The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Working for Cause Not Applause: Nigel Risner's 211°vs 212° Theory

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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What if your team’s friction isn’t about difficult people—but mismatched “food”? We sit down with Nigel Risner, the self-styled Chief Zookeeper, to unpack a disarmingly simple idea: people are different, not difficult. From that starting point, Nigel shows how to stop serving steak to dolphins, how to read the room fast, and how to change your language so action follows naturally. He’s direct, funny, and unfiltered—and he cares about results more than applause.

Nigel walks us through the moment his model clicked, staring at labelled buckets in a zoo and realising communication is about feeding styles, not forcing messages. We talk about being responsible to the audience, not for the audience; why the best meetings prize presence over note-taking; and how small changes in pace and detail produce big jumps in buy-in. His 211 vs 212 framework nails peak performance: most days are very good, but a few tip into “boiling” when energy and clarity align. You can’t fake those days—but you can study and repeat what makes them possible.

There’s heart and grit here, too. Nigel shares the story of a brain aneurysm after a relentless travel schedule, how COVID forced a reset, and why “be where your feet are” became more than a line—it became a way to live. We riff on tennis and the inner game—play the point you’re in, serve well, and reduce interference—and translate that into everyday leadership and customer service. He also gives us four punchy values to carry forward: drink from the fountains of knowledge, swear to make today your best, steal time to help others, and, when you lie down, be grateful for dreams.

If you lead teams, speak to customers, or simply want more 212 days, this conversation is a toolkit: practical, human, and immediately usable. Listen, share with a colleague who needs clearer conversations, and subscribe for more stories that sharpen your leadership. Then tell us: which animal are you feeding first this week?

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Chris Grimes:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening to Show, your life and times with me, Chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing, where all good questions come to get asked, and all good stories come to be told. And where all my guests have two things in common. They're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors, a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 54321, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, and a cake. So it's all to play for. So yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show, the life and times of me, Chris Grimes. I use it in comfortably. Then we shall begin. Boom! An enigmatic pause just as we go live across the World Wide Web. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm Chris Grimes, What's Your Story? I am the curator and host of The Good Listening To Show, Stories of Distinction and Genius, the show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers, and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place of my guests' choosing, as they all arrive to share with us their stories of distinction and genius. And I'm absolutely enthralled, actually, to welcome Nigel Risner, who I saw speak at the Entrepreneurs Convention on the 29th of September. You're enigmatically known as the Chief Zookeeper. It's a jungle out there. We're all a bunch of animals, and thanks for showing up, you bunch of filthy animals, as one quote from a film has it. And Nigel, I know will unpack why it's a jungle out there, and why, very enigmatically, your main cut and thrust is that you are the chief zookeeper. So without further ado, ladies and ginmin min, it is my great delight, pleasure, and privilege to welcome Nigel Risner. You're all clapping. I know that, but for you, Nigel, this is one.

SPEAKER_01:

What a wonderful, wonderful introduction. How kind of you.

Chris Grimes:

Well, you're very welcome. And I came and shook your hand after I'd seen you speak. And I say again enigmatically, you were fantastic at the Entrepreneurs Convention. Just to blow some happy smoke at you, of all the speakers that I saw over the two-day event, uh, you were my favourite. And uh you also said yes straight away as soon as I shook your hand. Not everybody does, but I noticed obviously you don't say yes to everything, but I I loved the the immediacy of the exchange. You said, Do you want me to be in your podcast? Yes. And then here we are, um a couple of months later. And your your hit rate is astonishing, because every time I've been in touch with you and we've we've been, you know, tending uh the journey to now, you've either been about to go on stage or about to go coaching. I think my assumption, and you can put me right, is you've probably done about thirty different speaking events since I saw you two months ago.

SPEAKER_01:

In nine different countries.

Chris Grimes:

Which is I congratulate you and how astonishing. And I just need to give the the final bit of happy smoke before I promise to bring you in, because I'm really, really looking forward to curating you through the uniqueness of my storytelling structure. You're about turning limited people limitless. And uh rather humorously, I like to think I said that's not just a change of company status in what you bring about. But um as you said, nine different countries. So just talk us through what you've been up to in the last month.

SPEAKER_01:

So we've been to San Diego, we've been to Orlando in Florida, we've been to Latview, we've been to Scotland, uh, and some other places which I'm not going to mention, but I've been around, and obviously in the UK, and audiences from three to three thousand, and lots of fun, as well as coaching, and being a grandpa to four amazing grandchildren and a husband through a wonderful wife. We've been married 40 years. Congratulations. A lot, a lot has been going on.

Chris Grimes:

And you mentioned from three to three thousand. Uh, I'm just gonna hook on that because what's really brilliant about you is you drive everyone from CEOs to school children to ignite excitement and action in their life. So it's a really powerful imperative. We're all a bunch of animals, we all know that all behaviour reverts back to the playground, transactional analysis and all that she blang. But yeah, I'm just gonna love you talking about your animal kingdom as you describe it as being.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's not even just so much about the animal kingdom, it's about recognising that people are different, not difficult. But what we've decided is people are very difficult. And if you really realize that, you know, animals in the wild are not that complicated, they have a role, people know what it is. There are zoos, there's you know, I've done many safaris. That if you understand what people do, what people like, and then you look after them in their style, yeah, it is not complicated to work with animals.

Chris Grimes:

Yes. And then I love how you how uncompromisingly direct you've been credited as being as well. You're not there just to sort of blow happy smoke at your audiences, you're there to really get up in people's grills and challenge us as to how to get the best from relationships around us within the zoo of mankind.

SPEAKER_01:

My life changed when I stopped being applause-oriented and becoming results-oriented. And what tends to happen is what we want is instant gratification. Well, after 27 years of speaking and speaking to nearly four million people, I have a number of testimonials, and I know there's two percent of the world who hate me, and I'm okay with that now because it doesn't matter what you do, there's gonna be a group of people that don't like what you do.

Chris Grimes:

I love the maths of that. I love the maths.

SPEAKER_01:

Leah Bascalia said, you know, if you love apple pies and someone gives you a sorry, if you if you if you love apples and someone gives you a pear, it doesn't mean it's bad, it's just not what you like. And I appreciate that not everyone is gonna get me, and I'm okay with that now because I'm a bit more mature. Not yet mature, but I'm getting more mature.

Chris Grimes:

And I love the fact that you've tuned into it's only, I mean, what a hit rate if only 2% of the world hate you. You're ri I mean, most of the world love or dine out on the marmite effect, you're either gonna love me or hate me, and that's more of a 50-50 dynamic. I saw a speaker yesterday, actually, who was as heralded as being Marmite, and actually, in truth, I in the end I thought they were a bit vegemite. I was a bit meh by the end of it, which is just an opinion. But I love the fact that we need lovers, we need haters, and and super fans and no fans is fine.

SPEAKER_01:

But it's not even just about super fans. There are some you're you're I'm responsible to the audience, I'm not responsible for the audience. So I appreciate I'm gonna share a simple message, and it's pretty simple. Some people won't get it, some people don't want to get it, and there are some people who'd much rather be right than happy. Well, I've got the time to play with that because it doesn't matter what you do, they've got their own personal story, or they're going through their own personal tragedy, and everyone's got their own story. I've just made a decision. If I can get a majority of people not only understanding what I've shared, but taking action, I've done my job.

Chris Grimes:

I love that. Also, the Animal Kingdom shtick, if I may describe it as that, you know, the best communicators, the best stand-up comedians, you know, a lot of people have a shtick. How long in your your wealth of experience have you decided that it's about animalistic behaviour as the analogy that you love, which I think is really powerful?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, so I didn't do it for about five years, but I was at Whipsnate Zoo doing a presentation for the British Junior Chamber of Commerce, and I saw this guy with a large trestle table and you know, with about nine different buckets labelled different foods for the elephants, for the lions, for the monkeys, and all of a sudden, you know, you get this light bulb moment where you're thinking, this guy knows what food to feed the animals to get the best results for them. And there's lots of communication tools out there, which are brilliant, by the way. There are lots. And whether it's Myersbrings, Belvin, Disc, Insight, Colour, there's thousands. The tragedy is, and I've trained a lot of speakers who've done lots of courses, about halfway through a course, I'll often say to them, Do you know my style? And their reply will be, I know mine. Well, unless you're talking to yourself, it doesn't matter who your style is. Yes. You know, I need to understand that you, Chris, are a dolphin with elephant tendencies, okay? So you're kind, you're gentle, you're caring, but there's a bit of a there's a bit of um, what's the word I'm looking for? Um, precision that the way you work and you have a structure and a system. I don't work that way. I'm right off on the skinny branches. So as long as we both understand that you need to ask me some simple questions and I need to give you some detailed responses, we're gonna be there. And I'm tragedy, most people don't listen very well.

Chris Grimes:

You listen brilliantly because I must say, I'm gonna take a compliment from you describing me exactly as I would perceive myself as a dolphin, having listened to you a dolphin with elephant tendencies. By the way, that's why I I took the decision. You may not have had the time, you've been incredibly busy. I sent you a podcast I'd been on recently with a beautiful animalistic title called Giraffes Don't Eat Steak, which is a beautiful of itself animalistic analogy, because if you go to a field of giraffes with a steak, they're not going to even give you a second glance.

SPEAKER_01:

But the lions will eat it. And you know, the tragedy is what we do is if we've only got steak, we give steak to all the animals, including the dolphins and the elephants and whatever. And then you wonder why your message only lands by 25%. If, by the way, all 25%, which is 100% of the lions, get it, which they won't. So now you've delivered prime steak to your four animals or six animals, whatever, however you choose, and 90% of that percentage will get it. So my math isn't that good. But 90% of 25% is about 21, okay, or 22. So of the 100%, you've got 22% response, and we think that's good enough because we've given them prime steak at the top end of the market. 75% then are part of the what I call the BMW club. They pitch moon and wine, but they're not doing. And you have to then appreciate. So was it my delivery? Well, your delivery was great, but you just delivered the wrong stuff. I don't want steak, I need bananas. You know, you want tuna fish and occasionally vegetation, and the lions want raw meat. It's not that complicated. And I'm so if you look behind me, you'll see what people give me, okay?

Chris Grimes:

They give you chocolate.

SPEAKER_01:

If you're not watching this live or you're hearing it, there's lots of bars of Campbell's chocolate with zookeeper, chief zookeeper, number one zookeeper, mentor, um, those monkeys, whatever. I I know what I like, but giving me um dark chocolate and giving me a bottle of champagne is wasted. I don't do that. But too often, what we do is we make it simple and we buy a box of something, and we wonder why half our teams aren't happy.

Chris Grimes:

And you know what, as a parallel universe, recently at an exhibition for one of my series strands called Legacy Life Reflections, I was exactly pondering what to give people, and because it's a it's about recording life stories of those that we love for posterity, I thought about grandads, nanas, uncles, aunts. I ended up giving away either Werther's originals, mint humbugs, or Devon Toffies, because that's the that's the nom nom nom stuff that your nan, your grand, your uncle Fan, you know, your Aunt Fanny would have had back in the day. Suddenly I struck on it because it was simple, and I I did notice that people give you your own zookeeper emblazoned dairy milk chocolate. I mean, are you sponsored by Cadbury's because you should be?

SPEAKER_01:

I I'm not, and what's interesting is that one of the finest chocolates in the world is Ladderac, who are a client of mine, and you know, but it's it's not as easy to get, so I'm trying to make my life easier for my clients.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because sometimes what you have to do is you have to make yourself one of the reasons why people like working with me, and a bit like you know, you asked me a question, I said yes, as long as I'm in the country and I've got some time, I'll do it. Because the question is say no to the good, but yes to the great. And I listened to what you said, and I thought, this sounds interesting, and we're running out of timings work, the answer is yes. I don't say yes to everything for a number of reasons, but I like to make life really simple. So even when we spoke at the conference that you heard me speak at, I finished it within seven seconds of my allotted time. Because there's a conference to run, there's lunch to be served, there's organizers, there's things to be done. Most speakers think they're bigger than the event.

Chris Grimes:

Completely, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Be kind, be nice, be gentle, deliver what you say and get off.

Chris Grimes:

And of your own methodology, you are you are the great you're the monkey in the jungle. You kept saying again and again, I am the monkey.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's because I I just need basic stuff. If you give me a detailed pro program, I'm never gonna read it. And it's not that I don't want to read it when I don't have time and I can't be asked. But I tell people in advance, just all I want is a breathing audience and a and a cup of or a glass of water or a Diet Coke on stage. I don't think that's that complicated. If there's a laptop, that's a bonus. If there's a flip chart, that's a bonus. I've written on many hotel walls and been kicked out of a few. I just want to make the job simple for people so there's no excuses.

Chris Grimes:

I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

And if I may remember one of my lines when I first started, I said, I'd much prefer for you to take notice than take notes. Yes. And the reason I said that is I want people to be present, and we'll talk about that a bit later on.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But people are so busy writing that they're not really in the room and they're not focused. Yes. And they're never going to do anything with the notes. Absolutely not. They're going to put them on the shelves, and we call that shelf development. It's never worked, it won't work. Why are you doing it? Lovely.

Chris Grimes:

And just one other thing before I get you on the open road of the structure of the show. I've been really excited about riffing with you about animals because I use my own construct when I'm speaking, which is about dolphins, sharks, jellyfish, and goldfish, which could be familiar to you. It's a it's a dominance versus warmth axis. Uh, and then the other thing I love riffing on is about whether somebody's a crocodile or a hippo. Everyone, is that one you've come across as well?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, yeah, but I'm gonna I'm gonna give you just something about hippos in a second. I'm gonna look for something while we're talking, because there's a great line about hold on, I've got to find it, it will just make you laugh what hippos stand for. Um may I Okay, are you ready for this? Yes, yes. Hippos stand for the highest paid person's opinion.

Chris Grimes:

Exactly that. And we all we all defer to the hippo.

SPEAKER_01:

Get ready for this a zebra. Zero evidence, zero evidence, but really arrogant.

Chris Grimes:

Heavens to Betty Boothroids. We all know some zebra.

SPEAKER_01:

Is a rhino, really here in name only.

Chris Grimes:

Just awesome. So listen, shall we do this?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, go for it.

Chris Grimes:

So there's gonna be, as usual, um, I'm about 270 episodes in, and I'm gonna announce live on air as well. Um, just about three days ago, um, when I started this five years ago, on day one, I said the day I can get Michael Palin to say yes, we all know that I've made it. Uh Michael Palin said yes two days ago. So there's something conspiring in the universe. But anyway, there is going to be a clearing, a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 54321. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels. Good luck working out the acronym of squirrels, and it's also going to be a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton, and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, Nigel Risner, motivational speaker, extraordinaire. Where is what is, first of all, a clearing for you? Where would you say you get clutter-free, inspirational, in the jungle of your life to get inspired?

SPEAKER_01:

So I get inspired two ways. I like walking my dog early in the morning in a field because that everyone knows my dog. I have a dog, if you can imagine me as a dog, I have a dog just like me. He's a bit a bit crazy. And and he has I I call it a medical condition called one in 28 itis. And the 28th dog, he can just lose his shit with. And it doesn't matter who the dog is, even if he knows them, he can just sometimes lose it. But the other place that I really get clarity, I go on holiday every year to the same hotel in Greece. And for 12 days, I'm treated like royalty, but it's not as much I'm treated like royalty. I don't have to do anything. I also work with the team when I'm there, but I can just sit and do nothing, and I don't have to go anywhere, and I don't have to visit anybody, and I don't have to make myself whatever. And even though 70% of the the re the guests all come back, and I know lots of the people, people know I'm my chair's just gonna turn as I face the sun. And I need that what I call doing nothing time, and and I'm good at doing nothing, or I'm good at being phenomenally busy. So I'm at this oxymoron of I'm either manic or I'm brilliant at doing nothing.

Chris Grimes:

And again, there's a parallel universe. When I first went to um the Central School of Screech and Trauma at my drama school where I did my teaching degree, I was analogised to being like an untrained labrador, as in I'd come in lots of energy, lick your face, hump your leg, do a shit in the corner, get bored and go somewhere else. So we have a parallel universe. I can imagine you as a dog, and I thank you for that one in 28th. I just that's such a great story. Of one in 28 dogs he'll lose his shit with. What's your dog's name?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, his name is Alfie, and he's a labradoodle, and he's ten and a half, and people think he's two, and he is just amazing. But he does, I mean, but and what is more amazing is he's amazing with my four grandchildren. So I have four grandsons, and sometimes the dog just leaves the room, it's just that too much. But he's amazing with them, which is all you've ever hoped for if you're gonna have a dog be good with the kids.

Chris Grimes:

And I I love the Greek retreat as well. You've got a choice now. We're either in the field with the dog, and I I think we've dealt with what what's their name again? Alfie. So may I may we go on the Greek retreat? It's your choice, but I'm I'm trying not to drive you. Go for it. So we're on a Greek veranda, and just to sort of put a flag in the sand, where are we in Greece?

SPEAKER_01:

Not to give away your hotel of choice, but uh we're in Lindos, in Rhodes. Love that. And I need sun. I I've never been skiing because I just don't like the cold. Um, but I love sun and I can sit in it from eight in the morning till seven at night very happily when people say, I can't believe you're still sitting, because I'm good at just being. Your self-just confuses people.

Chris Grimes:

Self-awareness is the holy grail. I love how self-aware you are. That is indeed wisdom. You know what you want, you want what you know, and I'm gonna sit there and face the sun for those many hours. I love that. So we're in Lindos, in your wonderful veranda of choice. I'm assuming it's a veranda we're sat at, or could we be anywhere?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I'm by the pool. By the pool. Have to be near water, have to be near water.

Chris Grimes:

And anything in your hand like a peanut calandra or no, no, I don't drink, I just drink diet coke and water. Love that. So we furnished you with Diet Coke water. There we are, by the pool. I'm now gonna arrive, which I hope isn't too irritating, with a tree in your clearing, and I'm gonna shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out. Heard you like these apples, and then this is where you've been kind enough to have thought about, or maybe you haven't, which is what I really enjoy about your spontaneity. You're gonna have taken five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you, Nigel Risner, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention and borrow from the film up, that's when the oh, squirrels come in. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you, we couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. It's not Memory test, so I'm going to curate you through the sort of downhill slalom ski of the episode. Um, so first of all, four things that you'd like to say have shaped you, Nigel.

SPEAKER_01:

So I left school just before I was 16, and I knew that education wasn't for me going further on to do A levels, etc. And I've been blessed to meet very good people and be known. Sorry, I've been blessed to meet very nice people and have people who've known me who've introduced me to the right people, and that's one of the things that shaped me. So not even networking, having a presence that people knew what I was about was one thing. Great first Jacob. And at the age of 12, I was going with the owner to Cash and Carrie to organise what was needed, and I was trusted at a very young age to be able to run a shop. The third thing was before I I had a major, major car accident when I was 15. And I was off school for nearly four and a half months. But when I came back, everyone else had done a careers development, and my careers master, Mr. Calagaroo, got me a job interview with a guy called Conrad Morris. And I went to see him for the day and realized that that's what I wanted to be doing, was being in commercial work as such. And he said, as soon as your last exam was finished, I'd like you to start working with me. My last exam was the 15th of June, and I started working on the 16th of June, and I wasn't 16 until the 2nd of July. And within minutes, I understood business. I understood what a phone was, I understood what a custom was, I understood what a client was. And then when I just went after I was when I was 16, I joined a finance company that arranged commercial finance, and within three months I needed an assistant, which was pretty difficult when you're only 16. Um, but my boss knew that I had a flair for something. So at a very young age, I knew really what I wanted to do. And my hero was Sir John Harvey Jones. And if you remember the program Troubleshooter, I always had a dream that I'd be able to go into a business, be paid as I'd be paid to spend a day working on someone's business, and ten years later, or it was even less than that, I was doing exactly that in a corporate clothing business. Someone paid me to spend a day walking around a factory.

Chris Grimes:

With that beautiful, super objective perspective, Mr. Fixter, the monkeys in the building, to put things right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

Chris Grimes:

Great. These are phenomenally clear, succinct shape ages. Thank you. I think we could be on to shapeage number three now.

SPEAKER_01:

Sorry, I thought I was that different to what I just did.

Chris Grimes:

No, um, after four different things that have shaped you. So have we done four already? Yeah, we've done four. Get in. That's even quicker than I thought. Love that. It's my structure, I know what I'm doing. And now, uh, three things that inspire you, Nigel, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, three things that inspire me. One was my father. My father was an optician who unfortunately died last year. But as an optician, he used to send reminders out when he was busy. And the idea that he never then was not busy is because when he was busy, he sent reminders out, so that when the slow at times he'd have people coming in to see him. That was that was one of the things that inspired me. My mother, who was an absolute lunatic but and was slightly not well, but was very hard-working and pushed me beyond belief and allowed me to leave school because she saw something in me which I didn't see in me, and and that's just unbelievable. And the third person inspires me, and I and it's both my kids, but my son Daniel has mild cerebral pausy, and what he has achieved when there's been many odds against him for doing things, you know, he drives, he's got a family, he runs a phenomenal speaker agency, and there are things that he does that just baffle me. And I'll give an example for you. He does his shoelaces up one-handed. Wow, you try that. And so I've got two amazing kids, Sasha, who now works with me and is a casting agent. But Daniel just does some things that just uh amaze me at times. I you know, I will come on to tennis in a minute, but he plays amazing tennis and he throws the ball up with his left hand and serves with his left hand.

Chris Grimes:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

And and instead of moaning about his cerebral palsy, he embraces his cerebral pausy.

Chris Grimes:

Yes. And I have met him very briefly, and its leading authorities is his Speaker Bureau, is that right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, he runs the UK and Ireland. Uh his head office is in Washington, ironically, which is where he is right now in the States.

Chris Grimes:

And he did the main booking for the Entrepreneurs' Circle, Entrepreneurs Convention, I'm gathering.

SPEAKER_01:

Nearly all the speakers for that event that you saw me at.

Chris Grimes:

He is indeed phenomenally gifted. Uh, wonderful that you mentioned Sasha as well, fantastic. Are you uh do you have brothers and sisters as well? We haven't covered.

SPEAKER_01:

I have an older brother, much older brothers, I like reminding him.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Who we work together and now he does his own thing. Um, but Andrew is my older brother by two and a half years.

Chris Grimes:

And congratulations also on your four lovely grandchildren that you mentioned as well already. Uh and now we're on to uh your squirrels. Uh again, great animalistic analogy here. What are your two monsters of distraction? This is borrowed from the film Up, where the dog goes, Oh, squirrels. So this could be Alfie going, squirrels. So what are your two monsters of distraction?

SPEAKER_01:

Anything that catches my eye that thinks it might be more interesting. And and I have a habit of talking to people, and then in the corner of my eye, I think I need to speak to that person. And I have to be really aware because I spend a lot of time telling people to be focused, but I can very easily lose focus when I think, oh, I need to speak to that, and I kind of do this, which is slightly weird.

Chris Grimes:

You're your own you're your own squirrel, then I love that. There's a squirrel within ready to get distracted.

SPEAKER_01:

Um and I think the other is that there are times when I just can't be asked. And it it's a it's a problem because there are things that I need to do, and I just can't be asked, and so you avoid doing it, and it's a squirrel in my life, in your words. It's a bit like paying VAT. You know, you you know you've got to do it, so then you avoid it, and then you wait, and then you only get one, you get a reminder that you know you've got it, you've you've messed up, and if you do it a second time, you get a 10% fine of your VAT. Well, I've only ever had that once, thankfully, in 30 years. Yeah. But it's like, why would you wait that long? You know it's got to be paid.

Chris Grimes:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

And there are times I'm a bit silly, yeah, and that's where the monkey comes out of me, where I avoid doing things that it will take me two minutes to do.

Chris Grimes:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

I get in my own way if that if that's the if that's the actual wording you'd look, you'd like to look at it.

Chris Grimes:

Sort of an nth degree of self-sabotage in there that can occasion the surface. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Um may may I also ask you, and you can say this is you you did mention in terms of a health scare you had recently when I first met you, that you'd recently had a well, I hope it wasn't too recently, but you'd had an aneurysm on stage, which sounded extraordinary. Are we allowed to talk about that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, we can. So in 2016, I did 162 events in like 40 countries. And when you do that many events, and sometimes two countries in a day, so I did Prague in the morning and like Stockholm in the afternoon. And eventually your brain just says, that's just too much.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I was so I it what there were two parts of the story. I went to Cumbria to do an event, and when I got out of the train station, I felt like someone had hit me over the head with a hammer. But I just thought I had a really bad headache. And then about a week later, I was working with the chief exec group in the recruitment business, and in the morning, apparently, I was very good. I have no memory of the whole of this day, by the way. In the morning, apparently, I was very good, and then in the afternoon, I repeated the same story seven times.

Chris Grimes:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

And asked the audience if anyone knew where I'd parked my car if they had my car park ticket, and I then drove home, ringing my PA up about 12 times, asking for a postcode. The following day, I get a phone call from the organizers asking if I'm feeling better, and I replied, than what? Because I didn't know I'd been ill the day before, and that was my big brain aneurysm moment. I then went to the hospital, literally, it's nine years ago today, literally.

Chris Grimes:

Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01:

And I was kept in for the whole of Christmas, and I had a month's bed rest. Um, and I I was seconds away from it, the whole thing exploding. And so I had a brain aneurysm, and then in 2019, I then had a phone call for my brain surgeon saying, I think we might need to do some more surgery. My reply was, if you're ringing me at quarter to eight at night, I think we need to drop the word might, and let's just organise a date. And because I was on tour, I was doing a tour of Europe at the time, we had to plan my dates of coming in, and I was told I had about four weeks to work it out. So I spent three weeks travelling, went to the States, and then I came back, went straight to hospital. And my son was getting married in the August, and so we had to try and work it out that if I went in in May, I should be fine by August. And I was, and then touch wood, as we say, I've been very good, other than suffering from terrible anemia. So I I'd like I'm gonna share this with you, Chris, and you'll laugh. Can you imagine what I'd be like if I had some energy? Good, but I mean my energy levels are very, very low, and so I have iron infusions a lot. Um, but at the moment I'm on a real high.

Chris Grimes:

Yes. And I'm so happy that you're the right way up, and what an extraordinary, extraordinary story, and and thank you for sharing that too. The other slight interest in sharing that story is this show gets pulled into the UK health radio space, which then gives this a global audience reach across 54 countries of about 1.4 million listeners. So, what you're saying, uh, and also are you kinder to yourself in terms of work rate now because of that?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so you would think so. I was very blessed when something occurred which was called COVID. And I say that because by so I had surgery in May 2019, by February 2020, I'd done another 20 countries, and because what we think is we're invincible and it's gonna be okay, and COVID probably saved my life because I was then forced on the 23rd of March to stop, and I had like 80 engagements cancelled within seconds, and I did lots online, as you can imagine, and I'd never done a podcast or Zoom or WebEx or Teams, and I had to get a 14-year-old to try and teach me about what button to press and then share slides, and I'm still shit at that bit, but I you know, but I do it occasionally, but it's like I'm here, I'm talking to you, but there's something going on over here, then I need to move another button to share slides, then I can't find my face, I don't know where I am.

Chris Grimes:

I've got your face, I've got your face, it's there.

SPEAKER_01:

But if I then had to share slides with you, it's like I gotta press a button here, let's avoid that. So I often send my slides to clients and let them organize it. Yes, that COVID nearly saved my life in that sense. Yes, because for three months, and I joke about it, I told my wife, I don't think I've ever slept with the same person for a hundred days. You know, I'd never been in the same bed with my wife for that many nights, and it came out slightly wrong, as you can imagine, when I said that. But COVID really was a blessing for me, yes, because it took a you know, even though I went to Greece and I went to the Seychelles with an Iranian client and I did lots of work, and I went to Lithuania, which was bizarre. I did Lithuania through COVID, 600 people in the room all wearing masks. Okay, get ready for this, spread out in a big auditorium, then there was a coffee break, and 500 people were on top of each other without masks, which didn't make any sense at all.

Chris Grimes:

Um there's a glitch in the universe.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I had shin splints, didn't even know I'd had it, so I was like immune. But if I looked at that year, that started to bring me to slow down in 21, 22, and then the last four years I've learned to say no, not as often as I should. Yes, but I I'm not doing as many events. The tragedy is I still love what I do, and I say the tragedy is because I'd do every event if I could, yeah, but there's a limit to what I can do because I've got grandchildren and I've got a wife who'd like to see me at home occasionally, and I've just started playing paddle, which is bizarre, and and I'll come on to that why that's bizarre.

Chris Grimes:

Oh, and I hope we're gonna talk about tennis too. I've started doing paddle too. And and did you know that the arc towards death is ping-pong, tennis, paddle, and then pickleball, then death, just so you know that's an arc.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we're not playing pickle, I can't stand the noise of that ball. Um, but it's but it's just bizarre that I'm now trying to find a uh a quality of life. I'm not doing as well as I should because I I love what I do. But December, I love because I quit I don't do after dinner speaking, so I virtually just do coaching, see my clients, do a bit of work. I've got a few engagements, yes, but nothing like October, November. So I'm very pleased about that.

Chris Grimes:

And is your event in Greek often your own company retreat? Is that why you go there?

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, no. I go on holiday there, but I just work with a hotel staff when I'm there.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, your thing. Uh thanks for that slight segue. Now we're on to the final part of the tree shaking, which is a quirky or unusual fact about you. I know the annualism could have been that qualification, but a quirky or unusual fact you'd like to share that we couldn't possibly know about you until you told us.

SPEAKER_01:

So at 18 and a half, my boss asked me to stay on in his company. And if I stayed for a year, he'd give me a year tobacco. I was too immature to know what that meant. And I went to Israel to do hotel management, that's what I thought I'd love to do. And within about three weeks, I realized that wasn't what I wanted to do. So I started playing tennis, coaching tennis, and umpiring. And within a year and a half or two years, and my hair was out here, by the way. If I get a chance to show you a picture, which I'll I'll look for in a second, you'll laugh because I didn't have my hair cut for nearly two years. And when I tell you, when I show people my picture, which I'm just gonna find for you this second.

Chris Grimes:

I'm thinking Art Carfunko, and or or even bigger afro at the moment, it's all good.

SPEAKER_01:

Bigger, bigger, no bigger than that, and we are apologies, we are there.

Chris Grimes:

Samuel L. Jackson in pulp. Oh, that's a bit Samuel L. Jackson in pulp. Yeah, that's great. What a wow! If anyone watching, that is a wow moment.

SPEAKER_01:

And I then looked after the Israel Junior tennis team for three years when they came to Wimbledon and was and I got a player's pass at Wimbledon for three years.

Chris Grimes:

Wow. Could we play tennis someday? Because I I am I play tennis in a place in Bristol called Windmill Hill, and I'm the current Windmill Hill B. See what we're doing there. Champion, thanks very much.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm delighted to. Um one of the things I and I've now started playing paddle. We have a group called Paddle for Olders. And uh, if there's a drop shot, we all go, not for me.

Chris Grimes:

I'd have got that in 1989, but not today, dude.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, but what's interesting is I never ever played doubles when I played tennis. Yeah. So playing paddle with a partner is quite weird. Yeah. Very often I'm doing this to him. I think that's yours.

Chris Grimes:

After you, sir. No, no, after you. The quintessential British game. Love that.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, so I but what I the reason I wanted to share that bit was because I was coaching kids, realizing that coaching was the future without knowing it was my going to be my future. Because when you coach a kid in tennis, a lot of it is about playing the ball. And I don't know if you've read or seen Roger Federer's great videos. Yes. Where he talks about he may have won 82% of his games, but he's only won 54% of his points, and it's learning to win the point or play the point, and then let go of that point and play the next point. So when I talk about being in the room, which is what I'm known for, that you need to be where you need to be and play where you are and not worry about what's just gone on or worry about the next point, and that's why tennis, in a way, is a very easy game. You just got to play the point, and the average rally, unless you're on the Dow, doesn't last that long.

Chris Grimes:

And you you you should have written the inner game of tennis, then, because of course that's where the world of coaching has been.

SPEAKER_01:

Um well, Tim Galloway's book, Yeah. The inner game of tennis is pretty simple, but golf and tennis, golf is even easier in a way, by the way, because you've got a little white ball, an enormous stick, and if you're right-handed, the target's always to your left. All you've got to do is hit about 150 yards three times, and you're on the green. The problem is most people are so focused on the sand and the water and everything else that they whack the shit out of this little ball, hoping something's gonna happen. All you've got to do is just be low and slow. Most of life is exactly the same. Yes. Turn up, be professional, smile, deliver what you say you're gonna deliver, and go home.

Chris Grimes:

That's like the acting thing of just say a lines, don't bump into the furniture.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly right.

Chris Grimes:

Love that. That was the most monumentally beautiful shaking of your tree. We're out the canopy of your tree now. Now we stay in the clearing, which is still in Greece by the pool, die coop, water, and now we're gonna talk about alchemy and gold. So when you're at purpose and in flow, here's a bar of gold for you. What are you absolutely happiest doing, Nigel Risner, in what you're here to reveal to the world?

SPEAKER_01:

Sharing with an audience that say it can't be done, that it can be done, and that sometimes it can't be done, and that's also okay. So you can't have everything in life because where would you put it, as Steve Wright would say. But what you can do is give it your absolute best and know that day you left nothing behind. So I talk about, and you're like this, 211 versus 212. Now, if you don't know the acronym about this, have you ever boiled a kettle of water, Chris?

Chris Grimes:

Uh I have.

SPEAKER_01:

Have you ever watched a kettle of water boil?

Chris Grimes:

I have.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the second before it boils, it gets to 211 degrees Fahrenheit. That is very, very hot, but it is not boiling. Would you agree?

Chris Grimes:

I would, yep.

SPEAKER_01:

The second it boils, it's what I call 212 degrees Fahrenheit. 211 is great, and most of what you and I do, I'm gonna be honest with you, is what I call a 211 day. And we do a great day, but I'll go back to something you said. Something you did with Michael Palin to get him to come on your show was a 212 day.

Chris Grimes:

It bloody was, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

But that's not every day. You know, you meet you you meet the milkman, you go out, you do your job, and you do whatever, and you do a very good job, but that's called 211. But occasionally, five or six times a year, you'll do a 212. You've got no idea why the interview went so well, you've got no idea why Michael said yes, you've got no idea why, but it all your ducks are in a row. And I aim to play always 211, but there are times when I'm just in the moment when I'm not looking for the audience, I'm just in flow, and I'm working for a cause and not applause. Does that make sense? It completely date, and people go to me, unbelievable what you did. We need you to come back with nine other teams. And I've just had that with a major firm of estate. Where something that I did was amazing, even though I thought I've done that many times. But I'm now on my seventh new client with them. And if I was to look back at the video, and I sometimes can, I can't see what I was doing different. But my energy was definitely different, and I probably turned up feeling different. And I've lost some weight since I did Entrepreneurs. I've lost a stone and a half. I've got another stone and a half to go. But that's not what it was because I performed well when we did that speech. Yeah. But the game is to see when you have a 212 day, what was happening the day before, what was happening the hour before, because something changed in your approach, your language, and you weren't being what I call needy.

Chris Grimes:

And it affirms the notion of the level of presence, you know, how you show up. One of my favourite quotes about leadership is it's how you show up every single day. Wash, rinse, repeat, not in a dull way, but just keep keep showing up, be where your feet are, aspire to be present. And and I I love I've never heard the 211, 212 tilt, and I think it's profound.

SPEAKER_01:

So occasionally I'll say to someone, how was your speech? And they'll go, it was really good. And a couple of my pals know they'll go 211 or 212.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And occasionally I've done a 213, which is impossible if you've if you get my drift. And when you do a 213, you get 250 people come up to you, and you've sold 400, you've sold 400 books, and you get nine bookings before you've even left the room. Yeah. That's just unusual. That's not the way, you know, I've got agents that work with me, I've got people who are doing it, but it just goes ballistic, and I've had a few of those in 25 years.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. And um I almost don't need to ask this, but when was your last 212 day?

SPEAKER_01:

Um about four weeks ago with a firm of estate agents.

Chris Grimes:

And when was your last 213 day?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh about a year ago.

Chris Grimes:

I love the fact it's rare and it's beautiful and it's precious. Well, yeah, I mean that's alchemy and gold right there.

SPEAKER_01:

You couldn't have boiling every single day because then you know it's a bit like you need polarities between hot and cold. You know, not every single day is phenomenal because you wouldn't know what a bad day was, and sometimes it's good to have a bad day because then you recognise what good days look like.

Chris Grimes:

Which relates to you're only as good as your next interaction, and that's a good thing and a bad thing. Yes. Yeah. We we we fish in very similar waters. This is lovely stuff you're you're attesting to. And now I'm gonna award you with a cake, Nigel Risner. Uh, you get to put a cherry on the cake because this is the last storytelling suffused metaphor. But first of all, let's talk about cake. This is a dog's toy that I found that looks like a carrot cake. So I think Alfie might like this as well. Nom nom nom nom nom. So uh do you like cake, Nigel Risner?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh look at the shape. Look at the shape. There's the answer, okay?

Chris Grimes:

Well, you you like you you've you've laid off it for a bit because you've lost some weight. But what's your favourite cake?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh it's got it's got to be a chocolate uh a cold get rid of this, cold chocolate cake with cold custard. But lashings of custard. So when I go to a restaurant, I say, whatever you're thinking of serving me, it needs to be bigger.

unknown:

Yes.

Chris Grimes:

It makes also sense why you keep getting these uh Zookeeper embossed Cadbury slabs of chocolate as well. You you're a yes, milk chocolate, cold. Yes, very good.

SPEAKER_01:

You've remembered milk chocolate. Don't be born, Bill.

Chris Grimes:

And my my dad, very relatably, was Mr. Custard as well. Custard and a bit of ice cream on there. Anyway, nom nom nom nom nom. Uh so now you get to put a cherry on the cake with stuff like what's a favourite inspirational quote, uh, Nigel Risner, that's always given you succor and pulled you towards your future.

SPEAKER_01:

You have to do it by yourself and you cannot do it alone.

Chris Grimes:

Love that. Just say it again, I'm just deliberately reincorporating. I completely heard you.

SPEAKER_01:

You have to do it by yourself, and you cannot do it alone. So, for both of us, you can't do this without a guest, and I can't do this without a phenomenal moderator facilitator, which is what you are phenomenal at.

Chris Grimes:

I I'll take that happy smoke. That was very generous of you. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, no, because I've done lots of these where I think if the questions had to be better asked, you'd get I'd get a much better response. But if you ask me a shit question, you're gonna get a shit response.

Chris Grimes:

Earlier on today, when we both posted on LinkedIn, you s you rather enigmatically said, uh, who knows where this will go? And it just before that, Chris Grimes, who knows where this will go. I read that Chris Grimes, who knows where this will go, but then I thought, oh, he means Chris Grimes, who knows where this will go? And I'm loving where it's going.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not very good with punctuation, you see. But I I know what I meant it to say, and then anyone who knows me will go, Well, that's Nigel, he's a monkey.

Chris Grimes:

He's a monkey, he's a monkey, and we love him for that. Uh, with the gift of hindsight now, what notes, help, or advice would you give to a younger version of yourself, and you can decide how old you are when you arrive holographically to wrap yourself in your own arms and go, Nigel, and then what would you tell yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

Probably to have gone to university. Even though I had no idea what I was going to study. But going to university or doing further education gives you a framework and gives you some independence. So I left school before I was 16, and I my my tennis was my university bits. But I but I've been working since I've been 16, I'm 63 now, and that part of growing up in a different way, I think, would have serviced me better. The other thing that I think probably was, and I haven't shared this part, but I had a very successful commercial finance company, and I bought my partner out too early because of ego. And if I looked back now, I would not have bought him out and had venture capital in my business at 26. But what happens is we're too immature to understand what's going on. I didn't have a Nigel Bottrel in my life, I didn't have an entrepreneur's circle, I didn't have guidance and coaching then because I thought I knew it. And I was very good at what I was doing, but I was immature in my business savvy side of long-term future. So I wouldn't have bought my partner out when I did, because my whole life changed when you have venture capital in your business, because now you just work for venture capitalists.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah, yes, and you've you've got rid of that particular lodestone now by the sound of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I gave up my second finance company in 2000 to be full-time as a speaker. So I've been on the road since 1997, but full-time since 2000.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um it's not for everyone to be self-employed. There are great people to work for. But if you are going to have a successful business, you need to be really careful who you get into bed with.

Chris Grimes:

And to your point about I wish I'd gone to university, I was my instinct was to say au contraire, because your your graduation in the school of life beginning at 16 or a few years before at the age of 12 in the tuck shop. It's all it's all there. You are the the the archetypal entrepreneur right there because you're going to be self-sufficient and you're going to have stealth to be able to cope autonomously.

SPEAKER_01:

But what university can give you is a framework for three, four years with other people, off-site, off from parents, in a different town, and I was lucky that I went to Israel and that was my university as such. So I met a whole different group of people, and you know, I could have stayed out longer, but I was offered a phenomenal job back in the UK, and it was too good to give up without going into further stories about it.

Chris Grimes:

And and and may I ask, do you still have tennis connections? Because I've been trying to get I love tennis and I would love to get some big banger tennis players to have a chant with me as well. I was trying to get Andy Murray's mum to come in as a way to getting to Andy Murray's.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't, only because for the last 20 years I've virtually not played.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I pick up a racket occasionally to play with someone, but I'm always in coach mode.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And so my whole life I've been a coach, I've realized that I've always been watching other people. And you know, if you understand about tennis, it's no different to business. If you just change someone's grip a quarter of an inch, and you change their stance a quarter of an inch, and you get them to focus on the ball just for a quarter of a second longer, their lives change. Yeah. And if you look at people's businesses, if they just responded a second earlier and they checked their email a second longer, and they just were present, their business will change as well. So there's many parallel, and if you do the real sicky one, if you serve well, there's a good chance you win 50% of your points. So serve well, return phone calls, and don't try and win too quickly.

Chris Grimes:

And the beautiful parallel in servant leadership there, serve well, the clues in the wording there. Love that. Also, I love the fact you were in a game of tennising before it was in a game of tennis by Timothy Galway. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, he has a great formula, which is P equals P minus I, which you may have read or remember, which is performance equals potential less interference. So trust your team, let them get on with it, and don't interfere. Get out of their own way.

Chris Grimes:

Boom. We're ramping up shortly to talk about Shakespeare. Uh, in fact, sorry, I've forgot one other question. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given by somebody else?

SPEAKER_01:

Big dog, big fleas.

Chris Grimes:

I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_01:

Let that happen. So my coach was a guy called Jack Hanfield in America, who wrote the book Chicken Soup for the Soul. And I did a presentation and a few people weren't happy. Which is not understand which is not unusual the way I speak. And he said to me, if you put yourself out there and you're a big dog that you get big fleas, just remember that. And and again, one of those life-changing moments because Jack, you know, is a multi, multi-multi-millionaire, came to the UK, stayed with me, and shared a number of things that just were life-changing.

Chris Grimes:

Any examples of that? That's just such a good hook.

SPEAKER_01:

Be where you need to be and don't rush off.

Chris Grimes:

Boom. I know you can keep on giving. We're ramping up to talk about Shakespeare in a minute, but just before we get there, this is the pass the golden baton moment, please. Now we've experienced this from within. Who do you think, in order to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going, would you most like to pass the golden baton along to for me to get my little sort of teethy jowls into?

SPEAKER_01:

So who would I think would be great for you to interview? Is that what you ask?

Chris Grimes:

Yes, in a nutshell, but it it's invoking your network as to what I'm trying to achieve with the show and and who would be great for the audience, uh a compliment from you and great for me. It's winner-winner chicken dinner, to to unquote what the Jack Canfield uh book is.

SPEAKER_01:

Um I'm gonna ask you to ask me another question, I'm gonna come back to you on that because I want to make sure I give you the right person, not just some flippant answer.

Chris Grimes:

Thank you. And now, inspired by Shakespeare, all the world's steed and all the men and women merely players, this is because of my hacking background, and this is the actual book I bought myself. It's not a first folio. When I went to the Rissel Olvik Theatre School, this says 16986 in the margin. It's well thumbed, but this is to borrow from the seven ages of man's speech now to talk about legacy Nigel Risner. When all is said and done, how would you most like to be remembered?

SPEAKER_01:

That if you're in the room, be in the room. I want people to really think about that every time Nigel says I mean, I meet people 20 years on and I'm at the airport and someone go, Are you in the room? And I think, thank God you've heard something. And then forget the zookeeper stuff in that sense. Because if you're in the room, what tends to happen is you can then listen to communication. If you're in the room, you can really be present for people. It's about really understanding that life's not that complicated. We've just made it complicated to give us a great excuse not to succeed. So just be where you need to be. Love so right now, the most important person in my life is you, Chris, because you're here. In about half an hour, I'm sure a number of my grandchildren are going to come home. And then it's not that I don't love you, Chris, but you're not there. And what I don't want to be doing is saying, I wish I'd have done that with Chris, because then I'm not with my kids and I still haven't done the interview. And too often we're in regret or resentment, too late to change the facts. So acknowledge that you can do the best you can with the information you've got, and then just be where you need to be.

Chris Grimes:

And be in the room. Beautiful. We've got a very exciting moment now, which is show us your QR code, please. So um, for anyone watching, not just listening, uh, we're gonna first of all point to Nigel Risner's website, which unsurprisingly is nigelrisner.com. Uh, would you like to say anything about what we'll find there in you turning limited people limitless, Nigel?

SPEAKER_01:

You'll you'll see some videos, you'll see a little shop for books, and if they put in the code Pivot, they get a discount. I don't know how that works, but you put in the pivot code, P-I-V-O-T, and you get a discount. But you'll just see a reminder about, and there's a quiz, there's an animal quiz there. Do both quizzes because sometimes you you rely on the information. You know, you just want to make sure you get it right.

Chris Grimes:

Lovely. And then the other one is Nigel Risner connecting with him on LinkedIn. Here's the second show as your QR code, please, which is you being very dynamic. Words that whip up listening into action, energized and passionate. Boom, there you go. So this is for anyone. So, what can we find out about you on LinkedIn if we're just listening and not able to scan the QR code?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh occasionally I do little stories or thoughts for the day, the week, the month. And there's some interesting stuff there because I just share from the heart what I see and what I hear. And if I see something great, I I share it. And if I see something not great, I also share it. So I think people need to be called out.

Chris Grimes:

Love that. I'm I'm blessed to be on Facebook with you as well, and I do sincerely love all your posting. It is very on brand, it's very like that's what Nigel thinks today, which is great.

SPEAKER_01:

But I just do that, but I I do it because I my br my monkey brain goes, I've seen something. This is funny, or it's sad, or it's tragic, or it's heroic. You should have a look at this.

Chris Grimes:

Just a couple of announcements from me. If you'd like to talk about having uh a guest appearance in the show, too, my website is thegoodlistening to show.com. There's a quick sort of flash of the QR code, the clues in the title, thoodlistening to show.com. Also, very profoundly and uh preciously to me, I've got a very special series strand that I've been getting help with, Nigel Botrall, in his inner circle, entrepreneur circle, which is called LegacyLifereflections.com. Nigel, you mentioned your own dad passed a year ago, so did mine, but five years ago I recorded my dad Colin Grimes in the Halcyon Days of his 80s for something called LegacyLifereflections.com, which is using this unique storytelling structure, which has been likened to having a day spar for your brain in an oasis of kindness. Go me. But this uses this structure to record either your own story or the story of somebody really precious to you for posterity. That's legacylifereflections.com. Back to you, Nigel. Uh deliberately uh epic coachy question which I hope you'll enjoy now at the very, very end. As this has been your moment in the sunshine in the Good Listening to show Stories of Distinction and Genius, is there anything else, Nigel Risner, you'd like to say?

SPEAKER_01:

Just make sure that when you go to bed at night. Well, I'll give you a clue. There are four things you should do, and that is to drink, steal, swear, and lie. They're the four values I work to. So you need to drink from the fountains of knowledge that are constantly flowing into our books and libraries. All great leaders are readers. Swear to make this the best day of your life. You never know it's going to be a last. This is not a dress rehearsal for the rest of your life. Still a little time each and every day to something for someone else. Even when you know you won't get the credit, give us gain. But the big one is when you're lying down in bed tonight, thank your God that you've got dreams and you can make them possible.

Chris Grimes:

Ladies and gentlemen, this has been my privilege to speak to Nigel Risner, the chief zookeeper. Um, this could be a bit Captain's Log supplemental, but would you rather give me the golden baton pass offline? Do you want to think about it longer?

SPEAKER_01:

I prefer to, because I don't want to I don't want to just make up some name if that's okay with you.

Chris Grimes:

That's completely fine with me. So thank you so much for taking the time. I'm so happy you said yes, and thank you for anyone watching or listening. I've been Chris Grimes, but most importantly, this has been Nigel Risner. Anything else else you'd like to say, Nigel?

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for being a phenomenal facilitator because you've asked in a right in the right way to someone like me some easy questions.

Chris Grimes:

One chimp brain to another. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you very much indeed. Good night. You've been listening to the Good Listening to Show with me, Chris Grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how care of the series strands at the Goodlistening2Show.com website. If you'd like to connect with me on LinkedIn, please do so. And if you'd like to have some coaching with me, care of my personal impact game changer program, then you can contact me and also about the show at Chris at secondcurve.uk. On X and Instagram, it's at thatCrisbrimes. Tune in next week for more stories from the clearing. And don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.