The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Founder Story: Mary Van Eker from Be By Your Side Coaching on the launch of her new 'The Me I Forgot' signature Coaching Programme, helping Women to Rediscover Themselves to Reclaim Joy & Purpose

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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A quiet letter. A packed car on the way back from university. A house that suddenly feels bigger than your life. These moments whisper the same question: who are you now? Coach and founder Mary Van Eker joins us to share the story behind her new signature 'The Me I Forgot' Programme, a 4 week programme designed for women 45+ who want to rediscover their identity, purpose, and joy after decades of caregiving or career-first living.

We dive into the real triggers that spark change—menopause, empty nests, shifting family dynamics—and how to turn them into a reset rather than a crisis. Mary unpacks her coaching craft: creating a mental “clearing” where thinking deepens, using silence to surface insight, and blending agile methods with human warmth. Think sprints, backlogs, and tiny experiments that build confidence without burnout. 

She speaks candidly about belonging, from Liverpool’s grit to Portsmouth’s community, and how parenting four children trained her to hold space, listen for truth, and celebrate the moment a client’s face lifts with an aha.

This conversation moves beyond platitudes. You’ll hear practical steps to reclaim your voice, set boundaries, and map a life that feels chosen. We explore women’s networks as lifelines, the courage to be seen and heard, and the gentle power of asking one question without apology: what do you want? If your inner narrator has gone quiet, Mary’s invitation is simple and strong—have a go, learn in public, and iterate toward a life that fits.

Ready to find the you that went quiet while you were holding everyone else together? Listen now, share this with a friend who needs it, and tell us one small step you’ll take this week. 

If you find value here, follow the show, leave a review, and help more women see what’s possible.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Chris Grimes:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening to Show, your life and times with me, Chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing, where all good questions come to get asked, and all good stories come to be told. And where all my guests have two things in common. They're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors, a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 54321, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, and a cake. So it's all to play for. So yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show, your life and times with me, Chris Grimes. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin. And uh welcome, welcome if you're watching across the World Wide Web. Welcome to the Good Listening To Show, stories of distinction and genius. I'm Chris Grimes, the curator and the host. I'm very, very happy to have Mary Van Eker, who's going to be doing a founder story. Hello, Mary. Hello, half Dutch, half Scouse, in terms of how you sound as well. So I'm intrigued to find out, obviously, where Van Eker comes from, all of that stuff. But you're here to talk about a founder story because you're about to announce a new signature program, The Me I Forgot, which is what we're here to amplify. And you are a coach and founder of Be by Your Side Coaching, which is a wonderful name. It's really clear in its proposition. Delighted to have you here. So uh welcome. Where are you speaking from today, Mary Van Eker?

Mary Van Eker:

Thank you, Chris. What a lovely introduction. I am coming to you live from the Forest of Dean, well, just outside the Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire. Tiny little sliver of the country nestled between Chepstow and Gloucester, equidistant between, it's a strange part of the world, between Gloucester, Cardiff, and Bristol.

Chris Grimes:

Live from Fod. We like that, the Forest of Dean. Absolutely. And my presumption when we first met was the Dutch equation of the Van Eker. So is it Dutch in your in your sort of family history?

Mary Van Eker:

In my husband's family, yeah, ancestry. Yeah, absolutely. We're from Liverpool, so there's nothing Dutch about us, but just way back in his ancestry.

Chris Grimes:

And whilst I've got you, what's your maiden name, please? No extra points, but just thought I'd ask you that as well.

Speaker 1:

So this is interesting. When I first met him and he told me a surname, I thought, oh yeah, that's a good one, because my maiden name is Duff, Mary Duff.

Chris Grimes:

That's a great name.

Mary Van Eker:

That sounds no middle name, just eight characters in my name. And there is a famous Irish singer called Mary Duff as well.

Chris Grimes:

So, yes, we're here to talk about the fact that you are a wonderful life coach. Uh, you're going to be doing a four-week rediscovery program. And please do tell us all about this for women who feel that they've lost themselves in career or caregiving. And your target market, I suppose, is 45 to six-year-old women in who you've decided to profile. So just tell us the story behind the story of what you're here to launch today, alongside the new, which I've seen, very new and swanky, very crisp and clear, bebyyoursidecoaching.com website, which I'll point people to at the end. So, what's the programme all about, Mary?

Mary Van Eker:

So the programme, the Me I Forgot programme, is slightly autobiographical. As a woman in her early 50s, well, sort of early 50s, I have experienced a lot of the disempowerment that women my age face. So not only are we caregivers for decades and decades, and that could be in, you know, caring for parents or caring for children or whatever, or dedicated to our career. So I've got a lot of uh friends who don't have children but are dedicated their lives to their career. And suddenly you get a letter through the post. In my case, it was a letter from my pension company, who I've been paying into for the last 30 years, to say, now you're of a certain age, we'll need to start thinking about putting your pension into safer bonds because you'll be drawing it soon. And I'm thinking, oh, okay, that that was the first trigger. The second trigger was my eldest child is 26. And when I dropped her at university, the first child to leave the nest, I sobbed all the way home. She phoned me three, four hours later saying to my son, is mum still sobbing? And when I examined that, actually, I yes, of course, I was bereft and felt like the dynamic, oh, family dynamics are changing. But when I thought about it, it was a sadness for myself because that part of me now is changing. And then now I need to focus on something else. Fortunately, I've got another three children to focus on, you know, it's not happening just yet. But it was really they're gonna keep me going for the next uh few years. But it was really interesting that now I'm shifting towards this. What's next part of my life? So that's the first part, that's the autobiographical part. But also as a woman in corporate and as a women in tech committee lead, I know from lots and lots of drop-in sessions I've held for women in the corporate world and outside of the corporate world, just close friends, what it's like to be a woman who goes through menopause, who's going through menopause, children leaving home, family dynamics changing, parents passing or needing additional care, and the and then the bereft nature of what's left, what's next, how am I going to navigate this? So, all of that combined with my coaching qualifications and accreditations just led me naturally down this path to provide some sort of support, some sort of program that helps women rediscover who they are, rediscover what their passions are, lights their fire up, and then sets them on a course where they have a really strong vision about what they want their retirement or their journey into retirement to look like. Because we hear stories about people reaching retirement and them not having a plan. And it's been work, work, work for decades and then nothing, and terrible things then happen. So it's it's about taking stock before it's too late to reimagine what your future could be like outside of work, outside of caregiving, outside of those other things that take up our time. Because we're really busy as women, so it's just a really nice time to, it's a really beautiful programme. I've thrown my heart and soul on the kitchen sink into it, to provide it and equipping women, brilliant women, with what's next in their lives.

Chris Grimes:

That's so eloquently positioned and put. And I know that you are wanting to help people rediscover their old dreams or reignite new ones by rediscovering that sense of purpose. And purpose is very much a component of what we're going to be talking about in hearing the story behind the story. You've already given some wonderful biographical insights so far. But if I may, let me get you on the open road now, the curated structure of the Good Listening to show. This is the show, if you haven't seen it before, where have you been? We're about 275 episodes in now. The show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers, and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place of my guests' choosing, as together we all share the wisdom and their insights of their stories of distinction and genius. And as I've already described, Mary's here to do a founder story all about the Be by Your Side coaching signature program she's about to launch. So we're going to get on to purpose at the end. And at the very end, there's going to be a very exciting moment called Show As Your QR code, please. So as you hear Mary's wonderful story, you'll also be able to find out exactly where you can come and find her at the end of the show as well. If you'd really like to get a program. So any questions before we start, Mary? None from me, Chris. You go for it. So there's going to be a clearing, a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 54321. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton, and a cake. So it's all to play for. Sounds right up my alley. Well, and talking about up your alley, there is a wonderful map of a vista behind you. Just describe your background just before we get going, because it's just a wonderful vista of exploration.

Mary Van Eker:

So behind me, I've got North America and I've got the same wall mural on the map opposite me. So I'm faced with Asia and I've got North America behind me, and I just love it. I love it.

Chris Grimes:

Which allows a lovely segue to call you global head of yourself. And I'd like to offer everyone listening and watching that promotion, you are global head of yourself. And if in doubt, just wedge yourself between a vista of two world maps, which is what Mary's done. Fantastic. What we're going to do then is first of all ask you where you describe your clearing to be. Your clearing is your serious, happy place. Where does Mary Van Eco go to get clutter-free, inspirational, and able to think?

Mary Van Eker:

I want you to picture the scene, Chris. So I live in the beautiful forest of Dean. I mean, it is glorious, particularly at this time of year. And we live on a little tiny farm. We've essentially got two fields. One field is flat, and the other field dips down into a little valley with a stream at the bottom. And this is my happy place. And although sometimes it's not very human-friendly, it's so nature-friendly. So when I go down there, there's nothing around at all. There is absolutely nothing on the bottom field apart from nature. And it's got a really beautiful mossy grass. I know that's not a curated lawn, and that's not what I'm after here. But sometimes it's very dewy, often because it's north facing. But when I sit in on the bottom field on this soft mossy grass, all I hear are birds around me. I see hear the leaves rustling, I see the leaves in the trees. And then we've got a little small brook at the bottom that just uh tinkles away. Oh and it's just a magical nature-filled place. And even when I'm not able to get down there, even imagining just sitting on that hill on that, you know, slopey, slopey hill, oh, it just takes me away. It makes me feel really peaceful and calm.

Chris Grimes:

I absolutely love the fact no one has ever said mossy dew as a place to sit and contemplate and reflect on your path and trajectory. So that's a beautiful clearing. And I'm loving the sensory vocation of the dew on the moss as well. And of course, now it's autumn as well, not to tie us down to a particular time of the year. What a perfect time. And are we doing animal walking or dog walking when we're there, or is it just children walking or on your own, or are you on your own for most of the time?

Mary Van Eker:

Well, when I imagine it, I'm on my own because it's just such a peaceful, solitary uh moment for me. And we do have wild deer here as well. So we have had deer on that field, lots of pheasants at this time of year. And I suppose living in the countryside, you have to just embrace it all, you know. That's what it's all about, just in embracing the nature. So this time's with me, but very often I go down with our labradoodle Rigby, who's a bit of a lunatic, and we love him dearly. Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Labradoodle Rigby. And if he appears at any point during the show, all the better for that as well. And just to clarify, we said pheasants, not peasants. I'm kidding. The motive exactly. And uh you're uh you don't strike me as somebody who has a gun either. You want to sort of just admire them for their majestic beauty and be at one with nature. Absolutely. So uh I'm now gonna arrive with a tree in your clearing, and this is where you're gonna shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out. How do you like these apples? A couple of comedy props occasionally will pop in. And this is where you've had five minutes at Mary Van Eke to have thought about four things that have shaped you. Three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention and borrow from the film up, there'll be, oh, squirrels, which may pop up at any point. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you we couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. So over to you, first of all, to interpret, it's not a memory test, but interpret the shaking of the canopy of your tree as you see fit. So four things that have shaped you, Mary, first of all.

Mary Van Eker:

Well, I think the one obvious thing that shaped me, and anybody who has been brought up in Liverpool will know this is that city. Liverpool has shaped me, and every single person who comes out of here, it's kind of we're in a clan. You don't realise when you go outside of Liverpool that the majestic architecture is not commonplace in other cities in the country. I mean, it's breathtaking the architecture. Every time I go back there, I'm blown away by St. George's Hall, which was the backdrop for the latest Batman film, for example, or the riverside uh live buildings and the civic buildings there. I mean, that's just the architecture. We've got the Radio City Tower. Oh, it's just amazing. And then you get the arts. So the arts, we've got one of the biggest libraries outside of London, we've got the biggest two-tier theatre in the Liverpool Empire outside of London. We've we just take it for granted that people are, you know, from other parts of the country have the same passion for music. I mean, the Beatles, all of Jerry and the pacemakers, all of that beautiful music that came in because we are massively inspired by Transatlantic from America. That all came about in the 60s when there were guys hanging around, you know, waiting for work to come in, and all of this music came over and they interpret it, and that's in part why and how the Beatles and other such music came about. So we've got the architecture, we've got the arts, we've got the people. I mean the people are hilarious. When I go home, I just know I'm back with my people. We just sort of get each other, they're very generous, they're very supportive, they would do anything for you if you needed anything, and you're out and about and you're stranded, you know, you'd always you take that for granted that you get that in the rest of the country. And of course, that's not the case. There are generous people elsewhere, but they just seem particularly generous from Liverpool. And it's just, it's just sort of a close knit. We're kind of a part of the country. I think that's very unique, you know. If you're from Liverpool, you just and you meet a fellow Scouser outside of Liverpool, there's just an immediate connection and bond. You could be anywhere in the world and you meet someone from Liverpool, and it's incredibly bonding. So yeah, incredible music, arts, camaraderie. Obviously, we've got the football, great sports up there. So, yeah, that's definitely one thing that shaped me as coming from Liverpool.

Chris Grimes:

I hope this will award you with the keys to the city once because you're such a wonderful advocate for Liverpool. That was just great. You're definitely you belong, you're from Liverpool. Come on.

Mary Van Eker:

Yeah, I haven't lived there for a long time, but I just feel really peaceful when I go back there. It's just feels like I suppose when you're you go elsewhere, you always feel like an outsider, like you don't belong to that city. But when you go home, you just it feels clamped in, you know, you just feel like you're secure again.

Chris Grimes:

And what's the family you still have in Liverpool? Because obviously that's where you're going for your homecoming. Who who are your family that are still there?

Mary Van Eker:

So I'm very lucky to still have my lovely mum and dad, my sisters, all my nieces and nephews are there. Oh, it's it's just an amazing place when you go back.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah, beautiful. And when you so it's your homecoming, I really get that. And when was the last time you went?

Mary Van Eker:

Only a few weeks ago. Only a few weeks ago. And I'm from a part of Liverpool on the outskirts called Crosby, famous for its Anthony Gourmley statues on Crosby Beach, looking out overlooking the you know, looking out to the Irish Sea. So I every time I go down there, I definitely have to go and hug a an Anthony Gourmney statue or wrap a scarf around it and take my mum down there.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah. Hugger statue, that's great. I love that.

Mary Van Eker:

Hugger statue. Look at Anthony Gourmney, yeah.

Chris Grimes:

I've had Mike McCartney in my show before, who's a real uh icon. He's Paul McCartney's brother. You know, his whole photography is about Liverpool, as I'm sure you know.

Mary Van Eker:

Wow. I mean, he's he's just spoiled for choice there then. You do feel that uh it's it's really strange when you go to other big cities that don't have the same centre, that don't have the same vibrancy. So one of the times I was up in the summer, most towns, and it's really sad that you go into a city centre and it's bereft of all of its heart. And I went to, well, we went into Liverpool City Centre in the summer to see Joseph and his technical a dream coach, and the city couldn't have been more bouncy. It was absolutely packed with shoppers. There was a walking singing group that came through that all the ladies had, all the group had headphones on, and there was a woman conducting them, and they were stood on the stairs next to us, singing their, you know, singing their best songs, living their best lives. It was absolutely vibrant, packed, bouncing. They were just, oh yeah, incredible. And you don't, I I mean, the cities that we go to now, it's full of charity shops, absolutely fine, it's a sign of the times. But I was just blown away by the vibrancy in Liverpool on that particular Saturday afternoon.

Chris Grimes:

As I say, I hope you get the keys to the city after that wonderful, you know, brought to you by a sort of tourist information film on behalf of Liverpool County Council. That was great. Okay, second shapage now. So the next thing that shaped you, Mary.

Mary Van Eker:

So when I left Liverpool in the mid-90s, I spent most of my adult life down in Portsmouth, actually on the South Coast. So I would say that Portsmouth definitely shaped me. Very different, well, different and similar to Liverpool, another big naval port, but now we're on the south coast and we're looking out towards the continent and looking out to France in particular, you know, with a ferry port, very, very busy ferry port and one of the busiest waterways, the Solent in the world, actually. Massive four cargo terminals, etc. Beautiful people there, very warm. They took me in, they embraced me. Most of my very good friends are still in Portsmouth. And again, it's a melting pot of a city. You know, it's a lot of my friends don't tend to come from Portsmouth, but they actually move there, you know, their families have moved there, or they've they've been imported in, they've been shipped in from other places, and that's worldwide and within the UK. So all of my, I've got four children, they were all born in, well, one of them was born in Scotland, but most of them were born in in Portsmouth and they were brought up there. Our lives centred around our school for a lot of, you know, for 16 or more years we were parents, stood at the school gates. So very much involved in the PTA, very much involved in that community, knowing Gunwharf, which is uh one of the iconic parts of Portsmouth with its Finneker Tower. We moved there before that even opened, and now it's a tourist destination. Running along the seafront every Saturday morning, going down to the seafront on a really hot summer day and watching the kids swim in the sea, meeting friends down there, going for barbecues, always something happening on South Sea Common. Always, you know, something happening. We have kite festivals down there, we have Victoria's festivals down there. And I think just knowing that there was something to do with the kids every weekend, you know, we'd leave the car because it's one of the highly densely populated cities in the country. So we'd leave the car over the weekend and we'd walk everywhere because it's only an island, famously. Not a lot of people know that, but it is actually an island, that's only five miles squared. So we just leave the car and we'd walk everywhere, and the kids just knew that we'd be going down and doing something on the seafront in in Portsmouth down in South Sea. I'm getting all nostalgic for my lovely South Sea now.

Chris Grimes:

You're a phenomenal storyteller. May I just congratulate you? Your sense evocation is just delicious. It's just lovely what you're talking about. And interesting that both of your shapages have been about geography so far. They've both been places that are part of your heart and your sort of DNA. And then there you are, sandwiched between two maps. I think travel and geography and a sense of belonging, just to reflect back what I'm experiencing in listening to you, is just really delicious, lovely stuff. So I'm intrigued to know now, and it doesn't have to be whether number three, you know, cash in number three, whether you're going to do the third shapage about geography or not. But what would you say your third shapage is?

Mary Van Eker:

Well, this is an odd one, but from the week after I moved down to Portsmouth in 1996 until only off until the last few years, I worked for one company, very, very fortunate in this day and age to work from one for one gorgeous company. It was Southern Electric when I joined it. It's now one of the big five energy companies, Scottish and Southern Energy. So big shout out for to anyone who ever worked at Scottish and Southern Energy because it was my family and it shaped me from, you know, I started as a temp working on the call centre on the phones, you know, I'll give this lag six months. And like most of us who started in big corporations back then, unbeknownst to us, we stay because they provide this rich learning and development environment that you can, you know, jump from one area, make sideway moves to another. And then, you know, before you know it, five years later, I've moved over to IT and I'm running the IT service desk and I'm doing all the then move on to service management and I'm meeting incredible people. And then as the company grows, it starts to become a massive renewable energies company, which is again one of my green passions. I just love the ethos and the ethics and the code behind that. You know, that shaped us. Um, we had brilliant CEOs who really invested in their people, and then I went on to the application management side of things. So we grew bigger and bigger. This mainframe system that came in in 1996 that we all learned about then, now 20 years later, is becoming obsolete in old tech. So I was involved in that takeover. We worked with brilliant people from IBM India, and I was uh responsible for the augmentation contract there. So that was you know, hundreds and hundreds of developers and testers and God knows what who came in and they came in, and I was the central point of contact for all of that, making sure the quality was right and just embracing it. We we then started to have Diwali festivals every year, and it got bigger and better and bolder as the years went on. And of course, then we brought in more third parties, and it was people from you know, all of the KPMG and all of those uh big corporations. So I suppose if you can hold your own in SSE, you can hold your own anywhere. And because lots of us were entrenched at SSE for 20 odd years, you know, invested in the company, and you know, you cut us through, we were SSE through and through. But it's really interesting that that is a real great foundation for being able to go and out for going out into the world knowing that you've got quality, you've been invested in, you've been developed in. So it's it's really stood me in great stead. It's given me a great sense of quality, a sense of purpose, a sense of meaning, sense of self-development. So yeah, that was, and I've my incredible SSE family are we have meetups now because a lot of us have have left the company and it's a different sort of flavor of it now. But we meet up every year and we're still, you know, the best of friends. I think it's interesting for our generation, Chris, that being in the office day in, day out was just something that we took for granted. It's not the case now. And I absolutely love working from home. That's my I think if I could have done that, I probably would have. But you do miss those people that you wouldn't ordinarily, you know, meet otherwise, you know, the old boys who give these words of pearls of wisdom before they go off and retire, you know. So yeah, I've thoroughly enjoyed my time at SSE, and that's definitely something that shaped me.

Chris Grimes:

A real through line in the story that you're transmitting is your sense of belonging and there's loyalty, which is deeply entrenched. I think when you decide to commit to being somewhere and being present, you know, you've got a real sense of belonging. And now the fourth shapage, please. This is lovely.

Mary Van Eker:

The fourth one is parenting, I suppose. We came into parenting, I didn't really want children, and then it just sort of happened. And you get you get this baby and you bring it home, and we plonked our first child in in the middle of the living room, sort of looked at her and thought, what are we supposed to do with her? And it from that moment on, you know, 20 odd years later, 26 years later, my life has just been shaped around being a parent. It tests you to your absolute limit. You know, at one point, yeah, I mean, at one point we have four children in four different schools, and they were all, you know, not independent at that point. And it was just the oh, I mean, if I think about it now, how we even got through on a daily basis, I have no idea. It was absolutely phenomenal. So it tests you to your limit, it tests your resolve, it just absolutely tests your anger management, you know, from a point where you just take a deep breath and start again because being angry is a no-go to anybody. But gee, with being a parent, the worst, it brings out the worst and the absolute best in you.

Chris Grimes:

You didn't know you wanted one, and then four popped out is a is a pretty much of a parental commitment, I have to say.

Mary Van Eker:

My husband and I are both the middle of three children, and we always knew that we didn't want to have three children. So two never felt, we never felt done with two. You know, some people just say, Yeah, I've got the perfect family now. But it took us 10 years to we had two very quickly together, and then it took us 10 years to decide on if we're gonna go again, we need to go again. So we had another two. So we've got two one year apart, we've got another two one year apart, 10 years between the two sets.

Chris Grimes:

So 26 is the oldest one. So what's the what's the age, what's the gamut of ages that you are matriarch over?

Mary Van Eker:

26 and 24, 10-year gap, then we've got 16-year-old and 15-year-old. We've got three girls and one boy. Yeah. Absolute love of my lives, uh, and my husband, of course, but they the joy, the happiness, the desire to want the best for them. Oh, I mean, it's just uh, you know, I pour everything into them, they're just my world. Absolutely.

Chris Grimes:

The passion keeps on exuding. This is wonderful. Okay, now that's the four things that have shaped you. Now, three things that inspire you now, Mary Van Eker. So I'm gonna say my mum and dad.

Mary Van Eker:

So my dad in particular, so tell the story again. He grew up in the tenements in the 40s in Liverpool, Scotty Road, those people who are from Liverpool will know that. And it was um a very sort of um deprived area of Liverpool. He then left school at 14, went on to the docks and did the same job that his dad had done. And from there, during the, I think he was in his 30s, 70s, 80s, they started to look at the docks and the work was very infrequent. He was desperately trying to provide for me and my sisters and his family. And he decided to take redundancy. He happened to be in on one of these days when they were making Dockers Redundant, and uh a post office guy came in and started talking about the post office. He wasn't supposed to be in on that day, it was really fortuitous that he happened to be in on that day. Something stuck with him, and this man who was only educated up until the age of 14 decided then I'm gonna apply to be a sub-postmaster and blow me down a few years later, he actually got a post post office. I mean, the audacity of the man, the confidence of the man, the determination of the man to just think I'm gonna do that with no backing. He was an only child, he'd lost his mum, he'd only had his dad who, you know, wasn't particularly involved. So he did this all off his own back. And it's only, I suppose, when you're a parent trying to provide for your family that you think blind. What how he's done that, I have no idea. Not only did he do that, but years later, he then, him and my mum were both postmasters of two post officers, he went into partnership, he bought a big house in the suburbs of Liverpool, he sent his children to. I was very, very fortunate and privileged to go to private school, he had a mobile home in the lake district. You know, all of these things just came from this very humble beginning. And I think people watching, if my dad can do it with as little support and education that he did, anybody can do it. You just need the vision, the determination, and the audacity to think I'm gonna have a gun.

Chris Grimes:

Vision, determination, and audacity. What great qualities to recommend to the world.

Mary Van Eker:

Absolutely.

Chris Grimes:

And what's your dad's name?

Mary Van Eker:

Frank Duff. And he was impacted by the Horizon scandal. I was going to ask that. We lost everything, family dissolved, all of the rest of it. It's been quite hard on him for the last 20 odd years, but he has now been compensated. Too little, too late, in my opinion. Mum's not well now, so it's a bit of a shame. But yeah, just the fact that he was able to give us that start in life. And I then had this sense of well, if dad can do it, anyone can do it. And I had this world opened up. Up to me, which I wouldn't have had without him and my mom.

Chris Grimes:

So he was so your family were absolutely embroiled in the in the whole scandal to do with the post office? Yeah. Wow. And had had a happy resolution now because there's news about that just today.

Mary Van Eker:

Yeah. Alan Bates got his compensation yesterday. Yeah. My dad's been compensated, but only last year. He's now in his 80s. He can't travel. My mum can't travel. So they've they have missed out on a life. But do you know, do you know? I being a coach, we can't really think about what happened in the past. We've just got to make the best of now and move forward. So he's trying to make the best of it. He's booking his holidays and he's trying to do what he can now. So yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Which reminds me of that coaching adage, do what you can with what you have now. And that's such a good philosophy and a way to pull yourself forward. In an extraordinary sort of coincidence of the universe, my wife is very best friends with Toby Jones's wife. And so the man who played Mr. Post Office, Toby Jones, is someone I know quite well.

unknown:

Wow.

Mary Van Eker:

Yeah, he represented us and the families beautifully. Both me and my dad weren't teas watching that. Yeah, it was amazing.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful father mentioned there in the influencing. And a next influencing thing.

Mary Van Eker:

Definitely, my kids inspire me. I mean, I think about them as a toolbox. They just, whatever you need, we are like that as a family. We're very sort of the six of us are just a really have got a really close bond. I suppose moving away from home as well, we've just had to, you know, galvanize around each other. But I think of them as a toolbox, they're so very different. Not one of them is anything like the other. We have kindness, compassion, a sense of social just injustice with one. We've got strength, determination, passion, and quirkiness with another. We've got um creativity, artistic, dance, just a general good egg, and all around takes everything in a stride, just doesn't get phased by anything in another. And one of them is just the craziest, funniest. Oh God, if you ever need you, whatever you need, you know, the world just putting right, she could just get you with one comment. This is the child who at one point during our our dinner about 10 years ago, she was about five or six. We turn around and she had a piece of bread on the end of her nose, and we say, What are you doing? She said, No, she's Catherine's not here at the moment. This is awesome bread nose. And she's just continued to eat her dinner with some bread nose. She's just the cookiest, craziest, loveliest person, a human being. Yeah. So my my children are definitely my inspiration. If ever there is, you know, anything I want to share with them, they're the first people I share it with my husband. Yeah, so they definitely inspire me. The things that they they do and can do inspires me every day.

Chris Grimes:

Your sense of pride is your sense of pride is just beautiful. Love that. Also, describing your children as a toolbox. I just have to congratulate you for that because they all equip you good.

Speaker 1:

But they just give you something, they all give something, you know, they they make make the world better for me, yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Your family is a majestic toolbox with each one having a very different but very, very essential function. I love that. You're allowed a third thing that inspired you now. So the third thing?

Mary Van Eker:

So I've touched briefly on it earlier, but it's women in general. I am absolutely blown away by women, supporting women against the backdrop of oppression, repression, suppression. I'm just blown away by my friendship group. They are incredible. I've got a beautiful group of women in the village where I live, haven't lived here long, only five years, and they absolutely we galvanize around each other. If anyone needs anything, there will be a package delivered on the doorstep. No, no fuss, no drama, no nothing. If someone needs support, you know, they'll be and they're having a tough time, someone will make them dinner and deliver it to their door. If anyone goes away on holiday, we'll keep an eye on their house. They're just incredible women in the village, women in the workplace, oh, all the places that I've ever worked at. I have beautiful friendship groups from each and every one of them. And I must say that one of the highlights of my career was I did a women in leadership course, hosted it for a group of my nearest and dearest at the start of the year. And on the final day, it was like a mic drop. It was my, it was just the most inspirational five weeks of my life, bringing all of my network together from far and near, someone from the village, someone from SSE, someone from all the companies that I've ever worked for and beyond, and having them come together as a group and thoroughly enjoy and get out of that leadership course what they needed, slightly similar to the Me I Forgot program, similar to that. But the fact that I was able to host that and and facilitate that for those women was just a joy, uh a pleasure, and it was just a career highlight for me. I think it in my life, in my career probably, and in my life, women have just always come up Trumps. I'm blown away by their resourcefulness, by their tenacity, their determination, their can-do attitude, their love and support for their fellow women. I spoke at a women in tech event a couple of weeks ago and it was just incredibly supportive. You know, all of all of the people that I used to work with were there. I'm just thinking about all of the different women who have been and meant something in my life. And I want to tell you all now, I love you all dearly. You have really held a special place in my heart. You know who you are, because I tell you all the time what you mean to me and how much I love you. So yeah, just incredible.

Chris Grimes:

May I also say it makes such sense that you've decided to craft be by your side coaching because you're such a strong women's advocate, but also be by your side is about pulling you all forward as a sort of a tribe of galvanizing awesomeness. It's fantastic.

Mary Van Eker:

And actually, Chris, the times that have been the most rewarding have been the times when it's been toughest. So this isn't just a superficial happiness, you know, thing. These are all genuine life experiences that we hold each other up. And I've been very privileged and honored to be by the side of lots of my women as they go through those dark times or they go through those tough times. So gosh, I'm getting emotional about it. But it was really important to me to come up with a title that reflected that. So I will be by your side no matter what you're going through. It's really important to me. Let me take a moment.

Chris Grimes:

So eloquently put. And again, it's it's your superpower, is the vulnerability, because that's the power that's driving your desire to be by your side, but also the me I forgot programme that we're really here to amplify.

Mary Van Eker:

It's an honour and a pleasure, and I do not take it lightly. You know, some of the coaching is goes, I was talking to this a brilliant woman divorce coach yesterday about it, but there are unqualified coaches out there. And I do not take it lightly when I enter into a coaching programme or a one-to-one coaching session. It's an absolute privilege and honour to walk alongside anyone. I coach, not just women, but I am particularly passionate about women because I think we do need to redress the balance. Don't get me started there, Blimey. It won't be tears. But yeah, we do need to redress the balance in terms of women in STEM in particular, which is my passion area.

Chris Grimes:

Yes. Wonderful. Now we're on to two things, your two squirrels or monsters of distraction. Squirrels, you know, borrow from the film art when the dog goes, Oh, squirrels. So, what two things never fail to grab your attention? Squirrels, irrespective of anything else that might be going on for you in your hectic, eclectic, and wonderfully invigorating life.

Mary Van Eker:

Well, the first thing is it's a bit of a weird one, really, but Instagram reels are a thing that I'm I'm aware of and annoyingly getting more involved in. And there's one particular woman, she's an older lady called Nancy Bertwistle, and she is on a mission to um create and live a life that is a reusable and repurposed one. So, I mean, this year, I don't know why this year, but I found myself making applesauce, pecked in out of apples. I found myself inspired by her, making washing laundry detergent from guess what, Conker's, another one from Ivy Leaves. I know you've heard it here first. I've been making stem ginger. Oh god, someone needs to stop me. Honestly, the cupboard is full of weird and wonderful things. I made a pesto from nettles, it was not great. It's got to be said, some of the stuff has really not been good. I've made slow gin.

Chris Grimes:

Are you doing your own insta reels off the back of that?

Mary Van Eker:

So now you've got your own uh Mary Van Eker reel off the back of someone did suggest it last week because the things that I'm making, slow gin, for example, and um apple chutney, we've got an orchard in the village, and I'll come home with another basket of apples and think, what can I do with this this time?

Chris Grimes:

Oh, you're you're a scrumper, as they say. You're scrumping apples. I love that.

Mary Van Eker:

Absolutely. So Nancy Burtwistle, shout out for Nancy, she's incredible. She, I mean, she waxes her drackets, uh, rewaxes her jackets using the candle wax. I mean, she's just phenomenal.

Speaker 1:

And she's on a she's got a book out, she's been on loose swimming and things like that.

Chris Grimes:

You must send this episode to Nancy Bertwistle to give her the official shout out because she sounds like she's a force of nature like you. She is. So you're not selling the uh the the the neth the nettle pesto didn't sound too good, but anyway.

Speaker 1:

I wouldn't recommend that. Nor the other stuff as well. My stuff doesn't turn out like hers, but hey, I'm having a go.

Chris Grimes:

Doesn't turn out like Nancy Bertwistles, as they say. Now you're allowed a second squirrel. So what what's your second squirrel?

Mary Van Eker:

So the second one isn't as much fun as that, but what I do have a sense of, and I've touched on it earlier, is the things that get my attention are the oppression for against women. And it's just, I suppose being a woman, you are just uh sorry, it's just not the fun Nancy Burt whistle squirrel, but in the news, you know, Afghanistan women aren't allowed an education, or women are being, you know, the sexual organs are being removed in Uganda, for example. You know, just people, women who when they are being formed as a baby, a cell decides whether they become a male or a female. We're all be all born, we're all we all start life as female. And it's that one chromosome that decides then what the background of your story is going to be. And I don't think there's a woman in the world who doesn't walk home at night being consciously aware that a man or you know, my mum might be coming up behind her, you know, coming from Liverpool, I always have my keys on me. I think we're just as attuned to that. But being a woman in particular, I think every time something comes on the news, it's just another magnet to me to drive forward, to to to fight for for women's rights, to redress the balance. The world is created for a man, and I'm not man-bashing at all, at all, at all. But all I'm saying is that I'm just acutely aware of that. It is something that grabs my attention and it is the squirrel. You know, there's something every day that comes on the news about uh a woman being repressed, whatever, whatever. I'm taking a dark turn now, but it's it's just the you know, just the subliminal story, really, that I'm just acutely aware that I've got three daughters myself, and I don't know what what the answer is, and I don't know what the future is, but having great male allies and raising sons who appreciate the value and worth of a woman as much as a man and having that equality is very, very important to me. That's what I think.

Chris Grimes:

Again, very eloquently put. I love the fact you've got a gritty squirrel alongside a playful squirrel. Yeah. And it gives a fierceness. This is a compliment, it gives a fierceness to you, uh, you know, as a galvanizer and supporter of women, which is really powerful. And now we're going to talk about the one, which is a quirky or unusual fact about you, Mary Van Ica. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

Mary Van Eker:

There's probably two. I have the pointtiest elbows in the history of pointy elbows. We call them WNDs, weapons, mass destruction. That's probably the one thing, boring thing about me, really, but they are super sharp. My poor children have come into uh some sort of uh hurtful situation because of them in the past. And the second thing probably is um, I'm breaking your format now, Chris, but uh a fact people won't know is that Linda Laplant, famously the author of Prime Suspect, the Helen Miriam show, uh she went to my school.

Chris Grimes:

That's a cool extra fact. There you go. And I I don't doubt you used your sharp elbows when advocating for women. Come on, it's about giving us the space. I love that.

Mary Van Eker:

Well, metaphor, yeah, I suppose it's a good metaphor, isn't it? Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. We've shaken your tree. Hurrah! Now we stay in the clearing, uh, move away from the tree, and now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold. You're giving me this by the bucket load in any case, but when you're at purpose and in flow, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Mary Van Eker:

I am happiest when I am with a client, whether that's a group or it's on a one-off one-to-one basis. And I'm using my skills and experience and my eclectic coaching toolkit to see a breakthrough in the person that's in front of me. And in those moments, the world stands still. There is a newfound insight, there is a realization, there is an aha moment, beautiful aha moment, the face moves up, and the person then has found something really useful, a nugget of gold that they are now aware of. They've they've got a new sense of self-awareness that they didn't have beforehand. And not only that, when I hold that space, we go deeper and we start to unlock the deeper parts of the brain that is the problem-solving part of the brain. So in life, we are superficial, believe it or not, we don't think a lot in our day-to-day lives. We go through, we we rely a lot on routine and you know, everyday routine of life and rhythm of life. And it's only in those sacred spaces, in those pauses, where we are being given the time to stop, to think deeply, to think about things in a way that you've never thought about them before, to think about things. I I think about it, you know, as iron man, when he looks at things and he pulls it apart and he's able to see it from different perspectives. That's what happens in those moments where someone's looking at something from the underside of something they've never seen that before, and they have a new insight. And with that new insight, often the silence and magic happens, Chris, and it is the most fulfilling, selfishly fulfilling space to be, where someone realizes something and has that insight. Oh, I could do that, or oh, I hadn't thought of that before. And oh, now that I've had that thought, here's a load of other stuff that is now unlocked. It's like you go into these beautiful little parts of the brain and unlock them piece by piece, and only in those thinking spaces, Nancy Klein has this book called Time to Think, and she talks about holding space. The uncomfortableness, if that's a word, of silence is where the magic happens. It is just profound, and that is when I'm in flow. That is when me and my client, me and my group are just unlocking deeply profound thoughts, ideas, and insights that they've never thought of before. Because in coaching, just to take that thought a bit further, we believe that all of the answers lie within ourselves. We know what we need to do, we just don't know where the answer is within ourselves. And it's our job as coaches and my job as a coach to unlock that and take them to those places so that they can they can realise that and understand where it's coming from.

Chris Grimes:

Deliberate invocation of silence there. And also, what's so lovely in researching you, I know you have a deep desire which is coming across so authentically, where you're imperative every woman who joins you in Be by Your Side and the Me, I Forgot program feels more like her brilliant, authentic, and perfect self by the end of it.

Mary Van Eker:

Absolutely. Because I think as a woman, again, you adapt and change to fit in with your environment, whether that's work, family, culturally, socially, whatever it is. And my job then is to say, who are you? Let's discover who you are, what you want, what you want. That is such an interesting question in coach and Chris. Do you think it sounds easy? But asking someone, what do you want? These are really great people in leadership, these are highly qualified, successful people often don't know what they want. And it's my job then to allow them to feel authentic. And what happens when you feel authentic and you're able to find rediscover yourself, which is part of my program, is that oh, lightness occurs, you throw off the shackles and the baggage of trying to be someone that you're not, and you stand proud and you're able to go forth with authenticity and um a sense of self and you feel like yourself again.

Chris Grimes:

And now I'm gonna award you with a cake. Hurrah! So, first of all, do you like cake, Mary Van Ecker? Eka? Doesn't like cake. I mean, yes, absolutely. So your your uh your dog might enjoy this. I think it's a doggy cake, actually, but it's a carrot cake with a bit of a cherry on top. So this is a final suffused with a storytelling metaphor, where you get to put a cherry on the cake now with stuff like what's a favourite inspirational quote at Mary that's always given you succor and pulled you towards your future? I think have a go.

Mary Van Eker:

It's uh it's easy to procrastinate and think that you know perfectionism is what you need, but have a go, learn from it. Um in my day job, I'm an agile coach. So have a go, learn from the feedback, take the feedback, not as criticism and to self, but actually as those things that are gonna make you even better or make the product even better. So have a go. You never know what's gonna happen. If it's rubbish, it's rubbish, learn from it. If it's good, do more stuff like that. It's brilliant.

Chris Grimes:

Lovely. With the gift of hindsight, what notes, help, or advice might you proffer to a younger version of Mary Van Eker? And you can decide how old you are when you go back in time to wrap your arms around yourself and give you this sage words of advice.

Mary Van Eker:

Oh, that's so interesting, actually, Chris, because I did a bit of coaching on myself when I started my own business because I was afraid of putting myself out there and being seen and visible and being, you know, being it cringy on social media and whatever. And I did a coaching exercise where I took myself back to being a child, age five or six in the 70s. And this little child, this little May, as my family call me, was always told little girl should be seen and not heard. Yes. And I think internally, women carry that little girl should be seen and not heard into so I did some brilliant coaching techniques with me. I clamped her onto me, I told her it was all gonna be okay, and you've got this. And I think those would be the words of advice that I go back in time and tell myself that it's okay as a woman, as anyone in this world, to be seen and heard. Take up space, you're here, do what you need to do, don't worry about it.

Chris Grimes:

Lovely. And now we're ramping up to Shakespeare shortly to talk about uh legacy, but uh, why don't we at this point find out where we can find out all about you on the old internet? So I'm just gonna first of all, it's show us your QR code, please. So this is you, Mary. And if you're watching, you can scan this QR code. So just talk us through where people need to go, if you're just listening and not watching, to find you, Mary Van Ecker, for your Ika, for your be by your side coaching program.

Mary Van Eker:

Absolutely. So if you scan this QR code, it will take you through to my website and it's the landing page of the Me I Forgot program. I do focus on women. The Me I Forgot program is for the over 45s, women in leadership and group away days as well. So I'm a corporate veteran and an agile coach. So I provide and facilitate away days for small and medium businesses in the corporate world. So use the QR code to go to my website. There's a contact page there as well that will take you straight through to an email and I will absolutely respond. I'm very busy on LinkedIn, I tend to be on LinkedIn all of the time. So please do uh find me on LinkedIn as well. There you go. Look as if by magic.

Chris Grimes:

And then there you are. There's a second QR code now to find at Mary on LinkedIn as well. Also, I love the fact in researching you, you call yourself an agile evangelist, which is a lovely expression. And in terms of personal branding and operator words, saying something that makes the audience go, wait, what? So just unpack agile evangelist for me.

Mary Van Eker:

I'm so glad you brought this up, actually, because working at SSE, we were a juggernaut of a company and we were trying to bring in cloud technology. And I pioneered that in the IT department. But with cloud technology, you need to then introduce a different delivery methodology, which is called Agile. So for anyone who doesn't know it, Agile is essentially about breaking things down into the smallest possible component. It's a bit like a psychological tick list. You know, you feel really good about yourself when you go through your tick list. Well, we use nice software, we use Kanban boards, we use software to move things across the board. We tend to work in two or three week sprints. I introduced that at SSE. I moved house with that. We decided to move house because we created a backlog of things that we need to do in the house and thought, actually, there's too much stuff there, let's just move house. And it's so you can apply, it's a it's applicable in all in all phases of life. And we we my husband will say what's in the backlog, and we we size things, small, medium, large. We take, we, we talk about um whether it takes an hour, half a day a day, and we all move it across the board. So, you know, I apply it in all different parts of my life in a simplistic way, but I've done agile at scale as well. We brought in off-gen switching program back in the energy days, and uh that was done uh agile at scale using software. And it's funny, Chris. It's I bet you're sorry you asked me this question actually, because my extensive experience of agile, the uh meetings that you have, your daily stand-ups and the retros, and all of those things, and the software that you use are the easy bits. The hard bits are the people who implement it. So the hard bits is psychologically getting people to the scrum, and scrum is where everybody is equal. There is a quality, there is no one senior developer, we are all equal, and that takes a lot of ego. So you have to remove your ego to be part of the team, to be just just an equal with everyone else. So psychological change is a really interesting, I wouldn't even say byproduct, but a really interesting part and parcel of implementing agile well. You can do agile or you can be agile. A lot of people do agile and they're not necessarily being agile. So my job as an agile coach is to coach the being agile and understanding the psychological blockers.

Chris Grimes:

Thank you for unpacking that so eloquently. Again, your eloquence is just sublime. And now, just before we do the Shakespeare, this is the past, the golden batten moment, please. As you've experienced the good listening to show Stories of Distinction from Within, who might you like to pass the golden baton along to to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going, uh, Mary?

Mary Van Eker:

Oh gosh, I haven't really thought this one through, but I would suggest um a fantastic woman, bizarre story. Um, but I would say Sue ParmaCobb. She has got a whole load of stories to tell. She doesn't know it yet. I probably need to prime her, but yes, I would suggest that Sue would be an excellent person to get onto this podcast.

Chris Grimes:

Sue Parmacobb, did you say?

Mary Van Eker:

Yes. She is uh divorce coach, she's set up the divorce coach academy, which is one of the only ones in the country. She saw a gap in the market, and uh she now coaches coaches to be divorce coaches to help um people going through divorce and that terrible sort of crisis time, you know, it's a very stressful time of life, so very worthwhile. And I met up with her yesterday. Crazy coincidence that she happened to used to be my science teacher at school.

Speaker 1:

I don't even know how that bizarre coincidence occurred, but we didn't realise that until we started talking to each other yesterday. And it's a tiny little school on the outskirts of Liverpool, so who defunct it?

Chris Grimes:

But yeah, she defunct it. Wonderful. And now, inspired by Shakespeare, all the worlds of steed and all the men and women, mealy players, borrowing from the seven ages of man's speech, Mary Ivan Eker, when all is said and done, how would you most like to be remembered?

Mary Van Eker:

Wow, I think my legacy is my children. I mean, they are just if if I can leave four beautiful citizens to go forth into the world, that's all I'm looking for, really. Just really good eggs. Four good eggs, my children, my legacy.

Chris Grimes:

And may I just congratulate you, you too. That that legacy is secured because you are a beautiful citizen yourself.

Mary Van Eker:

Thank you, Chris.

Chris Grimes:

Majestic and trailblazing. So um I'll ask you one other question in a second, just a couple of announcements from me. If you'd like a conversation about guesting in the show, too, the website for the show, here's another show as your QR code, please, is the goodlistening to show.com. There are a number of different series strands. This has been a founder story episode. The really exciting uh podcast uh series structure format is called Legacy Life Reflections, which is to record your own story or the life story of someone that you love or that's near dear or precious to you for posterity, lest we forget before it's too late, using the unique, and I hope Mary has experienced thoroughly enjoyable storytelling structure of the show. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn too, hurrah! As if by magic, another QR code and now disappears. So, Mary Van Eker, your program is The Me I Forgot. BebyyourSideCoaching.com is where we're going to point people to. But as this has been your moment in the sunshine in the good listening to shows, stories of distinction and genius, founder stories, is there anything else you'd like to say?

Mary Van Eker:

I would like to say that I have one piece of advice that an old boy in SSE told me once, and that is when you're cutting in with painting, remember to breathe. It's a very important piece of advice.

Chris Grimes:

Just say that again because it was beautiful and worth reincorporating. Say it again when you're cutting in when you're painting. You need to remember to breathe. Love that. Just remember to breathe, people is great coaching advice of itself. I've been Chris Grimes, but most importantly, this has been the delightful, the passionate, the loyal, the grounded, the sense of belonging that you've brought is really wonderful and profound. Mary Van Eker. Anything else else you'd like to say?

Mary Van Eker:

Have a go, guys. You never know unless you try. Have a go, see where we'll see where it goes. That's what I did when I started up my business.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. Thank you very much indeed. I'll stop recording there. Good night. You've been listening to the Good Listening to Show with me, Chris Grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how, care of the series strands at the GoodlisteningToShow.com website. And one of these series strands is called Brand Strand Founder Stories. For business owners like you to be able to tell your company story, talk about your purpose, and amplify your brand. Together we get into the who, the what, the how, the why you do what you do, and then crucially, we find out exactly where we can come and find you to work with you and to book your services. Tune in next week for more stories from the clearing. And don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.