The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

The Big ‘Ta-Da’ at Circle And Star! How Comedian Steve Furst Became a Theatre Impresario to Build a Creative Home in the Heart of Hampstead, as the New Artistic Director of the old Pentameters Theatre, now called Circle And Star

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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What if the next chapter of your creative life needed a stage you had to build yourself? We sit down with Steve Furst—comedian, actor, writer, and the man behind cabaret icon Lenny Beige—to share how an eviction notice on a beloved Hampstead room sparked Circle and Star, a new intimate theatre with a big heartbeat. From raising funds at speed to converting favours into an opening season, Steve reveals the practical playbook and the personal resolve it takes to bring a venue back to life.

We dig into the why and the how: why Hampstead lost something vital when its small spaces closed, and how a modern theatre can serve both the room and the wider world with streaming, multi-cam capture, and podcast capability. Steve talks candidly about the network that rallied—Matt Lucas, David Walliams, Marcus Brigstocke—and the decision to prioritise community over hype. He also shares the quieter habits that keep him match-fit: Transcendental Meditation as a reset that sharpens presence between shows, and a habit of listening forged by a childhood steeped in classical music.

Fans of character comedy will love the peek into his creative toolbox: the Hammond organ’s pull (Jimmy Smith, McGriff, McDuff), the communal charge of Northern Soul, and the power of unfussy documentaries that let real people speak. We explore Lenny Beige’s continuing life at Circle and Star, including a playful AI assistant voiced as Lenny’s mum, and a new project re-examining Fagin—juxtaposing Dickens and Lionel Bart while wrestling with identity and representation. It’s part love letter to small theatres, part field guide to building one, and wholly a testament to staying curious, collaborative, and brave.

If you care about live arts, new voices, and spaces that make talent possible, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves intimate theatre, and leave a review to help more listeners find the show. Your support keeps stages like this alive.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Chris Grimes:

And uh we're in. Welcome to an extraordinarily happy first here in The Good Listening to Show. I have the enigmatic polymath that is Steve First, who is, well, let's call you Stephen Jonathan First, born 3967. You'll know who he is. He's a legend. He's got a an alter ego, cabaret superstar, Lenny Beige. He is a legend, and his name is Lenny Beige. This is Steve First. You're a British comedian, actor, and writer. But that's not all. You're supremely polymathic in that you've also now become a theatre impresario. And I'd love to talk to you about Circle and Star, your new stage venture in taking over the tenureship and the artistic directorship of what was the Pentameters Theatre in Hampstead. So this is a first. It won't be very often you get thrashed at the beginning of a show, Steve. Watch your story. That's essentially what I'm up to with a good listening to show. You'll be able to come in in just a second, but this is a show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers, and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place as they all come to share with us their stories of distinction and genius. And Steve First, I first became aware of you many, many, many, many years ago when you were doing the orange adverts. The future's bright, the future's orange. But as we both know, the future's actually beige because it gets better every year. Welcome, welcome, thrice welcome to the good listening to show, Steve First.

SPEAKER_04:

Thank you very much, Chris. Thank you.

Chris Grimes:

So I know you're a busy man, but uh, how's morale and what's your story of the day, please, just to get us on the open road?

SPEAKER_04:

Morale is good. I'm all consumed with the opening of the Circle and Star Theatre.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Which has really this as a project only started to formulate in the summer. So from seeing a notice of eviction in the window of the old Pentameters Theatre, we will be opening in December, on December the 8th. So it's kind of uh been a frantic race to get a proposal together, to then raise a big chunk of money, to agree our lease, to ordering sound and lights, get a load of raft of technicians lined up to work there, and an amazing lineup uh for an opening season, anyway, which will which is kind of putting us on the map. And also a lot of those shows are fundraiser shows because we need to employ a general manager going forward, as I know you'll appreciate being a theatre runner yourself. So it's all very exciting. It's it's kind of new. A lot of these things are uh in my wheelhouse, as that expression goes, but there's many things that I'm learning on the job, and I'm sort of doing it single-handedly. I've got a creative director, Justin, who's working remotely, who did the website and the design. But in terms of the day-to-day booking stuff in and researching, and I mean, I have to say, ChatGPT has been an incredible tool. But it's yeah, it's tremendously exciting and is definitely a new chapter in my life.

Chris Grimes:

And becoming a sort of uh landed gentry and also a theatre impresario was not necessarily in your wheelhouse until now. No, but congratulations on what looks a phenomenal launch, new stage, new voices, new stories. And I'm I know you'll tell us all about this, but it's an intimate, independent Hampstead theatre where people, presence, and artistry shine. Yes, congratulations, what a great thing. I got in touch with you actually not knowing almost the day it was announced. I happened to get in touch with you because we'd been on Facebook. And I've been, you know, there's an expression, uh, what's meant for you won't pass you by. And then very spontaneously, because I do a lot of comedy improvisation with a mindset of yes and you know, if you say yes more, um windows of lubricated hinges can open. You immediately said yes, and I'm delighted to blow some extra happy smoke at you in your new creative endeavour, Steve First.

SPEAKER_02:

Pleasure.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. So at the very end, there is a break sighting show us your QR code section where I invite the audience to go exactly to Circle and Star. Just talk about the story of why it's called Circle and Star, first of all.

SPEAKER_04:

We didn't want anything to do with the previous residents who had been there 50 years and created an incredible legacy. We wanted to start afresh. And thinking of a name is a very difficult thing. And we spent about a week with many, many different ideas. And also, you have to kind of every good idea you have, you type it into various search engines, and then you go, there's 24 of them in the country already. So you need to make it easier for the search engines. And circle and star seemed innocuous enough, but obviously circle being all-inclusive, a star having you know connotations of theatrical connotations, and also the anacronym which arrived afterwards was C A S T, which we quite liked it being cast. That was a sort of fortuitous accident. So yeah, it's it's one of those things when you live with it for a few days and you play around with logos, and the logo tennis match was pretty intense. That looks too like the Pakistan flag. That looks too much like the old Russian flag. That looks like a star that's on an American tank. But we were up against the clock, so we kind of had to give ourselves a deadline in order to get the website up. And I'm very, very happy with it. I don't feel that I've had to compromise integrity or artistic license or artistic uh taste for it either. I'm very happy with it. And it looks great on things like mugs and laminates and all sorts of things. So very happy.

Chris Grimes:

And also, you know, having a large forehead, we can use it as advertising space as well. I mean, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03:

There you go.

Chris Grimes:

And what I love is the fact that you're actually bringing to bear decades, bringing laughter, wit, and heart to audiences everywhere, you personally, but then also applying that to the network that you've invoked to get this launch is a really exciting new beginning. And again, I congratulate you for it.

SPEAKER_04:

Thank you. I mean, whilst you know, whilst we are all about new voices, we are launching with older voices, but really just to say we've arrived. And yes, that's pulling on 30 years of being in the business and asking. I'm very I've always been very mindful of asking for favours. I'm one of those people that's like, oh, at a very last resort, I'll ask for a favour. Yes. And so I've kept a lot in the bank. And then when I went to people like Matt Lucas and Dave Williams and Marcus Brickstock and just said, look, can I? I'm not interested in money. I mean, I am, but I'm much more interested in you donating an evening of your time. And everyone I've asked said yes.

Chris Grimes:

One of my favourite adages is it's all about the relationship, stupid. And I love the fact that you've actually got a relationship bank tenured over 30, 35 years, maybe more of being in the business, is an extraordinary way to, you know, the time is right. And to quote Doctor's use, the time has come, the time is now. And it is a wonderful time to just pull those favours in.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, some would say I'm insane opening a theatre now in terms of people going out, and you know, a lot of places are closing, a lot of venues are closing. But I I feel that it because of where it is, uh, Hampstead doesn't really have a small theatre anymore. It lost the new end theatre, it lost the pentameters. So uh it is an affluent area. People do like to go out. So, you know, in terms of where it is and it's and its proximity to the tube, it would be insane not to. And yes, um, and also it's an area that I know very well, and I sort of grew up nearby, and my mum worked in Hampstead. So, you know, I it it feels like it's uh coming home in many ways.

Chris Grimes:

And may I ask, is it your stomping ground anyway? Do you live in Hampstead yourself?

SPEAKER_04:

I haven't I don't live there now. I'm about 15 to 20 minutes away on my life cycle. But I uh I have you know, it there are a lot of friends, family friends, you know, around that area, so it's very well known to me.

Chris Grimes:

So it's going to be an enigmatic squeak on your push bike each time you go and be at the venue.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Love that electric bike because it's all uphill. And I've thought at my age I need a little bit of comfort in my life.

Chris Grimes:

Because I'm still resisting the electric bike. In Bristol, I've got, you know, my bike is my freedom. I often say that. I also have a mantra, no hill in Bristol defeats me, but I I get hamstead is pretty mountainous.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm at the bottom, and then it's all the way to pretty much the highest point in London. So who knows? Maybe I'll get super fit next year. I'll be on my back on my little bike. But yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. It is my great delight, privilege to uh well curate you through the Good Listening to show Stories of Distinction and Genius. There is going to be a clearing, a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 54321. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton, and a cake. So it's absolutely all to play for. This is a podcast, a radio show, and a live theatre show as well. But anyway, here we go. Any questions before I curate you through the journey? No, I don't think so. Go where you like, how you like, as deep as you like. And this is to get the story behind the story of you, Steve First, as you launch into your new creative endeavor. Farvelous. So, yes, and as we go to print, I think it's from your you've got a wonderful counter counting down your launch pad of Circular Star. And just a few minutes ago, it was 38 days, four hours and 10 seconds to go. So this is an exciting Incoming. This is an exciting thing. So this is all set energetically in a clearing or serious, happy place of my guests' choosing. So, where would you say Steve first goes to get clutter-free, inspirational, and able to think? What I love about this is every guest interprets this differently. Steve First, what is your clearing, please?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean, I I I need a literal clearing. I do have a I do have a metaphorical clearing. I do, I got quite into transcendental meditation, so I've been doing that for a few years. And uh I suppose that is a clearing, but but it's clearing my mind in an actual clearing. And I live, I'm very lucky enough to live very close to Kensington Gardens, where I've lived pretty much near 40 years on and off. And there is a particular, in it is a clearing in in the you go through the trees, and there's a large area, and it looks back up to Kensington Palace. And I've said to my kids that when I'm cremated, this is where the ashes are to be scattered. I have a deep draw to this area and a deep pull to it, and that's only really got stronger. I moved away to villages, I moved away to the seaside, I've come back, and that's always my sort of happy place. I love the view. It's it's not like the top of Primrose Hill, which, if that's your happy place, that's brilliant, but you usually share it with 400 other people on any day. Yeah, and that comes with noise, and um, and a clearing should be exactly that. It should be a noise-free it's a pocket in central London, and to have the a pocket that's pretty quiet all the time is fantastic, and uh and it's never let me down yet.

Chris Grimes:

And may I congratulate you for your interpretation of that? Kensington Gardens in a clearing. When were you last there, Steve?

SPEAKER_04:

Yesterday. I love that. There's a Henry Moore sculpture. As you look down, there's a beautiful Henry Moore, and then beyond that, up the slope, is Kensington Palace. So it's quite a view, really. It's art, history, nature, all in one.

Chris Grimes:

May I just say nom nom nom nom nom nom nom. Thanks for unpacking that. That was beautiful. Also, I love the undercurrent of there being a sort of transcendental aspect to it as well, yeah, because of your spirituality and mindfulness and being present when you're there.

SPEAKER_04:

Game changer. That, by the way, that in the last three years has changed my life.

Chris Grimes:

Do you want to say a bit more about that?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, uh I you know, I tried to do various meditations, and then a few years ago, I was kind of I was just sort of kicking around on the internet, and uh a David Lynch Foundation thing came up. And of course, I knew he had a he was into transcendental meditation, and then I watched a bit, and then that turned me on to watching, oh right, Jerry Seinfeld's been into it for 30 odd years, and various other people that I admired. And I then, of course, the way the algorithm works, pops the Transcendental Meditation Centre in London. Would you like to go on a free one-hour session in terms of finding out more? I did. Then I signed up for it. And yes, it's one of those things you do have to sign up for, you do have to be given a mantra. What is an amazing thing is that you can't do it badly, you can't do it wrong, you can do it anywhere. And I just find it's been invaluable. I especially if I'm doing shows like a matinee evening show, yeah. Where I would normally have a little schluff in between, little sleep in between with uh with meditation, you know, I might hit the gym for half an hour, come back, do 20 minutes of meditation, and I'm so alert for that second show. Whereas it would always be uh you know an hour of kind of gathering yourself, get the engines going again in order to kind of focus. With this, it's like you just come out of the gate completely, you know, all the synapses are firing, and it's it and physically and mentally you feel completely invigorated.

Chris Grimes:

That's very inspirational to me personally, and I know anyone listening as well. I'd love to talk to you more about that and on because I completely relate to the fact it needs to be guided because I think I'm probably at the cusp of God, I'd love it if somebody could guide me through technology.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I have to stress it doesn't need to be guided. The when I was first doing meditation, I was guided. Yes, yes. TM, there's no guidance, no guidance at all. You're given your mantra and it's just a repetition of it. You allow thoughts into your head if they come in, if it's noisy, fine. Your repetition of the mantra just pushes them out. 20 minutes of TM is equivalent to eight hours of the deepest sleep you can possibly have.

Chris Grimes:

I need some of that monkey. Love that. And and when you say given your mantra, is that something that's um sort of uh personally attributed to you?

SPEAKER_04:

It is, and it's own it's a simple word, and it's it's kind of just a phonetic word that doesn't really mean anything. And um, because I've been doing it for a few years, I've added to that mantra with another word, and that kind of strengthens your it's the it's an advanced technique, and you go you go deeper quicker. You're not allowed to tell anyone what your mantra is. There's a kind of you know, but it's yours for life.

Chris Grimes:

And how does it get allocated? I I know that's a really clumsy way of saying it.

SPEAKER_04:

I think personality types, what you want from it, because the there's an interview process, um, and I presume there's a kind of well of phonetic sounds that work for certain personalities. Yeah. So I always thought, wouldn't it be you know, not knowing what other people's are? Yes, yes, yes. I'm always curious. Maybe they've just got one and they're lazy and they just say you can make it with anyone else. We're all using big dogs cock as our mantra. But yeah, it's uh it it it's you know, I it's worked for me, and and I am, you know, there's nothing that the the the zeal of the newly converted, but you know, I'm I I I will espouse the glory of it.

Chris Grimes:

Um I love the idea of talking somebody into transcendental meditation. You had me at Big Dog's cock.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, exactly. I'll give you your romantro, it costs 400 quid. Don't tell anybody, that's yours.

Chris Grimes:

And can I commend you also for a storytelling hook? That was awesome. Thank you very much. Okay, so we're in your clearing, which is Kingdom Gardens. It's transcendental and it's literal, and it's where your ashes are gonna go. And I just love that. Thank you so much. I'm now gonna arrive, even though there's probably one all there already, with a tree in your clearing. And this is, you know, thanks to our theatre background, deliberately existential, deliberately Samuel Becketty. I'm now gonna arrive with a tree in your clearing and shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out. How do you like these apples? And this is where you've been kind enough to interpret your 54321 exercise, which is five minutes. None of this is a memory test, to have thought about four things that have shaped you. Three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention. That's where a couple of random squirrels are going to come in. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you, Steve. First, we couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. So over to you. As I've said, it's not a memory test, but interpret the shaking of the canopy of your tree as you see fit.

SPEAKER_04:

So the first thing, the things that have shaped me, my musical background, I would say it's been incredibly important. Both my father's my father and my stepfather were classical musicians of some repute. And so I grew up with that as my background, as an oral background and a literal background. But it's so whilst I'm not a classical music fan, I have a knowledge of it and I'm pretty au fa with it, and I learnt various instruments. It's really shaped, I think, the way I hear, uh, the way I listen, and my love of music, which is pretty much my deepest love generally. So that's number one.

Chris Grimes:

There's a cadence of comedy in the cadence of music as well, in terms of rhythmic and punchlining. I completely get where that's coming from.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, and especially you doing improv, you know, it's it's paramount because it's like jazz in terms of your people are throwing ideas in and you having to pick up on them and then work together with someone, and then you know, even more so in improv than with anything else. Um, you know, I was a very late developer to learning lines and being an actor because I didn't train, but that thing of you know, it's not enough to know your lines, it's knowing the other lines and it's knowing how to react to the lines, of course. I mean it's not rocket science, but it's it is listening, and listening is the most important thing. So, you know, there's nothing worse than when you're filming something and they're turning the camera around onto you and the actor who you were listening to previously is now not really listening to you because they're engaged in something else. Awful, awful. You have to act against people that are listening and are open.

Chris Grimes:

So very the greatest actors are the greatest listeners completely. Yeah, and Rudy Shelley, my ancient European mystic acting teacher, would always say, acting is and he kept saying that, and absolutely categorically, yes, it flipping is. Absolutely, lovely first shape itch. Thank you. Um, I would say college.

SPEAKER_04:

I realized I couldn't go to university. I had interviews for Bristol and Exeter and was getting, you know, A and 2B offers, and that was never gonna happen, ever. So I discovered this kind of there was a sort of lower strata of colleges, usually teacher training colleges, that offered drama as an as degree you know as degrees. And um I went for an interview at King Alfred's College in Winchester, and it's Winchester University now, and I thought I'll have a little bit of that. And uh it was small enough for myself and my best friend from school, we both went together to sort of take over within a year. We were running the newspaper, the TV channel, the radio station. We uh, you know, it was it just was a place for us to flourish creatively because it was small enough to do everything. And I loved that fact. I loved the fact that I could just sort of make use of the facilities in order to kind of start creating. And doing what I'm still doing now.

Chris Grimes:

Similar to the mantra of what's meant for you won't pass you by. That's so brilliant that of all the places in all the world, you went where you could do a bit of an EE takeover, as you said.

SPEAKER_04:

And it was that thing of instinctively knowing. I also love history, so I loved, or historical places. So I knew I wanted to be somewhere pretty and old. Yeah. Winchester is just that. But I, you know, and this is at the height of Thatcherism, and you couldn't have got a more right-wing town in terms of jumbo cord wearing braying posh people. But my god, it was beautiful. And I just loved the college and I loved my time there so much. It was, and it really did kind of springboard me into doing what I'm doing. So yeah, very important.

Chris Grimes:

One little second shape-age shape number three, please. There is a bell. I would think I lost.

SPEAKER_04:

I would say running my first cabaret club, I I went into running nightclubs. I had a board games nightclub for several years, and then I ran a club called the Youth Club, which was like an old youth club. And then I we myself and my business partner Mike, we knew that I we wanted to do a cabaret club. That was just what we wanted to do. And so when I started the Regency, what became the Regency Rooms that would then it was the birth of Lenny Beige in the in the mid-90s, that was that was what I knew I I'd always wanted to do. And to realize that, and within a year to be in pretty much the greatest cabaret space in London, which was unheard of when we took it over. Yeah. It was in the same building as Katz, the new London Theatre, now the Gillian Lynn Theatre, it was astonishing. We could not believe that we'd chanced upon this place. And we were there for five years with some of the greatest nights of my life. So that that, in terms of being a performer, getting some notoriety, getting a TV show, you know, working with some legends as well, some childhood legends that I grew up with. It was the answer to my prayers, really. And so it was a combination of performance and writing and producing. And yeah, it it was what made me really.

Chris Grimes:

And Lenny Beige is still there with you. And he's very much he's very present, ever present Lenny Beige.

SPEAKER_04:

30 years, 30 years, two marriages and 30 years. Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

And I know that it's uh welcome to the world of Lenny Beige. It gets better every year. And I think with where you're at now, with what's coming, and I'm intrigued often by something, one of my graphics been out is that the idea of a second curve, or all on the curve or trajectory, as your curve begins to wane, what do you do to attach to your second curve that's going to pull you towards your future? I love the fact that Lenny Beige is still there pulling you towards your future.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I stopped booking gigs because it became a bit of a nightmare, you know, post-COVID. And then and then I I've done a cut, I did a residency in Barbados at the beginning of the year, which was great. And I did a gig in Italy. And it's so I love doing gigs for other people where I don't have to promote, I can just turn up and do it. And no one has any preconceptions. Yes. Um, but now I have the circle and star, I want there to be a regular Lenny night, and it just feels right. And in fact, we will be, as far as I know, the first theater on our website to use an AI assisted assistant, which we are calling Sadie, which is Lenny's mum. And we've been testing it this week, and it's extraordinary. So if you just put questions in, it will answer into uh uh with the mouth of Lenny's mum. Uh and it so I put in How's Lenny as a test, two words, and it came back. Who? My Lenny? Let me tell you, he's gonna be here on the 20th of December. And yes, you'll know it's him warming up because you'll hear him say he's the only man who can uh who can rhyme Gloria with Menoria. I mean, it was just it's it's sort of you know, things that I mean it's frightening, but also wonderful. So um it's it's lovely to have a bit of beige on the website as well.

Chris Grimes:

Love that. Also, you talk about Carpe Demon sees the modern way of doing stuff and make it an all-purpose singing and dancing and AI if I so the fact you've got comedy AI for you, but with a kind of human touch that that will make people smile as well. And the warm, the human, and the connecting is the thing that's so important to keep alive while we're all terrified with what AI actually means in terms of I mean it can't do it can't do warm and it can't be the idea is it can't do knob gags yet, whereas we still can.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I I I disagree. I think if I put in I it will. It's uh it it's yeah, when you think about what it was doing last, you know, a year ago, it was pretty dry and dull. Now it's it's learnt so much. Yes, it's frightening, but I'm really I I do like to harness technology and to use it in combination with what we are doing in a human way. Uh, I think the two can work side by side.

Chris Grimes:

Of course, beautifully put. And of course, Circle and Star is all singing and dancing in terms of technologically savvy as well, because you've got it curated as a podcast studio as well, I'm gathering.

SPEAKER_04:

We are putting three cameras in to not only stream shows to record shows, but also to do podcasting if people want. So, yeah, that's really important that we offer a space that is digitally, it's a digital stage as well.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah. Wonderful. So I think we've gone to shapage number four, please, now.

SPEAKER_04:

Shapage number four. I would say being a late developer, I didn't do my first musical until I was in Matilda in 2012. And that was the steepest learning curve in so many ways. There was something about being in that musical, which was the hottest ticket in town.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Where you have 1,500 people, you know, at the end of the show, all jump to their feet, which I've never had since, and I probably will never have.

Chris Grimes:

It ends the shaping, beautifully deftly put. Now it's three things, we're still in the canopy of your tree, three things that inspire you, Steve. Okay. Two a musical.

SPEAKER_04:

One is I fell in love, and I can remember, I was telling the story a few days ago when I went to college. A guy, a very, very dear friend of mine, Ravi, he he had a you know, a an old kind of cassette radio cassette machine. And I remember him going, You have to hear this. You have to hear this piece of music. And it was The Cat by Jimmy Smith, the Hammond Organ player. And I honestly thought I'd lost my mind. It was astonishing to me. And then I got into funky jazz organ, Jimmy Smith, Jimmy McGriff, Jack McDuff. There's lots of players now that you know, and it and then I realized, oh yeah, I used to like Deep Purple. Why did I like Deep Purple? Because it had a Hammond organ. John Lord played a Hammond organ. Why do I like the charlatans? Because the charlatans had a hammered organ. So with all these different genres of music, but they all had a kind of common thread running through them. And I just love the hammered organ. And then I went to see him a couple of times play live before he died. There's just something about that instrument. I love them. Absolutely love them.

Chris Grimes:

Again, nom nom nom nom nom for the second time. That's lovely. Uh, second inspiration.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh, a great documentary. I uh I love and by great documentary. I mean, it's obviously very subjective, but I do for my character work, when I've done character shows where I've done multi-character shows, all of my favorite characters are based or the germ of the idea comes from documentaries, and nearly always. So there were ones that I grew up with that because I had a big VHS collection as a teenager, I'm going into my 20s. And you know, there were human interest stories or things about weird people or stalkers or whatever it was. Things that sometimes, you know, being slightly unpolitically correct, you you laughed at, but you shouldn't have laughed at. But there were things that you were like, oh my, these extraordinary worlds that you know that people would be delving into.

Chris Grimes:

Societal outliers, you mean?

SPEAKER_04:

Societal outliers, I'll take that. Absolutely. Yeah. And I just find human interest stories of the things that inspire me the most. More than reading, more than it's for me, it's a documentary, and it always has been. Documentaries now become a little bit too textured and layered and and or often about the personality, Louis Thoreau, or or you know, whoever else. I always like the on-scene documentary makers, the one that would just point the camera and let the subject talk.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, and uh, I'm making a documentary myself at the moment uh about a friend's garden in Hastings. And I I'm not envisioned at all. I don't want to be envisioned, I don't really want to even be heard in it. It's about the subject, it's not about the person making it.

Chris Grimes:

Yes. And where do you go for your source material, wanting the more outliery ones? YouTube. YouTube.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, you know, that it and the great thing is the internet's thrown up all the old ones that you know that I'm like, oh, of course I couldn't find that anymore. So there it is. Or Vice, you you know, for years Vice were doing some amazing work with weirdos and wonderful people and societal outliers. So yeah, it's an easier time than ever to kind of delve deep down that rabbit hole.

Chris Grimes:

It's the world of the mavericks as well, actually, which is I know you'd get sucker from as an actor as well, because it's about being quirky and maverick.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Comic.

SPEAKER_04:

There's a there's a guy who has got a channel on YouTube called Soft White Underbelly, um, American guy, and he interviews people on Skid Row, basically. So there's you know, drug addicts and people who who are abusers and have been abused. He has absolutely no judgment as to who he will interview. And it's they're the most they're the most extraordinary interviews because these are people that have probably never told their story to anyone other than you know a friend or whoever is listening. And it they're deeply moving and very inspirational, but also you get the kernel of an idea from those stories. And and uh yeah, I love that sort of thing.

Chris Grimes:

That's a great second thing that inspires you, and I think a third thing now it's a musical one again, and it's not it's northern soul.

SPEAKER_04:

When uh again, when I first heard Northern Soul, I didn't know what it was. My friend had an LP. And why a middle-class Jewish boy from North London would get into what was ostensibly the preserve of people up north who worked hard for the week and then on a Saturday night would go dancing, you know, in ballrooms that would reopen after midnight or 11 o'clock with no bar, but they would dance through the night, usually with diet pills to pep them up. But I think it that there's something about collectively hearing that music which changed my life. And I still go to Northern Soul Dews now. I love it more than ever now. Yeah. Um, and it I you know, when I was working up north and when I was working in Leeds and when I was working in Leicester, I'll seek out the little ones in social clubs. I'll go buy them by myself. Yes. And there's something about that people are always more the most welcoming. Uh I just that music loud in a big ballroom on a slidey floor. I love the dancings. The only music I dance to, I find it so uplifting and meditative as well.

Chris Grimes:

Um you're a North Londoner with a northern soul.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, exactly. I mean, there are many of us, I have to tell you. Uh now the beautiful thing is the scene is full of young people. And it's as you know, Bristol, there's a big contingent, and in London, there's some of the best dancing I've ever seen with under-25s, under 30s. It's so joyous, absolutely wonderful.

Chris Grimes:

Great stuff. And now we're on to two things that never fail to grab your attention and deliberately borrow from the film Up, where the dog goes, Oh, uh, squirrels, you know, what are your monsters of distraction? What two things never fail to distract you, irrespective of everything else that's going on for you in your no doubt hectic and eclectic life, Steve, first.

SPEAKER_04:

Old venues. I will I uh if I see one, I need I need to know what was here, why or is that oh we can go around the back, maybe we can see. You know, it's when I'm in them, if I'm ever filming in them, I I can't be in that one space. I have to go off piste and explore. These places, as you know, walls retain energy, and that's why when you go and you're buying a house, or you know, when you walk in summer and you get nah, not this place. Yeah, they have a they have an inherent vibe and soul.

Chris Grimes:

And does does does pentameters, as was, have some interesting little nukes and crannies?

SPEAKER_04:

It's a small space, I think it does. I think, yeah, it and now we've cleared it. I think they they stagnated the last 10 years, and it felt like it, you know, it wasn't moving forward anymore. So to kind of remove that, but still keep the shell of it, and then bring in stuff that's new.

Chris Grimes:

I think of all the people to walk past that day when you saw the sort of eviction notice and the fact that you're now reinvigorating with new energy is really wonderful.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Second uh squirrel, dogs.

SPEAKER_04:

Absolutely obsessed by them. And uh I was saying yesterday how I really miss having one, but I just can't at the moment. And uh, but yeah, I'll stop everything to chat to dogs.

Chris Grimes:

And you mentioned a beagle previously. Uh and I know you've probably had the sad demise of two dogs if you used to be a dog owner.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, one was uh yeah, one went to the country. I'm pretty sure he did go to the country. Mr. Bojangles, the Beagle. They're a pain in the arse, and they're beautiful and lovely and brilliant with kids, but they are so single-minded when it comes to food that you know you can offer a platter of meat here, but if there's the smell of something old and rotting from three months ago across the road, the beagle will go for that.

Chris Grimes:

Mr. Bojangles as a beagle. I mean, what a great name. Was that your meaning? Was that your name, or was it?

SPEAKER_04:

I wanted to so when it was a puppy, when he was a puppy, he had big paws, and I wanted to call him Pinter. Yeah. But then I might have been a bit of a theatre wanker for that. So I decided no, Mr. Bojangles is an homage to my cabaret background as well.

Chris Grimes:

But then I've both of those answers are just great. Love that.

unknown:

Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

What's the a quirky or unusual fact now is the one. So what's a quirky or unusual fact about you? We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm a look-alike obsessive, and I will sometimes not leave a room until I've got a look-alike in my head for everyone in that room.

Chris Grimes:

Love that. And are you inspired about me?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I mean, obviously, you're giving off the coming fight. But when people like, well, who do I look like? They'll invariably go, oh, thanks. Thanks for having me.

Chris Grimes:

No, no, coming, Alan Cumming, I'm I'm there. I've been told that before.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, well, of course, because it's a very good looker like. But my best mate Mike and I, we would, when we take the tube to school, we'd always have to get everybody across from us. Um, and it's never really gone away. It's one of those, it's it's a free game, and it's a free game that is joyous. And when you can have someone in your life to share it with, it's brilliant. And there's a little like, you know, you'll have a looks like off hello, given. You know, it's always a given. So um, yeah.

Chris Grimes:

I like that's the punchline. If it works, given, yeah, given. Lovely. I was in the Scottish Highlands about three weeks ago, and that's the last time I got called an Alan Cumming. So it was someone filming a Triventure, which was an extraordinary day of doing a canoe ride, a walk, and an e-bike ride all in one day for something called a Tri Venture, and somebody was filming it to make it work, and it was just beautiful. And the the cameraman kept saying to me, Alan Cumming, Alan Cumming. Anyway, right. Alan Cumming. Um so well done. We've shaken your tree, Steve, first. Hurrah! Thank you. Now we stay in the clearing, move away from the tree. Next, we talk about alchemy and gold. You've been giving me this by the bucket load anyway, but when you're at purpose and in flow, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I'm sure it wouldn't be unusual in this podcast view to hear being on stage doing what I do and surrounded by creatives doing what they love. There's something glorious about it when it works, and when it, you know, even when you have a long day, you're like, but look at what we're doing, it's great. And then when you've got a great part in something, like when I did Olive, when I did Oliver and played Fagan, it was like, you know, you just every night the relish of doing it, and it yeah, it doesn't mean you may play him again as well, because obviously that is, I mean, you know, talk about being born for a part.

Chris Grimes:

That's a common thing.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, thank you know what I've done I've done because I didn't want it to be the last some last time I played him, and so I've written a show about Fagan, which I will be this year putting on at my theatre occasionally to build it up. And uh, but it's a show looking at you know the the Dickens representation of Fagin in the first half, and then Lionel Bart's compare contrast, it's multi-character. I'm interviewing myself, I'm lip-syncing stuff, I'm I'm writing a couple of new songs, I'm singing the old song, you know. So, and then looking at the anti-Semitism of the part as well. Like it's a really, you know, it's a rich, it's a rich character. There's a and you know, I've done a lot of research, and and I think that could be a show which could run and run, or I could pick it up and tour it and do it wherever, because yes, yes, you know, everyone knows who he is.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, yeah. Wonderful. Giving it the sort of Rosencrantz and Gildenstone a dead treatment, as in what happens off stage, but actually into the world of Fagin.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Exactly.

Chris Grimes:

Exactly. Wonderful. So um Alchemy and Gold, now I'm gonna award you with a cake. So, first of all, do you like cake? Uh Steve. Of course. You may appreciate this. Is actually something when I was sourcing what to sort of hold up, this is a doggy toy, and it looks a bit like a carrot cake.

SPEAKER_04:

So it does, which I absolutely love, by the way. Carrot cake would almost be at my top of my list.

Chris Grimes:

And now you get to put a cherry on the cake with stuff like what's a favorite inspirational quote that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future?

SPEAKER_04:

Great quote by the photographer Cecil Beaton, who said, Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play it safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. Boo. Yeah, just that. Love be yourself, be different, don't be afraid. Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Anyone listening, I'd encourage you to stop at this point, rewind that slice and play that again. That was beautiful, lovely bit of cake. With the gift of hindsight, yeah. Uh, what notes, help or advice, and you can pick when you go back and wrap your own arms around yourself, enigmatically, like a hologram, but what what notes, help or advice might you proffer to a younger version of yourself, Steve?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, not only to myself, but I do it when I teach. Please do not get hung up on the success of your peers and contemporaries, because it will drive you to distraction. The longer we have been in the business, and you and I are probably a comparable age, Chris, but we know that things happen at different times. There is a huge dollop of luck involved in what we do and synchronicity. And especially in the the kind of the performative arts, isn't especially in comedy, why are they doing a series when I've been doing it longer? Why are they there? And you just have to go because that's the way it is. And if you are hung up about that angst, then you won't be doing your best work. You need to just keep uh believing in yourself and doing what you do and only concern yourself with that because anything else is uh extraneous uh nonsense.

Chris Grimes:

Again, may I say boom and nom nom nom nom nom for a third time. That's just the most Brilliant sage advice from somebody who's been there, still peddling the t-shirt in a really good way. So, uh, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given, obviously, by somebody else, is the clue in the construction of that question.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know. Because I I I wish I'd been given more advice as a younger man. It's it's that thing of determined self-belief, is don't get distracted by anything or anybody else or negativity around you. If you believe in something, then just go for it. It's not unusual or new, but you can't hear it enough. Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

We're ramping up to Shakespeare in a minute to talk about legacy, but just before we get there, there's a lovely section now, oh clang, clang, clang, called Pass the Golden Baton, please. So now you've experienced this from within. Is there anyone in your network in order to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going that you might like to pass the golden baton along to?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, we'd probably like what if you put me forward, but it's my friend Mark Wogan, who is son of Terry. Um Mark has been a dear friend for about nearly 30 years, but Mark was always someone who I would go to and still do for advice. He's just one of those sage-like people. I just trust his judgment on things. I think because he'd been through drug and alcohol addiction as a really young man and then went into counseling himself. He was someone who was a listener and just yeah, was a great supporter and believer in people. And he does a great podcast himself called Spooning, because he's a chef as well as a presenter, broadcaster.

Chris Grimes:

And on the craziness of spooning, let's do spoons. I love that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And he's just a really, really gifted human being and a great speaker, like his dad.

Chris Grimes:

Thank you. That's a very precious golden baton pass and generous indeed. Thank you so much. So um now we go back to um Shakespeare. Inspired by all the world to stage and all the bedded women, merely players, from as you like it, Jake is this is now when all is said and done, Steve First, how would you most like to be remembered?

SPEAKER_04:

As a creative that's never really stopped being inspired and moving forward. And I hope by doing so, especially with this new space, that I invoke that inspiration and creativity in others to provide a platform for them to also create what they've always wanted to do. And it would be an amazing thing to discover new talent and to maybe even produce shows as a venue going forward in other places that you know you just kind of I've always been very good at talent spotting and and I just want that to continue and uh that to be my legacy.

Chris Grimes:

Lovely. Keep on keeping on being awesome, being the sort of punchline of that. That's fantastic. Uh, just a couple of announcements from me. You'll see I'm uh wearing a t-shirt which says, What's your story? There's a very exciting series strand to this show, which is called Legacy Life Reflections, which is to record your story or the story of somebody precious to you for posterity, lest we forget before it's too late. My own father, Colin Grimes, just to give you a personal bit of information, not you, Steve, but the audience, was my very first willing guinea pig about five years ago. My dad died a year ago, but now I still have his story, his recording, his podcast using this creative structure that I've curated with The Good Listening to Show, Stories of Distinction and Genius. I can't tell you how precious it is. If you'd like a conversation about being a guest on the show too, the website for my show is thegoodlistening to show.com as well. As this has been your moment in the sunshine, Steve, first of the Good Listening to show, is there anything else you'd like to say?

SPEAKER_04:

That night of the 15th of April, I wasn't there. I wasn't there.

Chris Grimes:

It wasn't there. So, ladies and gentlemen, I've been Chris Grimes, but most importantly, this has been the delightful guest. Uh privilege, Steve. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chris. Thank you so much. Thank you very much indeed. I'll stop recording there. Good night. You've been listening to the Good Listening to show with me, Chris Grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how. Care of the series strands at the Good Listening2Show.com website. If you'd like to connect with me on LinkedIn, please do so. And if you'd like to have some coaching with me, care of my personal impact game changer program, then you can contact me and also about the show at Chris at secondcurve.uk. On X and Instagram, it's at thatCrisgrimes. Tune in next week for more stories from the clearing. And don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.