The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Founder Story: Being Bold & Breaking the Mold with Susan McGhee, Trailblazing CEO of Flexible Childcare Services Scotland: When Childcare Meets Social Justice & Families Can Flourish

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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What does it take to revolutionize a childcare system that hasn't changed in decades? In this candid conversation, Susan McGhee – the vibrant, self-described "thrawn" (delightfully stubborn) founder & CEO of Flexible Child Care Services Scotland – reveals how her innovative pay-by-the-hour childcare model is transforming family lives across Scotland.

With 25% of Scottish children growing up in poverty, Susan recognized that traditional childcare structures were failing families with irregular work hours or financial constraints. Her solution? A genuinely flexible model allowing parents to book and pay for only the hours they need – saving families between £2,000-£5,000 annually while creating pathways back to employment, education, and economic independence.

But this isn't just about childcare. Susan shares powerful stories of how small innovations – like a "take what you need, give what you can" coat rail – create dignity-centered support for families facing multiple challenges. As she puts it: "We don't want people to just get by. We want people to flourish." The impact is measurable: nearly £2 million kept in the pockets of Scotland's most vulnerable families last year alone.

Through personal reflections on loss, resilience, and her own journey overcoming insecurities, Susan demonstrates the authentic leadership driving her organization's success. From surviving the pandemic weeks after launch to now employing nearly 200 people and supporting approximately 1,000 families, the five-year journey of FCSS reveals what's possible when we challenge outdated systems with bold, practical solutions.

Ready to rethink how childcare could work in your community? Connect with Susan on social media or visit fcss.org.uk to learn more about implementing flexible childcare models that truly meet families' needs.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Chris Grimes:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the Clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin.

Chris Grimes:

Boom and we're in. Welcome, welcome. Well, hang it thrice welcome to the Good Listening To Show Stories of Distinction and Genius. And this is a really special glow-up day because Susan McGhee from Flexible Child Care Services, Scotland has flown in specially from Edinburgh to be here today in the clearing. So very, very welcome and thanks for coming all this way to the Future Leap glow-up studios, as I like to call them, in the Good Listening To Show. So hello, susan.

Susan McGhee:

Hello, Chris, and thank you for having me in these swanky studios. It's very cool in here, so nice to fly down and be with you today.

Chris Grimes:

Lovely Now for those of you that haven't seen this show before where have you been? I've been doing about 250 of these monkeys, but this is the show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place of my guests, choosing, as they all arrive, to share with us their stories of well, just genius really. And this is a hybrid, because you're a founder of obviously Flexible Child Care Services Scotland, but you're also a very, very impressive leader. I had the privilege of seeing you speak when I was working with Dave Stewart at House for an Artist Do connect with Dave Stewart from Fresh Air Leadership on LinkedIn as well and that's how we met. So let's just ask you do you remember how we met Susan McGee?

Susan McGhee:

We absolutely. We met at House for an Art Lover in Glasgow with Dave, where we were doing a session for some fourth year business students from Glasgow University who were led by Matt Matt Offord, I think as well Another wonderful chair, Great person. Yeah, we had a super day and you did your Spartacus moment in front of a great big rusty elephant, so yeah, Very memorable from that point of view, but also thank you for remembering that I did that and I am indeed Spartacus.

Chris Grimes:

You'll always be Spartacus in my mind Wonderful, and in fact I was texting you as you arrived from Bristol Airport and I actually offered you a Morello Cherry Blonde or a Raspberry Bakewell were the two choices and, if I may say, you do remind me, looking at you, how beautifully, resplendently and colourfully you've turned up. Have you ever been called a Morello Cherry Blonde before?

Susan McGhee:

I absolutely haven't and I didn't think there was any message in that choice of cakes, but perhaps there was.

Chris Grimes:

Well, it was just too obvious a cake and there is cake coming up in what we're going to be doing as well. Good, I like cake. Cake is good. You've come to the right place. So you're a real trailblazer within providing flexible the clues in the title flexible childcare services. So for those of that, don't have a reference to your awesomeness yet, just talk us through how you've been really focused on addressing the idea that 25% of Scottish children are growing up in poverty and then enter the awesomeness that is Susan McGee to try and address that and put it right through what you're now achieving. And, just as I finish, blowing some happy smoke at you happy five years very, very recently, thank you. That's why I got in touch to say, boom, let's bring you into the clearing. So let's get you on the open road of how you most like to describe what you and Flexible Child Care Services Scotland do. And let me find your slide as well Look at that the Morello cherry blondie in all her resplendence Over to you Super.

Susan McGhee:

So Flexible Child Care Services Scotland was created. It came from an idea that One Parent Families Scotland were delivering or working on with some of the parents they were working with who wanted to go back to work but were on zero-hours contracts or really low-income employment and could not get back to work because they couldn't afford childcare. Flexible childcare is it does what it says on the tin. It's book and pay by the hour. Design your own bespoke session. So, unlike a commercial service, it's not a set full day or half day. It can be absolutely bespoke to what people need. It's not like a school type service which is nine till three saves people a lot of money on the cost of child care and 97% of our parents last year were better off by between two and more than £5,000. So for the thousand parents that we're currently working with, basing that on a kind of mean figure, it works out just close to £2 million back in the pockets of some of the poorest families in Scotland. So it's effectively tackling child poverty and making a change.

Chris Grimes:

And you're propping up the Scottish economy because those parents are then free freedom to make choices about going back to work, back to study, whatever they want to be doing.

Susan McGhee:

Those parents absolutely are, and there's a brilliant case study on our website of a mum who had been struggling to get back to work. She was a self-employed hairdresser, was only able to do a couple of clients, started to use our services, was able to do some more work, but has now opened a business and is employing other working mums in that business. So it's really contributing hugely to the economy. So we contribute to so many things to early education, to reducing the attainment gap, to tackling child poverty, to improving family well-being and to boosting the local and national economy.

Susan McGhee:

Flexible childcare is the way and this was your brainchild. The original idea came from something that One Parent Families Scotland did and initially it was a home-based sitter service type model that they'd sent somebody to the house of those families they were working with and they did a small pilot project of flexible daycare. And then I got involved and worked with them for around a year to take that model and scale that model. So we have developed it, worked out what works and what doesn't work, what the parameters are that need it to be successful and sustainable, how we maintain the quality of the experience for the children and young people. We now cater for children, from babies right up to 18 year olds, who have additional support needs. So there's a whole range of things that we have taken that seed of an idea and grown it and scaled it and have huge aspirations to do more.

Chris Grimes:

Congratulations, and also the fact you're five years in means you have ridden the crest of the wave of the pandemic as well, and when I heard you speak, I was blown away with a sudden image that occurred of you being like in a valley of adversity, screaming like a banshee in a good way in order to keep the wheels on the bus of Flexible Child Care Services Scotland. So I hope you'll tell us and give us some of those insights in some of the sort of struggles of the entrepreneurial journey as we go through.

Susan McGhee:

Absolutely. I mean, it has been hugely challenging over that five years. We launched in January 2020 and, of course, covid hit in March 2020. So it was a huge challenge to keep things going, to remain sustainable when the grant funding arena, I suppose, has changed so much and there's such limited grant funding available. Funding rates that come through the nursery education grants are not enough to provide the service. So there's a constant juggle to get that balance between financial sustainability, providing the level of flexibility that families need and ensuring the quality of early education for the children, and it has been really, really tough. This is the hardest role in my career to date, but, oh my goodness, it's the best. I absolutely love every minute of it.

Chris Grimes:

So let's get you on the open road of allowing me to curate you through the structure of the good, listening to show stories of distinction, genius. And, as I said, this is a leadership reflection, one because you are an awesome leader, but also it's a founder story because of the fifth year anniversary, recently celebrated. So for those of you again who haven't seen it before, there's going to be a clearing a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden betton and a cake. So it's all to play for. Marvelous, excellent. So the invocation is to go where you like, how you like, as deep as you like, whenever you like. So, uh, susan mcgee, ceo, the I didn't call you this yet, but I'm referring to you I'd like to call you the pied piper s of scotland is in the clearing that gave me a real giggle this morning when I saw that so, yeah, lovely, and so take that title, because I think it's, it's true, super.

Chris Grimes:

You're bringing gaggles of very grateful parents and children throughout Scotland as the pied piper excellent. So where does Susan McGee go to get clutter-free, inspirational and able to able to think? Where is what is your clearing or your serious happy place?

Susan McGhee:

first of all, I found this one really difficult when I looked at the thing. That was my serious happy place and a place to think. And they're probably slightly different places for me on a day-to-day basis and maybe sounds a bit sad but I do. I absolutely love work and I get a huge dopamine hit from working and from being with the children, their their sense of awe and wonder at the world and their curiosity and their interest in things. Just, I just love every minute of it and the joy on their faces and we're so privileged to look after them that it's just, it's wonderful. So I'm seriously happy when I'm in amongst the children in our services. But it's maybe not the best place to think and be creative.

Susan McGhee:

As the leader of an organisation, I can think about what shapes we can make with a play-doh, but thinking about how we lead the organisation through challenging times and how we scale and support more families perhaps doesn't work in that surrounding. So for thinking, I guess I've got a couple of places. One thing I really like to do is stop that really focused. Oh, I've got to solve this problem, I've got to deal with this and actually just go for a walk. And I focused and we've got to solve this problem.

Susan McGhee:

I've got to deal with this and actually just go for a walk, and I suppose that's that magic of diffuse thinking, isn't it, where you kind of set yourself something and then I'm going to stop thinking about that. But your brain's such a clever thing that even when I'm thinking you silly dog, stop that and dragging the dog along when I'm out for a walk that the brain is actually still working and finding solutions. So walking, being outside in the fresh air, really helps me to work through challenges and problems. And then in my sunroom on a Saturday morning at home I wake up early and I like to get up early. My poor husband gets a lie in, maybe to about nine o'clock if he's lucky on a Saturday, but I've usually had a couple of hours by then where I've sat and done a little bit of work or reading good leadership books. So just sitting there with the birds singing outside and the and Frank's snoring upstairs but no, it works well for me those kind of things.

Susan McGhee:

So it's nothing grand, it's just the simple things.

Chris Grimes:

You reminded me of, that Nietzsche quote that Dave Stewart from Fresh Air Leadership reminded me of, which is the best. Ideas happen outdoors, and that is indeed true. You've got your dog with you. By the sound of it, two dogs, yeah. And then we've got the sunroom. So you're going to choose which of those two spaces you'd like to be in now, because I'm going to arrive with a tree in your clearing, oh my goodness.

Susan McGhee:

Well, we better go to the sunroom, because the dogs are going to cause chaos otherwise, especially when they see a squirrel- there are squirrels coming as well.

Chris Grimes:

In fact, that's inspired by the film Up where the dog goes. Oh, squirrels, but that's coming. So we're going to be in your sunroom. I'm now going to arrive, a bit existentially deliberately, with a tree in your clearing and I'm going to shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out. You're very welcome to Holder, have an apple. Don't try and eat it. It's not got a sort of sleeping beauty-esque drug attached, but it is actually just a compu-pro. That's okay, lovely. So this is where you've been kind enough to have thought about yes, it's the five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you, susan McGee. Yep, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention, and that's the oak squirrels, as previously mentioned. And then the one is a quirky or unusual effect about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. So over to you to shake the canopy of your tree as you see fit, wow super Okie doke.

Susan McGhee:

Those four things that have shaped me, and I guess the obvious one first is the kind of those that came before and those that came after. So parents, family I come from a line of strong women. My mum's an incredibly strong woman. She was a businesswoman in social housing, studied at university when we were young. So there's that real role model, I suppose there and is a fiercely protective lioness of her family. There's that kind of thing. What a great expression fiercely protective lioness, she absolutely is.

Chris Grimes:

You've been wanting to get on the wrong side of her family. There's that kind of thing. What a great expression. Fiercely protective lioness she absolutely is.

Susan McGhee:

You've been wanting to get on the wrong side of her. And then I guess my mother in law, who lived with us when we first got married and is an incredible lady who brought up a large family there were nine of them with very little, she didn't have a lot, but brought up a family of really good people with integrity and were just lovely good people all of them. So I got that kind of background of strong women and I feel as strong, inspired by some of that there's also dna in child care, implicit if someone's got nine children, absolutely of course there is yeah, totally.

Susan McGhee:

And then the those that came after. I guess I get better. Give him a mention. My husband, who is always supportive of the crazy ideas that I come up with, and we'll put up with the, the oh, but what if I did this? And the wall, and the walks with the dogs where I go oh, whoa, hold on. And and all of those things and all the crazy challenges I throw at life. But my daughters, who again are three strong women, grown up now but challenged my thinking and forced me to be a better person, better version of myself, the best I can be, and I think you learn so much from your own children. They hold you to a really high standard and I think they continue to shape me every interaction. And there's a grandson in the mix.

Chris Grimes:

now as well. There is a grandson At last. A boy is born to the empire of women, absolutely.

Susan McGhee:

Harris, who is two and is an absolute delight to her. Yeah, we're all besotted with him.

Chris Grimes:

And I was delighted in what he calls you. So just tell us that quick story.

Susan McGhee:

I'm his gaggy, I guess because he couldn't say granny at first and it was such a nice way to say it and it stuck and I love being gaggy. If anybody else had called me gaggy I'd have been hugely insulting. But how dare you? This characterful, delightful wee boy calling me gaggy is wonderful. And then I move on from all that kind of joyful stuff and probably the next thing in my four things that shape me, I would say, and probably the next thing in my four things that shape me, I would say, is loss, which maybe isn't quite as cheerful. My younger brother died young from bowel cancer. My sister-in-law, my husband's sister, also passed from cancer and a cousin so my brother Ian, sister-in-law Marion and cousin Gary. So I guess that loss that makes you reflect and think, oh, my goodness, life's there for the living, grab every minute of it. And I guess that's some of the drive and the energy and the inability to just sit still and do nothing.

Chris Grimes:

There's a pop idea.

Susan McGhee:

Oh yeah, definitely I'll sleep when I'm dead. Attitude and I want to be the old deer that goes skidding into the grave at the last minute sort of thing, still partying. I think life's just too short. So that's a really shaping and defining aspect of life, I think, for me.

Chris Grimes:

And that's why Gaggy's credited you this very morning, I think, with look, Gaggy, looks like a rainbow A rainbow today?

Susan McGhee:

Yeah, absolutely.

Susan McGhee:

So, yeah, and then the third one I've got. I don't know if I'm going a bit too deep and meaningful on some of all of this, but anyway, not to worry, I have a Port Weinstein birthmark on my face with a visible difference, and I was lucky. I grew up in a lovely village in Fife and never really had any issues, but I think it made me develop a resilience. I suppose Anything that's different as you're a child growing up, I suppose does that but probably for a long time I kind of tried to blend in a bit too much because of that and I don't anymore, as you can see I probably kind of wanted to shrink into the background a wee bit, I would say. But I absolutely don't now and I put myself out there and wear bright colors and all the rest of it and sod it. Basically, and some of that has come from the next thing, which was the fourth thing on my list of the four things that shaped me, and this is a kind of more recent one.

Susan McGhee:

My eldest daughter has epilepsy and had a horrible seizure at the top of the stairs, came right downstairs, managed to rupture her spleen and was very seriously ill in hospital. Was really lucky they managed to um repair her whatever you want to describe it and she survived that and is super healthy and is the mum of my gorgeous grandson her and her partner and have their lovely house and their dog and great life. But that said, oh my god, you've got a second chance. Don't don't be hanging back, just absolutely go out there, go for it. That's when I changed career from working in commercial side of child care to do something different. It's when I got my mid blonde shoulder length hair chopped off and bleached, white and pink put in it and all of those things and thought do you know what? You just have to go for it and absolutely live it. The worst thing nearly happened, but it didn't. So let's make the most of this and enjoy life.

Chris Grimes:

Profound and lovely seismic shapeages. Thank you, and now three things that inspire you. Okay super.

Susan McGhee:

So, coming back to flexible childcare services, I am in awe of the amount of work they do and how committed they are to helping their families that they work with. Most went into this job to work with children, but the job has increasingly become a whole family support type role, so they've taken on a whole lot of additional knowledge and responsibility around that. Traditionally, childcare is not particularly well paid, but our team are absolutely giving it their all every day, and some of the experiences they plan for the children and then the subtle gentle wraparound, nurturing support that they offer to families it just it so motivates me and inspires me, and that's the kind of thing when we've had issues around the long-term sustainability of the organisation over that first five years. We employ nearly 200 people and they are so, so good at what they do. Yeah, I can't let this organisation fail and let those people down. So they drive me to keep this going and actually to campaign so that funding goes up and we can pay people better for the job that they do.

Chris Grimes:

This has reminded me of that moment when I perceived you as being in a valley like a banshee going no, because there was a sort of existential threat at one point. Wasn't there to the funding?

Susan McGhee:

There absolutely was. Yes, we had a big funding gap and our board were struggling with how we could continue to operate the service with a funding gap that we had, and I was very determined that we would continue to operate the organisation. That team deserve every bit of that. We have to keep that going. And when I talk about them and there's nearly 200 of the team there's a thousand families as well.

Susan McGhee:

I was going to say that was an obvious ripple effect, so the impact would have been a huge ripple effect if it had gone down, but the impact if we can keep it going and we can do more of this for more families. That's when we start to eat into that 25% poverty in Scotland and then we start exploring, having conversations and moving south of the border into England, moving UK-wide. I was going to say there should be a beyond.

Chris Grimes:

UK dissemination of the extraordinary model you've struck upon.

Susan McGhee:

Absolutely, and we are speaking with some local authorities in England already about that and have a small amount of start-up grant funding to be starting to move south of the border.

Chris Grimes:

And as global head of yourself. Is there any internationalisation ambition?

Susan McGhee:

I definitely think there are opportunities. The childcare model hasn't changed for years. When my own children and my eldest isn't that far off 30, although she won't be happy with me saying that went to nursery it was the same model. It was the eight to six days and all of those things. So it's not changed in all that time. Yet the world of work has changed and the amount of poverty people are facing and the cost of living crisis. There's so many things that have changed and that's not just a Scotland or a UK problem. That is happening worldwide. We have already had some conversations beyond the UK just to share our learning and practice and how we do things with other organizations. But why not? This is a model that changes lives, so why and it doesn't have to be us, they're delivering it everywhere.

Chris Grimes:

Other organizations can take the model yes not being protective of it and holding it and in in terms of moving in political circles as well. I remember reading, in researching you before today, a blog post where, if I were first minister for the day, I mean you are a force to be reckoned with and that's a total compliment, I think.

Susan McGhee:

I mean, it wasn't me, it was some of our team. The day we were in parliament for our parliamentary reception, they had a little tour with one of the MSPs and I'm not quite sure they were supposed to sit in the seats that they sat in in the main chamber. What's the P? Sorry, it's the member of Scottish parliament, so it's the MP. So gave them a tour around and they did choose to sit in seats that I'm not sure they were allowed. But anyway, not to worry, they did and we got photos. So the photos just inspired that thought of well, hold on, what would we do? You sat in the seat, what would you do? Write something.

Susan McGhee:

So our head of quality assurance, leslie, and some of our managers spent some time having a wee thought about what they would do around that and it was about funding and about flexibility, but a really lovely idea about.

Susan McGhee:

In Scotland we have the baby box, so when a new baby arrives, every family gets a box and it comes with baby clothes and some bath thermometer.

Susan McGhee:

It comes with lots of things that are needed for a new baby and the team were suggesting an outdoor box because not all children have the coats and the wellies and the puddle suits and the things that they need to get outdoors, and actually could that be a policy thing that would make a change in the lives of children.

Susan McGhee:

So so they had some fantastic ideas and I guess that goes back to that. What inspires you, this team are so, so good and we are so lucky to have them. I'm just infinitely grateful for the work that they do, and I'm the face of the organisation very often, but I'm not the one that's putting in the grind in the baby room or planning activities and doing risk assessments so that they can take young people with complex additional needs out on the bus to go to the beach for the day, and all of those things that there's so much good stuff happening. I mean, how could you not be inspired when you're surrounded by our future citizens, all these little people that are going to change the world for us, and a team that do great things?

Chris Grimes:

for them Wonderful stuff. So we're still in the canopy of the tree talking about inspiration.

Susan McGhee:

So some of the other things I guess are some of the other social entrepreneurs that I get to work alongside and learn through various cohorts and portfolios. So at the moment there's the Scotland's Changemakers programme with the Hunter Foundation. On Monday I'm going to Catalyst for Impact. It's another philanthropy backed fund, a cohort there, with some of the other social entrepreneurs and businesses that are involved in that. So you sit with some of these people and you think, well, I'm not the only one. This person's trying to change the world too. And this person's trying to change the world and and it's not all in the same sector some of it's around football and street soccer and the work that David Duke does, or flexibility works. It's about flexible working and the change that can make. And centre stage and Fiona from Centre Stage took on I think it's the biggest asset transfer of a building, a whole old school, and has created around the arts a real place of connection. So there's all these incredible people that are running services that absolutely inspire and they're so generous with their knowledge and expertise and just happy to support each other. And quite an incredible group of people to be privileged to know and to work alongside and share thoughts and ideas and I did have the third one I'd written I probably touched on some of when I was talking about the team, but it's actually the children and families who who use our services, many of whom are facing multiple challenges.

Susan McGhee:

They might be coming back to employment after multi-generational unemployment in a family. They may be. We have new Scots that have come into the country looking for a better life. We have families that are working all the hours they can possibly work, but the pay and the sector they work in is so low that they are struggling to make ends meet.

Susan McGhee:

And I see how hard some of the parents are working and how driven they are to give their children the absolutely best possible life.

Susan McGhee:

You see the mum who hasn't got a winter coat because the money's been spent on the children's clothes and things like that. And just that little bit of headroom by being able to use child care flexibly and spend less on it, work more because you can flex your work and your hours to match makes a huge difference. And I just, and then I think, imagine if they had that parent-friendly, flexible working and flexible child care, if we could get an employer to jump on board and do some a test of change something around that. What a difference it can make. It can be absolutely life changing for people. So that, and children because I've probably already said you can never fail to be inspired by children, the ones that they'll pick up the most a slug and they'll come and show you great excitement and you've got to be excited and they're just full of wonder and excitement and interest in the world and it makes us realise that we should be too.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. Yeah, now we're talking about a clutch of nuts again squirrels. So this is now borrow from the film up. What are the two monsters of distraction or shiny object syndromes that you have in your life? What are your two squirrels? And I could? I could even throw a squirrel at you. Are you ready to receive the squirrels?

Susan McGhee:

Go, go, go, go go. Oh, and I caught it too. So what are your two squirrels? I like that. You have nice red squirrels. Where I live in Scotland we have red squirrels and they're just lovely. They're very cute, much smaller than their big grey squirrel cousins. I guess the two things that never fail to grab my attention is my gorgeous grandson Harris. I would drop pretty much everything to go and see him, would absolutely grab my attention at any time. And then the other thing, coming back into more work and social justice world and all of that is injustice. I hate to see injustice and people being treated unfairly and or anything like that is just. There's too much of it in the world and if we were all just a bit kinder to each other, just I think that's your absolute superpower, that you're, you're be kind, addressing injustice yeah, and in fact I think the badge on my jacket today says treat people with kindness.

Susan McGhee:

And you know what, if people just did that, yeah, and just had a bit of gave people a bit of time and a bit of slack and support, then life would be so much easier for everybody. I told you a story when I arrived earlier today about I got on the plane this morning and I had booked a window seat because I like looking out the window, but there was a gentleman in my window seat and I thought do I be that person? Do I say excuse me, mate, that's my seat. Do I have to be that person that causes a scene on a plane? No, you really don't Just sit down. It's an hour's flight, be nice.

Chris Grimes:

The great lesson we know is be discerning in life with which battles are worth fighting. Not all of them are.

Susan McGhee:

No, they are absolutely not. And karma plays a role, doesn't it as well?

Chris Grimes:

If you're nice to people, things, come back and work for you Reminds me of my favourite word in the whole world reciprocity. What you give out, you will get back. You absolutely do. Yeah, totally Great squirrels. I love the fact you've got your grandson as one of your squirrels. That's great. And then now, finally, we're on to the one, as we finish shaking your tree, which is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

Susan McGhee:

This is a funny one because I guess I live my life quite publicly. I share a lot on social media, but I guess I suppose one of the character traits and maybe people will say they know it about me anyway, I would say and it might be a Scottish word, I'm not sure I would thrawnrawn, kind of stubborn and determined and don't like to be predictable. And and all of those say the word again Thrawn, thrawn, t-h-r-a-w-n. I think it is Thrawn. So I hate to be predictable, I hate anybody to think that's she's the kind of person that would do that. Or when I say I'm going to do something, they say, nah, you're not going to do that kind of thing. So the year I turned 50, I did a mile of burpees, a travelling mile of burpees. I did the Murph Challenge.

Chris Grimes:

That doesn't mean you burp every pace.

Susan McGhee:

No, no, a burpee that exercise the most horrible thing ever oh yes, sorry, a travelling mile of burpees, so that was pretty interesting.

Chris Grimes:

Children would interpret that differently.

Susan McGhee:

Oh, we're going to do a mile of burpees. No, no, no, no. I did the murph challenge that year as well, all those and running and all the things involved in that, and now I am doing aerial fitness.

Chris Grimes:

So you, so you will find me, yes, hanging upside down from a hoop or swirling about on a piece of silk hanging from your ceiling, but I'm a hoop I'm swirling about and, if I may say, I didn't know you had a strawberry birthmark until you told us that piece of silk hanging from the ceiling From a hoop and swirling about. Swirling about Love that. And if I may say, I didn't know you had a strawberry birthmark until you told us that was another cool fact. Oh, there you go. Yeah, wonderful, can you just say swirling about on a hoop again.

Susan McGhee:

Well, I swirl on the silk. I hang from the hoop and swirl on the silk. I'm very happy.

Chris Grimes:

We got you to say that again so we have shaken your tree, hurrah.

Chris Grimes:

And at this point I'd just like to say to credit dave stewart, who we both know and love, from fresh air leadership company. I got this exercise from dave stewart and I'm going to be forever grateful for him because it's the epicentric shaking the tree of the exercise. So live on air. Thank you, dave stewart. I hope you're watching. Thank you, dave. Thank you, dave. Okay, we have shaken your tree, hurrah. Now we stay in the clearing, which is your sunny room. It is, it is. And whereabouts do we live? Is Aberdeenshire, is that right?

Susan McGhee:

No, no, no, no, no. I am Pow Mill. It's a small village near Dollar in central Scotland.

Chris Grimes:

Lovely. So now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold. Okay, so when you're at Purpose and in flow.

Susan McGhee:

Susan McGee, ceo of the Pied Piperess of Scotland, of Alexable Child Care Services Scotland. What are you absolutely happiest doing?

Susan McGhee:

in what you're here to reveal to the world. Can I be really sad and say working? Yeah, I absolutely do get my dopamine hit from working. I find it really difficult to take holidays from work unless I've got something planned. I find it difficult to take time off because I love it really difficult to take holidays from work unless I've got something planned. I find it difficult to take time off because I love it. It's such a privileged role to be in to be able to create these services, to create systems, to have a board that are supportive, despite the challenges we've faced and we've come through those together to be able to say, ok, we're going to grow this and we're going to do this service and we're going to add that on, and that's going to make a difference for these families and the local authorities who work with us, who enter into partnership contracts. To enable us to do that work, we've designed a piece of software to help other people be more flexible and to manage services. There's never two days the same. I do love work.

Chris Grimes:

I absolutely love it and you're really leaning in and making a difference. It's not as mundane as just I like to work. You're actually leaning in to make a real societal difference, which is important.

Susan McGhee:

And that's the aim of it. Yeah, it's not just about being just another child care provider. I've done that. I've worked in this sector for all of my career. Well, I had a very brief sojourn. I left school and went to work with a makeup company kind of an out-of-nappies-and-into-lipstick kind of girl and like makeup. So I did have a very brief sojourn there and thought, no, no, I need to go and work with children. This is what I want to do in my life open another nursery.

Susan McGhee:

But it's not about that. It's about looking for the gaps and seeing where families are not getting the services that they need to to to survive really, but not just to survive. We want these families to flourish and thrive. So it's about finding the gaps, the areas that commercial operators maybe wouldn't be interested in operating in, and the areas I'm looking at now are areas that are high on the index of multiple deprivation, where we know there's a challenge and we know families are struggling, and we get the opportunity and the great privilege of being able to go in and create a service in those areas, to work with the local community and say what do you need to provide the? The nursery or the school-age child care or the additional support needs work, but also to say what kind of wraparound services do you need in this area?

Susan McGhee:

So in one of our nurseries in Aberdeen the health visitor is based in the nursery rather than in the GP surgery and has the whole cohort of the children at the service on her caseload and that works beautifully. They get help with speech and language much quicker, they get referrals on to other agencies much quicker and really great relationships between parents and the health visitor. So we don't want to duplicate. If it's a community centre that's doing the school uniform provision, things like that, we wouldn't do that. We would just sign post parents to them.

Susan McGhee:

If there's not, we say, well, okay, we work with agencies to have food larder access in our services so that parents, if they are struggling and things are tight that week, there's always food available that they can take. It's always placed near the entrance so that it's subtle. They don't need to walk past the office or ask somebody to access it. They can do that with dignity. So it's more more than just child care. It's a different model of child care at the core of a service that has wraparound community support and you mentioned a really lovely expression families to flourish.

Chris Grimes:

Is that the badge or the banner under which this initiative all takes place, or is that something you've just said spontaneously?

Susan McGhee:

no, no, no. Um. Flourish, I guess, is the word that's used in the tackling child poverty report in scotland around enabling families to flourish. Um, and there is, without being too critical, because the policies are good and the the 1140 funded nursery hours, um, that parents get, they get their, their funded places and that's great and it works for a large proportion of the families. It doesn't work for every family and that's where you've got that quarter of families in the country that are still struggling and it's how can every family flourish?

Susan McGhee:

We don't want people to just get by. We want people to be happy and healthy and have enough money and it's all well and good to say and we'll put in place these policies to reduce the attainment gap and to improve early education. But but if a child's been up all night because mum and dad have been arguing about how they're going to pay the electric, because it's due to be paid tomorrow and it's going to be cut off if they don't top up their card and what they're going to have for breakfast and there's no food, a child's not coming to our door in the morning ready to learn if they've been up all night in a stressful situation and they've had no breakfast in the morning. It's about education and early learning, but it's wrapped in nurture.

Chris Grimes:

It's a holistic model about caring for people and knowing that that learning takes place naturally through the, the opportunities that are provided within the centre and I believe I heard the story from you about something as simple and as basic as a coat rail on the way out where parents. Can you just tell us a bit about that?

Susan McGhee:

story Again. It's a really simple idea, but it's about making things, reducing the number of doors families have to knock on to get help. So if your wee one's out growing their winter coat and it's freezing and they've not got a coat to put on to go to school, we have a simple rail in services that we say take what you need, give what you can. So if you need a bigger size coat and there's one there, take it. If you've got one to bring in and hang up there, bring it and hang it up. If you've not, it doesn't matter. And actually that's not just about you can't afford another jacket for your child. That's about the environment and the circular economy. And why would we buy something? The child wears it for a few months and then toss it out? I suppose it's going back years and years when things were handed down through families and it's almost artificially recreating that hand me down. So yeah, exactly, and there's just, there's less waste.

Chris Grimes:

When I heard you tell that story, my daughter, lily, is a primary school teacher and I came back flushed with the beauty of that and I I think and hope that they're going to be instilling that within it's such a simple basic common sense idea, yeah, and well, we did another one around halloween time, where parents are asked to get outfits for children going to school and you know, oh, they can't afford to do that.

Susan McGhee:

So at Halloween we had again just an outfit exchange so that families were just able to come to the rail with their child, pick something and they've got a Halloween outfit. And it's so, so simple. But it's just about thinking what can we do to make things easier and to help families? Does it help if you're already tight for cash and school says you've got to dress up for Halloween, you've got to dress up for World Book Day, we've got a trip to such and such and you've got to pay a £5 donation to that and you've got? The cost of the school day is a huge challenge for people. So we do what we can to reduce that.

Chris Grimes:

So families flourishing and a currency of respect in there as well.

Susan McGhee:

Absolutely Everybody deserves dignity and respect, everybody.

Chris Grimes:

Boomtastic. Ok, I'm going to award you with a cake now. Hurrah, this is the last section, so here we go, a cake for you.

Chris Grimes:

So, first of all, susan mcgee, do you like a cake at all? I do like cake, I like lots of cake. Yeah, and you had a morello cherry blondie again this morning. Have you snaffled that already? I have. Yes, remember I did something. I had the great pleasure. I didn't know I was going to even do this. But call, call you a Morello cherry blotting. And here she is, if you're looking at the resplendentness of this. So now this is where you're going to put a cherry on the cake. So what is your favourite cake first?

Susan McGhee:

of all. So we had a delicious cake at Easter weekend. I had everybody at my house on Easter Sunday and my daughters are Rebecca, louise and Olivia. So Louise is the middle one and lives in Sheffield with her partner, aaron, and they liked Cook, so they made us a beautiful pistachio and raspberry and pear cake and, oh my goodness, it was gorgeous, really really nice. So I like pretty much any cake, but right now that's the top of my cake list.

Chris Grimes:

Say the flavours again, just so we can all go nom, nom, nom nom. So they were pistachio, raspberry and pear. Get in. Okay, now you get to put a cherry on your raspberry, pistachio and pear cake by telling me now what's a favourite inspirational quote that's always given you, sucker Susan McGee and pulled you towards your future Okie doke.

Susan McGhee:

So I guess that kind of do the right thing even when nobody's watching sort of sits well with me. And I know I make life harder for our team at work sometimes because of that, because sometimes when you're faced with a problem there's a quick solution and there's the right solution and the right solution is going to be harder, but ultimately it's the right thing to do and that's the route I want to go every single time. And I guess that comes back again to my not challenging that plonker that took my seat on the first day of this morning because to do the right thing was the right thing, not to disturb everybody and cause chaos. So in every aspect of life and I don't get it right all the time and we as an organisation don't get it right all the time, but I think that's something to hold yourself to, to try and do the right thing- Just letting a bit of pause.

Chris Grimes:

Hang there, lovely. With the gift of hindsight, what notes, help or advice might you proffer to a younger version of susan mckee? Now you've come this far, care less what other people think?

Susan McGhee:

absolutely, do you know what? They're not even watching you half the time. They're not interested, are they? They're away looking at themselves and admiring how great they look in their selfies and all the rest of it.

Chris Grimes:

So they're really not. Have you heard the adage that if you only knew how little the other person was actually thinking about you, you'd be quite disappointed? Yes, dashes us all on the rock.

Susan McGhee:

I know, but it's true, isn't it? Really just care less what other people think, and be yourself, be yourself, because everyone else is. Be yourself exactly, enjoy being you. Although I had that conversation with somebody another nursery manager in Liverpool, I think, actually quite some years ago about what that piece of advice, and she said she'd asked that question of her partner's granny and the granny's answer was I should have flattened more grass. So I'm not giving you that answer, but I care less what other people we'll just let that hang out.

Chris Grimes:

I should have flattened more grass. That's what she said, and we don't actually know what she means. But I well, I think we've got a good idea. Sorry, now we do. I think I've now got with the programme. So Granny should have flattened more grass. We'll just leave that there. I'll do another and, and now we're ramping up to Shakespeare in a moment To talk about legacy and how it looks like to be remembered. But just before we get there, this is the Don't Like it, abba. Mr man Ring, pass the golden baton, please. So may I invite you, susan McGee, to pass the golden baton along to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going to somebody else in your network that you know would really enjoy benefit, or just like being given a damn good. Listening to.

Susan McGhee:

It is way cool again, that's quite hard because I know loads and loads of people um that have wonderful, wonderful stories to tell. There is a lady who I think is london-based and you may know, laura henry elaine writes the jojo and grangan books no, does some stuff for bb, bbc Children's stuff now, I think and has a childcare, early education background. Laura would be super, just say her name one more time. Laura Henry-Elaine.

Chris Grimes:

Henry-Elaine, a majestic golden baton pass. Cool, thank you. And now, inspired by Shakespeare, all the world to stage and all the bedded women merely players. Now we're going to talk about B, borrowing from the Seven Ages of man Strait Woman Speech. When all is said and done, susan McGee, ceo, pied Piperess of Scotland, flexible Childcare Services, scotland, how would you most like to be remembered?

Susan McGhee:

Well, I guess bold enough to want to change the world and brave enough to challenge the nonsense, because some of the rules and laws we have are just made to be broken, aren't they? I mean the ones that are about making sure you don't hurt anybody and that you're fair and things then? Yeah, okay, that's fine, but there's too much nonsense out there. So challenge the nonsense where you see it. So bold, brave, innovative enough to come up with ideas and solutions to make those changes. So bold, brave, innovative and colourful, with fabulous hair.

Chris Grimes:

So boomtastic. I think that legacy is already in the bag.

Susan McGhee:

That's phenomenal. I hope so.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful. So now we've got a very exciting moment, which is called Show Us your QR Code, please, and Jo, our lovely technician in the background, is now going to show a couple of qr codes. So first of all we want to find out about. For those that can't scan the qr code, talk us through the website url of flexible child care services scotland, please.

Chris Grimes:

First, of all okay, so it's just wwwfcssorguk and in the comedian in me, when I was researching I was spelling it really carefully. I got one C too many and then it nearly became FF. It's not that, so just give us the acronym once again.

Susan McGhee:

So it's fcssorguk Flexible Child Care Services of Scotland Boom.

Chris Grimes:

As this has been your moment in the sunshine in the Good Listening To show Susan McGee, and sincerely thank you for coming all the way from Scotland to be appearing in the Future Leap Studios with me in the show today, which I'm very grateful for, and you're very, very welcome, as I'm sure you're feeling. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

Susan McGhee:

I think we've covered a lot. If anybody's listening and wants to talk about flexible childcare, I am always, always, always happy to talk to anybody about that, so please do connect. I am on socials fairly regularly, so people will be able to find me on there.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful and thank you for that and I'm sure they will get in touch with Susan McGee. If you'd like a conversation about guesting in the Good Listening To Show 2, then please get in touch. It's thegoodlisteningtoshowcom. A number of series strands. This has been a hybrid of leadership reflections and also a brand strand founder story and very, very excitingly, there's a new cut and thrust which has been there all along in the mountainscape of the good listening to show, which is called legacylifereflectionscom, and without any morbid intention, that's a way of using this unique storytelling structure to capture either your story or the story of somebody precious to you, near, dear or close to you. Again without any morbid intention, but for posterity, lest we forget before it's too late, using the unique storytelling structure of this show. So I've been chris grimes, but, uh, very, very majestically and importantly an ambassador for scotland and really helping the community and leaning in this has been susan mcgee. Is there anything else else you'd like to say?

Susan McGhee:

other than thank you for having me. It has been a pleasure. It's been an absolute joy to spend time talking about life, work, alchemy and golden cake.

Chris Grimes:

Thank you for coming and thank you for watching all across the interweb as well. Thank you very much indeed, and let's get you some lunchinium before you head back up to Scotland. Sounds super, and good night, thank you, bye. You've been listening to the Good Listening To Show with me, chris Grimes, and good night, thank you, bye. Site, and one of these series, strands, is called brand strand founder stories for business owners like you to be able to tell your company story, talk about your purpose and amplify your brand together. We get into the who, the what, the how, the why you do what you do and then, crucially, we find out exactly where we can come and find you, to work with you and to book your services. Tune in next week for more stories from the clearing and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.