The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Legacy Life Reflections: Finding Purpose in Life. The Profession, the Vocation, the Calling & the Wisdom. Overcoming Blindness to now Living the Digital Nomad Dream in Central Vietnam with Neil Stringer aka "The Copy Doctor"

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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What does it take to rebuild your life when everything is suddenly taken away? Neil Stringer, known as 'The Copy Doctor', takes us on a profound journey from his days as a brass musician in the Salvation Army to becoming a digital nomad copywriter in Vietnam – and then facing the devastating moment when he went completely blind.

"It was the 16th of May 2020. I remember at the time it was 4:45 in the afternoon. That's when I went blind. As in blackness, as in blind," Neil recounts with remarkable candor. Diagnosed with type 2 diabetes that had damaged his optic nerves, Neil spent eight days in hospital on steroids before returning home unable to work. He lost all his clients and had to rebuild from nothing, writing articles for half a cent per word just to survive.

Before this life-altering event, Neil had already lived several fascinating lives – from nearly becoming a professional trumpet player to running substance abuse programs as a clinical psychologist with a PhD. His path to becoming The Copy Doctor emerged from his psychological understanding of human behavior and how to ethically persuade rather than manipulate. This expertise led him to write copy that turned a $37 offer into $42,000 in two weeks and helped clients generate millions in revenue.

Throughout the conversation, Neil shares powerful wisdom about the difference between having a profession, a vocation, and a calling. "When you have a calling, you elevate to the top of the chart because it puts a different context behind everything you do," he explains. His insights on gratitude as a foundation for resilience are equally moving: "I always begin by counting my blessings and being grateful for what I have got. And I keep doing that until I stop worrying about what I haven't got."

Whether you're facing your own life challenges, seeking to understand the psychology behind effective marketing, or simply drawn to remarkable human stories, Neil's journey will inspire you to find purpose in adversity and to recognize that "it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice."

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Chris Grimes:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the Clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin.

Chris Grimes:

Welcome to a very exciting Halcyon Day here in the Good Listening To Show clearing. It is my absolute delight and pleasure to welcome Neil Stringer, known as the Copy Doctor Living the digital nomad dream. He's based enigmatically in Southeast Asia and we met recently because of his prowess as a copy doctor, where his raison d'etre is, as he says of his own volition on his LinkedIn profile my copy gives your offer, product or service a megaphone. So here is the copy doctor and we're going to be doing a founder story, stroke, legacy, life reflections, sort of dual thing in what we're recording here. So, neil Stringer, welcome to the Good Listening To show.

Neil Stringer:

Well, thank you very much. It's an honour and pleasure to be here. It's been a few nerves in the run-up to it because this is so different, and so I want to spend some time today introducing you or telling you who I am, not what I do Anybody knows what I do, you know with the marketing and the copy and all that sort of good stuff but really giving you a chance to get to know a little bit about who Neil is.

Chris Grimes:

So that's what I'm here for and that fits perfectly with my founding premise five years ago. With this whole construct. Everybody has an interesting story to tell, provided you give them the courtesy of a damn good listening to. And I'm particularly interested in not the transactional stuff but the story behind the story. And, as you said, we wanted to frame this with everything you've ever wanted to know about the copy doctor, but were too afraid to ask is the sort of Hollywood film version of what we're going to be talking about? Yeah, absolutely. So we've enigmatically said you're in Southeast Asia. You did say a couple of minutes ago you don't like to particularly pin yourself down specifically, Just tell us the story behind the story of why you've decided to base yourself in Southeast Asia.

Neil Stringer:

Well, let's call it what it is. I'm in central Vietnam. There's a change. I came here about nine and a half years or so ago. I was on the way to Australia to spend some time working with a particular set of clients and I came here. I got to Saigon.

Neil Stringer:

Ho Chi Minh City Absolutely couldn't stand the place. It was like a sensory sort of overload, with all the little motorbikes like hornets buzzing everywhere, pavements, and I didn't like it at all. And so I wanted to come up to where I am in the central Vietnam and I thought, if this is good, great, if it's the same as there, I'm on the next flight out to Australia and this is good, great, if it's the same as there, I'm on the next line out to Australia. And I came and I really, really liked it and I really liked the people, and I'm going to talk more about that a little later. But I found that this was the way. I was quite happy to be. I didn't speak the language, I'd never been here before, but somehow it's as a place or an environment and me just clicked and so I thought, thought, okay, I'll stay for a few months and things. You know, you have to be careful and sort out the immigration stuff and get it all done right.

Neil Stringer:

And then we ran into covid and the place was locked down. You couldn't travel anywhere, um, if you wanted to, for three years. So all the visa stuff went out of the window. And the funny story was the day I was supposed to get my kind of yearly visa the semi-permanent visa they changed the rules and I had to fly outside of Vietnam to get the visa stuck into my passport. So I thought I'm not going to go to Bangkok, where everybody else goes. I thought I'll go to Phnom Penh in Cambodia because that's the city next door. I thought I'll go to Phnom Penh in Cambodia because that's the city next door and I wanted to do things like go and see one of the many killing fields and all that sort of stuff. It's not fun, but it's something that I thought I can't be in this part of the world and not do.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, you know A bit like being in Krakow and whether you decide to go to. Auschwitz or not? Yes, indeed, exactly. It was just something in krakow, and whether you decide to go to the auschwitz or not, yes, indeed exactly exactly.

Neil Stringer:

It's just something I felt that I should do. And so I got to nom and, on the monday night, the letter from immigration, my attendance back to my hotel and also to the embassy. Tuesday morning I went to the embassy and they said here's the funny thing. He said okay, it'll cost you I don't know whatever it was fifty $50 or whatever and come back in three days. And I said no, no, no, no, no. I said I'm not going to be in Cambodia with no bloody passport. There's a table and chair there. I'm going to sit there until you've done it. And if I have to sit there for three days, so be it.

Neil Stringer:

Now, all you've got to do. You've got the letter from Hanoi, you've got everything done. I'll give you the money. You've got my passport. Just stick the damn thing in and let's be done with this. So they said okay, then it'll be $250. So I said that's okay, I just paid the cash. Seven minutes it took them to get my visa. So so well, I can't say this is Vietnam, because that might get me into trouble.

Chris Grimes:

But in this part of the world, there's ways of doing things. Shall we say so you grease the wheels of red tape.

Neil Stringer:

I can't possibly comment. You might think that, but, as they would say in House of Cards, richardson would say I can't possibly comment. So I had my driver that I booked just to run me around everywhere. I said I want to go to the King of Girls and things, so we'd do that for the afternoon. And then I had an uneasy feeling in my stomach and I've learned over the decades to listen to that uneasy feeling in the bottom of your stomach. So I called my um, who was then girlfriend back here, who had booked the tickets with her friend for me to go and then come back anyway, and I was supposed to go back to play on on the santa day or the sunday, whatever it was. I said get me on my next available play out to be in. So she said there's not one till tomorrow morning. I said okay, just get me on it. And she said well, it goes to Saigon. It doesn't go to where you are, so you're going to have to hang around for a few hours at the airport there.

Chris Grimes:

And just go back to that. This is COVID that's causing this pressure of the desire to get out.

Neil Stringer:

No, COVID was starting to be talked about, and we all knew about it, but everybody was still traveling and doing so anyway. I got back into Vietnam. I'm in Saigon now, a few hours away from home, and the day after, on the Wednesday, vietnam closes all its borders. Ooh. So if I hadn't listened to that gut feeling in my stomach God, the universe, whatever you want to class it, as I have been stuck in cambodia for three years, wow, yes, that would have been the end of the world, except all my stuff, and everything was here, not there, and so and where do you think that sort of where do you think that sort of gut instinct came from in terms of how you've rationalized it since?

Chris Grimes:

because you just woke up feeling unsettled, like you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, about to be stuck. Is that the idea?

Neil Stringer:

I will say as far as yeah, that is the idea. I'll say, as far as this is concerned, which is not something I've ever said before that came from God. I am a man of faith. I don't very, very seldom, if I'm talking to clients, do I ever mention God or faith or anything, because that's not my job. I'm there to do a specific thing. But you ask the question.

Chris Grimes:

This is a podcast of transparency or honesty. That feeling, I believe, came from upstairs and in your life have you experienced a sort of visceral gut instinct shift of narrative often?

Neil Stringer:

yes and no. That's the easiest way to say yes and no. There's been times in life when I've been aware that somebody or something's got me into the the toilet, if you like. Yeah, and one of the things that I say to myself when I have bad times. So we all have bad times, you know, one of which you referred to before we came on, but we're not going to talk about now. One of the things that occurs to me if God, the universe, the divine, whoever you, however, you or somebody wants it, can be the doorknob. That's where your faith is. If the doorknob, if the universe, well, that's my problem with the 12-step program.

Chris Grimes:

I do like that, by the way.

Neil Stringer:

We should always have faith in our doorknob because it is the way out. Well, I never thought of that. But you know, if you're going to call it your hidden power or unseen power, give the thing a name, whatever it happens to be. But no, I'm aware One of the things that's kept me going over the decades is….

Chris Grimes:

You know what we could have formed? A new cult, today called the doorknob cult. You never know. We could.

Neil Stringer:

No, I think the doorknob is the way out. I think that's brilliant. I wish I'd thought of it. But no, what I was going to say was I'm aware that somebody or something over the decades scrapes, and one of the verses in the bible says be you not deceived, god is not mocked. If god's not going to get me out of today's scrape, it makes a mockery of all the scrapes he got me out of in the past. Yeah, and that's simple logic, and it might not mean or count for much with 99 of the people who are listening to this, but it counts for something with me and it's my story, so that's all that matters.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, and it resonates beautifully with that, and this too shall pass, which is biblical, but also everybody relates to it. So there's certainly wisdom that's relatable across all religions and there are versions of and this too shall pass across religions.

Neil Stringer:

Actually, Well, one of the things that I have and this isn't in my plan, but I have a master's degree in theology and comparative religion, so I'm familiar with most of the sacred works out there. And you'd be amazed how many similarities there are.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, it's all about the human condition.

Neil Stringer:

Well, it's about man writing or wanting to talk about or describe things of which he has no comprehension. I live in a Buddhist culture. Now, I'm not Buddhist, but I love Buddhism in the sense that, to the people here who are very devout, Buddhism isn't a religion per se, it's a code for life. It's very Christian. In fact, in some cases, some of the outworkings of people who live a Buddhist lifestyle are a lot more devout and a lot more I don't even know what the word is than some of the Christians I could introduce you to.

Chris Grimes:

There's hypocrisy across religion.

Neil Stringer:

Yeah, there is, and not so much here, or at least in the environment that I live in now.

Chris Grimes:

Sure, this is all wonderful stuff because we're getting deliberately existential anyway, which is actually the point. So why don't we get on the open road of me curating you through the structure? Now, If you're listening to this show for the first time, just to give a bit of positioning here, this is the show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers and also personal heroes every man, every woman into a clearing or serious happy place of my guests choosing, as together we share their stories of distinction and genius. So, neil Stringer, I'm going to take you through the curation of a clearing, a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton and a cake. So it's all to play for.

Chris Grimes:

Your invitation is to go where you like, how you like, as deep as you like, when you like, if you like, through this structure. Thank you for positioning so brilliantly that you're here to talk about all things to do with everything you wanted to know, which you're giving us by the bucket load already, about the Copy Doctor, the story behind the story. Let's get on the open road, neil Stringer. Where is what is a clearing for you? Where is your serious happy place? Where do you go to get clutter-free, inspirational and able to think?

Neil Stringer:

I have a main one and a backup one. My main one is what I fondly call my Zen Zone In the house I live in. It was built with a lot of input from me, design wise. Where I am, I can't own property because I'm a foreigner, I'm not allowed to, but it was built for me primarily. There's the front building where I am now and sleeping and cooking and living and all the rest of it. Then there's a courtyard area and then there's the back building where my guest suite or my brother's room would be, and the laundry area.

Neil Stringer:

And in that middle open area place there's two-meter walls, six-foot walls on either side, so it's totally private and totally enclosed. And there's a pool in there. Now, it's not a lap pool that I can swim in. If I want to swim in, take me five or six strokes, that's it. But I don't swim, I lounge in there. I I said when I don't swim, I lounge in there, I float in there. That's my space, where I think you'd be amazed how many of my creative ideas come from that place. You'd be amazed how much copy I write with my elbows on the side of that place and if I'm really honest, you'd be amazed how many calls I make to clients from in the pool.

Chris Grimes:

And I have experienced that firsthand. I have spoken to you when you're sitting around.

Neil Stringer:

Right, it depends who I'm talking to and what I think their reaction's going to be yes, but that's my space, my private space, my happy place. That's my Zen zone. I call it the Zen zone. When I'm writing posts or in emails, I always refer to the Zen zone. That's it.

Chris Grimes:

Of all my circa 250 episodes, no one's ever described their clearing as their Zen Zone, so I love that. Thank you. What do you say on your?

Neil Stringer:

you ask people on your other podcasts I'm listening to well, is your happy place? Where do you go to get closer, free? Immediately, it came to mind. Well, that's going to be my Zen Zone. The second or the back of it would be the beach. Now, ironically, I don't like the sand. It gets everywhere. You can't take your electronics onto the beach.

Chris Grimes:

Oh no, it's nasty. A lot of people would say you can't bring your electronics into the swimming pool area either, but you've obviously got something set up there.

Neil Stringer:

Yes I can control that. I cannot control grains of sand, but there's a couple of nice restaurant, beach throw type things that are literally on the beach and I like to go there early or mid-morning and stay there, have brunch and stay there for a few hours. I can take my iPad, I can write, I can think, I can watch the scenery go by, if you see what I mean. So those are my two spaces.

Chris Grimes:

And I love the fact you've got a cunning plan B in there as well, which is very Baldrick of you to have two. So there has been some buildings that I gather of late recently in your dwelling next door, so presumably you've been at beach pad a bit more often yeah, I usually make habits of going for a few hours once a week and sometimes twice.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, but that's my space. So, if I may, can I choose the zen zone as being the one we we anchor to, because I think that's where you're most creative, that's where the copy doctor, the sort of magic of what you weave, hums from that Zen Zone.

Neil Stringer:

Let's just segue and explain the name copy doctor just for one second. Sure, sure, I have a PhD in clinical counselling and things, hence the doctor bits, which is a title I can properly and regularly use, should. So I choose. But I sort of retired in 2015 and started writing copy in 2016 copy marketing. One of the advantages I get is because I have a lot of phd level psychology training and all that. I know how people think. But if you know how people think, it's relatively easy to motivate them to take a course of action that you'd like them to take Persuasion, if you like. Yes, notice. I said persuasion, not manipulation. I noticed that, yeah, and for the longest time I was struggling, caught between a rock and a hard place. Am I the copy guy? Am I the doctor? Am I the copy guy? Am I the? Am I Dr Neal? Am I the cancerist? Cancer the therapist, the coach, the life coach or whatever. And then a sometime mentor of mine said I've got this. Call yourself a copy doctor.

Chris Grimes:

Boom.

Neil Stringer:

That you need, that. You don't but say on LinkedIn you can be copy or you can be the therapy. You can't be both. You have one profile. And so he's a guy called johnny cooper said that. He said he should just hit me be the copy doctor, if nothing else, nobody else can call himself that.

Chris Grimes:

I love the fact you've amplified johnny cooper he and I. He's somebody else I'm connected to and he's going to be in my show in a few weeks time as well. Actually so I love the fact also, he, you, you're on to something anyway, and what I know about teaching on personal brand, which is we need to have something called an operator word which makes people go wait what? So? Copy doctor is very clever. In the same way, I call myself a motivational comedian. It's something that makes people go wait, what I'm just?

Neil Stringer:

I'm just about to start next week a weekly. It's going to be a Facebook Live, because I don't know how to do the tech for podcasts with my eyesight and technical. It'll just be a Facebook Live, but it's going to be called the Copy Doctor Prescription and every week we're going to take a symptom and we're going to diagnose the symptom and come up with a treatment and that's going to start next week and that actually, if you remember my post about the epiphany the other day, about having listened to that, the sentence he said, or the phrase he said, was it's time to move Now. He was talking about moving as in getting physical. But this has been niggling in the back of my mind and a couple of people have been saying why don't you? Why don't you? That was my decision, that's where I'm going to move and we'll start next week.

Chris Grimes:

And thank you for that. You're referring to the Roger Black episode that I did in this podcast, where he said that, yeah, reminded me of that.

Neil Stringer:

And in fact, in my Facebook post I told Wonderful Rather brilliantly.

Chris Grimes:

when I first came up with the golden baton idea, that very episode was the first time I passed Roger Black the golden baton, when he'd only won silver in the Olympics.

Neil Stringer:

He was going to yeah, but he won gold in two world championships.

Chris Grimes:

I'm taking nothing away. He's an absolute legend of an athlete. I can't wait to see if you get Akabusi on, but anyway we digress.

Chris Grimes:

We digress. So thank you for choosing the clearing. Also, I'm glad you've shared the epiphany, and also why we are calling you, or referring to your beautiful operator word of the copy doctor. It makes complete sense, lovely. So here we are, then, in the copy doctor's zen zone. I'm now going to arrive with a tree in your clearing and I hope you don't mind me trying to bring a shrubbery Ah the shrubbery into your Zen Zone, and we're going to shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out. Now this is where you've had five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention. When I revisit that in a moment, I'll talk about the squirrels, and then the one is a quirkier, unusual fact about you, copy doctor Neil Stringer. It's not a memory test. So over to you First of all. Four things that have shaped you.

Neil Stringer:

Right? Well, the first three things. I guarantee that nobody listening to this knows about me. The fourth one they will, but my first one. I thought about this and I only changed this on my notes this morning.

Neil Stringer:

The first thing that shaped me has to be my upbringing. You know my parents. There was two of us, my brother and I. He's a couple of years younger than me, but he and I, as we lived together, it was, for the most part, a happy home. There was trouble and strife from time to time, in the same way that there is in any family dynamic. My brother and I, we had loving parents, did the best for us. They gave us the best that they possibly could, and that was that my dad was a locksmith, so he never made a lot of money. My mother was a deputy head in a school, so she was the one that made the family money, and so because of that and because of their attitudes, we got to do things. We went on holidays, we did all you know. We did, we did. We had a good, a good home. It was also a christian home.

Neil Stringer:

We were brought up, we were taken to church until or unless we were old enough to make a decision for ourselves and the church. Our family church was the Salvation Army. Now a lot of people don't recognize that that's a church. They know the social programs and all the rest of it. They were a church, first and foremost the outworking of their Christianity. It's the social stuff and we were taken there and, and that was fine, there was a load of kids our age there and we had a great life with the youth clubs and all the rest of it.

Neil Stringer:

And that was where I learned to play a brass instrument. You know, you may or may not know the Salvation Army of the brass bands and things, and that was very important to me. And later, when I got to go to secondary school well, to the grammar school, you know, I spent a lot of time. The reason I chose that grammar school, which I had to pass an exam to get in, was because they had a brass band and an orchestra. And by the time I'd finished my grammar school life, you know, I was in three brass bands the salvation army, one of the school, one and a regional one and I used to play trumpet in the orchestra as well and in fact the highlight or the peak of my musical playing career was standing in front of a full orchestra playing a Haydn trumpet concerto with no music. Three movements, no music.

Chris Grimes:

That was the peak or the height of my A trumpet solo with three movements, yeah, a full concerto written by Haydn Joseph Hay haydn and with no other music apart from you on the trumpet. So you're talking about a solo with an orchestra behind me. Sorry, it's because you said with no music. Oh, I see, sorry you weren't reading.

Neil Stringer:

No, no sheet music, yeah, wow remembering wow, and that was the heights of my skill level and it was the most terrifying thing I ever did. And then I said, since, I said then, after that, I said I'll never and I'll never do it again. So anyway, that was the the epitome, if you'd like, of my practical music thing, and in fact I was good enough, I decided to. I was auditioning for several universities and also I went down to the Royal College of Music, behind the old Albert Hall, to see if I could get entrance there and this is what I was going to do and I was going to stay on in school for a gap year, but as a sort of peripatetic music teacher. You're taught by this, teaching kids to play.

Neil Stringer:

And then that's when it hit me. There's three things we're all human beings, right, and there's three things we do. We have a profession, and I don't mean you're a professional as in, you're an architect, or you're a lawyer, or you're a professional as in, we do something to make money. The next level up in life comes when we have a vocation. And we have a vocation, that's when we understand what our big why is and things elevate. But from a professional vocation, for example, I think nurses, teachers good ones have to have a vocation, not a profession.

Neil Stringer:

Yes, but there's another, and I realized that teaching music for 40 hours a week wasn't playing in various bands or orchestras or whatever it's what I would would do. It wasn't a vocation, it was a profession, it was a job. Yes, and once that realization hit, I didn't want to do it and I didn't play for two years after that because I didn't want to do that. Now there's another level on top of vocation, which is called calling, and when you have a calling, you elevate the top of the chart because it puts a different context behind everything you do. Yes, it's all about alignment, it's all about I could talk forever.

Chris Grimes:

This is lovely, lovely, yes, all right, okay so going back to my upbringing.

Neil Stringer:

I was brought up as my brother was to know right from wrong Didn't mean we always did it, but we certainly knew it. I didn't drink. I mean obviously my household was teetotal. It was abstinence. That's the Salvation Army for you.

Neil Stringer:

I'm not going to say I am teetotal now, but I might as well be, because I honestly can't remember the last time I had a can of beer or a glass of wine it was with some dinners. So it's not that I don't have alcohol in the house, not for any other reason. It just doesn't occur to me. It doesn't call my name and I can look you in the eye and say I might be the one person you've ever met who's never even smoked a joint. I have never done drugs of any description other than were prescribed by the doctor. Yeah, and I'm quite happy about that. I'm quite proud of them. Later on in life, when I was heavily involved in the substance abuse environment, the fact that that didn't speak to me meant I could walk into a crack house looking for somebody, grab them and bring him out, because crack didn't speak my name.

Chris Grimes:

What a great expression it didn't speak my name.

Neil Stringer:

I love that it didn't call out to me it had no interest attraction or hook potentially or otherwise on my life.

Chris Grimes:

And I'm riffing here on the word calling, because what has called you is the next level, which is the calling.

Neil Stringer:

Yes. Well, the calling on my life and I'll mention it now, but we'll talk about it later is helping hurting people, providing help for hurting people. That could be hurting businesses, hurting people, whatever. Anyway, let's get back to this. The next one that shaped me was that nobody knows about.

Neil Stringer:

I once bought a commercial print shop. Ooh yeah, I knew business, I knew accounting. I knew business, I knew accounting, I knew marketing. So I mean, my first degree was um, which I didn't start but I didn't actually quite finish it because I got bored with it. But it was business and financial economics. So I know how to run a business. I know there's a red line and you have to be above it and in the black, or else you. You know I'm not a government. I can't just print money. We have to make money or we go bust. But that taught me a life lesson, because I wasn't a printer. It taught me this In business, whatever business you're in, you have to be able to do everything yourself, from sweeping the floor to the finished product, because if you don't, sooner or later you'll be held to ransom by somebody who can. Yes, it always happens. So that was number two. That was the life lesson that shaped me Always make sure whatever I get into, I can do everything.

Chris Grimes:

There's a lovely resonance there, with you being the copy doctor and having, back in the day, bought a print enterprise, because that's about publishing what it is you've crafted, right right.

Neil Stringer:

The next one was a week in cozumel in mexico, or at least on the line just off cozumel in mexico. This was back in 2016. In january 2016, I was looking on the internet one night and I found a post by a guy called Mitch Miller. Now JC will know who Mitch Miller is. He's done some similar things. You may or may not know who Mitch Miller is.

Neil Stringer:

Mitch Miller is a particularly badass copywriter and marketer. He's made the seven figures easily. He's the guy that will pass the baton to you. He's the guy that may or may not give you the time of day, because he doesn't have to. It's not that he's ignorant or arrogant, he just doesn't have to. And the one thing I love about him he tells you what he thinks. He doesn't care whether it's politically correct, he doesn't care what you think. He won't tolerate being judged. He's just unique. He won't tolerate being judged, he's just unique.

Neil Stringer:

Anyway, I saw a post from him saying I've got a bit of time. I want to mentor somebody for a month or two $900, first come, first serve. So I sent him a message instantly. I said it's me. He said okay, I'll put you on to Monogrel. She'll send you a payment. I said don't bother, I haven't got $ $450. At the moment I'm a bit broke. Well, why are you calling me? I said because something you said makes me think you're the man to help me and teach me.

Neil Stringer:

So we went backwards and forwards. He said I'll tell you what he said. You have to guarantee that if I work with you for a year, you will not listen to or talk to or work with any other guru, anybody, anything. It's me, me or me. That's that guru. Anybody said anything you haven't. It's me, me or me. That's how I can do that.

Neil Stringer:

He said when do you think you'll be able to pay the 450? He said, which is now what we seem to be talking about. I said I don't know, but I'll pay you at some point in the year. But anyway, we, we got. Well, that's maybe you know, if you, I have this thing. If you don't ask, you don't get, and if you do ask, the worst somebody can say is no, yes, yes, Sometimes they're not polite about the way they say that, but that's on them, not on me.

Neil Stringer:

Yes, so anyway, we agreed to work together and we had calls every week or two or whatever, and after about November we got towards November that year and he said I'm having a private mastermind in Isle of the Euras or whatever it was called the little island, island of the women, whatever the Spanish is just off the coast of Cozumel. He said if you can find the airfare, you can come. So I came and he was charging a lot of money for people to go to that. There was about seven of us in his house for a week and I flew into Cozumel and we were all meeting at the airport waiting for different people to fly in from different places. You know, and I'm sitting there and I'm thinking what the heck am I doing here? I mean, I knew Mitch and his partner, Matt, because I'd been speaking with them for a year anyway, but these other people are coming in. I'm thinking these people are so outside my comfort zone I can't even imagine how they do what they do.

Neil Stringer:

For example, there's one guy I'm not going to tell you their names because it's not fair this kid in his 20s making $34,000 a month selling leads to roofers in the States he wanted to live. His dream was he wanted to live in the harbour in Baltimore, Maryland, and he couldn't afford a million for a penthouse back then. So you know what he did. He bought an old houseboat, did it up, moored it so he got electricity in the harbour in Baltimore. So that's where he lived, that's where he worked, that's where he worked. If you wanted to at one time, just put it around the harbour, he could do that too. Well, how about that for thinking out of the box? Yes, Anyway, this guy, the way he used to do his business was he used to watch the weather forecasts all over the States, see where the hurricanes and the tornadoes would be and all the rest of it.

Neil Stringer:

Lado's will be there and all the rest of it. He used to find and do a deal with a local roofer and sell them leads. Then he'd saturate the local area with geotagged Facebook ads, say look, there's going to be a storm. You may or may not lose your roof. You know damn well you won't get a roofer for six months, but we'll guarantee we'll get a tarpaulin on your roof at least within 24 hours.

Chris Grimes:

Wow, great marketing, yes, so 34,000 a month.

Neil Stringer:

Last I heard from him he was living in the Middle East and he was pulling down several times that amount, but anyway, that was that. Then there was another guy from Texas and I'm looking at him. You can tell when somebody's even dressed in t-shirt and jeans and cowboy boots, by the quality of them they're Calvin Klein's or whatever. You can tell there's money behind the rags. And that guy was pulling down a million dollars a month. Part of it was in commercial residential real estate, part of it was selling trading systems to extreme high net worth individuals.

Neil Stringer:

You weren't making 600 grand a year as the senior partner of xyz law firm. You couldn't go to one of these things and I just blew me apart, blew me away. And then you know what? One day it dawned on me these were just ordinary, everyday people like me. They were just damn good at what they did. And if they could be that good at what they did, why couldn't I? You know? And they were the nicest people you could make as well. There was no airs and graces, no high-fidelity attitude. They're nothing. They took me for who I was, walks and all all, if you like. And that was good. It didn't matter whether I was in their league. Their attitude was we're all human beings, therefore we're all in the same league.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, we all have the same pain points. We all have the same desires needs wants Right, right.

Neil Stringer:

So after that five days, I went home. It was December, so I started work in January, and January 2017 was my first $10,000 a month as the copy doctor. You know why? Well, as a copywriter, as needed, I had not got to copy doctor yet, but, yeah, writing copy, I had my first ever $10,000 a month. The difference was I'd been hanging around with people who were very, very good, instead of hanging around with mediocre people or people who were on my level. I was hanging around with people who were in the next stratosphere. Yes, and I genuinely believe that. It's like Roger Black said you want to run fast. Hang around with people who run faster. Yes, it's the same principle.

Chris Grimes:

You're also a real wonderful advocate of what's meant for. You won't pass you by the idea of being attuned to opportunities and windows or doors with a limited hinge open.

Neil Stringer:

It took me seeing a Facebook ad or Facebook post one Monday night to get me to that place in Cozumel 11 and a half months later to make him money as a copywriter starting.

Chris Grimes:

January the 1st, by surrounding yourself with brilliant people.

Neil Stringer:

Yeah.

Chris Grimes:

Love that.

Neil Stringer:

Yeah, all right, now the big one, number one. This is the biggie. Now, some of my audience, my email list, some of my Facebook audience, they know something about this because I started talking about it gently. It was the 16th of May 2020. It was actually. I remember at the time it was 4.45 in the afternoon. That's when I went blind, whoa, as in blackness, as in blind, and I called the hospital, my doctor at the hospital, and he said come in here. And I said I can't get there now because I'll have to find a car and a driver and you're all going to be shot when I come. First thing in the morning. I was there at seven o'clock the next morning. That resulted in eight days in hospital on a drip, with massive amounts of steroids pumping into my body, not to be advised, but that was the best way they could come up with getting the inflammation down, because what had happened was my optic nerves got damaged by inflammation caused by blood sugar spikes.

Chris Grimes:

Wow.

Neil Stringer:

Wow. Now I have type 2 diabetes. You know that's the one that you cause yourself, not the one that you're born with. But nobody told me about any of this. I was asymptomatic. I had no problems ever until this, and so I was in hospital for eight days on steroids and then a lot of oral medication.

Neil Stringer:

When I got home, I couldn't stand up. I was so weak. If I fell onto the floor I couldn't get myself off the floor. I had no strength in my thighs or my legs or anything like that. And you know what? As a result of that they told me I couldn't look at the screen, even the TV. For five or six months I'd got some eyesight back before they discharged me, so that was okay. I could function, I could get around the house and things, but I couldn't work. I couldn't do it. So I lost everything. I lost all my clients and everything, because if you've got a raft of copywriting clients, which I had in those days, they won't copy now. They don't want to wait six months to get it. They'll go and find somebody else. Then somebody else has got their feet under the table. And the one thing that I learned about copywriting clients or any other sort of client, for that matter.

Chris Grimes:

For that matter. They're not exactly loyal. They're not exactly what. Sorry, Because loyal.

Neil Stringer:

Loyal, yeah, yeah, they want what they need for them and they want it now, which is nothing wrong with that. But any concept of loyalty, especially six months later. Oh well, I've got somebody else now. I can't ditch him and come back to you.

Neil Stringer:

So that all went, and so I started writing articles for some full amount, for half a cent a word, and that's obscene. Normally, if I'm charging by the word which I don't would be something like 10 cents back in the day reasonably should have been 5 cents, so I was doing it for 10 bucks. But you know what that guy said if you can write me 6, 7, 800, 900 word articles on topics that I'll give you. There was no AI or anything in those days to do it the easy way, not that I'd do it that way anyway, but this was research and written. He said I will pay you out the day that you email me the copy. And so, okay, I'll do that. And I was making $40, $50, $60 a day most days. That was enough to pay my rent and to buy food Gosh. And so I was humble enough to work for nothing.

Chris Grimes:

Yeah.

Neil Stringer:

And I did that for 11 months Whilst you recovered.

Chris Grimes:

I mean, that's such a sort of catharsis, isn't it A sort of real full break on your life?

Neil Stringer:

and then you've got to adapt and be flexible well, it was after five or six months and then I started doing that and I'll tell you the way I was doing it. You give me a title and I just go to google and do a search and you know, on google you get all these other little questions with the little flick down arrows and click those and I'd see what people were talking about about that subject, cut and paste that and then write an article. And that's how I used to do it. Yes, and then after about 11 months the guy approached me from Australia and he had a small digital agency and wanted to know if I could write all his copy for his clients, because he wasn't any good at copying and writing ads and all that, but he was good at what he did. So he agreed to pay me two and a half thousand dollars a month on a retainer. That was a big kick up from half a cent to word.

Neil Stringer:

And now I got walking around money, I could move, I could do pretty much whatever I wanted. I was doing okay, and that lasted for just under 12 months until I cancelled it. And I said to this guy I said look, nothing for nothing If I piecemeal priced out all the work I'm doing for you. You should be paying me 15 grand a month and I know you can't, but I can't keep working at that level for the two and a half. Can you double it or go to four or five or something? He said I can't.

Chris Grimes:

I said okay, then we're done and it was important when he arrived, and so there was oh, and so there was a oh yeah yeah, the half a cent.

Neil Stringer:

a word was life-changing. It was critical when it came along, sent to me. When the Australian guy came along, that was sent to me. I'll tell you how it got. I saw an advert. You know how you see these adverts, for I'll send you 100,000 or 100 million emails and all the rest of it. No, I'm not doing that. Somebody I saw sent me a cold pitch which says you know, in the about section on the webpage, we will put your message into that about section so you know that somebody's going to see it. And I paid for it. I thought, well, why not? So I paid for a million of these things. I put a very simple message this is me, this is what I do. Call me. One person in the world responded to that and he's the guy that paid me two and a half grand a month on. Regina, tell me somebody, somewhere, wasn't orchestrating all this or pulling the strings and you were still taking action.

Chris Grimes:

A bit like Roger Black's point it's time to act, time to run. You did something about it, rather than just lie down and play a victim who's got a health scare.

Neil Stringer:

Right, you do something. Yes, I have done with it. I mean, I had a couple of friends that had helped me out. They'd given me money to pay the rent. My landlords at the time had cut my rent in half because, you know so, there were people who helped me time and cut my rent in half because you know so, the people that helped me. And the first thing I did once I got on my feet was it took me in two or three months, but I paid everybody back, every single sentence before I spent any money on me.

Neil Stringer:

Yeah, so you clawed your way back out yes, yeah, even though they said you don't need it. I have one guy said to me, a canadian, I have more money than than god. I don't need it, doesn't, doesn't matter, don't worry about it. I said you don't understand, I have to pay back. Yes, because this comes down to integrity and things like that. I said I have to pay it back.

Chris Grimes:

And are you back on top of your health scare now as in you've got type 2 diabetes, but presumably to diabetes, but presumably, and your eyesight was affected.

Neil Stringer:

But it's recovered enough now for you to be able to do what you do. Oh, my eyes are 20-20 vision. It's been tested, but the link, the cable, the optic nerve between the eye and the brain doesn't work effectively. This eye, if you have 100, let's say you have 100% vision in your left eye, mine has about 4.5% to 5% vision. Wow, okay. Vision in your left eye, mine has about four and a half to five percent vision. Wow, okay. In this eye I have 45 to 50 percent vision, depending on how tired I am or whatever, and that's as good as it's ever going to get wow and so I I've dealt with some of the best ophthalmic surgeons in the world.

Neil Stringer:

The doctors I have here are internationally recognized doctors. They go over the world lecturing and things, so I know that what they're telling me is as good as it gets. Yes, I've spoken, and the problem is no ophthalmist anywhere can fix an optic nerve you've reminded me of the monty python line in life, in life of brian.

Chris Grimes:

I'm blind but now I can see, so I'm glad you can now see again. So you recovered. Well, it's a few songs.

Neil Stringer:

There's a few hymns in the church about that.

Neil Stringer:

Once I was blind, but now I see, and so on and so on, and I think that's where monty python life of brian got it from. But now I can see I've got several pairs of glasses, depending on what I'm doing. If I'm sitting in my recliner watching the tv, I don't have any glasses. If I'm walking, I walk with a cane. Not because I have a problem walking, because if I'm walking and looking where I'm going, I can't see the floor, yeah, and so I don't see steps or uneven things. But if I'm walking with a cane, I can feel that, yes, so I've learned to adapt you are.

Chris Grimes:

Adaptability personified is what I was going to say. That's fantastic. There's a recurring thing about adapting well.

Neil Stringer:

Well there's. You know, trials beset all of us from Tungsta. You can sit in the gutter and have a pity party, but you know what you have? A pity party. Nobody comes, nicely put, yes, exactly Nobody comes. So you might as well get up, dust yourself down, put one foot in front of another and get on with it.

Chris Grimes:

Yes To the extent that you can. It's not how you knock down, it's how you get up again. You know, you pick yourself up, dust yourself down and start all over again here's the lesson that came from those four things.

Neil Stringer:

yeah, it's not about troubles or the strife or the disaster, it's about blessings and gratitude. And I have learned, whenever I need to motivate myself and on days that I don't need to motivate myself, I always start my day in quick, quiet reflection in the zen zone out back, and I always begin by counting my blessings and being grateful for what I have got. And I keep doing that until I start worrying about what I haven't got. See, worries insidious. There's no point in worrying. Worrying doesn't change an event in the future, it just trashes today. So there's no point. I had to learn, I had to psych myself out as a psychologist to train myself not to worry about stuff of which I don't control, and in that way I start my day in a state of positivity and energy, with a grateful attitude. That's the lesson that those four things have shown me. And you know, if I feel a bit negative or somebody's worrying me coming up, then I just stop what I'm doing, take a beat and go on.

Chris Grimes:

count my blessings again wonderful, that sounds very simplistic. No, it's wise, sage-like and profound actually no, I was having this conversation.

Neil Stringer:

I was trying to share this with somebody on facebook two days ago and she said this sounds good, but how often should I be grateful? I said all the time you have to practice gratitude and gratefulness and counting your blessings until it becomes as natural to you as breathing.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, until you don't have to consciously think about it and I was going to say on the daily, but it is, it's on the perpetuity, it's always be grateful right.

Neil Stringer:

Start the day with it, finish the day with it carpe diemm, which is quite a stoic philosophy as well.

Neil Stringer:

And it's because of that I know that me, as a human being, I am enough. What I mean by that is I might not have any money to go buy some food next week, but right here, right now, in the present, I am enough. If I'm pitching for a client, if I'm pitching for business, if I get it, great, if I don't get, it doesn't matter. I mean yes, and so in that way you start to disassociate yourself or disconnect yourself from the outcome, and when you're not connected emotionally to the outcome, you'd be amazed how much more you get yes, we've done four things that have shaped you.

Chris Grimes:

Now we're on to three things that inspire you.

Neil Stringer:

Basically, that's people. A guy called Jim Chow. He started off as a student of mine. I was teaching him some self-coaching and he became a very valuable team member, and so he inspires me. He's not afraid to tell me how it is. He's not afraid to tell me where I'm wrong. He's not afraid to tell me who it is. He's not afraid to tell me where I'm wrong. He's not afraid to tell me I'm very off track, and so that guy inspires me. He lives just outside Kuala Lumpur with his wife and his nine-year-old girl, and a year and a half ago, when it was my 65th birthday, he chose to fly from KL and come to my birthday party. Mint a lot gin chow. You said gin chow, c-h-a-o gin as in tonic, but with two n's g-i-n-n great name.

Chris Grimes:

Thank you, that's a great way to clarify. Hello. I'm gin as in tonic, but with two n's.

Neil Stringer:

I love that but he he flew into my pub and on the on the Friday night we took out. I took over a local restaurant. It was closed except for me and my people and we had a blast we really did and he came to that and that meant more to me than you can imagine. The other thing is the ordinary people, or some of the ordinary people in my world, and they know who they are, so I'm not going to mention them by name. But here, where I live, there's a wonderful concept which drives non-intimate relationships. Let me explain what I mean by that, because it keeps everybody safe.

Neil Stringer:

In ancient Greek, here we go. I had to learn some of that once. There are seven different words, different words for different aspects of love. In English we have one word, love, In Greekreek they have seven, and when you understand that and you study that, that's actually quite helpful. But where I live there's a definition of a special type of relationship. I've got three different women ladies two are married and one single. They're all younger than me, but each one of them, for their own reasons, chose to adopt me into their family. That means I'm their big brother. Sorry, I get a bit emotional about it. It's a true family sentence and I call them, I address them as M-Guy, that's my sister in Vietnamese. It means that they've chosen to take on the responsibility of looking after me like they would a natural brother.

Chris Grimes:

That's so lovely. I was deliberately being silent there.

Neil Stringer:

Yeah, they care about me and they check up on me. And here's the cool thing about being a brother and a sister in this concept there are implied boundaries that keep us all safe. There is no concept of temptation or whatever, or being inappropriate. You can be very intimate in the sense of very close. Here. People don't touch. You wouldn't dream of touching a person that you didn't know, particularly a member of the opposite sex. They have no problem in giving me a hug and an embrace because I'm their brother. It's an experience that I've never experienced anywhere else in the world. It's just love and acceptance. I accept you as my brother. I accept you as my sister, warts and all. There's nothing you can do that's going to shock me. There's nothing you can do that I'm ever going to judge you. Whatever you need, at whatever time of day or night, you call me and I'll be there.

Chris Grimes:

So of its purest form.

Neil Stringer:

That's beautiful, lovely that's one of the reasons why I don't think I will ever leave here now we're on to squirrels.

Chris Grimes:

What are your two monsters of distraction? Your two, oh, squirrels borrowed from the film Up, that's where the dog is totally distracted in the right. So what are you? What never stops you in your tracks?

Neil Stringer:

I'll say something to make you laugh and then I'll explain it. Being surrounded by beautiful women especially if I'm sitting at the beach, you know there's plenty of eye candy, but that's not what I mean. I'm talking about heart. I'm talking about attitude, not about giving a girl marks out of 10. I'm talking about the beauty that's on the inside, the beauty that's demonstrated by not what people say, but by the actions they take. When nobody's even looking, when they're not meeting expectation, they do whatever they do because they believe it's the right thing to do. That's the sort of beauty that I'm talking about and I find that tremendously inspiring. I mean going back to surrounded by beautiful women. Attitude and heart is more important than the wrapping paper. Yes, that's, you don't even notice the wrapping paper if you can see the hearts.

Chris Grimes:

You've done a brilliant hybrid there of an inspiration and a squirrel. So one of your squirrels is the idea of core beauty, but it's also a squirrel and it's an inspiration.

Neil Stringer:

I'll give you a couple more. I'll give you a couple of brief examples of transformation that I've been a part of bringing about in people's life or business. That's the other thing that inspires me. I'm going to give you a couple of quick examples from business writing copy. And then one it's not about business. There's a lady called Louise, which is called Louise, and she made a little program. She was a chef. She made a little program on a sugar detox challenge and she hired me to write the copy for her. We came through that Australian agency actually it's her, this one and mine and I wrote her the landing page. It was the landing page to sell this little video-based course and she was selling a $37 course. It was a $37 offer. Tons of green forfield, evergreen, and my subject line I came up with the hook that I came up with for the landing page was a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down dot dot dot, except when it doesn't. So I took Judy Andrews, mary.

Chris Grimes:

Poppins yes.

Neil Stringer:

Mary Poppins and then I wrote the landing page. When we launched that, selling a $37 offer, that lady made $42,000 in 14 days.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. That's the copy doctor who is magic right there.

Neil Stringer:

Yeah, yeah, there's another guy, a guy called Mike. He's just bought the Miami Times. I saw him on Facebook the other day. Anyway, he was a talent agency in the sense that he took ordinary, everyday people, people like me and you and turned them into public talent, into minor celebrities. There's a great thing in the advertising world for having the player or the face or whatever be an ordinary, everyday human being, not some superstar. And so he said how do I get people to come to my webinar, which I wrote? And then my training course is bloody, bloody well.

Neil Stringer:

So I came up with the idea about. I looked at what a lot of famous people did, what Mick Jagger did before he was Mick Jagger, what John Lennon did before he was John Lennon. And you know, I found out one guy was a milkman, one guy was a porter wearing dead bodies around in a mortuary, and I wrote this. So each chapter was one of these stories. They were all true. This is where they were, this is what they did, this is what they became. And the killer was if they can, why can't I? And that was the title of the book.

Neil Stringer:

And we put together a webinar to get people to sign up for his course and all the rest of it. But that whole program made him a million bucks, wow, and I know that because he was breaking the bed. But I saw a thing on Facebook, a guy called called Russell Branson, who you may or may not have heard of, but he runs a thing called the two comma cop and you've got to have had verified earnings through his funnel, on his click funnel software of over a million dollars and there's a picture of Michael and his assistant on stage with Branson with their award and he wrote about how we did it. We got it thanks in no part to Neil Stringer and the copy he wrote and all the rest of it and that's something like that the picture of that Facebook things on my website. I got a kick out of that yes, wonderful taught me a lesson.

Neil Stringer:

I should have got a percentage on the back end.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, it paid me something like five grand and he made a million and I have to say that whole magic of copy doctor nurse is why we connected and why I got in touch with you, because you know very generously you've said in me and you and I working together that you're going to help with the legacy life reflections copy too.

Neil Stringer:

Yeah, very exciting we're going to make it fine. The other one I want to tell you on this category I'm going to give you three and up too. This is a guy called Rodney. Now, Rodney is my age, maybe slightly older. He had a long-term job. He held a job down here, had a beautiful family wife, daughter, son but he was a crack addict and, try as he might, he just couldn't get clean.

Neil Stringer:

That man has been clean now for 20-odd years, transformation, the life I departed. It's things like that that make even the bad days worthwhile.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, and you did mention earlier on in your wonderful weaving of your narrative, the idea that you can just go into a crack den and whip somebody out, because crack doesn't speak to you. So presumably that's where part of that story comes from.

Neil Stringer:

There are times when I had to go find him because I cared enough about him, the human being, and his wife and his daughter and his son to do that. You see the big mistake people make. You say to people you know what are you? Oh, I'm an actor. No, you're not. Acting is what you do? Oh, I write. No, copywriting is what you do. When you care about the man or you care about the woman or you care about whoever it is, is you think, strip away what they do, then you're in a position to bring transformation. Yes, and the problem is what people don't understand if I don't strip you away from what you do, taking crack crash becomes who you are. Yes, whatever it is, even if it's relatively healthy or wholesome, you become defined by what you do, not who you are. Yes, even if it's good, even if, oh, I'm the lawyer. No, law is what you do, not who you are. See, we're human beings, but we live as human doings and we have to get back from doing to being.

Chris Grimes:

Beautifully put. One quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. Neil Stringer.

Neil Stringer:

Nobody, but nobody, but nobody knows about this other than people who are close in your family. It's not quirky, but it's certainly different. I once started and passed through the church and the reason for that was I was running a substance abuse program. It's one of the two areas I specialized in as a therapist, as Dr Neil. The other one was even more niche and it's not relevant to talk about, but I might talk to you about it and tell you what it is afterwards. So I'm running this substance abuse program, right, and we got to the stage where we acquired property and we were running a residential program and people were being sent to my residential program as an alternative to being incarcerated or on the way out from being incarcerated. So this was all good stuff and I was aside from that. I was doing outpatient stuff, group therapy, one-on-one stuff, all that sort of good stuff. And I was aside from that. I was doing outpatient, self-group therapy, one-on-one stuff, all that sort of good stuff. But I progressively became convicted and I use that word in the true sense of the word but there had to be a spiritual component to recovery, because God is the ultimate healer, not me. He's the one that brings the transformation not me.

Neil Stringer:

Now, a lot of people won't agree with that. They'll take whatever mental to them. They can do whatever they want. I don't have to apologize for what I do or did anymore. I'm too old. I've been down this road too long for that. I don't give two hoots what people think.

Neil Stringer:

And so I instituted a church program. Everybody that came to my program had to go to a church service twice a week. It was not choice, it was obligatory. And people said, oh, that's, how could you do that? They knew it was a faith-based program before they came into it.

Neil Stringer:

We made it clear you didn't have to come, you could have gone somewhere else. But if you come into me, this is what your day's gonna look like, this is what you're gonna do. Until I changed my mind and think, okay, you don't need this now. And I used to. On a sunday morning I used to have family members could come. We all used to sit down and have a dinner together on sunday lunchtime and their family members could come, and then they could have a few hours free time to go and be with their family or whatever, or whatever. It was just part of the overall therapy package. But I used to say if your family wants to come for dinner with us, on my dime they will come to my church service first, because it's only then that they'll really appreciate what's going down.

Chris Grimes:

Yes.

Neil Stringer:

And Rodney, who we talked about before. He always says to this day it was one Tuesday night in a church service that he felt God took the burden away.

Chris Grimes:

Such a lovely interpretation, neil, of everything that we're describing. That's beautiful. It resonates also with the give it up to your higher self as part of the component of the 12 steps program. There is something more existentially profound at play. Well, I run 12 step programs.

Neil Stringer:

When I was doing my doctorate, I had to go to goodness knows how many 12 step programs and when you go to a secular 12 step program, there's more caffeine and nicotine consumed in the hour than anything else, and I'm not going to apologize for that People. Okay, so you might not have drunk a pint for a minute, but all you're doing unless you're still smoking like a chimney and you're still drinking coffee that's so thick the spoon stands up in it half coffee, half sugar. Don't tell me you're clean. All you've done is swap one addiction for another for another, coaching, coping mechanism. And when I was really in my groups you know people somebody said to me an awkward place hey, doctor, I've been clean for six months now. Oh really, how many cigarettes have you smoked today? Oh well, maybe tara. Don't tell me you're clean. Hard truth, absolutely, if I may.

Chris Grimes:

Now we've shaken your tree and now we're going to stay in the All right, don't tell me you're clean, hard truth, absolutely, if I may, now we've shaken your tree and now we're going to stay in the clearing which is in your Zen zone, and I'm just getting a lick on with the structure and now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold. You've been giving me this by the bucket load anyway, but when you're at purpose and in flow, neil Stringer, copy doctor, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Neil Stringer:

That was really simple. That was the easiest part of all this to prepare for. About a year ago I said to my team members I'm only going to do two things going forward I'm going to write and I'm going to talk. If I talk, you can interpret that as coaching or teaching or whatever. If it's not writing and it's not talking. If one of you guys can do it, fine. If not, find somebody who can, but don't bring it to me. And then took a whole weight off my shoulders because now I'm in. Now I'm in alignment. Now I'm following back to the conviction I'll write and I'll talk. I'm quite good at both.

Chris Grimes:

You certainly are. So that's a great answer to alchemy and gold. And now I'm going to ask you award you with a cake. Now Tell me about your cake, then what cake do you want?

Neil Stringer:

Well, anybody that's read my Facebook posts over the last few months or been on my email list, you know there's only one thing, that's tiramisu.

Chris Grimes:

So tiramisu, virtually so tiramisu virtually, metaphorically, shall be yours, is yours, um right, so this is where you get to put a cherry on the cake with stuff like what's a favorite inspirational quote that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future there's a quote, a verse from the bible, from the old testament, that I've always remembered, and I remembered it because somebody said it and I thought, oh, I've never read it.

Neil Stringer:

Yeah, and I looked it up and I thought this is good. And he says this for the bad times, rejoice not against me, o mine enemy. People are really good at rejoicing when you're down and out. The second part of that verse says when I fall, I shall arise. Now I might get up, or I might say oh whatever, rejoice not against me. Oh my enemy, all right, I might be going through it now, don't make too much fun of it, because when I fall, I shall arise. Not might arise, or possibly, or with a good, fair wind.

Chris Grimes:

No, when I fall, I shall arise which links so beautifully resonates with the hero's journey in the sort of crafting of storytelling. The idea of when you're down it's how you rise and then how you ultimately find your place to rise again links to maya angelou as well. And I rise, I will rise. Beautiful answer. With the gift of hindsight, what notes, help or advice, copy, doctor, neil Stringer, might you proffer to a younger version of yourself?

Neil Stringer:

two pieces of advice. One came from my dad, who came into my office one day he's the locksmith hourly paid, doesn't make a lot of money and I was doing what I was doing back in the day. He came into my office one day he's the locksmith hourly paid, doesn't make a lot of money and I was doing what I was doing back in the day. I was advising institutions like banks and companies like BMW UK and things on foreign exchange transactions, when I knew I could make more money in a month than he could make in, more money in a week than he could make in two or three months. And I had such great pleasure in showing him this and I will never forget this to my day in and day. He listened, didn't say anything, and then he said this Neil, it's nice to be important, but it's so much more important to be nice. And with that he got up and quietly left my office and never, ever set foot in an office of mine again.

Chris Grimes:

Wow.

Neil Stringer:

No, but he didn't love me or didn't want to spend time with me or whatever or whatever, but he never, ever, came near my place of work ever again, and I've never forgotten that. If I wanted to give a piece of advice to me, or you or anybody else, it would be this Stop focusing on what doesn't work.

Chris Grimes:

Instead, focus on what does, which plays back into your calling as well. If you just keep it into your calling, you can make choices that pull you towards that.

Neil Stringer:

I mean, I've got a friend girl, she's a single mom, she's working so hard in the online space. And girl, she's a single mom, she's working so hard in the online space, Not getting anywhere. I keep telling her Pivot what you're doing is not working.

Chris Grimes:

Do something else. A bit like sometimes you need to let go Absolutely. That's exactly it.

Neil Stringer:

And it's like several of your people have said on the podcast. I've listened to words to the effect you don't have to be perfect, but you do have to start yes, it's always the action towards that's going to bring about change.

Chris Grimes:

Do something, act, move, absolutely pivot, thank you. We're ramping up to shakespeare very shortly to talk about legacy and how you'd most like to be remembered, but just before we get there, this is the pass the golden baton moment, please. So now you've experienced this from within, who might you like to pass the golden baton along to, in order to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going?

Neil Stringer:

neil stringer well, I'd like to pass it to the guy who got me started, my first mentor, a guy called mitch miller, m-i-l-le-r, and I have heard of him.

Chris Grimes:

sorry because of our connection to Johnny Cooper, because I know Johnny Cooper knows him too. So thank you for that golden baton pass. So your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to furnish me with a warm introduction to Mitch Miller, and it's not a fait accompli. He doesn't have to say yes, but maybe he will. That's fantastic.

Neil Stringer:

Well, I can't speak for him, but I'll certainly give you an introduction. I'll certainly message him and say look, expect a call from this guy. I think an hour with this guy on his podcast might do you some good in terms of your audience and all the rest of it.

Chris Grimes:

And now inspired by Shakespeare All the World's a Stage and All the Bed of Women Merely Players. This is the actual book that I bought myself when I went to the Bristol Old Bay Theatre School. It says 16986. It's the real McCoy complete works of Shakespeare Borrowed from the Seven Ages of man speech. When all is said and done, neil Stringer, how would you?

Neil Stringer:

most like to be remembered. I'd like to be remembered or recognised for having a heart for helping nursing people. I'd like to be remembered for playing a small part in changing some people's lives profoundly, as in not flip-flopping, not here today and back to where you were tomorrow, but here today and then still there 20 years on, like Rodney. That's what I'd like to be remembered for, not for anything particularly that I've done or not done, but for helping bring about real, profound, deep transformation.

Chris Grimes:

Love that. Where can we find out all about you, Neil Stringer, on the old internet, please?

Neil Stringer:

Well, if you want to know about me as a copy doctor, there's thecopydoctorco not com but butco. Funny story. I said to jim, why didn't you get the copy doctorcom for me? He says simple, copy doctorco cost us 90 cents. Copy doctorcom would have cost us three thousand dollars. People can email me, neil at the copy familycom. You can go to that website. It's a little out of date but there's some testimonials and and things on there. The other place people can go.

Neil Stringer:

If they're interested in my dr neos side of things, the sort of counseling, the therapeutic side, the coaching side of things you can go to hfhpeoplecom say that again h, f, h people stands for helpful, hurting people, so so H-A-F-H peoplecom, and there it talks about four key pillars in life that I always revert to and go through if I'm taking somebody on for counseling or a therapy session. So the difference between counseling and coaching is simple. Counseling means I meet Chris where he's at and bring him gently to where he needs to be. Coaching is I take you from where you need to be and I show you where the stepping stones are to get to where you want to go, and so that's my passion of mine.

Neil Stringer:

I've written a lot of books on relationships on five level languages. I wrote what I would say what people say is a really good book on limited beliefs. It's graduate level teaching written in words so you could understand if you can read the daily mail. So it breaks down complicated mental processes and issues. That makes them digestible so you can get copies of that, or heck, I give these things away. So if people want to know more, either go to thecopydoctorco or thecopyfamilycom, which is a little basic, or hfhpcom, or just send me an email at thecopyfamilycom, as this has been your moment in the sunshine, in the good, listening to show stories of distinction and genius.

Chris Grimes:

is there anything else you'd like to say?

Neil Stringer:

neil stringer, that's a dangerous thing to say to me. Sure, I taught for a little bit. You know, roger black, I keep referring to that. I quite like that and the goal that did that triathlete for oscars. Talking, I could represent great britain and I could get the gold. How many hours have we got? We can pick any subject or we can just go and, I believe, deliver gold to people who are listening. We have to break this up If people want to hear more gold from me. I'm starting my own. It's going to be a Facebook Live next Wednesday I think it is Because I don't know how to do podcasts and it's going to be the copy doctor's prescription and we're going to take one symptom, a marketing symptom, and diagnose it and provide the solution every week for at least the next 12 weeks.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. So, neil Stringer, thank you so much for joining me. Chris Grimes, here on the Good Listening To Show, just a couple of quick announcements from me. If you'd like a conversation about being in the show yourself, look at thegoodlisteningtshowcom. And then Neil, as the copy doctor, is going to be helping me, particularly with helping you with legacylifereflectionscom, which is to record your story or the story of somebody really precious to you for posterity, lest we forget before it's too late. With no morbid intention, but it's a way of capturing that precious story where it'll take just two hours of your life, using this curated structure, to capture that precious life forever.

Chris Grimes:

So I've been chris grimes, but, more importantly, this has been neil stringer. Anything else you'd like to say, neil, just goodbye and thank you for listening. Thank you very much indeed. This has been the good listening to showcom, neil stringer. Good night. You've been listening to the good listening to show with me, chris grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how care of the series strands at the good listening to showcom website, and one of these series strands is called brand strand founder stories for business owners like you to be able to tell your company story, talk about your purpose and amplify your brand. Together we get into the who, the what, the how, the why you do what you do and then, crucially, we find out exactly where we can come and find you, to work with you and to book your services. Tune in next week for more stories from the Clearing and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.