The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Founder Story: Calm Down Darling! The Art of 'Slowing Down in a Frantic World' with Specialist PR Expert, Josh Wheeler from Be Broadcast: "You don't need to go at a 1,000 mph to succeed!"

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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When Josh Wheeler founded Be Broadcast PR 3 years ago, he was determined to create something different—a PR agency focused not just on securing media coverage, but on telling meaningful stories that unite rather than divide. His journey from a tiny village in the West Midlands to becoming a broadcast PR specialist offers fascinating insights into what truly matters in communication.

(Josh joined Chris Grimes in the Show to 'experience the format from within' to explore the possibility of lending his PR expertise to Chris's special new series-strand to the Show, 'Legacy Life Reflections': To record their or your Life Story, for posterity. "Lest we forget...Before its too late")

During this intimate conversation, Josh reveals how some of his most formative experiences came not from formal education or corporate training, but from early jobs like making tea in a care home at age 11 and working the tills at Tesco. These roles taught him that despite our apparent differences, people from all walks of life share fundamental similarities—a philosophy that now informs Be Broadcast's approach to storytelling.

Josh speaks candidly about his struggles with burnout, discovering that "being busy doesn't necessarily mean being fulfilled," and the challenge of finding balance in a high-pressure industry. His advice to slow down and "be more swan-like"—appearing calm while paddling furiously beneath the surface—offers valuable wisdom for anyone navigating today's frenetic workplace culture.

What makes this episode particularly compelling is Josh's perspective on human connection in an age increasingly dominated by artificial intelligence. While acknowledging AI's transformative potential, he reminds us that technology should complement rather than replace authentic human interaction: "We need to remember our place in all of that."

Whether you're a PR professional or simply someone interested in how we communicate and connect in an increasingly fragmented world, Josh's insights about building businesses with integrity, finding inspiration in "scrappy, imperfect people," and creating work environments that prioritize people over profit will resonate deeply. His call to action—to speak to neighbors, smile at strangers, and engage with people outside our usual circles—offers a simple but powerful antidote to our increasingly isolated digital lives.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Chris Grimes:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the Clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin. Boom. Welcome to a very, very special day here in the Good Listening To Show clearing.

Chris Grimes:

I'm Chris Grimes, motivational comedian mojo coach, and I am the curator of the Good Listening To show. Today is exciting because Josh Wheeler is from bbroadcastcouk, a broadcast PR expert specialising, obviously, in media relations. I was introduced to the lovely Josh Wheeler by Nina Webb, who is the queen of brazen PR. The CEO is the queen of brazen pr, the ceo she's similarly. Um oasis are in cardiff tonight, but both josh and nina's entity brazen are in manchester mad for it, and josh wheeler has very excitingly agreed to experience a particular series strand called legacy life reflections from within, with a desire to see if we can sort of help and work together and blow some happy smoke reciprocally, which is very exciting. So, josh Wheeler, welcome to the show.

Josh Wheeler:

Thank you, Chris. I wouldn't say Nina is the Queen of Brazen, she's the Queen of Manchester. I would say so to be honest, and I think that Nina kind of says to me it's already got my kind of gold stamp of approval on.

Chris Grimes:

So yeah, I think this should, this should be fun and she's had a glow up right there, not just the queen of brazen, but the queen of manchester. That's fantastic, lovely, so welcome to the show. We've just had a very nice exchange where you've got livid about two things the potential speed of the wi-fi, and then what's the other thing. Just to share with us that you got absolutely lit. You were on a scale from naught to livid. Not not about us, but what made you livid else, josh can you tell, I'm a little bit dramatic at times.

Josh Wheeler:

I was livid because we were talking about holiday and I'd been away in crete a couple of months back and it was rainy the first couple of days. So rather than I was, I was, I was livid, I was really annoyed and rather than keep being livid, I was like annoyed, and rather than keep being a little bit, I was like I'm just gonna, I'm gonna find somewhere. That's just gonna be hot, it's gonna be sunny, it's gonna be like that. There's no way it can be anything else. And so I'm going away on monday to somewhere hot. So I was just saying that's it. Most things that I do are driven just on the basis that I'm annoyed about and I can love the picture of you in Crete shaking your fist.

Chris Grimes:

Why I order the sky? It makes you absolutely livid, which is fantastic. When we first met a couple of months ago, what was so striking was how empathic you were with my sort of cut and thrust of Legacy Life Reflections, because you'd done quite a bit within the hospice sector, one of the many, many award-winning projects you've been involved in since 2010. But just just position um, first of all be broadcast. What's the story behind the story of that and how long are you into that so?

Josh Wheeler:

be broadcast is coming up to its third birthday. We are a a specialist broadcast pr agency, and what that means is we work with brands, individuals, organizations, charities. We work with people that have got something to say, and what we overlay in that is that we're keen on social purpose, we're keen on things that are going to bring good to the world. On things that are going to bring good to the world, we move away and we keep a distinct focus away from things that aim to kind of drive division, even unintentionally. We're just hyper aware of the role that we get to play, the really important position of taking stories and bringing them to media and the power that we we have. So we kind of avoid things that look at generational divides where one generation is being kind of cut and one isn't. We try to look at the things that unite us and uh, and focus in on those aspects instead and it's, it's doable, it's completely doable.

Josh Wheeler:

We don't need to be, you know, attacking gen z or millennials or whoever, because, as far as I'm aware, everyone quite likes avocados. Um, you know, from from my memory, you know, when I was a young millennial, you know we were being attacked for eating avocados and at the time, I remember thinking, well, I can't even afford an avocado. Uh, so that that kind of experience drives us in in that direction. So we, we're really lucky. We work with some amazing organizations, amazing people that are kind of committed to doing the same things as us, getting great stories out there, helping brands and organizations grow and develop. And, as you say, we've worked on some incredible things that have then gone on to win awards. And we're just really lucky. And we're just really lucky and it's born from working in the industry since 2010 and looking at it, having deep experience in areas and looking and thinking how we can do things differently. A little bit more human, I think, is what we bring to it you're so intrinsically collaborative.

Chris Grimes:

You use the word we there so often, so may I ask the size ofcast? How many of you are there in the sort of royal we that you're using?

Josh Wheeler:

So there are four of us full time and then we have a team of freelancers that we bring in that are basically kind of with us for the charge and we pick up and scale up and down where we need to, and the aim is that we keep growing in the direction of travel that we are. We've got, I'd say, we've got big growth plans. The aim is that we keep growing in the direction of travel that we are. I'd say we've got big growth plans. We're not an organization that is ever going to scale and be huge. It's not my intention. I don't see the need or the point for that. We're growing in a way that is right for us. I don't want to say we're a family agency with all the connotations that come of that, but where I wanted to go is to become a family of brands that feed into each other and provide a really important place within the market, and I think we're absolutely on that, on that journey and happy third birthday.

Chris Grimes:

And there's the final thing to say about that if you're livid, you can even smash an avocado. So come on. So let me get you on the open road of what we're going to be doing together. There's a bit of a hybrid. I've already described we're doing a founder story to talk about. All things be broadcast. But also you've given me permission to take you extra deep into legacy life reflections.

Chris Grimes:

So just to explain that, this is the show in which, as a sort of helicopter overview, I invite movers, makers, shakers, shakers, mavericks, influencers and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place of my guests, choosing as they share with us their stories of distinction and genius within that story scape brand strand.

Chris Grimes:

Founder stories is one way of taking a helicopter landing into the clearing, but this is legacy life reflections, without any morbid intention. This is to use the construct that josh and I are about to go through to record either your story or the story of somebody really precious to you for posterity, lest we forget before it's too late, and I'll explain at the end. My own father was a very willing first well, a willing guinea pig, uh, five years ago. My dad very sadly died last August. But he knew what I was up to and he's become a bit of a happy mascot for the idea that we all know when we've lost that precious, special someone, what we miss the most is what they sounded like the sound of their voice. So thank you for agreeing to let me take you through this sort of hybrid approach, josh.

Josh Wheeler:

I think it's incredible. I think that you've I've done things in hospices, in the, the care setting, but I've also done an awful lot in terms of, uh, later life planning and death, from a PR point of view and it's. I remember when I first started and I got brought into the account and I was like, oh god, oh god, how am I going to get radio which has a you know skews, slightly older demographic in some senses? How am I going to get radio which has a you know skews, slightly older demographic in some senses? How am I going to get them to talk about thinking about death and actually the the nervousness was completely wrong, because it's the way it's like with everything. It's the way you bring people into it and actually it's telling stories and getting people to open up and this is the perfect thing, and the story about your father.

Chris Grimes:

You can then listen back to it forever and that's beautiful I love that, the fact that the ultimate challenge is the grim reaper. Death needs a pr job, and you've stepped in and you've done that. That's one of the awards. Wonderful, we've actually made the grim reaper look good, which is fantastic. So, as I say, there is no morbid intention, because it's. It's also, I've been told, like having a day spa for your brain. So it's my absolute pleasure, josh wheeler, to invite you to have your own curated day spa for your brain. So should we get going then?

Chris Grimes:

let's do it so there's going to be a clearing a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called five, four, three, two, one. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, squirrels, squirrels a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, first of all, josh Wheeler, be Broadcast PR expert. Where is what is? And, interestingly, just before we went on air, you said this is what I struggled with the most, but where, would you say? Your clearing or serious happy place was when do you go to get clutter free?

Josh Wheeler:

inspirational and able to think. I really struggled with this one because I was thinking about the way that my mind works and in many ways it's been. It works in a really effective way. Um, uh, I feel that my, uh, my kind of like place where I can step out and kind of disconnect is the beach. And I don't just mean the beach on holiday, I also mean here in the uk. So I've got two dogs. I love being able to take them and like paddle in the sea, but it's the, it's really it's the only place that I'm able to just zoom out of everything and it just. I think there's something really about the water connection. There's something else about water. A bit later on that just really brings me out of my head which I thought how naff to say like another beach, but it kind of. It kind of is just to blow some extra happy smoke at you. That was not naff to say like another beach, but it kind of.

Chris Grimes:

It kind of is just to blow some extra happy smoke at you. That was not naff at all. Your, your, that has the whole seascape of pr as a huge vista stepping out before you and lots of voyages of discovery. It that made complete sense. So would you like to pin a you know that brilliant app? What three words would you like to pin yourself to? A particular beach? Or we just talking about generically the beach.

Josh Wheeler:

I would. You know what? I would maybe go Crosby Beach. It's the one that we go to the most and, yeah, good memories there like good fun, so I would go there.

Chris Grimes:

Lovely. And you said we again. We're not just talking about the two dogs there, who else are we going with?

Josh Wheeler:

my partner as well yeah, my partner lovely.

Chris Grimes:

So for those of us who aren't sort of totally, it's, it's up north is cosby beach, isn't it?

Josh Wheeler:

yeah, yeah, so it's about. So I'm based in manchester, it's about an hour away from us and it's the one with. You've probably seen it, like the statues. Ah, yes, and that's the one. Yeah, it's not. Do you know what it's? It's, it's a lovely beach. Is it the most beautiful beach? Probably not. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's where you like. I've taken the dogs and they've gone paddling and they're like axel's first experience of the water and, yeah, that, that, for me, is the place and I'm thinking gormley.

Chris Grimes:

Is that right? Is that the artist who's put the statues there? Is it john gormley? Yes, yeah, yeah. So there we are in cosby, if I got that right. Is that the artist who's put the?

Chris Grimes:

statues there is it, john, yes, yeah, yeah. So there we are in cosby, if I got that right, cosby beach or crosby as in, as in bing, lovely, yeah, bing bang, bosh, off we go, brilliant. So now I arrive with a tree in your clearing which, because of my hector background, is deliberately a bit waiting for goddo-esque, a bit existential. I'm going to shake a tree now to see which storytelling apples fall out. How do you like these apples? And you've been kind enough, josh, to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention, and borrow from the film Up where the dog goes oh squirrels, what are your monsters of distraction, sometimes called your shiny object syndrome? We'll get on to that. What never fails to distract you? And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us so. Over to you, josh. It's not a memory test, I'll curate you through it. So, four things that have shaped you.

Josh Wheeler:

So I think the first thing that I would say has shaped me is growing up in a tiny little village in the West Midlands where, ultimately, as an example, there was one bus into the nearest town that took 45 minutes to get there uh, once every two hours. So really disconnected, small, you know, could have, could have kind of gone in in a completely different direction. So I think one of the things that I just knew is that I I I wanted to see more, I wanted to experience more in the world. That has definitely shaped me. Not knocking the place at all, it's just one of those things that put me on a bit of a trajectory early on just before you move away from that, do you mind just naming the place?

Chris Grimes:

we're not shaming it, we're just saying that it was. It put you into a cul-de-sac.

Josh Wheeler:

You knew you needed to escape, which I completely understand exactly no escapes, not even the right word, but it kind of is. It's more just a case, case of. I knew I wasn't going to stay there forever and that was it. It's a little village called Kyneton, in between Stratford and Leamington in the West Midlands, royal Leamington Spa, officially Lovely place, but just it was almost like I was inside an egg that needed to be bigger. From then on I went straight from there to london and that's quite a shock to the senses, the kind of.

Josh Wheeler:

The next bit that I think shaped me is the people that I met when I was there so I'd kind of perhaps come in as a bit sort of rough and ready experience in the world. So you know pals at uni that you know you go to uni, you meet lots of different people with lots of different experiences, bringing you re, kind of guiding you but, but also people that I met in the world of work. So like one one chap that weirdly I connected up again this week with andy who taught me it's funny I was. I spoke to him about this recently. He taught me the notion of kind of just being cool and calm in situations.

Josh Wheeler:

I always looked at him. You know I would be flapping about things. He was my account director at the time. I would be flapping about things and he would always be. You know, just the air of cool and I'm so jealous of that. So I am jealous of that and actually it taught me that really is the ability looking at, looking at things and kind of seeing them for what they are and being able to do things. You can do things, but you don't need to get to a hundred miles per hour. That, I think, had a real impact on me and and changed the way that I've I've gone off. So I'm more of that kind of swan mentality, I think, where I try to provide everything's, everything's fine, it will be fine, this is what we're going to do.

Chris Grimes:

But underneath there's the majestic swan and what's and's second name, just to sort of give him the mention Andy Crisp. Nice, very good.

Josh Wheeler:

The third thing is the jobs that I had early on. Funnily enough, I don't look towards university or even kind of early PR-y jobs as necessarily that shaping, kind of early PR-y jobs, as necessarily that shaping. I look at more in terms of the focal points of what I did that helped me to see the broader world. So, for instance, I worked we talked about it. I worked at a care home when I was 11, 12, I think, and I was a tea boy. I used to finish school and I would go to the care home and I would make tea and I used to get 50 pounds a month and I thought I was rich. I thought I was rich 50 pounds a month making tea for an hour. I'd go around, serve and then collect up and wash up the cups and actually what I was rich in was the skill set of being able to talk to people, lots of people who were non people, lots of people who were non-verbal, lots of people who were poorly and unable to kind of communicate, and then lots of people that just really wanted to communicate and wanted to share stories and get to know people. We also dealing with people with things like Alzheimer's and incredibly awful situation, but just being able to realize that people are not that different, there's not a lot that divides us in lots of ways. And then from that, when I got a little bit older, I went and became a till boy at Tesco and loved Tesco. It's my favorite brand of all time and I still shop there.

Josh Wheeler:

But I worked there on saturdays and sundays and it again it reinforced this notion that actually you don't need to be afraid of talking to this person or that person. You know that person could be a millionaire, that person could be, you know, whatever it could, it could be anybody. But ultimately we were all pretty much buying the same fruit and veg, same products. You know, if there was a promotion on, most people bought that thing, and so I got to see really quickly how actually we are pretty much alike and I think that's. Those sorts of learnings have taken us to where be broadcast is today like it's it's. How can we unite people over the things that we've got in common and tell those stories, as opposed to finding the things that we don't have in common and picking, you know, picking apart, and that's that's why I think we work wonderful answer.

Josh Wheeler:

I love that, yes and I think the final thing that has shaped me is somewhere in the middle and it's it's, it's the realization that probably came a bit too late in in my career, but it probably came that being busy doesn't necessarily mean being fulfilled. So there were were periods of my career where I felt a need to just be on a wheel and I needed to do everything at a thousand miles per hour and my brain totally allowed that and probably before it was it had a term, was was kind of getting close towards burnout. So that focus on you know I can take that on, I can do this, I can do that and I'm going to pull all these things together and then letting that hit you is quite rough. So that bit that realization is is the probably the final kind of chapter of things that have shaped me getting that cemented.

Chris Grimes:

It's not, it's not perfect, but getting much, much better at balancing all of that and self-awareness being the holy grail in your timeline, to the point when you realized well, because you are wired to go fast, that's a very in deep skill and ability and capability. You talked about andy, giving you more of a zen approach, if you like, to being calmer, but on your journey, how long ago was the um encroachment towards burnout?

Josh Wheeler:

Well, there's been a couple of times, there's been a couple of points where I think I had the realization, probably about five or six years ago, and I probably put it into action just before I started BeBroadcast, where, so, during the pandemic, working in in broadcast was really rough, not because of the like a downturn, but actually the opposite. It was an upturn, uptick even in the sense that we were all at home, so people were, you know, in brand mind. People were watching tv, listening to the radio more, and they were. We saw the results of that and so actually the work probably tripled.

Josh Wheeler:

But the work also went from being, you know, telling stories about how to unite us to informing people how they can have a funeral, how they can say goodbye to their loved one without having a funeral, and I think that takes its toll, and it certainly did on me. And when we started to come out of lockdown, the whole process, I mean, I sort of looked and reflected and thought I just want to do something. I want to do something different. I want to have a little bit of more meaning in what we do.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, and also just in researching you before today, I was very struck with your most recent LinkedIn post, which is about reminding us, in this sort of wave and a torrent of AI coming at us like a sort of tidal wave, to remember, to remember to still remain human and connecting, and I noticed how you were referencing you know historical imperatives of the Luddites when the looms arrived and you know the robotic burger flippers of the land and and we always assume doom and gloom, but actually we always need people and we always need relationships we always do.

Josh Wheeler:

We always do and we always need to, to tell stories, which is why I quite like this. We need to tell stories and and I think because I was thinking about this and I was I love history. I find it fascinating and and and when I look at those things, the kind of the perception is that this happened and then this happened, when actually the reality is not always as clear-cut. And I think that the ai is just another one of those moments. It's just another one of those moments. It's going to change everything. It is changing everything, but we just have to remember our place in all of that.

Josh Wheeler:

And I think it's so easy to jump straight to, you know, uh, job cuts. Jump straight to this because this is going to solve all of these problems, when in reality you know it's going to, it's going to speed things up, it's going to do x, y and z, but I imagine that fairly soon we will start to see organizations realize that actually it's not, it's not going to do everything for you. I'm just waiting for it to be able to make me a coffee and then then then I'm solved I love that wonderful.

Chris Grimes:

So that's great shapage to that point. So now in the tree curation shaking structure, we're on to three things that inspire you now, josh yes.

Josh Wheeler:

So the things that inspire me are and kind of really get me motivated, are people who want to make a difference, people that are doing what might be seen as small fry and it's funny. We we do quite a lot of stories and activity where people are fundraising for a specific cause and it absolutely flies in broadcasts and it makes sense, kind of where my mind is at and where that subset of media look at, looking for. I'm always inspired by scrappy, imperfect people that aren't, you know, fully trained in doing everything in the you know to the t I I find those people that are just pushing in their way the most inspiring of all. That I think of things that we've done over the years. I remember doing an interview with a case study for a story and this amazing girl who I think she was 20 at the time and now I think back, I'm much older than that, but I wasn't. I was probably about the same age. To be honest, I was doing this interview and it was all about financial abuse within relationships and at the the time there was no law against that, as in if we were in a relationship and I were to commandeer all of your bank cards and everything. There was nothing that really you know, looked at it and it always went hand in hand with domestic abuse. And I was. I was interviewing her, but really I was. My job is to listen and tick off and make sure the person's delivered the messaging for the campaign. And she was talking to me and she was explaining the abuse that she'd gone through and I realized in that moment that for her this wasn't a campaign, this was her life and I was up to that point treating it as a campaign. And those people really inspire me. So, people that are just pushing in their way to make whatever it is that they're doing better, I think, uh, they're the, they're the gold tickets in life. The the other bit is is when people feel seen or heard. I hope that it's something that I do.

Josh Wheeler:

You can never say for certain that you're doing everything in the right way, but I think back to moments in my career where people have taken time to not necessarily explain something, but just taken time to just guide you through. I think back to the first pitch that I ever did and I was drafted in, I think, at the 11th hour for some reason, and I was terrified. If I remember rightly. It was a re-pitch as well, which is never a great place. We'll try again. Yeah, and I was really nervous and I remember one of the really senior people at this big corporate agency that I worked at. She grabbed me. She was like, hey, you've got 20 minutes and it turned into like an hour where she just walked me through the pitch in her own time and I still remember that moment as just being.

Josh Wheeler:

It was about kindness. It wasn't about whether or not we won that pitch, I don't. I don't think she thought we were going to and I think it was just about kindness of I'm going to make sure that he's actually okay in this. And so those moments where you can just take an extra step and an extra beat I always think of. When I hear people say like I'm too busy for this, I just think, oh, are, oh. That's the one thing that I just hope I never say and I doubt I get it right. But yeah, when someone spends that time, I think those people again are inspiring. They're the ones.

Chris Grimes:

So human, connecting with a currency of kindness is the through line there and the thread, and about collaboration, because what I get from you by the bucket load is the intrinsic desire to want to collaborate.

Josh Wheeler:

I think it's the best way. I think, where you can really bring in strengths together and put people together and drive something forward, I think that is the best way. It's not always the most commercial way, but the world is changing, the world is evolving and that bit is going to become more and more important. The other bit I find inspiring is and these probably all sound a bit of a cop-out, but the other bit I find inspiring is conversation, and specifically conversations that are equal part sharp and equal part stupid. So I try to.

Josh Wheeler:

I feel that I am not a corporate. I don't give off an air of corporate, although we work with some corporates and I'm okay and comfortable briefing a ceo in terms of what they need to do versus, you know, say, a charity, that's on the ground, doing something in a grassroots perspective. I love and I'm inspired by deep conversations with people that are working in things, doing something, and you get to hear the hard reality. Because my brain is then thinking well, that what you've just said there has made me think of seven things that we don't, as a society, we don't know about when it comes to this industry or this sector, and there have been so many amazing pieces of work that we've done that have kind of just been inspired by a conversation, not necessarily with a marketing person or a PR person, but someone who's on the front line of things, and I think that's important, you know, certainly in our space, having deep experience of doing things.

Josh Wheeler:

Like you know, if we ever got the chance to work with Tesco Tesco, if you're listening, you know people I would make sure that people kind of have that deep experience of working on the tills, stacking shelves, knowing what that is like, having customers come and talk to you and their frustrations and their stuff like that. That, to me, is magic. That's the stuff that we really need to get back to thinking about. You know, where is the interaction, that where we can really learn stuff from, where people feel comfortable to kind of just chew the cud moan a bit, you know, and give a bit of reality to what is often printed out on a piece of paper and you have to kind of work from, I think.

Chris Grimes:

I think we need to get back to that, that importance of putting people front and center again, I think I love the fact this has turned into a very beautiful and I hope it works for you pitch for the Tesco account, because you used to do it. You were bipping away, bip, bip, bip. You were there. The T-boy then became the tiller, the tillman Wonderful, from boy to man, not to brag.

Josh Wheeler:

I have two Tesco customer services awards. One says for being smiley, which I don't remember being smiley at the time we started off being furious.

Chris Grimes:

Somebody would mash your avocados for you if you got furious. That's fantastic, so wonderful stuff. So I think that's the three inspires. Now we're on to the oh squirrels. What are your monsters of distraction? What never fails to stop you in your tracks, irrespective of anything else? It could be what makes you furious, but I don't know. So what are your two squirrels?

Josh Wheeler:

would you say?

Chris Grimes:

Josh.

Josh Wheeler:

So my two things. The first one, unfortunately, is politics. So pre-Brexit, I was definitely one of those people that just did not pay attention. Really, you know, it didn't impact my life, I didn't think about it. Post brexit, and kind of immediately post brexit, I was definitely one of those people that became really engaged, um, more furious than anything, at just the general state of things, because I think I you know I'm not going to get political, don't worry about any particular party or theme or anything like that, but just the general view and the general position.

Josh Wheeler:

I watch things like prime minister's questions and I despair at just the state that we're in.

Josh Wheeler:

There would be no boardroom where anyone would be able to behave like that.

Josh Wheeler:

And I understand there's history and there's things, but I think what's really interesting is, when I watch this, I think about young people who are less and less engaged with, you know, traditions that we have and that are really important, like prime minister's questions, traditions, that that we we have and that are really important, like prime minister's questions, um, and who are active on social media and and just looking in different places, and I don't think we've cottoned on to that yet from a political perspective.

Josh Wheeler:

Similarly, you look at. You know the processes we have around things like the state opening of parliament. When you look at that and you, there's so much in terms of tradition, but how much does that mean to you know a person who's voting for the first time? I don't think they know that that's happening and yet so much money, time, attention, focus, security, everything goes into it. And so I think the way that organizations and the way that we work is making sure that what we're doing is hitting an audience and we spend so much time, you know, obsessing over that, to then look at politics and people not voting in, say, local elections and stuff like that.

Chris Grimes:

It just infuriates me that we're in this kind of status yes, and the birth of your sort of social responsibility, which is part of the cut and thrust of be broadcast as well. Now it's got to be truthful, meaningful, kind with a social responsibility absolutely, absolutely, and that's the, that's the very, very baseline of it.

Josh Wheeler:

You know, we we are as every organization is. We're apolitical. I have my own views, but we are apolitical and actually we have to help organizations tap into the challenges that we're facing. But I think in in many ways sometimes it's almost better to be on the you know, on the ground yourself than than actually engaging at the top top level, which is so bad to say you know on the ground yourself, then then actually engaging at the top top level, which is so bad to say you know that, that position, but there's a lot of great work being done at brand level that doesn't always get the support that it deserves. That is helping people and that I think is is vital and what's very relatable is the great.

Chris Grimes:

the great travesty of politics is how binary, black, white, right, wrong it's all become. And, of course, what's really rich is the humanity that resides in the middle. These are real people's lives, feelings, consequences, absolutely.

Josh Wheeler:

Absolutely so.

Chris Grimes:

that's a great squirrel to be totally attuned to the idea of social responsibility within politics. That's a great squirrel. No one's ever answered that in my circa 250 episodes in that way. That's lovely, thank you. Second squirrel what are your dog's names? Because sometimes dolly dolly.

Josh Wheeler:

So they're dolly, and axel love that. So we've got I've got a lovely story about this. So we had we had dolly and oscar and we lost Oscar a couple of years ago. But we joked that Dolly Parton never had an Oscar. She never got an Oscar, so he was her Oscar. And then we did it differently this year with Axel. We basically came down to a short list. We got down to two names in the end and we put them both on a piece of paper and we put freets on them and we let dolly pick. She went to one and then she went to the other one and then she picked the other one and that was axel.

Chris Grimes:

So lovely, that's how they came back and the question on everyone's lips what was the name on the other bit of paper with the treat on it? Uh, the other one was tommy. Tommy, I love that. So Axel and Dolly, how lovely. So Dolly presumably just adores the new Axel, so that's lovely, even though she didn't get an Oscar, and I'm sorry, you lost Oscar. Are they the same breed? They are.

Josh Wheeler:

They are. So she is, she's 13. And he is just coming up to two now and they just, they just play all day, all day, and he's really brought her out of you get a little bit older. He's really brought her out of that. She plays with all of her toys, it's.

Chris Grimes:

It's so sweet, and then she's very motherly towards him as well, it's there's a lovely resonance in the idea of just give somebody a damn good listening to which is partly what I'm up to but the idea that you know, axel's arrived and is giving dolly a really good listening to, and then dolly's got an extraordinary life of 13 years and you need to just tune into this experience and get her to play more we, it's absolutely true, because we we say as well the speed of which he picked things up.

Josh Wheeler:

so toilet training, I mean, he was, he was very sweet, he was like he, he tries very hard with things, but he picked it up really quick because he was following, he was watching and listening, you know, paying attention, and when we give them things that he hasn't had before, he always looks to her first. So there is, you know, there is that that passing of information, it's, it's true, it's true, it's true, and we don't do it enough.

Chris Grimes:

And really struck again with reminding myself of you being the tea boy back in the day as the very popular person that did the circuit, able to connect with everyone as you went round by watching observing, which I know will really inform all of your sort of brand expertise because you've just found a way to connect with so many people, will really inform all of your sort of brand expertise, because you've just found a way to connect with so many people.

Josh Wheeler:

It's, it's. It, honestly, is. When I talk about this, and I could go on I go on a real soapbox about it. When I think about the things that have helped me in work, it is exactly those jobs it's also I worked at we'll talk about tech in a moment but I worked at phones for you as well, and one of the they used to make us not make us, they used to encourage us, um, to go out there and and stop people in the street and talk to them about their phone contract terrifying.

Josh Wheeler:

But once you've done it five times, you realize it's just someone will just tell you to go away, not so politely. And once you've had that, you're like that's fine. And that skill of just realizing that whoever it is you're talking to is just a human. They're just going about their day. They might be having the worst day in the world and that's just what's happening. It's quite a lot of power in realizing that you don't need to be starstruck or scared or intimidated. So we, we work with a lot of talent. That that could be quite scary to to kind of deal with. It doesn't phase me because I think early on I just had that view and that understanding that do you know what? They're going to want? A cup of tea, or they're going to want a coffee, or they're going to want a biscuit in an hour or so? There's, there's so many things that you can.

Chris Grimes:

Just you can just, and you know what's relatable um rob bryden wants a sausage roll for tomorrow. That's fine, he said.

Josh Wheeler:

A sausage roll shall be yours, you see and so you know and it's probably quite daunting to to have rob and to have you know you'll probably be feeling like I want to get these questions right and do this and do that. But actually when you realize that rob is not going to be any, he's about to say he's not going to be much different. To me, he's more fun, but to other people he's not going to be that that different. And then when you realize that actually everything becomes a lot easier and it's something we, we all, get really heads up about and that you know. I know that there's been a big change in terms of young people getting things like saturday jobs and stuff like that, and I think that's a real, it's a real shame and it's a blight on the brands, like the retail brands and things like that, and I understand there's lots of challenges there, but that is so important to us.

Chris Grimes:

You mean not getting Saturday jobs anymore? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Josh Wheeler:

I think it's vital. I genuinely think it's vital. I think it's something to help bring young people out of their shells. Yeah, I mean, obviously there's going to be instances of people that find it difficult, but I think it's so, I think it's so important, I think it's even, you know, having those moments where you can break through. That. I think is is really, really key and it sets you up in a whole different, whole different way. Plus, you end up with stories. We used to I don't know, the company doesn't exist anymore phones for you went under. Uh, we used to know those people that have to collect money from shops and like take it back and they put it in those big the Curie core, those sort of people yes.

Josh Wheeler:

There was a guy that used to come and he used to collect money from the shops and we used to try and stop him every day, every day, and try and sell him a phone contract when he was with this money, just just for something to do, right, and we laugh about it, but at the time it, you know, it, kept us going and it's you just get through things like that and I think we're missing that. We're missing that element and again very related.

Chris Grimes:

My first ever job was this head saturday boy at safeways before it became morrison's. So they, yes, like your test goes, I was. I was safeways Marvellous.

Josh Wheeler:

I went on a school trip to the bakery at Safeways. It's all of these little moments, it's all out there. They're just in here, yes.

Chris Grimes:

And I might have hijacked your squirrel. I made it about Dolly and Axel, but just name your squirrel, because I think I might have assumed it was the two dogs.

Josh Wheeler:

Well, it is, but I was thinking more broadly. No, it's tech, so it's consumer tech Always been really into it. I'm going through a process at the moment of trying to buy all of the old phones that I had as a kid and it's funny how they're all sort of. We're seeing bits coming back Again. We're all kind of AI-focused chat, gpt infused in everything, but actually we're seeing, you know, growth of flip phones and stuff like the bits that we crave and the excitement is starting to come back through.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, lovely answers. This is great. Now we're on to the one quirkier unusual fact about you, josh wheeler.

Josh Wheeler:

We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us yes, so when I was 11, I fell off a climbing frame and I broke my arm and I'm not doing a claim here, this is not that but uh, when I went to the hospital they set it, but they set it incorrectly. So my left arm I don't know if you can see, the elbow is the sort of the wrong way around. Excellent, so when you put it down you can it goes out into the middle. So it's a great party trick, or it's um, it's a great thing if you want to make someone be sick.

Chris Grimes:

I always love that, and is there something you can stick your arm in and grab that nobody else can, which gives it a superpower quality?

Josh Wheeler:

interestingly, it's the opposite, because actually, where it's supposed to be, this bit shouldn't be poking out this way. So, um, actually, if I needed to, my arm is probably wider where it needed to be thinner well, you can't have the challenge.

Chris Grimes:

You can't have everything, can you? I love it. I like also just to disclaim the disclaimer. I'm not making a claim here. That's lovely. We have shaken your tree, josh wheeler. Hurrah, now we stay in the clearing. Move away from the tree. Next we talk about alchemy and gold. When you're at purpose in your life, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Josh Wheeler:

the happiest that I am is when I am and I've struggled with this one a little bit as well, because I really didn't want to make it just about work, but work is such a big part of of what I do I am genuinely happiest when I'm working on something where we've really pushed the boundary and it is effective. So we've, either we've pushed a spokesperson into you know, going down a road that they perhaps wouldn't have gone down. We've, we've encouraged and guided a client to you know, open up on something that ordinarily they might think is a bit of a dangerous topic or a difficult area. Or, yeah, effectively we've had that kind of nudging and we've got it through, and then it works. And then people kind of see and there's a learning and you see, like the fireworks come off from it of you know we could, we could then do this, we could do that, we could do the other, and that for me is is the best place of of what I do for for a living.

Josh Wheeler:

What, outside of life, you know, I also am just totally happy roughhousing with the dogs and playing toys and throwing. We've currently, at the moment, it's all about we've got these fruit and veg squeaky toys. It's all about throwing them out at the door. Um axel just goes wild for that.

Chris Grimes:

So one or the other either or either or, and in the construct of legacy life reflections. This is also the moment where I may ask someone about you know, in your long, very eclectic, polymathic life, your halcyon days when, when do you know, you've been at your absolute happiest and with, with hindsight, your answers were great there. But let me just go a bit deeper into that. Halcyon days for you? Um, do you mind me asking how old you actually are? Um, I'm making an assumption, but I am 35 so it's.

Chris Grimes:

It's in the seven ages of man which we're coming on to. In terms of shakespeare, that's exactly. You'll go way beyond this, but this is halfway there. 35, three score year and 10. So, yes, so far, then, and it ain't over till it's over. It's a roller coaster, but when he went, what would you describe as your halcyon days, as being oh, it's really true.

Josh Wheeler:

Well, I would say there two. There are two periods. The first one would be uni. In the sense of that, as a young person I was always kind of gearing up to I'm going to london, I'm doing this, and you know this is what's going to happen, and then hit with just mega amounts of freedom not always good hit with millions of people, you know, get to know people's different stories, have a laugh, push back like, do all sorts of stuff that you'd never get to do. And I felt super confident really. I felt really confident in, not in an arrogant way, but just confident. I felt like I'd sort of arrived in in that moment. I loved that whole period.

Josh Wheeler:

It then sort of hit in my 20s and it just it.

Josh Wheeler:

It was just the, the difficulty and the challenge and it just wasn't that fun.

Josh Wheeler:

And then I would say here, where we're at now with BeBroadcast, because it's so intrinsic to me, I can make decisions and I can guide on what my gut tells me. So I'm now in a position where I don't have to surround myself, I don't have to get caught in what I would have always called kind of silly, silly stuff, and that, I think, means that again I'm kind of back in that place where I'm at a confident edge and we can back up our work, we can do all of that, the stuff that we want to do, and also we can kind of go. If that thing doesn't quite fit with where we're going, it's fine, that's fine, we're going to go off in a different direction and and that. So I would say, those two periods, yes, kind of bookend, that, that kind of challenging point and like mentally, that challenging point was pretty, pretty rough and so now it feels like a, it feels like a nice, a nice period both pockets of empowerment is what I was hearing there, interestingly.

Chris Grimes:

Seven years we're talking about the seven ages of man. I don't know if you've heard the idea that we all need to be really attuned to seven year, not just itches, but seven year cycles, because you're you're cellularly regenerated every seven years. Your teeth are the same, but you're a new person, so that's why we need to be really attuned in the cycles of life interesting.

Josh Wheeler:

And did you know it's interesting that seven is the thing? Did you know that to release oxytocin in a hug you have to hug for seven seconds? The number seven is an interesting like the, the connections of things. But yeah, yeah, it makes sense. You know, we have these, we have these periods and I've always, I've always kind of joked about I have in my life I'll have two great years and then a year of chaos. You just anticipate it. Yeah, we go through these cycles of of things and as a slight backstory as well.

Chris Grimes:

Second curve so cool because we're all on a curve or trajectory. Your curve begins to wane, so what do you do to attach to your second curve that's going to pull you towards your future. So these are all about, you know, towards the sunlight of your second curve. It's all a journey towards, and all change and transition in life is about the action towards, rather than just sitting there moaning. What are you going to do about it? What's the action that you're going to take? Even getting in touch with you is an action. So I'm just aware of that. And now we're going to award you with a cake. Hurrah, this is actually a dog toy. Excellent, dolly gonna love this. So, first of all, to talk about cake, do you like cake, josh, and what cake would you like?

Josh Wheeler:

we're getting a cake person. If I'm honest, I'm more of an ice cream person. I can do cake, but I'm more of a.

Josh Wheeler:

I'm more of an ice cream person excellent, so let's have an ice cream flavor of choice so I I always like make sense, take the mickey out of me for this, because we'll, so, we'll order. We'll get like sundaes and stuff like that, and I always pick whatever it is that is the most like sugary, like almost like childlike, so like bubble gum, all that kind of you know, it's just got everything shoved in. Yeah, that is the one that I go for.

Chris Grimes:

Boom love that. So a knickerbocker, glory-esque, eaten mess sort of glob is yours 100.

Josh Wheeler:

So, like you know, you've got all these pop-up places now where you get, and it's got like. It's got like warbog blended into stuff like that is for me is like the top tier. It's just like chaos in a in a pot and then, like one makes a bit like josh wheeler chaos in a pot.

Chris Grimes:

I love that. That's great so now you get to put a cherry on the cake. This is the last suffused with a storytelling metaphor. The cherry on the cake is now stuff like what's the favorite inspirational quote in your life that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future?

Josh Wheeler:

josh so this was interesting and I was like I can't say that, I can't say that and I'm gonna say it right, so glad. I was thinking I was like I need to say someone really is someone really powerful and et cetera, and actually I'm not. I'm going to go for one of the shows that I really enjoy, I love is the Hotel Inspector. I think the Hotel Inspector is a lovely programme. I really enjoy it. It's comedy. It reminds me it's a glass of wine on a Friday night, like love it. But what I also love is, uh, alex polizzi. So I think alex polizzi is really inspirational.

Josh Wheeler:

I think that the work that she's done she's she's both in terms of running her own organizations and a business, incredible. You know the gold standard standard of service, perfect. But also knowing exactly her lane. Love what she does is she delivers some of the most excruciating feedback, but in a lovely way, no, and I think that's incredible. And there's one line and, um, my old colleague, jess, I use a picture because she printed it out. She printed it out because I used to say it and it was a picture of alex polizzi and it just said just do it, darling. And stuck that on the wall behind me and actually I think that is because the thing I think now is this we spend so much time thinking about is that the right thing? Should we do? Do this, you know, and I think more and more we've got to trust our guts, whether it's personal decisions, career decisions, strategy decisions, and sometimes we've just got to trust our gut a bit more and we've just got to just do it. Darling, I love that.

Chris Grimes:

Thank you. With the gift of hindsight, what notes, help or advice? You can pick an age that you'd like to arrive holographically back at yourself. But what notes, help or advice might you proffer to a younger version of yourself, josh?

Josh Wheeler:

The advice I would give and I find myself now saying it to people, younger people is calm down, because it doesn't all need to be at a thousand miles per hour.

Josh Wheeler:

By taking on everything, you're going to not get anything and actually what you really need to do is get the balance right, because when you get the balance right of life, work, family, everything that comes into kind of fruition, then all of the kind of the tectonic plates move at once. If you're just pushing one thing a million miles per hour, actually you end up, you know, just becoming the person that's known for doing everything and that, and that was damaging. That was a tough one. So if I could go back and kind of have a quiet word, it would just be. You will progress, you will kind of go where you want to go, and if you aren't going to get what you actually want out of things, then you're not the type of character that's just going to sit there and wait. You're going to go off and do something else, and so just calm down and see things for what they are and just enjoy the moment a little bit more.

Chris Grimes:

I love that interpretation of have a word with yourself, would you and so I'm imagining just pick an age that you're appearing holographically next to yourself?

Josh Wheeler:

Twenty twenty three, twenty four, Love that.

Chris Grimes:

Remember, self-awareness is the holy grail. That's what we're in pursuance of. That was a lovely answer. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given by somebody else?

Josh Wheeler:

Oh, it's interesting. The best piece of advice was and at the time I took it really badly and I actually have used it earlier the best piece of advice was to was to be like a swan, and actually at the time I thought this was a a shocking piece of advice. This was ignoring the issue. It was, you know, ignoring the challenge that was in front of us, and instead what you were trying to kind of say was to almost mask it. And in truth, what I'd misinterpreted was that actually it wasn't saying that it was more a case of we we are, this is how we'll tackle it, but ultimately, what we don't want to do is blow this out and blow it further. And so, again, these kind of moments were sort of all happening at the same time and I was going at a thousand miles per hour and, need you know, thinking I needed to do this and impress that person and speak to this person and all that stuff, when actually what I really needed to do was just kind of ease back a little bit and feel more confident in ability, actions, direction, all of that stuff.

Josh Wheeler:

And I think that only comes with experience and understanding which is interesting how our sector works. You know, we put people into some quite challenging positions where they're having to guide people with, you know, maybe 10 plus more years of experience of doing things and it's an. It's a really interesting little space. But I think that advice you know, that combination somewhere of kind of trying to slow down whilst also being super fast and on the front foot, but trying to slow down and see things it's is is the advice I would. I would look at kind of as the the best piece I've had. It didn't land well at the time. I went away and thought what the actual f?

Chris Grimes:

it reminded me that of the, the adage of keep majestic, because swans are majestic. There could be all sorts of, as you say, paddling going on underneath, but to keep majestic.

Josh Wheeler:

Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

And I love the fact that it's got a currency of confidence. Innate confidence in your ability to keep gliding and keep moving.

Josh Wheeler:

I think as well. I think that confidence is such an interesting one because the reality is, I don't think anybody really knows what they're doing. Bluntly, we're all winging it. Yeah, everyone is winging it, yeah, in different ways.

Josh Wheeler:

And, and you build up your building blocks of these are the things that I can bring to a situation, these are the things that I can, you know, put forward, but at the same time, everyone is in that same boat. And when you start to put all of these things together, you realize that you know, actually you don't need to be intimidated by that person, you don't need to be scared of this. But actually throwing out an idea, you know, in the right way, in the right context, and kind of, you know, plotting things out, is really important. But we just I don't know something about it might be our society we kind of just encourage that everything needs to be done yesterday. Yeah, and every. You know if you, if you haven't done it three days ago, you're already behind the curve, and so we're all, all of us, are just consistently behind, and so it just encourages everyone to fly a million miles per hour when actually really most things need us to kind of just pause and go, especially in the age of AI, which can do it in four seconds.

Chris Grimes:

And do you know what's so relatable? I was asked to give a talk a couple of weeks ago at the Festival of Sustainable Business and I used the word sustain to talk about how can we sustain the pressure of feeling like we're barking into a sea of noise when AI is also competing to bark into that sea of noise. And I wrapped it around a joke, which was do songbirds ever get slightly pissed off with hummingbirds for never having bothered to learn the song or the words? And actually actually, in truth, linked to something called slow leadership, slow down, slow down. We need to probably be more hummingbird, because hummingbirds are majestic.

Josh Wheeler:

They get the nectar and they just hum about and and we're drawn to them because they're majestic it's interesting you talk about sounds because we, for a client, we I don't know if you use slack- I have two channels, but I don't use them as much as I should oh good, good, because I we embedded it in and I've never.

Josh Wheeler:

I love um ways of communication, I'm open to all of it, but I had to ban it because I found it to be incredibly disruptive in the sense of it was instant messaging but in what would previously be kind of client communication. So client communication is a skill. You hone the art of writing an email in your kind of early years writing an email explaining what a piece of coverage is, and that is important because you have to understand, you have to have that that there, you know, by the time you're, you know, old and haggard in in my time you can do it standing on your head, but you you have to have those building blocks to be able to to be there so that you can then advise about which publication, which outlet you go for. I found it to be, you know, everything was so instant and actually you can't learn, you can't learn those skills in an instant environment. Where's this thing? Here's a link, and it's happening all whilst you're doing something else.

Josh Wheeler:

So so actually, when I want somebody to be focusing in on the art of writing research questions that are going to create a standout new story, I don't want them being distracted by a pop up here, yeah and so, um, that makes a noise and did it, and in the end I was like, actually, no, this is, this is counterintuitive, yes, um, and so we got rid of it. When we communicate, I want the communication to be the front and center focus. I don't want us doing 17 things at once yes, badly. I want us to do individual things at the right time, strategically and correctly that's important be more hummingbird.

Chris Grimes:

And it's again the slow leadership is a really good and if you're just moving all the time, you're not going to be able to sort of be able to properly pace, realizing it's a, a marathon, not a dash, basically yep, absolutely.

Josh Wheeler:

There's benefits to all of these things, but there are lots of different tools that you can use and I think just that just picking the de facto because is is not, is not the way to go and that's why we uh, we got rid of it and, as you've also stumbled into brilliantly earlier on, there's such an overwhelm of different platforms one can use.

Chris Grimes:

You know, as it happens, I quite like whatsapp because it does what slack sort of does, but better I love what excellent. So now just another strand to do with legacy, life reflections. Do you have a favorite piece of music? Because dan, my podcast editor, is brilliant at texturing in music. So if I just say to you surprisingly now, you weren't expecting this what would you say? A favourite piece of music is for you, josh.

Josh Wheeler:

So I would say a song called Damaged, by an artist called Plummet, and this is a it's like a trance track from 2003. It probably got to like number 48 in the charts but I, I, um my concentration. If I need to concentrate, I listen to heavy, intense trance music. Always done it Really bizarre and weird. But if I need to switch off, that's where I'm going and I've got a playlist that's entirely dedicated to that.

Chris Grimes:

But that one song weirdly is, it's embedded just say the name again to reincorporate it deliberately so it is called damaged by a band called plummet wasn't that beautiful, lovely, uh.

Chris Grimes:

Now then, finally, we're ramping up to talk about shakespeare and talk about legacy in a minute, but just before we get there, this is the pass the golden baton moment, please. They don't like it up by mr menry, but what I'd like to invite you to do is now you've experienced this from within. Who would you most like to pass the golden baton along to, in order to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going? Josh?

Josh Wheeler:

so I would like to pass the baton to my friend, james. Uh, james richards, he is actually really inspirational. It's going to annoy me to say it at the same at the same breath um, because he's also an absolutely terrible person. I'm joking. He's lovely, um, but he is the uh campaigns director at munch and he's also the founder of an organization called moobs. So james was diagnosed with breast cancer a couple of years ago and just the way he's kind of come through all of that, he created effectively, uh, you know, a bit of a charity in the, in the sense of to kind of help other people. That the challenges of and you know, your note, I said breast cancer as opposed to male breast cancer you know, really tackling a subject with stigma, and I just I love the way that he's done it and I love him, but I think he would be great. He faced mortality and did so with class and dignity and with a smile in the same sense, and I just I think he's brilliant, I think he'd be great. He'd be great at this.

Chris Grimes:

James Richards, I'm coming for you. That's fantastic, lovely. So now, inspired by Shakespeare, all the world's a stage, and all the better. We've been barely players again because of my hectic background. We've borrowed from the seven ages of man's speech jayquees. We've borrowed from the seven ages of man's speech GQs as you like it. And so now, when all is said and done, how would you most like Josh Wheeler to be remembered.

Josh Wheeler:

I would most like to be remembered as someone that helped. Think, as someone that helped. There isn't one in particular thing, but that someone that looked at situations and tried to make them better in lots of different ways. I think that that's what I personally aspire to. It's just trying to make a small difference to things, and if we can use our skill set of PR to be able to do that, fantastic. But I love seeing people that are just trying to do something. That that, for me is, is kind of what gets me up each day. That could be a brand, that could be a major organization, that could be, you know, someone that's just just come up with an idea and they're going to try and rally their community. You know, to me it's equal, it's an equal measure. One maybe has, you know, a broader voice, but that's perhaps where we come into play. So I think if I were going to be remembered, it would be as someone that helped.

Josh Wheeler:

I'd also like to be remembered as rebellious, and I'm not going to sit and just accept status quo, which we haven't, you know, as be broadcast. We've we've challenged our bit of the industry. We've got rid of things like compete clauses that are a scourge on our industry and hurt freelancers, hurt people that are perhaps having a difficult time in one place or another, and I think that is where I'd like to be. We will always have a rebellious, naughty streak within us, and the rub that we can have on on people that are doing similar things, I think, is where I'd like us to be in the future and reading between the lines, my interpretation of that is that you're removing the compete clause, meaning freelancers can go where they like because they deserve to keep working and don't worry about any overlap.

Chris Grimes:

Is that what you mean?

Josh Wheeler:

yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, it's we're, we're, we've, we were born with it. Because it impacted me.

Josh Wheeler:

It was difficult thing to kind of work through and rather than just follow that same trend of you know that that's just what happens, I wanted to kind of make it a better situation for people that are coming through. So you know, competition in the market, if somebody works here and then in five years time decides to leave and set up their own thing, great, that's not. That's not, that's not a knock on us, it's a. It's somebody giving them, giving themselves, a different shot in life. Similarly, for a freelancer, you know, if they have an amazing relationship with a client and they do incredible work and that client decided to work with them by themselves.

Josh Wheeler:

I can't control that, so I don't need to try and pseudo threaten my own team that you know that that would happen. So it's exactly that, that that would happen. So so it's exactly that. It's it's making sure that, rather than me having strings to to kind of hold those people, actually it's on me to to make an environment that you don't want to leave until the point where you're going to go on and do something amazing.

Chris Grimes:

That is the thinking I think that has such integrity and congratulations. That must be music to the world of freelancing and I completely agree with you. That's absolutely the way to be, absolutely.

Josh Wheeler:

We don't need to be like the 80s anymore.

Chris Grimes:

We can move on, we can move on One of the best leaders I ever worked with. In speaking to them, used to so enjoy developing their people, so, so much that when they then flew off to do something else that was the whole point rather than preciously guarding and, as you say, being a puppet meister and trying to sort of bind people by their strings lovely stuff, okay. So now this is a very exciting moment, which is called show us your qr code, please, hurrah. So if you've been watching this as well, very exciting. You can scan a qr code to josh wheeler. First of all, we're going to go to the bbroadcastcouk website. So there it is. So, josh, tell us what the domain is for those that are just listening but not able to watch and scan.

Josh Wheeler:

It's just bbroadcastcouk and that has everything about us, what we do and some of the stories we tell.

Chris Grimes:

Awesome, and if you'd like to connect also with Josh on LinkedIn, you can go here. This is now, so just tell us if we're listening, not watching. I think it's Josh.

Josh Wheeler:

Wheeler PR. Or if you just search Josh Wheeler, I should come up. I'm the one with pink somewhere in the background.

Chris Grimes:

Senior consultancy, senior delivery, everything you do Fantastic. I'll come back to you in a second, but just a couple of announcements from me. If you'd like a conversation about guesting in the show, to my website, for everything we've been doing is the good listening to show dot com. There's another very exciting QR code and then very, very excitingly, there is a series strand within it that's been part of the mountainscape all along.

Chris Grimes:

Now that I'm five years in 250 episodes into the show where legacy, life reflections, is a really wonderful cut and thrust, as I said at the beginning, to record either your own story or the story of somebody near, dear or close to you for posterity. Again without any morbid intention, but lest we forget before it's too late, and coming full circle, back to Josh, who even did a PR job on the Grim Reaper yourself back in the day. So it's to just enjoy the fact that we've. Everybody has an interesting story to tell, provided you give them the courtesy of a damn good listening to. And that's the whole cut and thrust of what I'm up to. Josh back to you, as this has been your moment in the sunshine, in the good listening to show stories of distinction and genius. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

Josh Wheeler:

I think the thing I'd like to say is is let's get back to supporting each other in lots of different ways. I think we've talked for years about various challenges. We've talked about challenges within community. We've talked about challenges within business. We've talked about challenges within community. We've talked about challenges within business. We've talked about all of these things and actually very often the key to unlocking things is just speaking to each other and sharing stories and having the realization that actually we're not that dissimilar, we're not that we're not that unique in the sense of um.

Josh Wheeler:

You know, we're all pretty much the same and I think we've we've gone insular and I don't even think it was to do with covid, I think it happened pre-covid. I think something, something really needs to unpick itself and I think it only comes from us taking that first step. So, try and speak. You know we've done campaigns about, like community stuff. So you know, try and speak to a neighbor and like, just smile at people, because those little things just start to unlock a broader connection. You know, if you're on linkedin, comment on somebody's post that you wouldn't normally comment on, you know, just show that you're an active person, because it does start to kind of feed back and come into it.

Chris Grimes:

I think that's really important lovely so thank you very much indeed for listening. I've been chris grimes, but very, very importantly, this has been j Wheeler from Be Broadcast. Anything else you'd like to say, josh?

Josh Wheeler:

Well good, you've covered it I think it's you said about the passing. We've done things like where you've looked at people's eulogies and how difficult that can be at a time and you know what the best bits is telling people's stories. So this kind of thing is something we should all be looking at because it allows then the family and friends to look back. It's gold dust.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful and very, very much looking forward to future collaborations. Mr Josh Wheeler, thank you so much for taking the time. Happy holes, I hope the sun shines majestically and brightly and you'll be majestic, otherwise you'll get furious and you'll smash your avocados. So thank you very much indeed. I've been Chris Grimes. That's been Josh Wheeler. Good night.

Chris Grimes:

You've been listening to the Good Listening To Show with me, chris Grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how care of the series strands at the goodlistening2showcom website, and one of these series strands is called Legacy Life Reflections. If you've been thinking about how to go about recording your life story or the life story of somebody close to you for posterity, but in a really interesting, effortless and creative way, then maybe the Good Listening To Show can help. Using the unique structure of the show. I'll be your host, as together we take a trip down memory lane to record the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 of either your or their life story, and then you can decide whether you go public or private with your episode. Get in touch if you'd like to find out more. Tune in next week for more stories from the Clearing, and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.