Andy "One Shot" Gotts! Hollywood's Very Favourite Photographer, on Realising his Dream of a 36-Year 'Wish List' of Who to Photograph, John Hurt's Last Recording, Monty Python and on Never Chasing Fame!

When Andy Gotts was 18, a stranger in Norfolk asked him why he didn't look happy. That single question and the Photography Teacher it quietly led him to, set in motion a 36 year path from a college darkroom in King's Lynn to Hollywood's most idiosyncratic black-and-white portraits.

In this Stories of Distinction & Genius episode, Chris Grimes welcomes Andy "One Shot" Gotts into The Clearing to trace the whole arc: From the 300 letters with not a single reply, the 1 yes from Joss Ackland at his son's wedding in Clovelly, and the line "what do you do and who shagged who?!" that finally gave the wish list its theme. 

Andy talks about the 150 Actors he set out to photograph in 1995, the long, patient pursuit of Gary Oldman that ended this year through Big Mo and a young actress sliding into his DMs, and how Paul Newman himself christened him "One Shot Gotts" after a 4 minute shoot in Connecticut.

The conversation moves through the people who shaped him: His milkman father leaving for work at 3:00 every morning, his devoted mother, Dr Tony Leach who taught him Photography on Saturdays in Holt, Stephen Fry whose 90 second portrait at a college Q&A genuinely started his career, and Sir John Hurt, born on the very same day as Andy's dad. Andy shares the afternoon in East Runton when John told him over a pint of red wine that he had cancer and months to live, and asked Andy back the following weekend to direct him. What followed - John in his late father's priest's robes, speaking 'Imagine' as a parable in a single take - became John Hurt's last ever recording.

There are also the secret Monty Python reunion shoots at Duke's at 3:00 in the morning; LS Lowry, Hitchcock and Sidney Poitier's story about Tony Curtis and The Defiant Ones; Bob Ross's happy little clouds taking over lockdown; three years spent funding a degree as a Norfolk Nightclub Bouncer; an unwavering refusal to retouch a single line on a face; and the epitaph Ringo Starr gave him, "the Ansel Adams of faces."

A warm, story-rich hour and a half about tenacity, taste, and what it really means to "stay on the bus!"

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Transcript

Welcome To The Clearing

Chris Grimes 0:07

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening to Show. Your life and time is with me, Chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing. Where all good questions come to get asked, and all good stories come to be told. And where all my guests have two things in common. They're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors, a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 54321, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, and a cake. So it's all to play for. So yes! Welcome to the Good Listening To show, your life and times with me, Chris Grimes. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin. Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is a really, really exciting day in the Good Listening To show. Stories of distinction and genius clearing. I'm Chris. What's your story, Grimes? And then Have I Got a Story for You? Ladies and gentlemen, would you please welcome? He's just told me the story behind the story of this, which I know he will tell us even more about. One Shot Gotts. This is Andy Gotz, who is, you may not know this yet, but you will soon. He is Hollywood's favourite photographer. Anybody you can think of that you'd like to photograph in a really truly original, iconic, black and white style. Andy Gotts has already had them behind his lens and they're in the shutter. And stored, you've just told me very enigmatically, in some sort of archive that requires you to run perpetually a VPN. Do you want to just tell us a bit more about that, Andy?

The Ridiculous Reality Of Backups

Chris Grimes 1:46

Yeah, it's it's it's an insurance policy, quirky, quack a mile of a stupid thing.

Andy Gotts 1:53

It's because in the good old olden days, I mean, I've done this 36 years. Over the first 21 years, I only shot film. That's all I shot. Then in about 2009, I started shooting digital because I had to, because of Al Pacino. Anyway, I'll tell you that later. And so everything to 2009 is a not a physical thing in your hand anymore. It's it's so a thing on the on a drive that can be lost. So so now, uh, because of insurance, if I want to insure my backlog, my my collection, everything digital has to be backed up three times every hour. It has to be sandboxed three quarters, and the other quarter has to be permanently VPN'd.

Chris Grimes 2:42

Ridiculous. What an extraordinary problem to have. And that is because you have an absolute archive to literally die for. It's a fantastic, phenomenal gallery and glitterati of stars. I also know, and please do get on the open road and tell us about this. In 1995, I believe it was, you made a dream list, I think, of 150 actors you wanted to get in front of your lens. And then I

Starting Out With 300 Letters

Chris Grimes 3:05

I'm so happy to have got you now, because I think only of the beginning of this month have you completed your list with Gary Oldman being the last one, with Gene Hackman, who I think died just before you could get hold of him. Um but just tell us the story, Andy Gotz, of your extraordinary path journey and trajectory to now, because it's an extraordinary story.

Andy Gotts 3:26

Yeah, so so literally um it was 1990, and I went to college, and I was it was in Kings Lynn in Norfolk, and I was doing this photographic course, it was a two-year course, and uh I I then fell in love with um photographing portraits and then celebrities. And I left college, I started doing a bit of Sunday supplements, magazine work, and knocking on doors and and showing my portfolio around, and I started getting you know a few people, and I thought it'd be really nice, it'd be lovely to be able to have an entire collection of portraits. So I I wrote 300 letters to 300 actors, and after six months, there's not one response, there's nothing, nothing at all. And um, I had a phone call one day from Josh Ackland, and he'd just done Lethal Weapon, and he said, hate being photographed, loathe it. But if you come to Calavelli and shoot my son's wedding, at the end, I'll do a photo shoot for you. So I thought I've got nothing to lose, you know. You know, it's the first one, so I I I I I've never done a wedding before, I didn't know what to do. So I went down and I said to the happy couple, I'll do a documentary, I won't do anything posed, I'll just do a little documentary, and they were happy with that. Then I shot Josh Ackland at the end of the he's very tipsy by then, obviously, being the father of the groom. Yeah, happy and jolly. So I've done some lovely pictures of him, and then because it was a six-hour drive from Norfolk to Clavelli, he'd stay the night and go home tomorrow. So I kipped on his couch, and the next morning the family had flown, and it was him and his lovely wife, Rosemary. Uh obviously, they're both now departed, unfortunately, but Rosemary was there. And uh Josh said, So how is the project going? I said, It's not, it's rubbish. Um you're the only person to have waved a little flag to say yes. He said, I'll tell you why. The letter you sent to me, there is no direction, there is no call to action. It is, can I photograph you? He said, You need a theme, you need you need a reason. And I said, But I cockedly said, Well, like what, Jos? And he said, Well, when you do who shagged who? And I said, I don't think many people will say yes. But at that time, it was the six degrees of Kevin Bacon was then starting. So I said, Why do we do the who knows who? And so he threw me in the direction of Gretisgacky, and and that's how the wish list of those 100 people I

Finding A Theme That Gets Yes

Andy Gotts 6:10

put, they started, they started to be checked off. And and literally in the within the first seven years, I'd shot, I think, 96 of them. Wow. And there's a few that were on there, and then then I got to this year, and I knew I'd not got I'd never get Gene. I knew that because I know people who knew him, and I didn't know about his dementia, I didn't know how poor he was, I had no idea. But I was told by numerous people, you know, but it won't happen. And then unfortunately, he passed away, and the only person left on my list was his lordship Alderman. And I've approached him over the years, I know, probably about 12 times, and he has a one man who looks after him, who's he's like this guru, he's his is his his best friend, it's his manager, it's his publicist, it's his everything. His name's Douglas Dabowski. Whenever you see anything to do with Did Gary Aldrin, whether it's slow horses or he's now doing the theatre now, uh, doing crap's last tape. Yes, if you if you look on the poster, it's you know, uh exact produced by Douglas Dabansky. His name's always thrown on everything. So, anyway, um so Douglas always answered me saying, Thank you, but no, you know, Gary's busy, Gary's doing something, and and it's always a no. And so it's one of these you know quirks of nature. Earlier this year, a lovely actress called Shona McCarthy out of the blue Instagrammed a DM. She slid into my DMs and she uh and she said, Oh, I'm I'm an I'm a young actress, I think you're great, you know. I I know I'm not that famous, but will you photograph me, please? Because I think you're great and it'd be great for a portfolio. So I looked into her and she's in EastEnders. And I thought, oh yeah, why why not? You know, she she's she's um she came across as a young bubbly, you know, who I think would be fun to photograph. So yeah, why not? And so she comes to the shoot, come to the Harold Mayfair, we're on base, and we'd done the shoot, we got on like a house on fire, and she's oh, is there anyone you want to photograph? You haven't done yet. And I said, Well, there's one person, Gary Aldrin. Oh, um, should I ask him? Pardon? So yeah, um, I'm best friends with his sister, and and of course, his sister was in this centers, big Mo. And I'd I completely forgot that. So she said, Yeah, um, do you want me to find out Mo and ask her? Because even though her name isn't Mo, everyone calls her Mo in real life. I said, Okay, now bear in mind I'm used to people saying things and not going through it. So I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, Yeah, that'd be lovely if you would. And an hour later, yeah, um, Mo's Moe's gonna go see him at the weekend. She'll ask him uh if he can write a letter to email her, yeah, all the details, what you want, why you want it. And that weekend, Moe phone me up, yeah. Gary said, Yeah, yeah, but pop along. And and and what's lovely, what I adore about this is I waited so long, and sometimes I approach an actor, and you have to go via a publicist or something. Yeah, and if they're doing a movie, they're in production and the headspace is there, or and you know, you get that. But Gary was doing uh Crap's last last tapes up north and at theatre, and he said, Do me on a Saturday, I'll do the the matinee, I've got a

Completing The List With Gary Oldman

Andy Gotts 9:50

turb break, then I've got the evening formats, I'll do you in between, and and and so that's how lovely it was. I mean, he had he didn't have to go into some some headspace, he just declared. Was it your theater role you went to, is that right?

Chris Grimes 10:02

Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. And he was so lovely. And may I just congratulate you for your tenacity, your patience, and your story arc of inception to completion is just such a beautiful testament. And in the meantime, I don't doubt, I mean, anyone watching, if you look at andegots.com, you'll fall off your chair. And I don't doubt that you just need to send the website to someone. Can I photograph you? And just whilst we're talking about asking questions, you were so lovely because I'm trying a similar experiment, because I'm calling this the Good Listening to show Stories of Distinction and Genius. I don't know if you remember, but I tried, you're the first time I tried a really quick pickup line metaphorically. I think you're a bit of a genius. Can I please record you? And you've very, very wittily got in touch with because I am a bit of a one, when would you like to record? And I I love that because there's a synergy there, because I am on a similar, different, equivalent path. There's a lovely allegory of the Helsinki bus garage, a story I can bore you about and on, but it's about stay on the flipping bus, stay on the flipping bus, keep going, keep going, keep going. And I love the fact that despite, you know, complete infamy and success, because you know, the actors you've got, you know, Kate Winslit talks about you being her favorite photographer. You mentioned Al Pacino as number one. Anyway, just check out the website. But I just love the fact that you I'm trying to get famous doing this too, but I just love the fact that in a parallel universe, I just tried a facetious line. It wasn't who's shagging who as you said, it really went on.

Andy Gotts 11:37

Never chase fame, never chase fame. Tell us more. That's that's beautiful, yes. No, but but but it's true. I mean, look, I'm so lucky I do a job I love, and I'm so lucky that I do a job that I daily work with my acting

Never Chase Fame As A Creative

Andy Gotts 11:55

heroes, and there's only a slim number of photographers who are in the position, yes, but I find looking around at my peers, they see themselves as they are famous too. And I don't, I'm doing a job. I go to work, I do a job, I don't caught the red carp, I don't court the sport like spotlight. I mean, I don't want that. This is why I really do interviews, I really do stuff. I have the luxury of doing an amazing job. Yeah, but I'm a photographer, I'm not a celebrity, and that's how I see myself.

Chris Grimes 12:30

May I now, with your permission, get you on the open road? And I'm really, really excited to do this to curate you through the unique storyscape of the goodness of the show, stories of distinction and genius. Uh, if you haven't seen this show before, where have you been? Not you, Andy. This is me talking to the broader audience. I've done about 300 of these monkeys, where have you been? But this is the show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers, and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place of my guests' choosing as they arrive to share their stories of distinction and genius. It involves a clearing or your serious happy place that we'll talk about in a minute, a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 54321. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton, and a cake. So it's all to play for. So just before we get you on the open road of asking you where your clearing is, just please tell us the story of why you're called one-shot gots, Andy Gots. I'm known for shooting very, very quickly.

Andy Gotts 13:31

And that's because when I first started my career, I had to shoot in junkets, movie junkets. And so for the people who don't know what junkets are, if a movie comes out, let's say The Godfather, for example, the production company would hire two suites in the Dorchester Hotel or hotel similar, rooms side by side. Then in room A, there'd be people from this morning or the Guardian or whatever in there to do the interview.

Speaker 2 13:59

Yeah.

Andy Gotts 13:59

And then exactly 10 minutes, there's people over the stopwatch, 10 minutes. Then after 10 minutes, the talent go to the next room to uh to ask exactly the same questions. And in room A, they take it out, and other people are brought in.

Why He Shoots So Fast

Andy Gotts 14:14

So every 10 minutes they go room to room to room, all day, uh be asked the same questions. So for the first eight years of my life, I had to go into a junket space, set up, do my shoot, break down, and leave the room before a big burly man comes in and pulls you out. So, yeah, so let's see. So that's why I learned to shoot really quickly. There's no messing around. I go into a shoot knowing what I want and get it. And so my career progressed, and I was doing quite well. And then Paul Newman said, you know, I've seen your work, you're an amazing photographer. Um, please would you come to uh Connecticut and uh I think on a Thursday and come to my home and we'll do a shoot. And I was absolutely Mr. Newman, but he was my hero out of the galaxy of stars. He was up there. Perfect. So I did. So I went all the way to Connecticut with my two bags, my light bag, my camera bag. Turned up at his lovely house. I could hear some laughing and joking going on in the room next door, and a little head came out saying, I'll be here one minute, I'm just saying goodbyes to some friends. Thank you, Mr. Newman. Uh so set up the backdrop set up a light, the doors open, out come Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. Uh as I as they waved as they went past, and uh Paul came in, or Mr. Newman came in and sat down and said, Okay, kids, how do you want me? And I said, Well, I know exactly the shot I want. I promise I'll be quick. I think you know, we'll be done with just in a few minutes. He said, Listen, son, I've been shot by the best. The best. You guys say you'll be a few minutes, you're ours. So you know, Mr. Newman, I promise you. Four minutes later, I'd done. I said, Mr. Newman, we're finished. He said, That's impossible. I said, Here the Polaroids. He went, you really are one shot gotz. And that's how I got my nickname, given by poor Newman himself.

Paul Newman Coins One Shot Gotts

Chris Grimes 16:21

And ladies and gentlemen, notice, if you will, how Andy Gots has turned up and made that his name today, one shot gotz, which I didn't know until you turned up, which is so exciting. A little bit of weak. That's absolutely fantastic. Okay, so let's get you on the open road of this. Uh, go how you like, how you like, as deep as you like into this structure. Andy Gots, what is your clearing or your serious happy place? When are you absolutely at your happiest? And where is that?

Andy Gotts 16:47

I'd say probably you've had this answer before, but it's my man cave, and and so it's where I am right now. And the reason is because I'm a one-man band, I don't have any staff or anything, I feel and I've felt I need to be in an environment that I'm happy with. So I've turned my little office into a movie man cave, and so I've been collecting movie memorabilia for years. So around me, hidden from view, I've got stuff from Star Wars and James Bond and Lord of the Rings and Home Alone and Die Hard and Harry Potter, all stuff that was that's used in the movies that I've winkled and picked and stolen and been given over the years. And so I so I sit here and look around, be in and I see in the corner, you know, a full-size storm from the original armor from a new hope is this over there, and behind me there is an Iron Man helmet. Uh

The Man Cave Happy Place

Andy Gotts 17:46

actual helmet. This is my happy place.

Chris Grimes 17:48

May I say, as you duck then, I couldn't help noticing, and I want to talk about this as well, the Monty Python picture as well. In your equivalent universe of Paul Newman being your all-time hero, Michael Palin is my all-time comic hero in the same vein as Stan Laurel. You know, if Stan Laurel was still alive, a bit like Gene Hackman for you, I'd love to have met. I was only three when he died, actually, but I'd love to have met Stan Laurel. But Michael Palin has said yes to being in the show recently. I'm just trying to get a date because he keeps slipping away from the date. A bit like the Gary Oldman. What's the Gary Oldman lovely man called, who was the gatekeeper? Douglas Obowski. I love that. So in a universe of no, there's also a universe of yes, which I love because you kept going, even though he said no quite a few times. Yeah, yeah. So please talk us. You've done the Monty Python uh reunion a few times, haven't you? Yes.

Andy Gotts 18:37

So so what happened is over the years I'd shot all Python separately. And I've become quite chummy with Eric Idle because his daughter, she wanted to be a photographer, and now she is a photographer. Uh, and and and so we started to have a friendship. And um I was over in Berkeley in California because Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart were over there together, and Patrick was getting married, and Ian was ornated as the minister to to marry Sunny and Patrick. So I went over to photograph the stagdo, and uh and and so I was over there, and the phone went, it's Eric. And I said, Andy, um, it's Eric. I said, Eric, Eric Idle. I said, Oh, hi Eric. Do you still work in Mayfair? I said, Yeah. He said, Do you fancy a little thing? I've got a little thing I think you might be interested with. I was okay, tell me more. He said, Can you be back here for Tuesday? I said, No, I'm in California. And he said, he said, I think you know uh it'd be worth your while. I was wanting to tell me he said, Well, every seven years, Python get together and talk about finance. Uh, because that the money starts rolling in from you know residuals and everything. Yeah, and he and he said, every seven years we get together, we look at the books, we look at where the money is going. And he said, We're all now of an age, we can't think there's been many more get togethers. Would you mind coming uh and just doing a few photos? He said, We're hardly ever in a room together. Will you come and do some photos? I said, Of course. Round a table. I thought that won't happen. So um I said, where is it going to be? He said, The Duke's Hotel, sedit and mayfair. So I said, okay, so we're always meet there, so telephone at the hotel, and I said, I know there's a meeting happening uh at the end of the week on Tuesday. Do you have another empty space? I'll give you to a studio. So behind their back, I created a little studio. And so I went to do it their thing, them sitting back signing papers and you know, doing that. Then at lunchtime, I said, gents, I've got a little studio downstairs. How about we just do go and do some formal shots? And everyone was very happy, apart from Cleese, who rolled his eyes. Oh, really? Do we have to use lunchtime? I'm hungry. And it'd be fun. And so we went down and I did the shoot. And during the shoot,

How The Python Reunion Happened

Andy Gotts 21:05

a conversation happened between the pythons saying, okay, so we're being sued. So apparently, spam a lot was someone else's idea, and it was taken to court, and it was proved to be it was this guy's idea. And so they had to pay him, I think, 2.4 million or something. It's ridiculous. And and so this conversation happened in front of me. As I was going, Click, how do you raise the money to pay off this guy? And I think Terry Jones said as a joke, let's put the band back together and do a show. And everyone laughed, and it was kind of talked over. And so we finished the photo shoot. We all shook hands, said goodbyes, and I went home. The next day the phone rang and it was Eric. Went Andy. Yeah, Eric. Eric, Eric Idle. Oh, Eric. He said, Um, who have you told about that meeting we had uh and in the shoot yesterday? I said, no one. He went, don't. I went, okay. He said, I can't tell you why. I'll call you next week. Just don't tell anyone it's happened. I was okay. Apparently, over the next three or four days, they all individually sacked their managements. They unified under one umbrella. It was the guy, Queen's producer. His name is escaped me, but they had um a producer who done like being Rhapsody, and then he helped them get into live aid. So the head Jim Beach. Jim Beach is his name. So that they'd hired Jim Beach to be the official spokesperson for Python because they were going to reform and to do a show. And he said, no, Eric said, no one has no one's gonna know. It's gonna be a surprise. We're gonna do one night at the Hammersmith Apollo, and no one can know for six months. Don't tell us all, but we need photo shoots done. So we'll meet you at three o'clock in the morning at Jukes, and we'll all come in separate cars, and we'll all and so that's what we did over the course of months.

unknown 23:05

Wow.

Andy Gotts 23:06

So there's only eight people who knew about the Python reunion, and I was one of them. And then I've done this lovely shot of them all as the character, the Gumby, as the knotted hanky and little uh moustache, and uh my brain hurts. No, that that character, and apparently they'd never all done that character since the Hollywood Bowl 40 years previously, and they never done it in the reunions. I'm the only person to have seen them all in this character, and that was the last ever photograph taken of Python because when they were on stage, they announced they've retired, there will never ever be another Python. Python have ceased to be the breath of life, they rest in peace, that's it. So that does so that photograph is the last ever shot of Python, and so that's why I am very, very proud of myself.

Chris Grimes 24:03

And Andy Gotch, you have an extraordinary knack of being in the right place at the right time with the right thing happening. May I ask you what you dream about? Because you've got Paul Newman, hi Paul, you've got Tom Cruise, hi Tom, Nicole, and then you've got the Pythons. So what do you dream about?

Andy Gotts 24:16

Yeah, I dream about you know, peace and quiet, and and I and and um I suppose when I do let my mind go, but I used to tell my mum off a lot. I said, I was born 10 years too late. But when I first started in the early 90s, and I just started getting a few names, a few of my icons started dying off. People like um Jimmy Stewart, people like you know, you know, uh the Duke, you know, um oh John Wayne. Yeah, all these guys started started passing away. And I said, I was born a few years earlier, maybe he could have got because it was Stephen Fryer told me the story, but he went to see um James Stewart uh when he was a young boy, he was doing the Harvey play and the West End. And Stephen was waiting at the stage door with a waiting for an autograph, and he said, Jimmy Stewart come out and ruffled his hair and said, How are you doing, kid? And he and and Stephen said that was the height of his entire life. Me, it's Jimmy Stewart. When I let my mind, I I I I wish I'd have you know could have done a few of the old guys before they went, I suppose.

Chris Grimes 25:29

May I ask, have you um photographed Brian Cranston yet? I have, absolutely. Because I I went to see him in the show and I left a card for him in the stage door. So I'm hoping that like your call six months later, I might get a call because I've I've just planted the seed by doing a handwritten card. But who knows? The universe is a funny old place.

Andy Gotts 25:48

You know, that effect has happened. I mean, writing notes, handwritten notes, delivering to the stage door, that does work. It does. And so thinking outside the box and not doing what everyone does, go to a publicist or manager. The the little extra special bits you do that normally pulls off. But but Brian Cranston was lovely. He was doing network when I photographed him. Yeah, and you know, he was such a joy. I mean, a bundle of energy and humor, and just a sweet guy. When you do a photo shoot of an actor, it's quite unique because the actor's been shot a thousand times before, yeah, and they and they have their faces they go to. So being a photographer of actors, you have to do this very subtle thing. But if it's all them, all the pictures will look identical. So whenever you go on Google, they'll all look the same. Yeah, if it's all me and my projection, all my photographs will look the same. So you have to I have to do 50%, they have to do 50%, then you do a little dance in the middle to get something that's never been seen before. And and so that's why I love doing a job where my operandus, the thing I'm there for, is to get something people haven't seen before of a famous face.

Chris Grimes 27:10

I love the dance of reciprocity that's implicit in that it's a 50-50, it's a relationship that you build very quickly by being one-shot got. Lovely. Forgive me for going off what lovely, delicious tangents, but now I'm going to pull you back in. Your clearing is your man cave, that you've beautifully described. And for those watching or those listening, you've got Michael Cain, Monty Python,

Dreams Of The Icons We Missed

Chris Grimes 27:30

and Kate Moss as the gallery we can see. Also, we need to appreciate that your iconic, your sort of signature style is the wonderful black and white uh fabric and texture, which is just delicious. As I say, do look at the website, we'll come to a show as your QR code at the end, and you will fall off your chair when you see actually who I'm speaking to. Uh, so now we're in your man cave. I'm going to arrive with a tree in your clearing, which talking about Patrick Stewart and Serena McKellen is a little bit waiting for Goddo-esque. I'm going to shake your tree existentially to see which apples fall out. How do you like these apples? Got a couple of props for you as well. And this is where you've been kind enough, Andy Gotts, to have thought about four things that have shaped you. And I appreciate your giving us this by the bucket load in any case. Three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention, which is where a couple of squirrels are going to come in, borrow from the film up. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know until you tell us. It's not a memory test, but just to get you back into the canopy of your tree, Andy Gotts. What would you say four things are that have shaped you?

Andy Gotts 28:36

The go-to answer is going to be number one, it's going to be my parents. That's an obvious answer, but there is a reason my parents was I come from a very, very working class family. My dad was a milkman and my mum was a waitress. And so dad would leave for work at three o'clock

The Portrait Dance Of Reciprocity

Andy Gotts 28:55

every morning for like 40 years and uh go into the middle of Norfolk in the middle of the countryside, putting two pints of silver top on people's doorstep for literally for years and years and years. He'd come home like midday, then go to sleep. And his work ethic, he never grumbled, he never moaned. It was, I do a job that I feel fortunate, but I'm surrounded by I I want to go into studios or go into hotels and go into other environments. People doing a job they don't like doing. And then they're the first people to tell you they don't like their job, you know. Uh, and but my dad never complained. Uh, he he he enjoyed his job, he enjoyed meeting the people. Maybe that's what that's what I like. My job is I I like the meeting the people. But dad, I remember when I was seven, eight, nine, uh, when uh it was Christmas time, and we we used to go and get the boxes to make hampers, but dad's to deliver hampers to uh supposed milk, and and and and then we I'd go around in the evening delivering the hampers and then he'd get this little Christmas box from each of the and you know, happy memories and the winters that used to snow in those winters. So I used to have to put the things on a sledge and get a pie, uh, a crit of milk and and pull around around the um avenues to deliver them. It's happy memories, it's the worth ethic of and the devoted housewife of mum, how she devoted and looked after us as a family. So so I think they absolutely shaped the person I am, and I wouldn't be the person I am if it didn't have parents who had to work for every single penny to give their children. Some some Christmases they'd saved all year to get a small present for us, you know, and things like that. They couldn't afford luxury, they couldn't afford big things. But the fact is, they gave me and gave my brother what they could, and and it was love and and it was a family, and it was stability, and it was being honest. And I think uh Mark Twain said, if you're honest, you never have to um uh recall a thing in your life, and and it's true, you had to be an honest person, and I think that's what mum and dad gave to me.

Chris Grimes 31:14

So that's number one uh in my list. I I bet you can't hear the clink of two milk bottles or the sound of an electric milk without thinking about your dad. Is he still with us? And unfortunately not.

Andy Gotts 31:25

I mean, it was but what happened is uh obviously lockdown happened, so that was six years ago now in 2020, and uh he got poorly during knockdown, so I didn't see him for 18 months, and during that time he got cancer, and I didn't know because mum

Parents And A Relentless Work Ethic

Andy Gotts 31:40

and dad, you know, don't tell the boys that that attitude, you know, you know the army spirit, don't tell the troops, uh, and then he got poorly, then his his uh cancerous tumour ruptured, and then he was given like days to live, and that's when I was allowed to break lockdown and go and see him. And then the unfortunate thing is he died in in the November. So the following November, my brother and I and Mum, uh, we're getting together to commemorate dad, and we lost mum exactly a year to the day. We lost mum. Uh, and and so uh unfortunately they both went um very, very soon. But the thing is, as I said, mum was a devoted housewife, and I saw mum every weekend when dad passed away. The first thing mum said to me was, I miss your dad. Every weekend I met her, and and so she wanted to be with dad, so she didn't have to wait that long.

Chris Grimes 32:36

So that's the blessing. Did she last to do the ceremony to mark the year since he passed, or was it literally? No, it was literally a couple of days before.

Andy Gotts 32:46

But I was with dad when he passed away. I was literally uh sitting by his bed when he passed away, and I was sitting next to Mum's bed when she passed away. I mean, that's a good thing. And the last thing Dad said to me was he's proud of me. The last thing Mum said to me was, she loves me. So, you know, I can go on my own merry way knowing my parents are proud of me and they loved me. So, what else does a man need in his life, really?

Chris Grimes 33:11

Beautiful storytelling, and I just have to also mention the idea of putting milk bottles down, silver top, gold top, in the snow. Apart from the gold bit there, it's a bit like the world's in black and white, which is then informing the wonderful signature photography that you do so beautifully.

unknown 33:28

Yeah.

Andy Gotts 33:29

Just to say, just to keep on that the milk drop thing, this is how lovely my dad was on hot days when the blue tits would come and tap on the on every single bottom of milk, he'd get stones and put on the on the bottles so that so the birds couldn't get get get the queen. That's the kind of guy he was.

Chris Grimes 33:48

Oh, lovely. Um beautiful. I'm just deliberately allowing a pause there. And now the second thing that shaped you, please, one shot dot.

Andy Gotts 33:57

Okay, so is a gentleman called Dr. Leach. And so Dr. Leach was somebody I met by complete fluke and accident when I was 18. And I was doing a job I didn't like doing. And uh this gentleman said, We don't look very happy. I said, I'm not very happy. He said, Well, what do you want to do? And I said, I really would love to be a photographer. And this gentleman said, I teach photography at a private school in Holt. You're the same age as my sixth formers. If you want to, Saturday mornings, I do hobbies. Come along and I'll teach you with my pupils Saturday mornings. So for six months, I went to see Dr. Leach and he taught me the fundamentals of photography. He taught me how to light a scene, how to do dark room work, how to pre-flash paper, how to develop a film, how to use flash and strobe and uh continuous light. And that September, the first ever college course in um photography happened. It was called a BTEC National Diploma in Design Photography, and it was the first one, and it was in Kings Lynn, and they and they were looking for 15 people throughout the UK to guinea pig this course.

Speaker 2 35:21

Yeah.

Andy Gotts 35:22

As a Dr. Leach wrote to the Dean or NORCAT, the North College in Kings Lynn, the Norfolk College, and he said, you know, I've got this kid with me. He's not a student, he's not academically gifted, but he has something special about him. And if you're looking for someone to guinea this course, and and on the strength of that letter, they took me on. I was one of the 15 they chose, and that's how my photography path started. So I owe most of what I've done to Dr. Tony Leach from Holt. And is Dr. Tony Leach from Holt still with us? I believe so. I believe because he used to be a teacher at Gresham's School in Holt. I believe he then was become an honorary member of staff when he retired. And I think now in the community, he does things around the community and the and the and the local church. I think and I hope he's still around on his bicycle, dottering around, making people's life a bit more happier. And when did you last see him, if I may ask? An awful long time ago, years ago. Uh, but because um I've not been back to Norfolk for a long while. But um, I'd say a good 10 years at least.

Chris Grimes 36:40

I would like to proffer a pilgrimage as an order. I think you should go back. I think so. I think I should. Obviously, he knows what he did. And you are such a warm, generous human being. I'm sure you've thanked him already, but it would just be lovely to see you turn up again, I'm sure. He knows, he absolutely knows because um I talk about him a lot, so he he he knows, luckily. Again, this is just wonderful. Thank you. And now the third shapage, if you like.

Andy Gotts 37:03

I'm not going to have to delve into my plethora of famous names, I'm afraid. Please do. Stephen Frye. Stephen Frye is why I'm sat here today. Um, so I was at this college course, my two-year course, my betechnational diploma in design photography. Year one, you do all photography, you do fashion, fine art, landscapes. Year two, you specialized for an entire year doing it as something. I was getting to the end of year one, it was all nice. There was nothing I felt I could give an entire year to. And I was this close in saying maybe this isn't for me then. And Stephen, who lived in Kingston or South Wuton at the time, he came to uh to give the end-of-year

Lockdown Loss And Final Words

Andy Gotts 37:55

diplomas out. If you if you think back to 1989, yeah, he was a megastar because there was only four TV channels, there wasn't Sky and Cable, there was the four uh terrestrial channels. He was doing Jeeves and Worcester, Black Adder, Fry and Lori. He's getting 28 million viewers per show. He's a mega monster star. Yeah, and he was and he was gonna come to give it the diplomas. And so I knew where he'd be in the art block doing a QA. So the room next door, I set up a backdrop and a light and a camera and went to his QA session. And I sat and I waited, and I thought, oh, here we go. Yes, boy at the back. Mr. Fry, could I please do a picture of you next door? He rolled his eyes, said, Will he be quick? I promise you, I'll be very, very quick. He gave me 90 seconds, I took 10 photographs, changed my life. It was that that eureka, that boom, that, that, that, that moment. Everything made sense. I got this person who was iconic, being stupid for me, doing what I asked him to do, doing things I didn't ask him to do. Just I was I was an audience of one with this famous person, and it was like, you know, a drug, and and and and it was phenomenal.

Chris Grimes 39:16

You're so good at whispering curmudgeonly people. You described John Cleese as being, oh, do we have to? And Stephen Fry, oh, he's not curmudgeonly, I know, but I love the fact that you broke through that in both cases and then did something absolutely iconic, which is fantastic.

Andy Gotts 39:31

And what's lovely is because he talks so much, he went back into the QA, and that gave me time because the dark room developed the one reel of um medium format film, but that had nine photographs on it. I I looked at these notes, and then there's this was Stephen, he's the first one who'll tell you hasn't been gifted with looks because he's got this broken nose, yeah, and it wasn't through talent, it wasn't through, it was a

Dr Leach Opens The Door

Andy Gotts 40:00

luck, a shadow fell across his face. So you couldn't see the break. I thought, oh, that's a nice shot. So I so I quit a 10 by 8, went back to his QA, and as he was leaving, I gave him the 10x8 as he was leaving. And he said, My dear fellow, this is just outstanding. Can I have your phone number in case you know, in case I use it for something down the line? So he gave him my Diggs phone number, but I was staying in a house of other reprobates at the time. As I said, so he says gave him my Diggs phone number and thought, no, no, nothing more of it. Now, apparently, what happened was that weekend he went home, put the photograph on his man for peace. His best friend came over for Sunday lunch, Kenneth Branagh, saw the picture, but darling, who took that? You glorious, who took that? A young boy at college. Do you have his number? Here's his number. And it was a Monday morning, or it's Monday afternoon, because I was laid in because I'm a student. The house phone rang. Oh my gosh, Kenneth Branners on the phone. Yeah, so so I got to the phone. Hello. Hi Andy, is it's Kenneth Branagh? How do you fancy coming to Highgate and shoot me and my wife Emma Thompson? And I said, um, okay, when you know, I think we're both free PM next week. No, I'd passed my driving test three weeks before. Well done so I so I so I drove from Kings Lynn to Highgate at 30 miles an hour along the A11 and M11 because I was getting to, and it took me a whole day to get there. I got to their road, literally a nervous wreck because I'd never driven out of Norfolk before, and this road was all cars parked everywhere, there's nowhere to park, and there was someone's drive. I just I thought I'm just gonna park my car, I don't care. I'm just gonna park my car and it's parked, turn the car off, and I was just sat there. Then I heard this voice, who are you? What do you want? What who are you? This old man can run out of his house, and I was there nearly in tears saying, I've come from Norfolk to photograph Kenneth Branner and I don't know what to do and where to park. And he started laughing. And he said, Tell you what, you can park here all day if you photograph me afterwards. I said, I said, Pardon? He said, Oh yeah, um, I've just done a TV program, Catphile, Derek Jacoby. So Derek, who's friends with Ken and Emma, walked me down. He carried my bags, walked me down to Ken's house, laughing. He said, Look, look what I found. He's part of his car in my driveway, and these are his bags. Look, I'm carrying them, and sat down. So I shot Ken and Emma, and shot Derek, and and they thought it was great. And he said, Oh, so who are you shooting next? Oh, I've got no plan. Um I just went to Bob Hoskins, so she didn't give him a call. Okay,

Stephen Fry Sparks A Career

Andy Gotts 43:05

so he got he got Ken's house phone, called up uh Bob Hoskins, and literally that is how my career started. Wow, thank you to Stephen Fry. So that's why he is on my little list because if it wasn't for Stephen Frye, I would not have started my path that led me here today. And you're still in touch with Stephen Fry, I'm sure. Monthly. We have an email or phone call monthly just to see just to check in with each other. And that and that and that is 36 years later.

Chris Grimes 43:37

This is delicious, and now you're allowed a fourth shape. I'm sorry it's taking a beautiful amount of time. I'm loving this. This is the right length with bells, whistles, and bobs on. So, uh, what's the fourth shape?

Andy Gotts 43:48

I'm gonna delve into the Andy's name list again, John Hurt. Sir John Hurt, the most beautiful human being I've had the fortune of meeting because he Is so lovely and so generous, and what I loved about John is it took me a while to meet him, and I'll reign to shoot because at the time, when I first started reaching out to him, he was living in Ireland up on top of a mountain somewhere, so it was hard to get hold of. Then he moved back to the UK, and eventually we got to meet, and he was born on the exact same day as my dad. Same day, same year, 22nd of January 1940. So I got this infinity with him that in 1940, on January 22nd, two babies were born. One was being an actor, one was going to have a son who's going to end up photographing. So I'd done this thing with Vivian Westwood, uh called Save the Arctic. Who's the first person to call? John. I'd done the thing for BAFTA. Who's the first person? John. Done something for Elton John. Who's the first person? John. And he's always generous and gifted now. The years went by. In the meantime, he'd moved to Norfolk, which is great, because my parents were still living there. And he phoned up and he said, Andy, when are you going to see your parents next? Because I'm maybe at the weekend. When you do love, come around and see me. But let's have a chat. I was okay. So I went around to see him, and he had this lovely house in the middle of nowhere in Norfolk. It's in East Brunton. And it's a lovely house. And in his garden, he had this outhouse, but he made it into an art studio. He'd sit there painting and writing and everything. And we were sat in there, he poured us a pint of red wine each. And he said, darling, I've got something to tell you. He said, I've got cancer. I've been given months to live. I wanted you to know before the press gets hold of it because I just wanted you to know. And I was quite bereft because it was it was almost like you know, a family figure telling you. And he said to me, You're more than a photographer. I said, What do you mean, John? He went, You're more than just a photographer. I see you. You're more than a photographer. I said, John, I don't understand. Oh, he said, the way you see the world would be amazing in a moving image. Using what you do in the moving image would be magical. Can you be back here next weekend with a camera, a moving image camera? I said, Well, I can be, but I've never, he said, come back here and direct me. I want you to direct me next weekend. So we finished our wine, we had a bit of a cry and a hug, and I went back to London. I went to a camera shop, and I said, I need to get a camera that can do film. Something I just pressed play and stop, you know. Uh, and it's okay. And he said, uh you'll need sound software as well. So you can get that so um Calimet in London gave me all the higher stuff. And the next weekend I went back to John, and I thought, you know, I don't directing the elephant man, directing Quentin Crisp, do you know, directing, you know, all these figures, his he's made famous about the years. What do I do? And so he said, let's get set up in the in the art studio. So it got set up, and I got a green screen set up, and it's I've done my the lighting I'll do for a photograph, I'd done for this. And I saw in the corner of his room there's a priest's robe, you know, the dog collar. And I said, he said, yes, my father was a priest, and for no reason other to give me more thinking time, I said, John, do you want to put it on? So of course I will. So he dressed up as this priest, and I was like, What should I do? What should how do I direct him? I still don't know what to do. He sat down, he went, Okay, darling, direct me. And I said, Do you know the words of Imagine by John Landon? Of course I bloody do. And I said, Well, how about your priest speak the words like I'm one of your parishioners? Speak the words as if you're giving me a parable. Imagine there's no heaven, and he did this entire imagine in one take,

Branagh, Jacobi, And Momentum

Andy Gotts 48:40

and we we done it. And he said, He said, Senor Gots, shall we go again? I I John, you did probably more than I I I wanted. And he said, and he said, Let's do it one more time. He said, Give me a note. I said, What's a note? You know, give give me an idea, you know, you give me your limp. That's that's called a note in the business. I went okay. Um, when you say um get to the line, um, imagine there's no heaven, your priest, give it a little rice smile. Imagine there's no heaven. And you know, I'll keep that. And and so he did he took it once more, and that then we um you know had another drink, he said goodbyes. And uh that was the last time I I saw John, and that was the last thing he ever recorded. So I videoed John's last ever recording of him doing Imagine, and I showed it to a friend of mine who knew John, Charles Dance, and he started crying, and he said, This is the most beautiful, iconic piece of filmmaking I've ever seen. And so John making me do filming has now inspired me. My next direction, I'll I'm gonna direct something. I'm gonna I'm gonna write and direct something, and that's and and that's a little burner that John gave me. And so if it wasn't for John, uh I wouldn't have that uh little burning desire in the back of my head. And Andy, is that in the public domain, that film? I

John Hurt’s Gift Of Direction

Andy Gotts 50:20

showed it only to Anwin, that's John's wife, and um I showed it to a few of his um friends and his son, Nick, and and then I then I I just kept it to me, and then Anwin said one day, people should see this. So I I've not known what to do with it. So I put it on YouTube, so it's on YouTube, but I will find something to do with it one day.

Chris Grimes 50:45

But but what I will do, I don't know, but it's up there. And will you please share the link with me and with us? Because I just think that's I just have to go and see it. That's because of all the faces in all the world, John Hurt had the most beautiful, line, lived in. I mean, what what a subject. And the fact is, his voice is so iconic.

Andy Gotts 51:04

And I used to tease him all the time because we used to talk about favorite characters, favorite roles for favorite movies, and I said to him, To me, John, your best role ever was skeleton key. And then he then he got his grumpy face, and he's but I played around the stroke and I couldn't speak. I said, Exactly, you couldn't speak, so you didn't rely on your voice, you relied on your your acting, and so so he knew his voice was his money, he knew he knew that. So it's always teased him that skeleton key, where he played a man who couldn't speak was his best role ever.

Chris Grimes 51:36

So he liquid gold, liquid gold was his voice, but also I'm just so hooked by the imagine by John Lennon set to John Hurt standing in his father's priest garb. Grief. Yeah, okay. We've done your shapage, woohoo! And now on three things that inspire you. If there's any overlap or you've covered it already, that's completely fine. So three things that inspire you, Andy.

Andy Gotts 52:00

My MA I did was an MA in photography and history of art. Yeah. I love art. So I'd say an inspiration is L S Lowry for two reasons. One of them is quite to me quite epic. But the first reason is I loved his mindset. I love the fact people took the Mickey out of him because it was they they thought his art was too naive, too simplistic, too repetitive. It was, you know, boring. He wasn't skilled enough to paint shadows, so he didn't bother, you know, and and people took the Mickey out of him. And he knew people took the Mickey out of him, and he said, I don't care. This is how I paint, this is how I paint, this is how I like to paint, and I will continue painting this way. And I have the same mindset. Some people say, you know, why don't you try colour? Why don't you try putting people in smart clothes? I have them groomed. It's like, well, no, this is my style, this is how I want to photograph. I'm not going to be fit in a box. You know, you're a celebrity, a photographer, you're gonna you're gonna photograph celebrities in the celebrity. I mean, for example, let's say Brad Pitt was being photographed by Van De Fair. They'll wheel him to a studio where he'll have his hair and makeup done, give him a suit to borrow, then have four or five lighting directors to light him, tell him how to pose, then the photographer photographer's wheeled in, click, wield out, and and and I don't want to shoot Brad Pitt, the character, I want to shoot Brad Pitt, the person. So I don't care his hair is out there, I don't care if he's got spots, I don't care how he's dressed. And I think my mindset is with Larry, so he is a massive, massive. And another reason is there was I'm not gonna say dearly departed, but let's just say he's gone, an art critic called Brian Sewell. Yes, and Brian Sewell didn't like Larry and his paintings, he didn't like me because he was, he didn't he didn't think photography is an art form. And I went to a book launch of his, and uh and it was in May phase it's just around the corner, and he clocked to me as as he saw me come in the room, and in an elevated voice, he said, Ah, Andy Gotts, he did photography what Larry was for painting. He thought that was a put down, but I took that as thank you, and that's exactly who I am. Thank you.

Chris Grimes 54:40

So, Larry, he's um one of the people who who I yes, and the the the iconic theme tune of matchdalk men and match stalking Michael and the the two men, Michael and someone. Yes, I wish it had come to me, but uh yes, Lowry, totally iconic because of the matchstick, no shadows, all of that, and also I'll be me is the great punchline from that. I'll I'll be me, you be you. That's fantastic. Exactly.

Andy Gotts 55:11

And and the and the fact is, you know, he was an old man when he started painting, yeah. And and uh he got to a stage where his paintings weren't making him any any money, so he used to be looked after by a home help, yeah, and his and and so he used to paint on the back of cardboard boxes as payment to the people who looked after him in his old age. And that the fact is, well, uh it's like um Van Gogh, for example, um sold one painting, made no money, and and and and I think there's artists like that, uh like Caravaggio Rembrandt, uh they had a something, something magical. When I do my lighting, my lighting is Carvaggio-esque. I mean, carescuro, I think it's called the the play of light and shadow.

Chris Grimes 55:58

Yeah, I try and use that in my work. And sorry for the thick question. I can't remember the time Larry died, but did you ever meet him?

Andy Gotts 56:05

Sorry if that's oh no, no, no, no, he must have died because I watched a thing recently on an aeroplane going to LA, and it was Ian McKellen. Someone found tapes of interviews that Larry had given over the years, yeah. And so so Ian McKellen was pretending to be Larry, lip-syncing the actual tapes, and I think that must have been done in 76-77. I was alive when Larry was alive, but I was I was I was I was a kid.

Chris Grimes 56:36

Bit like me and Stan Laurel, equivalent universe, absolutely.

Andy Gotts 56:39

Another one uh was Hitchcock. I love Hitchcock because of his work ethic, not so much his movies, other movies are amazing. I love I love other movies, but it was the way he the way he worked, the way his ethic, where he used to hire a member of staff, he's to sack them on the first day, just keep it just to keep everyone, you know, uh on point. And little things like that. I thought the way he worked, the way he structured a movie, the way he structured how things would happen, when it would happen. He didn't listen to the studio, didn't listen to what the producer said to him. He, as the director, ruled the roost, and it was his way or the highway. It's a bit like, I mean, I said the modern-day equivalent would be David Lynch, where I saw a little video clip the other day where David Lynch was doing a movie, had the headphones on, and he had someone from the studio next to him that said, Can't we shorten that scene? He went, shorten that! How dare you tell me to short that well you know and it's like you know, I love the attitude where actually, you know, if they say that's what you do because it's their money, but but but it's the attitude is it's my movie, and and so I like Hitchcock because of that. And my third one is another, pulling your name out, Cindy Poitier. And uh, I was so fortunate, I've met him a few times uh over the years, and um the first time I met him, he he was telling me his life story, and it was just so lovely where he was saying about he was raised in the Bahamas in this little shanty village, and his his parents made five dollars a

Lowry, Hitchcock, And Creative Spine

Andy Gotts 58:20

month, and they used to pick cotton and stuff, and where he lived, there was no hospital that they had a soothsayer and and this kind of stuff. So uh Sydney was born five weeks too early, and so the mother gave birth to Sydney and wasn't breathing and thought the baby was dead, and so the mother literally got up with blood all over her legs and everything, got up, went to the soothsayer and said, You know, my son's uh has been born, um, I don't know what to do. And so the soothsayer got hold of her hands, went into a bit of a trance, said, Don't worry, your son will walk among us kings. And uh she uh and so the mother went home. The father, thinking the baby was dead, had wrapped it, mummified the baby and put it in the crib. No, no, the baby will be fine. So unwrapped up, give a hit on the back, wee, weh, that's how Sydney started his life. And he was telling this, he's telling the story with tears streaming down his face. And he's telling me about the struggle about getting from the Bahamas to New York to start and how he was never taken seriously again. It's like Larry, never taken seriously because of his thick accent, his thick and he said, I had to watch British movies to lose the accent. Yes, and he said I then had to learn that. I then had the hard task of leaving the theater to start movies in Los Angeles, and he said, No one had done that, no black man had made the transition from theatre to movies, yeah. And I went and I tried and I auditioned, and no one would give me a chance, no one would give me, they just saw me as a black face and they didn't give me a chance, they did give me a chance. And he said, One day I was given a chance to do a movie, and in the movie, oh and this is him speaking, is it in the movie, I was always in a one-shot, I was never in a two-person shot, uh we see two actors. I was always I was in a one-shot because they had cut me out of the film, you know, because some states didn't have black men in film, and he was telling me this story, and he said, and I owe my career to Tony Curtis, and I said, Why? And he said, Tony and I done a movie called The Defiant Ones, and he said, I and Tony play prisoners, we're shackled together, we're on a train. Tony plays a bigot, I'm a black man, and we escape. The entire movie is a bigot racist and a black man shackled together. Yes, we're on the run, we had the same amount of screen time, same amount of dialogue, but the poster was Defiant Ones starring Tony Curtis. Yes, and Tony said to the studio, unless we have equal billing, take my name off the movie. And so uh Sydney was the first black actor ever to headline a movie. And he said, if it wasn't for Tony, yeah, I wouldn't be here, Cindy Poitier wouldn't be here, uh, Wesley Snipes wouldn't be here, Dendor Washington would he said he said we owe it all to our white man, and and and and that's him with such respect with someone who wanted to help out someone, you know, the gift of a good deed.

Chris Grimes 1:01:41

Yes.

Andy Gotts 1:01:42

And and I and I think that's resonated, sort of stayed with me. Yeah, doing a bit sort of good for someone, for and you're getting nothing back, not even a thank you, getting nothing back, but you're doing something good for the good of something.

Chris Grimes 1:01:57

Yes, so a wonderful, simple, random act of kindness, or not random, but a very specific act of kindness. Love that. And now we're on to the very exciting bit. Borrow from the film Up, where the dog goes, Oh, squirrels. So, what are your two squirrels? Your what would you say your two monsters of distraction are? What two things never fail to grab your attention, Andy, one-shot gots, irrespective of anything else that might be going on for you in your very eclectic life.

Andy Gotts 1:02:23

When I see the news, when I read articles, when I flick the internet, what gets to me, what gets my attention, young celebrities and their attitude. I've got this beef with some you you look at these old actors who shine in the glory, who do anything for anyone. Yeah, sometimes you see a headline,

Sidney Poitier And Equal Billing

Andy Gotts 1:02:45

a famous singer uh was smiled at in a restaurant, and she sent a bodyguard off to tell them off. It's like it's like the arrogance now of younger celebrities. Yeah, that stops me. I'm dumbfounded that I mean, it's like, how dare they tell the public aren't less than them. The public, you know, I've not say they owe their career or they owe their fame, but if it wasn't for these people buying the records, it wasn't for them buying Netflix or going to cinema, they wouldn't have. So to I to I it's the arrogance of some of the younger celebrities.

Chris Grimes 1:03:23

Yes, that's a whoa, hello, stop. I love it when a squirrel is a bit of a beef as well. So thank you for that incredulity of arrogance of young celebrity.

Andy Gotts 1:03:31

I love that is absolutely, and the other one I'd say, and it's usually because um out of all social media, the one I'm on most is Instagram. I mean, as people will know, you know, you can do an Instagram post and it posts on Twitter or post it on Facebook. So literally I do one thing on Instagram and it posts everywhere. So I'm on Instagram the most, and when I'm scrolling through Instagram, what stops me is the brilliance of makeup in film, the prosthetics, how the skill behind that in a different life, that's the career I'd have done. Because I'm lucky enough that um because of my job, I've met a lot of these people who who do prosthetics. Yeah, for example, there's a guy called Barry Gower, he's one Emmys, and you you name it, he's one Golden Globes. He invented Beckner in Stranger Things, he invented the Night King in Game of Thrones. You know, he invents he's he's just finished making Johnny Depp into Ebenezer for the This Christmas is uh Scrooge and looking at what he does. And and I've got another friend, uh David, he won the Oscar for making Gary Alderman into Winston Churchill. Yes, there's one thing seeing prosthetics of a monster because a monster is imaginary, but seeing prosthetics to make a face look human and realistic. Yes, I think this skill and that so that stops me. When I'm scrolling through, and you see a bit of a face, so you think it's a face, then you can see a bit of latex pops out, and so that that always stops me. I I always have to stop and think, how was that painted? Yeah, how is that how is that hair punched? How is that I I like zoom in and so look, look, and so to answer your question, prosthetics and special effects makeup is one of my squirrels, one of my nuts,

Two Squirrels That Stop Him

Andy Gotts 1:05:30

as it were.

Chris Grimes 1:05:31

Lovely squirrels, lovely nuts. And now the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you, Andy Gots. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

Andy Gotts 1:05:39

During lockdown, I got obsessed with Bob Ross and his happy little clouds. And so I so I learned during lockdown to paint landscapes Bob Ross style. So so that's that's what I did. So, I mean, for people who don't know who Bob Ross is, he had this technique called a wet on wet painting technique. So he'd get his canvas, get an oil and a white paint, laminate the entire white canvas, then paint on that paint on that wetness so he can move the paint around so it blends together. Yeah. And I taught myself Bob Ross painting during lockdown. That's something a particular sort of duh piece that you produce, you're thinking that's the one. I did a traditional Bob Ross landscape with snow-top mountains and a few pine trees and a few grassy knolls. To me, I remember watching Bob Ross when I was six or seven, watching him on screen because it was such a unique experience. It'd be just a black background with an easel and this man with an afro who was pleasant, he was talking to you. You're there watching him, and in 24 minutes, I'm gonna do an entire landscape. Yes, and so it wasn't you know, over the course of a week, but in 24 minutes, he'd do a wet white canvas into a beautiful landscape, and I was mesmerized being a child, and then during lockdown, I stumbled across a YouTube thing, and what people don't know about me is that, and also another little thing people people will never know about me. When I was doing my first degree, I didn't get uh my parents couldn't afford to send me to university, I didn't get a birth three, I didn't get a scholarship, I had to work every day for about three years. So for every day for three years, I was a nightclub bouncer. And I did I'd I started work at nine o'clock at night or three o'clock every morning. I was a bouncer to make money to fund my photography. When I left three years later, most of my peers were in debt. I was in the green. I left uni with money in the bank, so that that's not something people don't know about.

Chris Grimes 1:08:01

Now ask how tall you are because I wasn't perceiving you'd be uh a big, bruising six foot seven bouncer stereotypically. Oh five foot two. No, I'll uh I'm five foot ten, five foot ten.

Andy Gotts 1:08:12

So so so I'll so I so I'll I'll I mean

Bob Ross Paintings And Bouncer Shifts

Andy Gotts 1:08:15

the average height for a Caucasian person in in the UK is five foot eight. So I'm above I'm above average height, just but oh yeah, five foot ten.

Chris Grimes 1:08:26

Love that. Also, I'm loving the through line of how you're very admiring of one of a kind. It's so the John Hertz of the world, the Stephen Fryes, even the Bob Ross you've just described. There is a through line of you being very attracted to the sort of universe of people who are totally idiosyncratic, even your own work, your your true authentic, I'll be me, you be you. And that quote that I heard Stephen Fry quoting Oscar Wilde, be yourself because everyone else is taken, is a real quote. We have shaken your tree, hurrah. Now we stay in the clearing, which is within your man cave, which is where you're nayfair. And now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold. And again, I think you've been giving us this by the bucket load in any case, but when you're at purpose and in flow, Andy Gotts, Hollywood's favorite photographer, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Andy Gotts 1:09:18

I'm happiest when I actually do nothing. I feel pleasure when if you'd imagine, because of the time zones, I'm up really, really late in the morning. So it's maybe it's about three o'clock in the morning, talking to LA for the time difference. Yeah. And then first thing in the morning, our time, I speak to people in Asia. Yeah. And so literally all my day is I'm doing something. So my, you know, I'm at my happiest when I'm sat down, when emails are off, computers are turned down. Maybe, you know, I have go-to movies, I have movies, I can sit down, turn the sound down, and I can voice every line of every actor because I've seen it like 80, 90 times. And so maybe watching a movie with a sound barely up, and it's just watching it with a blank look on my face, letting it wash over me. It's like um trading places. I watch trading places every day of the week, and and it's great because the story behind it, the making someone what he's not, then making them back again, but you can't turn back to time because it'll bite you. I mean, that the whole thing, I mean, the whole story arc of trading places. Yes, it's not not in everyone's top hundred, of course it won't, but it's my favorite, and my favorite movie of all time is a 1955 version of the Lady Killers, not the Tom Hanks butchered version he did, which I tell him is rubbish, it's the original. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's something magical, magical about that. Because did you know him as well? I mean, the cast, I mean, yeah, you had uh Danny Green,

Doing Nothing And Comfort Films

Andy Gotts 1:11:05

you had Herbert Lom, who was a friend of mine, before he passed away, you had Peter Sellers. But did you did you know the part was actually written for Anasta Sim? So the the professor role, I was friends with uh George Cole. And George was the adopter, we're not gonna say adopted, but he lived with Alistair Sim when he was growing up, but we say he didn't have parents who cared about his well-being. So so George Cole lived with Alistair Sim. And so if you look at some of the George's early movies, yeah, he's with Alistair, whether whether it's the Trinians or whether you know George would pop up and and he told me this little story where Alistair was doing a movie and it was a sequel to a movie. So so he couldn't do lady killers. So casting people found uh uh found Alec Guinness and they made him up to look like Alistair Sim with the long hair and the crooked teeth. So some people think Alistair Sim is the lead in it, but actually it's uh it should have been, but it's uh the lovely Alec Guinness.

Chris Grimes 1:12:14

And I'm assuming you've photographed, of course, you have Eddie Murphy as well talking about trading places. Absolutely, absolutely.

Andy Gotts 1:12:20

I I and and and the thing is, I love good things in movies, I like the crossover parts in movies. So sometimes when a movie happens and there's another movie, and they make a reference to the movie, and so I I love it. In um, you've got like trading places where you have these two arrogant, rich people, and they uh and and they have they put all their money in stocks and they bet that the orange crop will fail that year, and they put all their money in, and then the Eddie Murphy character and the Dan Ackford character shimmy around, so actually it makes money. So these two old guys lose all their money, they're thrown out of the stock exchange, and and then they're left without a penny, and then in coming to America, the scene where where the prince comes to America and he says, I will I must give away all my money, gets this big wad of money, and those are these two tramps, these two tramps are the are the two old men that go, Ah, we're back, and it's things like that. So I I love the crossover movies and I love it.

Chris Grimes 1:13:26

I'd have looking good, Elwood, feeling good, Elwood. Wonderful. So now uh we're coming up towards the end of the show now, whereby I'm gonna award you with a cake now, Andy Gots. Hurrah! First of all, do you like cake?

Andy Gotts 1:13:40

I let's say if we were in a restaurant and you said you can have a dessert, I always have apple and uh rhubarb crumble. That's my favorite. But if you had to say, have a cake or I

Quotes, Advice, And The Golden Baton

Andy Gotts 1:13:55

will punch you, I'll have a carrot cake.

Chris Grimes 1:13:58

You can have both rhubarb, apple crumble, bit of ice cream, and a bit of cake that's that's the flavour of choice there. What was the flavor you said? A carrot. You get to put a cherry on your cake now. What's the favorite inspirational quote that's always given you succor and pulled you towards your future?

Andy Gotts 1:14:14

It's funny. I didn't even think of this question. Uh that's off a radar, but all of a sudden three came in my head at once. So um I'll I'll do the first one. Um, it's a Mark Twain one. And and and it's a lovely one. And it's um the two most important things in your life. One is when you're born, two is when you find out why. I like that a lot. I like that. And also, I like the Richard O'Brien one from the rookie horror show, where don't dream it, be it. I like that one. I also like the Phineas T. Barnum one. There's a sucker born every minute. I like that one too. But I'd say Mark Twain was uh encyclopedia of quotes.

Chris Grimes 1:14:57

So I think that's my favorite one. Just to deliberately reincorporate the Mark Twain one, just say it again so we can let it float there.

Andy Gotts 1:15:04

Yeah, so um the two most important parts of your life. One is the day you're born, this other one is when you find out why.

Chris Grimes 1:15:14

Lovely. With the gift of hindsight, uh, what notes, help, or advice might you proffer to a younger version of yourself, Andy Gott, so you can decide when you go back and holographically appear, wrap your arms around your own shoulders and whisper some wise words in your own ear. What would you say?

Andy Gotts 1:15:30

If I was to give advice to my younger self, or go back and say something to my older self, I'd say, you're right. Because people, I was brought up with people thinking I'd never make it. People that said, change your career, you're never gonna make it. And I now and again doubted myself, I'd go back and say, actually, you're right. Stick to it, you're right. But if I was to give some advice to other young people, I'd say be yourself. Don't change yourself to please other people. Don't try and be something you're not, be yourself. And if people don't like you for being yourself, they're not worth knowing.

Chris Grimes 1:16:10

Perfect. We're ramping up to talk about Shakespeare finally, but just before we do, this is a moment called Pass the Golden Baton, please. An invitation which you don't have to follow the path of, but now you've experienced this from within. Who in your network might you like to pass the golden baton along to who might like to be given a damn good listening to in this way?

Andy Gotts 1:16:31

I'd say, I'd say I've got three friends, two of them are famous, and one of them is famous in his own right. I'd say either I'd give the baton to Barry Gower, that the he's a prosthetic makeup artist, and it's B-A-R-R-I-E, Barry Gower. He is an amazing makeup artist, but I'd go down either Charles Dance, he is quite quite a cool guy to he has a litany of stories, but also the actor, David Bradley. He is phenomenal. I mean, but people might know him from being the Harry Potter playing the caretaker, but he has done so much over the years, and and uh and I sat with him and he was telling me literally every actor you can imagine he knows or has worked with, going back to like the 1940s, 50s, he knows everyone. He'd he'd have anecdotes, so I'd had my button to David, Barry, or Charlie.

Chris Grimes 1:17:31

Either of those would be well worth the plonck. Well worth the plonck. And with your permission, if you can broker a sort of warm introduction, that would be marvellous. Thank you very much indeed. Sincerely, thank you. That's just beautiful. And now, inspired by Shakespeare,

Ansel Adams Of Faces Legacy

Chris Grimes 1:17:45

all the world's a steed and all the men and women merely players. This is the actual book that I bought. It's not a first folio, but when I first went to the Bristol Olvick Theatre School years ago, it says here, Chris Grimes, 1698, when I went there. I'm also about to be at the Bristol Olbick Theatre School interviewing Sir Gregory Duran, I think, live on stage, which is very, very exciting. So, um inspired by Shakespeare, all the world to stage and all the men and women merely players. How, when all is said and done, Andy Gotts, Hollywood's favourite photographer, would you most like to be remembered?

Andy Gotts 1:18:19

Well, I'm lucky I already know my epitaph, which is good, but it was given, it was given to me by Ringo Starr. He set up the the loveliest thing. And so, for those who don't know who Ansel Adams is, Ansel Adams was a photographer of landscapes, and he done the most brilliant mountains in Yosemite, and it's just unbelievable. And the way he did it would he'd get his bit of dark green paper, he'd pre-flash the paper, and then do the zone system. So every photograph had the pure white, pure black, and eight shades of grey in between. And his landscapes you see every nook, every cranny of this of his mountains. And Lingo Starr made the uh little quote, Andy Gotts is the Ansel Adams of Faces. And and I think that that will be uh on my tombstone because I'm the only, I do say I'm the only celebrity photographer. I don't edit faces, I don't read touch, there's no Photoshop. So when I go click, that is that's it. So you can see every wrinkle, every every crow's speak. Some people comment on my work, why haven't you edited out you know? Because I've done this lovely picture of um Lauren McCall when she was 88, and you can see her face, and you can see every single line. And when I was at her house, in she lived in the Dakota building, in that, and that's a building where um Lennon got killed outside. So you can't photograph with the inner building. So I had to UPS with camera in, which you like to shuffle down when you go in. Uh so I did the secret photoship in her house. I shot her on a very close lens, and she said, Yeah, these lines Catherine Hatburn gave me, these lines Bogey gave me, and it's just like her face was the map of her life. Yeah, so why so so why edit them out? Yes, you know, I I don't understand why some magazines think I know the the the the public thinks, you know. I'll I'll get I'll give you a great example. A great example is Rolling Stones lead singer, um Mick Jagger. Yeah, okay. So Mick doesn't like his wrinkles. So when you see him on stage, then there's a filter on the camera. So you know, beside the stage, you see the screens. Yes, it's to it's to mirror out a shadow reflection on your skin, so he looks more youthful. But there's this great photograph. Someone stood behind the monitor, photographing the monitor, and Mick Jagger, and it's so you can compare the real Mick Jagger to the one you see on the screen, and it's like people make know your face, they see that you don't have to pretend you'd have lines. We know you're in your 80s, you know, it's not it's nothing to be embarrassed about. So I I think you know, Rean goes, you're the Ansel Adams of Faces. That's gonna be my when I when I when I cark it. And it's Ansel Adams, is that right, Ansel Adams, yeah.

Chris Grimes 1:21:30

Answer so A-N-S-E-L, Ansel Adams. And just so we've got the quote, knowing the spelling of the name, just say the epitaph once again, just to deliberately reincorporate it. Andy Gotz. Is it Ansel Adams of Faces? Wonderful. We're gonna ask a final, final question in a second, but now I'm just gonna do a very exciting moment which is called Show Us Your QR code, please. So if you've been watching and listening to this extraordinary uh journey and traversed with a clearing by Andy Gotz, if you're watching, you can scan the QR code straight away. But it's very simple.

Book, Websites, And Final Goodbye

Chris Grimes 1:22:05

You just go to andygotts.com and the whole world of the black and white signature landscape. And you're also showing a book. Tell us more about that, Andy. This is just my last book.

Andy Gotts 1:22:16

This is my lockdown book. So during lockdown, I had uh 18 months of no photo shoots. So I went through my entire uh 30-year collection. Yeah, I've done I've done a book of contact sheets from my um archive, and and and so this is my latest book.

Chris Grimes 1:22:34

It's called The Photograph. And I'm just gonna unmirror you just for a moment. So I'm gonna hold the book up again. So there you are. I'll keep you mirrored for the rest. Andy got, and that's the one and who's that on the front? Sorry, her name's just gone straight out of my head. Scarlett Johansson. Of course it is. Apologies, of course it's Scarlett Johansson. Lovely. So go and buy that book too. Just a couple of announcements from me. If you've been enjoying uh listening to this show, the website for my show is thegoodlistening to show.com. In rather exciting news, it syndicates to iHeartRadio, Brushwood Media, and also UK Health Radio. So potentially there are tens of millions of listeners across the world listening to the show as well. There's also a very special series strand to the show in case of extra, extra interest called Legacy Life Reflections, which is to use this same curated structure to record your life story for posterity. That's legacylifereflections.com, helping you to take a trip down memory lane with this structure. Andy Gotz, one shot got as this has been your moment in the sunshine in the good listening to show Stories of Distinction and Genius, and I can't tell you what a privilege this has been. And thank you for saying yes when I asked you that facetious question. I think you're a bit of a genius. Please come to talk to you. Is there anything else you'd like to say, Andy?

Andy Gotts 1:23:51

I would say to people, uh either starting out in an art. So whether you're a painter, whether you're a ballet dancer, whether you're a poet, I'd say, you know, there are several quotes out there that you know people can associate with trying. The best philosopher, you don't need, you know, uh an A an Asian um clever quote. The best quote was by Rocky Balboa, where he says, you know, it's not how hard you can punch, it's how hard you can take a punch and get up and keep moving forward. And and I think I had that in my head when I was I was a jobbing photographer, and every phone call was a thank you but no. There's times you think, is it worth it? It's the strength to go forward, the strength to think actually, one day, one day I'll get there. So I think for any artist, any anyone who's finding a struggle, especially in this current climate of uh AI and current climate of you know, people don't believe what you do anymore because they think you've just typed it and it's come up. I think for creative people, it's a really hard life at the moment. I'd say you're gonna get hit hard, stand up, keep moving forward, you might win the fight.

Chris Grimes 1:25:16

And the the Rocky Balboa, quote, obviously still Vesta Stallone, so I know you photographed him as well. Okay, obviously. Fantastic. Um, thank you so much, Andy. Uh you don't have to say yes, but um someday, may I come and visit your man cave because it just looks extraordinary. If you win and ask your Grammy, I'll work on it. And someday I would love to be on the on the receiving end of your lens. But anyway, thank you so much. Uh it's been a privilege, it's been a great conversation. And uh yes, and and who are you photographing next, if I may ask? You know, I can't tell you.

Andy Gotts 1:25:51

I I'm doing a project that's lasting a year, and I'm and I'm I'm I'm going to America twice a month doing this this book that's coming out next February. And it's and I've had to do an NDA. I'm not, I can't even say what is evolving, but I'm doing this massive thing. It's going to be the biggest thing I've ever done.

Chris Grimes 1:26:08

And it's out next February. Wow. So, ladies and gentlemen, I've been Chris Grimes. Most importantly, this has been the wonderful Andy One Shot Gots. Thank you for listening. Thank you very much indeed. End the stream. Good night. You've been listening to the Good Listening to Show with me, Chris Grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how care of the series strands at the goodlistening2.com website. If you'd like to connect with me on LinkedIn, please do so. And if you'd like to have some coaching with me, care of my personal impact game changer programme, then you can contact me and also about the show at Chris at secondcurve.uk. On X and Instagram, it's at thatChrisGrimes. Tune in next week for more stories from the clearing. And don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.