimes 57:07

Yes, absolutely. On stage. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

My brother used to come and visit, banging. We had stainless steel bedpangs in those days, and he'd take them out of the sluice on the way down, and he'd bang them all the way down to the ward. We knew he was coming. In coming, and then he'd be sitting in bed, see his brother coming, and he'd say, Not like that, like that. But it it was clutchy. I also had Arthur English. Ah, yes, wow. Miserable. Oh, okay, yes. He said to me, Now I was probably 18 and a half, my first ward and very strict sister, and she said, I want you to look after Mr. English today. I had no idea who he was. So I said to him, Would you like me to help you go to the bathroom and have a shower or a wash? And he said, Do you know who I am? I said, I'm really sorry, uh, Mr. English. So he said, I am very famous. Anyway, you know.

SPEAKER_04 58:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Anyway, I spoke to Mum that night. We had a coin phone in the nurse's home. Yeah. And I said, Oh mum, help me. Can you find dad? Anyway, I said to Dad, who's Arthur English? Oh my goodness, you've got Arthur English, you know, that no idea.

Chris Grimes 58:46

And I promise you the quick story, I won't take long about Arthur Raski. Apparently, famously would be staying in this particular actor's chop house, and he loved a bottle of sherry in his bedside table, and then he would take a tipple, but he was noticing that his landlady, somebody, was snaffling his sherry. Yes. So as the joke has it, or sorry, as the story has it, he thought, right, busy, busy beef. I'll have some of that. And he was weeing into the top to fill it up each time, thinking, ha ha ha ha. Revenge, revenge, revenge. Anyway, as he was leaving the stay, having done the theatre show for the last couple of weeks, she said, Mr. Asky, before you go, um, I'd just like to say, I do hope you've been enjoying the trifles that I've been show we have been serving you after supper each day. I hope you don't mind, but I've been taking your sherry. And then it was all complete. He'd been drinking his own wee. And therein lies justice, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Absolutely.

Chris Grimes 59:44

That was not at all relevant to our talking about your life story, so I'm very sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

It was, it was. It was funny. Yeah, it was good.

Chris Grimes 59:51

And now we've shaken your tree. Hurrah! So now we stay in the clearing, which is this wonderful sort of multifaceted montage of aesthetic enjoyment,

Purpose, Halcyon Days, And Hard-Won Quotes

Chris Grimes 1:00:00

gardening, music, blah, blah, blah. Uh, we're going to talk about alchemy and gold now. When you're at purpose and in flow in your life, Sue, what are you absolutely happiest doing in terms of your purpose imperative? What do you think you're here as your purpose to achieve in life?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

I think my purpose is to be a good granny now, and I think my purpose is to totally look after Andy and give him back what he gave to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

Um yeah, just just be as kind as I can.

Chris Grimes 1:00:45

And may I ask you what you would define your halcyon days as being, whether it has been or will be. When would you describe your halcyon days?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Can you can you explain halcyum?

Chris Grimes 1:00:59

Halcyon is when you're absolutely at your happiest. So, for example, my own parents' halcyon days was when we lived in Uganda because of that life. And why I I've interviewed my own father, who's no longer with us, but for this format, which got me going actually. And he's a very happy one. And as you know, he's a very energetic mascot. Why I know that those were the perfect days were because the family was still complete, because 10 years later, when we came back from Uganda, my sister was killed in a car accident. So it doesn't have to have any morbid intention, but it's just, and then subsequently, dad and mum's housing days together was Madeira. So so I'm just interested in when a pocket of your life when you knew life was as it should be.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

When Andy and I moved to the Lake District, but I'd already had my nursing days. Whenever I was nursing, and I did hospital nursing, district nursing, practice nursing, nurse practitioner, and then when I retired, I did first responding, and that's when we'll come on to that later, I think. Got the medal from the queen.

Chris Grimes 1:02:10

Ooh, we haven't got there yet. So, and now I'm going to award you with a cake. Hurrah! Now, of all the people to award a cake to, I think you are the queen of cake, if I may say. So, what cake would you like if I was to give you a not sort of comedy dogs toy uh cake? But what type of cake would you most like, Sue Garrett, if I was to make you a cake, which I actually can't do, but I I would like to metaphorically.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

I'm sure you could. It would be a coffee and walnut cake with no cherries.

unknown 1:02:40

Okay.

Chris Grimes 1:02:40

Pardon me for breathing. And I I love the fact that Andy would enjoy that too, actually, because he likes the coffee taste. So coffee and walnut cake, no cherry. So there isn't a metaphor of putting a cherry on the cake, if you don't mind, in order to unpack now. What's a favourite inspirational quote, Sue, that's always given you succor and pulled you towards your future?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

I didn't really have any until I had a very kind person where I worked at Dartford West Health Centre, who was a trained psychologist, come yes, a psychotherapist, probably. Yeah, yeah, psychotherapist. He was lovely, and he said, right from the start, you can sink or swim. You've got two choices. You either swim out of this horrible situation, or I'm afraid you just sink and wallow.

Chris Grimes 1:03:39

What's so profound about that is the binary choice of that. It either contributes energy in or out, sink or swim.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

Yes.

Chris Grimes 1:03:48

And congratulations to because I know that you're a swimmer. I know that. I can tell that you are still here. You have survived life being a wicked mess, you're here. Yeah. Do you remember his name to accredit the um AJ?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

AJ, it was uh a Joby, something or other. I mean, he was from Nigeria, but um he was known as AJ.

Chris Grimes 1:04:16

Sing swim, AJ. Love that. Great quote.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

The other one was grandma, God bless her, used to say, you just keep juggling those balls, dear.

Chris Grimes 1:04:27

That's the same difference repackaged, isn't it? Keep juggling those balls, dear. That was Ethel, wasn't it? Said that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

Ethel. And grandad would jump in and say, just keep your balls in the air.

Chris Grimes 1:04:41

What a partnership. Ethel and Sid. Keep your juggling balls in the air. Yes, I love that. Let's have both of those together as if we're doing Ethel and Sid, so give us both together.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Oh, keep your balls juggling in the air, dear. You know, that would be that would be grandad, but she would say keep juggling. Just keep them up there.

Chris Grimes 1:05:04

It's like strictly come dancing, keep dancing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

It's great. That's right. Andy and I had sliding doors because we met quite by chance. He was approached at work outside work. He worked at Lloyd's Registry and Lloyd's shipping in London. And he was going out for lunch. He'd been on his own for three, four years, and this very nice lady, apparently young, pretty, clipboard, came up to him and said, Excuse me, sir, are you single? And it went from there. He filled out a form. I happened to see in a paper, and I had three friends. One used to kick me into shape when I was down, and another one would give me a hug. And the other one would say, Look what I found in the paper. We didn't have dating agencies.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

But they said, You're 40. Do you want to be on your own for the rest of your life? And I said, No. And they found me a cutting in a paper, which my brother paid for, where you paid to go to London, and they matched you with, well, you had bronze, silver, or gold. And he apparently paid for gold and got me. So I always in his debt, because he probably paid about £500. I only paid two.

Chris Grimes 1:06:41

I reckon he got platinum, so if I may say so. So I was that was such a lovely story. I'm so happy we dwelt there. It wasn't you with the clipboard, it was somebody else that got him to sign in, and then he paid for gold.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

He hardly ever went out for lunch. It was by coincidence. And I didn't get the daily telegraph or whatever it was, and somebody saw this thing saying, professional people apply only. And it was in London, and you went and you were interviewed, and yeah. And I got his telephone number in a very posh letter telling me all about him. He liked painting, he liked this, he liked that. And I thought, oh, that sounds quite good. I was on a weekend with these three girls down in Hythe, and I said, Oh, I've got this letter today. Ring him, ring him. I said, No, we are having a nice weekend. Anyway, Coin Box rang him. He was going away, he was taking his parents away for a week in the Lake District, and I just caught him, and we met the following week on his mum's birthday. So we always had that's another curry story. We always had two anniversaries, one when we met, our first date, and one when we got married. And what was the date you met? 18th of October 1993.

Chris Grimes 1:08:14

The date indelibly scorched in.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

People know that.

Chris Grimes 1:08:17

Not a lot of people know that. That's indelibly scorched. How wonderful. And I'm so happy we heard that story. Remember the adage too, what's meant for you won't pass you by, and how extraordinary that someone meant for you didn't pass you by because they showed you the cutting, which sliding doors changed your life. How wonderful.

Regrets, Repair, And Being Remembered

Chris Grimes 1:08:36

Yeah. With the gift of hindsight, what notes, help, or advice might you proffer to a younger version of Sue Garrett, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

Be very careful about following your dream to the detriment of your children. Just say that again. So be very careful about following your own dream to the detriment of your children. The regret I have is probably moving so far away. I was so desperate to get away from Barry and all his trappings that I thought Phil had met Louisa, they had Luke coming, they were getting married, he was at Plymouth University. I thought he was fine. Hilary and I had a torrid time together. She, the whole world was against her because her dad had left and we didn't get on. She, her dad had given her a car. I couldn't afford to keep her in what she wanted to do and say and be. And um she'd gone off to Spain to work in a bar. She was more or less in her dad's pocket because he'd got her a place at college doing beauty therapy. I wanted her to go and do something with her A-level Spanish, but and to this day she will accuse me of abandoning her. But Andy and I sat down and we said, yeah, we're going to the late district, we're getting away from everything, new life, but I was down helping. We came down to help with their wedding. I brought the cake down, I did we did loads. And as soon as she had Robin, she wasn't coping. We had Robin in the late district more than she had her at home. We had her at six weeks old, we had her at three months old, we had her when she was two, so they could go on a holiday together, and she forgets, it's easy to forget quite. I mean, I was working 12-hour shifts, I was working nights, days, but I would get on the train and come down and help her. But you know, it's it's what it is.

Chris Grimes 1:11:17

And to this day that still plays out, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

Yes, yeah. And her dad stayed local and he's friendly with all her friends, he's now like this with Luke, who he said to me, Why doesn't Phil and Louisa get that baby aborted? You know, and that that how can I get rid of that thinking when now Barry and Luke do loads together, they've because Barry stayed locally and I didn't, you know, he's now got a wonderful relationship with Luke. Yes. And it hurts, it's a hurt. Yes, it's a hurt.

Chris Grimes 1:12:04

And living with pain is part of the path, I know, I appreciate. We don't live in a perfect world, that is the truth of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:11

No, we don't, we don't. I mean, when Phil Phil phoned me up and said, and now he helped me move to the Lake District, we had uh uh all our little bit of furniture from Andy's flat, and he went into negative equity with the flat, so we had no money. I got £30,000 out of a £95,000 house because Hilary said she was gonna live with her dad, which she denies now, so she never did. But so we had that to put down on a mortgage in the lake district, and that was it. When Phil phoned me up to say she, you know, he and Louisa were pregnant, they were gonna get married. I brought Andy down with me. We spent the whole weekend in Plymouth from the Lake District to talk it through with him, and I said, I would support you as much as I could if that is your decision. And his dad was saying, Well, I'm not going to the wedding, he's ruined his life, da did on, they should have an abortion. Well, and I think now, you know, Hillary's saying, I'm the bad guy because I went to the lakes.

Chris Grimes 1:13:30

Or a reminder and a reincorporation of keep your own compass pointing true north and stay stay true to your own north star is the important thing to navigate you through and pull you towards your future. Well, ramping up finally, or Penelope to talk about Shakespeare and how, when all is said and done, you would most like to be remembered, would you say, Sue?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:52

I think just as someone who would always help if she could. And please talk about me when I'm not here, whether it be good or bad. Because we do laugh about my mum, she was um quite outspoken, and dad was funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

And we talk about them, and I think that would be good.

Chris Grimes 1:14:20

I think your legacy is in the bag. This is an absolute privilege and a joy speaking to you, Sue. You don't have to this is just an open question, but um there is a moment if you want to take it up called pass the golden baton. Is there somebody else in your life that you know, whoever it might be, that may really enjoy, like, or benefit being given a damn good listening to in this way? There's an opportunity to pass the golden baton if you'd like to.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:46

I think both my children. Yes. Yes. And anyone else, Chris, that you think would it would help?

Chris Grimes 1:14:57

Sorry, I'm dripping. No, no, not at all. I'll pause while you get a box of tissues.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

Um a very sentimental old nurse.

Chris Grimes 1:15:10

I think you're a lovely sentimental old nurse, just to let you know that. And um, is there anything else, as this has been your moment in the sunshine recording your own legacy life reflections, is there anything else you'd like to say, Sue?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:25

I think just that people need to keep. I'm a very half-full person. I will always try and look at the better side of things, even though I have a job letting go of the bad past. Now I will always try and find the good and the kind.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

That's right.

Chris Grimes 1:15:55

And finally, if I may ask, what's your absolute favourite piece of music if you haven't already mentioned it? It's um Bridge Over Troubled Water, which allows us now to reincorporate deliberately Bridge Over Troubled Water as we play out of this episode. If I may just say it's been an absolute privilege listening to you, and I would encourage you to go public with it because you have stoicism, wisdom, insights that are incredibly powerful to listen to.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:26

I'm not sure about that. I just I'm beat.

Chris Grimes 1:16:32

So um I've been Chris Grimes, but most importantly, this has been Sue Garrett recording your legacy life reflections, and it's been a privilege to listen to you. So I'll I'll leave you to say the last words. Anything else you'd finally like to say before we end the episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

Well, I think my mother and father didn't think I would make a state registered nurse, and I hope I made them proud. And I've had a very wonderful nursing life, so and I think that's possibly helped make me.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

And friends just gave me fly like a great day.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:32

Just to let you know that I'm very involved with the rare dementia group, and my quest when I'm not haven't got so much involvement with Andy after his death, I hope they will take his brain, I hope they will study. We did three research programs with Andy, and my quest is that I can help people navigate dementia by my own story. It's been a hard battle, a long battle, and I hope people don't have to go through half that Andy and I have.

How To Record A Life Story

Chris Grimes 1:18:21

You've been listening to the Good Listening to Show with me, Chris Grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how.com website. And one of these series strands is called Legacy Life Reflections. If you've been thinking about how to go about recording your life story or the life story of somebody close to you for posterity, but in a really interesting, effortless, and creative way, then maybe the good listening to show can help. Using the unique structure of the show, I'll be your host as together we take a trip down memory lane to record the 5-4-3-2-1 of either your or their life story, and then you can decide whether you go public or private with your episode. Get in touch if you'd like to find out more. Tune in next week for more stories from The Clearing, and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.