The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Leadership Reflections: The 'Alchemy of Leadership' with Antonia Wade, Chief Marketing Officer at PwC. Finding Balance in a Global Role with a Thriving Family and a Dog Called Biscuit!

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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What shapes a Global Marketing Leader's perspective? For Antonia Wade, PwC's Global Chief Marketing Officer and Marketing Week's Marketeer of the Year, Leadership Excellence stems from finding balance between professional ambition and personal fulfillment.

Sitting in her study – her physical "Clearing" amid family life with two teenagers, a husband, and a dog named Biscuit – Antonia reflects on the formative experiences that built her leadership philosophy. Her journey from Architecture student to being Global Head of Marketing at PwC wasn't straightforward, but architectural thinking gave her the perfect foundation: balancing creativity with pragmatism while solving complex problems.

The conversation explores how Antonia manages a Worldwide Team across time-zones without sacrificing her own boundaries. "If I'm emailing at the weekend, even if I don't intend for people to respond, they feel like they have to," she explains, highlighting how leadership behaviors unconsciously shape team culture. This awareness permeates her approach – protecting weekends, making time for cooking (her delightful "squirrel" distraction), and prioritizing family.

At the heart of Antonia's Leadership perspective is a powerful guiding principle: "You are where you are today because of the decisions you made 5  years ago." This insight helps her evaluate current choices with future impact in mind while giving her team a framework for intentional career development. She complements this with advice from a former mentor: focus on "the things that only you can do" rather than trying to be everything to everyone.

Beyond her professional insights, we discover Antonia's near-win in the Wildlife Photographer of the Year Award, her love of reading a novel weekly, and how she wrote her book "Transforming the B2B Buyer Journey" during gardening leave and airport layovers. Her parting advice embodies her leadership philosophy: "Be curious but also be bold and ambitious. You might as well push for the things you want – you certainly don't get what you want if you don't ask for it."

Antonia Wade, Global Chief Marketing Officer at PwC and Marketing Week's Marketeer of the Year, shares her leadership journey and personal philosophy for maintaining balance in a demanding global role.

• Finding your "clearing" - both physical and mental spaces for reflection and rejuvenation
• How studying architecture created a foundation for balancing creativity and pragmatism in marketing
• The importance of setting boundaries with work communications to model healthy behavior for your team
• Making decisions today with awareness of their impact on your life five years from now
• Focusing on "what only you can do" rather than trying to be everything to everyone
• Finding inspiration through global travel,

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Chris Grimes:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the Clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin.

Chris Grimes:

So welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to a very halcyon day's day in the clearing of the Good Listening To Show. I'm Chris Grimes and this is Antonia Wade, who is the Global Chief Marketing Officer at PwC, and Antonia was passed the golden baton to be in the Good Listening To show by Timothy Tim Hughes, who is part of DLA Ignite and a social selling expert, and I was absolutely thrilled when he passed you the golden baton, antonia to be here. And this is a special Leadership Reflections episode of the show, where I invite my guests to share their leadership lessons learned along their way, and who better to come into the clearing than Antonia Wade? So good morning to you. How's morale? What's your story of the day, antonia Wade?

Antonia Wade:

Well, good morning, and thank you for having me, chris. It's morale. What's your story of the day, antonia Wade? Well, good morning, and thank you for having me, chris. It's great to be here in the clearing. Well, it's a cold and windy Friday in London, and so I guess in part happy that we're close to the weekend, but slightly wishing that this internal feeling winter was over. I have to say that usually I'm lucky enough to do trips to warm and foreign climes, but for various reasons, I haven't been travelling that much recently, so it does feel like I'm very definitely ready for the winter to be over and for spring to start to emerge.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, spring has sprung and I've noticed there are seagulls on the chimney pots nearby, so the chaos in Bristol is all about to kick off again. So just a blow bit of very, very happy seasoned smoke at you. Sorry, I say seasoned because you are a seasoned CMO. You are the Global Chief Marketing Officer at PwC and what's intriguing about you is you're used to operating in complex, global matrixed organizations and, if I may, I'm going to call you the maitre d' of the maitre c' of all things marketing at PwC, a bit like I've written a poem for you. Very nice, love it, hommage to you. You're also Marketing Week's Marketeer of the Year in 2024.

Chris Grimes:

And what Leadership Reflections is all about? Using the curated structure of this show is? It also helps business leaders very much like yourself to tell a warmer, more authentic, human and connecting story, and I'm really privileged to be able to curate you through the structure and the journey of the show. So there's going to be a clearing a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 5-4-3-2-1. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, as we go through. Go where you like, how you like, when you like, as deep as you like into all things. Reflections on leadership as we go through. So, antonio Wade, first of all, then, where is what is a clearing for you in your doubtless incredibly hectic life in being the global head of marketing at PwC? Where do you go to get clutter-free, inspirational and able to think, your clearing being your serious happy place?

Antonia Wade:

Well, I guess, at a physical level, actually at this place here, the study that I have, I have two children and a dog and a husband, and so it's somewhat chaotic outside the study, but this is kind of the place where it's kind of mine and I keep it how I want to keep it and this is the place where I go to do my thinking, my work, as I wrote my book. I wrote a lot of it here, but I guess psychologically there's a beach that I went to very many years ago in India and I think that from a kind of psychological perspective, that's where I would go to kind of really think deeply about what I'm doing, why I'm doing it. I think sometimes it helps to not just have a physical place but to also have a kind of mental place that you sort of go and kind of like relive where you were and what you were thinking at the time. So I think a story of two parts.

Chris Grimes:

I love that and, borrowing from the at what three words, just, I'm going to arrive with a tree, rather comically, within your clearing shortly. A bit waiting for Godot-esque, a bit deliberately existential because of my acting background, but using the what three words whereabouts in India is the beach we're talking about? Oh right, oh, background, but using the what three words whereabouts in india is the beach we're talking about? Oh right, oh gosh, it's uh right down in the south, uh of kerala, lovely, and indeed we've got a choice we can either come into your sort of uh woman cave within your own home, uh, sanctuary, sanctuary, or we can go to the indian beach. So where would you prefer that I now arrive comically with a tree?

Antonia Wade:

well, I think. Probably it feels a bit more appropriate to do it in a beach, not least because if you arrive with a tree in my study, you might break the roof of my house, which would cause me more stress than calm.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, and particularly as you've already got a dog, two kids and a husband. Me coming in with a sort of weird shrubbery would indeed be strange. So let of weird shrubbery would indeed be strange. So let's go to the beach in carola, you said, didn't you in carola? Carola, yeah, lovely, um, so uh, this is where you've been kind enough to have thought about the construct of five, four, three, two, one. We've had five minutes, antonio wade, global chief marketing officer at pwc, to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention and borrow from the film up. That's a bit. Oh, squirrels, that's where the random squirrels are going to come in. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us it's not a memory test. So over to you to curate us through the shaking of the canopy of your tree, as you see fit. Four things have that have shaped you.

Antonia Wade:

First of all, Well, I mean, I think, inevitably your parents shape you, don't they? And I was very lucky. I had extremely supportive parents who were very much on my side. I don't think they ever read a school report or took parent-teacher meetings particularly seriously, and they're kind of, I guess, unwavering confidence that I would fulfill my potential and be the best person that I could be, I think is something that inevitably shapes you, and so I think I was very lucky, not just in terms of what they did for me in my early life, but also great role models now that I'm a parent myself. So I'd say that's the first thing that shaped me.

Chris Grimes:

And their strategy delicious laissez-faireness. I love that they never read a school report, but knew all along that you'd realise your full potential. How extraordinary. And how does that inform your own parenting with your two kids now?

Antonia Wade:

well, I have to admit, I do actually, uh, read the reports. Yes, um, I think that there's something about just um, feeling confident that your kids will be okay, uh, and allowing them to be the people that they want to be. And I don't know, you'll probably have to ask them. I'm sure all of us to some extent end up on a somewhat of a psychiatrist couch at 14, blaming our parents for things, but I hope I've done a reasonable job.

Antonia Wade:

I think that the second thing that shaped me I studied architecture at university and even in my A-levels I did sciences and arts, and I think that studying architecture is a really wonderful kind of mixture of creativity and pragmatism and certainly, as I think about my career in marketing, somebody once said to me it's a bit odd to go from architecture to marketing, but I actually think there's a lot of similarities. Somebody once said to me it's a bit odd to go from architecture to marketing, but I actually think there's a lot of similarities because you have to balance the kind of creativity with the pragmatism and practicality of making money and running big teams and kind of running an operation. So I think that that's been something that's been pretty formative and shaped me.

Chris Grimes:

That's definitely a part of it. It's a humongously complex brief that you do have as a head of marketing. It's a humongously complex brief that you do have as head of marketing. And also I know that before PwC you were at Capita Accenture, thomson Reuters running there, you know, laughing in the face of budgets of billions, as you are responsible for all the sort of messaging and the marketing concerned with that.

Antonia Wade:

I wish it was billions. It's not quite that, but certainly responsible for making billions of dollars of revenue. So, yeah, it's um, I think it's uh. I've been lucky in my career to have found really great environments where there's lots of complicated problems to solve. I enjoy, as you said in the introduction, working in, uh, these matrixed environments, um, because it means that the problems you're solving are kind of compounded because you've got an interesting and intriguing kind of political environment to solve the problems in. So, um, you know, I think that that probably comes to the third thing that shaped me I I spent about three years, maybe slightly longer, in the treasury in my early career, um, and it was in the kind of golden days of, uh, gordon brown in the treasury in my early career, and it was in the kind of golden days of Gordon Brown in the treasury in the Blair period.

Antonia Wade:

I felt like I learned a huge amount, even though I kind of obviously haven't carried on in a political career. But I feel like I learned a lot about how to navigate political systems, how to think about problems that are kind of macro and a micro level, and I would definitely say, you know, if people are wondering about what to do with their careers. Having a stint in public service is a really interesting and, I think, quite important thing to do, so I'm very glad that I did it. I learned a lot from it and I think certainly it's helped me to really think quite a lot about how to operate in a complicated environment.

Chris Grimes:

And that was your induction to the world of multi matrices was actually a governmental position.

Antonia Wade:

Yeah, I mean it's not matrixed in quite the same way as a big global corporate, but certainly trying to balance, you know, competing demands on kind of the public purse and how do you think about you know what you pursue from a policy perspective. I just think it gave me a very interesting perspective on the world and I'm glad I did it.

Chris Grimes:

Fantastic, lovely. These are wonderful shapeages so far. What's the shapeage number four?

Antonia Wade:

So I've always, as you can see behind me, what's the shapeage number four. So I've always, as you can see behind me, I've always been a huge reader. I read a novel a week at least, if not more, and I'm pretty eclectic in terms of my reading tastes, so I'll read anything kind of science fiction right through to kind of heavy prose and everything in between, and I think that having a broad base in terms of reading but also just, I think it helps to encourage your curiosity, I think it helps to inspire your imagination, um, I think that it kind of takes you away from yourself, uh, and allows you to have those kind of clearing moments, if you will, but within a book, um, I think it's really good for your mental health, um, and so escaping into books, it's been something that I've done since I could start reading, and you know that's been several decades. The moment, if I may ask oh?

Antonia Wade:

yeah, I'm reading the latest, uh, david nichols book and then I'm also reading there's a husband and wife couple called Nikki French who write kind of interesting sort of crime thrillers, and I'm reading the latest one of theirs as well.

Chris Grimes:

Wonderful stuff, great stuff. So that's four shapeages in the bag. Lovely, thank you. And now three things that inspire you, antonia.

Antonia Wade:

Yeah, so I talked about the fact that I studied architecture, but actually I also really enjoy art as well and I feel extremely inspired by looking at arts and visiting interesting buildings. I think that, you know, if you go and see a French medieval cathedral, it kind of lifts you out of yourself. Yeah, I think that it just creates a kind of link with the past. Um and again, a bit like what I was saying about reading, it kind of takes you out of yourself and and helps you to sort of remember that there's a, there's a bigger world out there and a broader perspective.

Chris Grimes:

So you have a delightful multi-faceted, clearing awareness. Actually I think I'm tuning into many, many ways of you finding a serious happy place in what you're up to in in a life that, on the face of it, you know, when you have a job title like yours, it sounds like how does that person sleep? Because, being global, you know being called global head of a bit like some corporates can call people, you know global head of creativity. Sometimes you think correctly, that's such a a sort of universe, wide scope. But what's really lovely is your, your a, your ability to find real tranquility in in pockets of time oh yeah, thank you.

Antonia Wade:

I think it's quite hard to be the best you can be on a kind of daily basis if you're not able to do that. Yes, um, and you know, any job, any big job anyway will ask you to work 25 hours a day. You know eight days a week, right, you're never going to get to the end of the inbox, you're never going to feel like you've finished and you know all emails answered, all tasks of the week done, and so if you can't carve out that space for yourself, I think that you can find yourself working so relentlessly at the exclusion of everything else. But actually I think that the quality of your leadership and the quality of your work product kind of diminishes as a result of that. So I work quite hard and I try really hard to make sure that I am pretty balanced, not just about myself, but also making sure that I am pretty balanced not just about you know myself, but also making sure that I spend time with my family, my friends, because that's kind of what's made me who I am.

Chris Grimes:

That's a very profound and insightful leadership reflection of itself. How big is your team that you are responsible for?

Antonia Wade:

Yes, I've got about 200 people around the world for, yes, I've got about 200 people around the world, but then we also work with a lot of agencies, so there's probably another few hundreds on that. And then there's a broader marketing community within PwC which is probably totals into the thousands. So it's a big team. It's a global team. People are everywhere, from Seattle to Singapore, and so, again, you know, making sure that you can be as good as you want to be and kind of working across those timeframes, I have to say it's very helpful living in the UK.

Antonia Wade:

I've been asked in previous jobs to move to Asia or move to the US, but I think, doing a global job, it's helpful to be in the middle of the time zone and I certainly, you know, whilst I can some days get up very early and some days, uh, stay up very late, um, my weekends are pretty sacrosanct, so I sometimes have to fly places on sunday. So, for example, this sunday I'm going to prague, um, because I've got a meeting that starts on monday morning there. But, in the main, like my weekends, I it'd be very rare for anyone who works for me to get an email from me at the weekends.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, you're reminding me of that lovely leadership quote leaders lead by example, whether they intend to or not, and I don't doubt that you're transmitting a really good example of remaining boundaried and clear about where you know a work-life balance really and how defined and important it needs to be.

Antonia Wade:

Yeah, I mean because if I'm emailing at the weekend, even if I don't intend for people to respond at the weekend, they feel like they have to right yes, so you have to just get to a certain stage of leadership where you have to, to your point, realize that you are setting an example, even if it's inadvertent. And if everyone knows that I'm on holiday and yet I'm still emailing 20 times a day, then I'm basically sending a signal that it's not okay to take a holiday and I think that that's really unreasonable. So I try really hard to be very disciplined about that.

Chris Grimes:

I have to say it's very inspirational and I think for many people watching that's the sort of leader and manager that you'd like, that appreciates that. You know the human desire to find boundary is really, really important.

Antonia Wade:

I think it's kind of interesting as well, isn't it? And I know in this we're talking a kind of more positive inspirations, but a bit like, you know, when you're a child and I don't know, you feel like you've been unfairly treated by your parents, and like when I're a child and I don't know, you feel like you've been unfairly treated by your parents and like when I'm a grownup, I'll never do that. And you know, there's we've all had points in our career where, you know, we've had bosses who we have felt to be unreasonable and you think, gosh, when I'm in that role, I will never do that. And I and I I uh, high empathy bosses that you know think it's not okay to email people at midnight on a sunday night or whatever it is. And I think that those experiences shape you as well. Right, because you say, actually, when I'm in that kind of position of power, I'm not going to do that. I think it's unreasonable.

Chris Grimes:

And then you have to kind of hold yourself to account for that yes and, if I may, you may not have had this feedback before it. It seems quite Zen-like what you're transmitting, which is really nice because it's got tranquility and it's got poise.

Antonia Wade:

I'm not sure my team would always agree with you.

Chris Grimes:

I'll interview one of them next and get the other side of the coin.

Chris Grimes:

Maybe you've got me on it like Friday morning is obviously my Zen morning, I have to say I watched a couple of films about you in researching you and I was really looking forward to the conversation because I thought gosh, he's really calm, which was. I wouldn't expect that if you just go for just job titles alone when it's such an important remit. I mean the title is very impressive to be global chief of something such a big one, of the planet's biggest global monoliths.

Antonia Wade:

Maybe that gets to the second thing that inspires me. I mean, I have done global jobs for quite some time and I am genuinely inspired by being able to go to different parts of the world and see how people think about things differently. You know, if you go to the Middle East or you go to Asia, you just get such a different perspective and I find that endlessly interesting and intriguing and inspirational. You do get the opportunity to meet people from PwC and our clients and, as I said, like just such different views on the world and I do find that inspiring because partly, uh, you know, there's a there's just something kind of intriguing about humanity, but also it just it's quite grounding and reminds you that you know the environment that you grow up in, in the context that you have really shaped.

Antonia Wade:

You are, um, and I think it's quite interesting to be sort of jolted out of that, and so I feel very lucky actually, and people often say to me oh, you know how do you deal with the travel? And I'm like I really genuinely enjoy it because I find our people inspiring, I find our clients inspiring and it's just even if I don't always agree, it's just interesting to get very different perspectives. So I think that's the second place of inspiration and that's probably why I've always done, uh, these big kind of global jobs, because I'm just sort of genuinely intrigued by why people think about things the way that they think about them. Um, and it's, and it is just interesting going and immersing yourself in a different place and understanding why people react to things very differently to how we do it in the UK.

Chris Grimes:

You've reminded me of my favourite job title of all, which I often offer people as a promotion when I'm facilitating in-country myself, which is we all need to aspire to just be global head of myself. You know, be global head of yourself, which allows you to do any role or remit because you know you're on your own path of authenticity oh, yeah, I mean, I think, um, there's definitely something about challenging yourself to continue to be interested in, curious.

Antonia Wade:

I mean, I think it can be very easy, particularly with a big job, to become very kind of focused on the task at hand, um, but I, as I said, about kind of reading and art, like, if you're not able to lift up out of that every now and again uh, I didn't keep the work becomes less good, uh, you become more boring person, um, and so you know, as I said, it's not always like you know, dancing to the airport and can't wait to get on the plane, but I do tend to, once I'm there, really immerse myself and take an interest in it and eat the local food and ask for recommendations.

Antonia Wade:

I try and always carve out a few hours to take a walk around the place and kind of understand it. So I think that, yeah, I definitely, definitely, and I do feel very lucky, being in a global role, that I am able to go to these interesting places and meet these interesting people, um, and I think if I didn't have that then I might find the job more of a chore, if you know what I mean there's a sort of stoicism and a sense of carpe diem inequality in what you're describing as well, and about being truly present to whatever opportunities in front of you yeah, exactly as I said, I think.

Antonia Wade:

Yeah, I tend to be somebody who tries to find upsides and things uh you know that you do these kind of um, I don't know, uh, personality tests type thing, yeah, and I'm always and I tend to be what they call an optimizer. So whatever the situation I'm in, tend to find the best possible thing that I can in it wonderful.

Chris Grimes:

So I'm just doing the maths of where we're up to in the tree. I think that's three things that have inspired. Is that correct? I think I think so. Yeah, and now we're on to uh the uh. Squirrels borrow from the film up. What are your two monsters of distraction? I've heard it called recently shiny object syndrome. Irrespective of anything else is going on for you, or wherever you find yourself in your global remit, what are your squirrels of distraction?

Antonia Wade:

oh, squirrels do you know, it's funny. I've got a very little, very cute and shaggy terrier, and so I spend my life with the dog being distracted by squirrels.

Chris Grimes:

Can I ask your dog's name as well?

Antonia Wade:

Yeah, he's called Biscuit.

Chris Grimes:

Biscuit the squirrel guard.

Antonia Wade:

I love that. Yeah, well, he was named by the kids, so I think he's lucky he's not called Batman or something, but yes, so, and actually he's, I have to say he is. It's a shame he's not. He's not actually here, otherwise I'd show you him, but he's, uh, he's very sweet looking. He looks like a little teddy bear. So luckily he's very good and patient with children, because little kids come running up to him and was wanting to stroke him because he looks quite sweet. So, uh, yes, he's.

Antonia Wade:

I just wonder what would happen if a kid, a kid, ran out dressed as a squirrel.

Antonia Wade:

Well, yes, so then I might be different reaction um, so, uh, so, 100 my children, I mean, you know, I will put down anything, uh, in order to give them the attention, uh and whatever it is that they need, um, and it's kind of interesting because when they're babies, you sort of think that, um, that's going to be the time when they kind of need you the most, and as they grow into teenagers and young adults, you actually realize they need you sort of even more than as they're learning how to be grown ups and think about the world.

Antonia Wade:

And so I would put down anything and everything for them anything and everything for them. It's interesting too, because sometimes you kind of have to remind yourself that the things that they sometimes are coming to you would feel quite small for you, but they're obviously very big for them, and so it's important that you kind of give it the attention that it deserves, and so I find them really enjoyable. It's a nice squirrel to chase, um, but you know, again, I think that that helps to keep you balanced, uh, in your work uh, how old are your squirrels currently?

Chris Grimes:

you mentioned, they're teenagers yeah, 15 and 13.

Antonia Wade:

So, uh, one's going through gcses and the other is it's funny, he's the the younger one's a boy and he's just done that thing of going from looking and feeling like a little boy to suddenly being like a teenager and loafing around and being generally eating everything in the fridge.

Chris Grimes:

So I call my squad the plague of locusts with the fridge, yes. And my son's suddenly six foot three and I'm getting patted on the head quite a lot and it's quite alarming. Stan is 18 yeah, definitely.

Antonia Wade:

Well, my 13 year old has just become taller than me, so, yes, quite a lot of that goes on.

Chris Grimes:

Even though it's like a centimeter, yes, I still get quite a lot of pats is he taller than his dad yet, because that's the other thing that stereotypically begins to happen, doesn't it?

Antonia Wade:

not yet, uh, but I don't think he's far away. So yeah, I am. I think, uh, definitely that my other. It's not really a squirrel per se, but I really enjoy having friends over and entertaining. I love cooking, and so I can be quite distracted by thinking about what are we going to eat tonight, what I'm going to make, looking up recipes, trying new things. I find it a very pleasurable distraction. I probably shouldn't say it, but there are probably some meetings that I'm in where I'm probably thinking more about how I should be marinating chicken than the order of the day in the meeting. So it's somewhat of a squirrel. I don't know if that quite kind of counts, but I definitely it.

Chris Grimes:

There I'm totally. The way to my heart is definitely through my stomach exactly, but uh, really I love cooking at home.

Antonia Wade:

We moved into, uh, this house just before covid and it was all done before we moved in, um, but the people who lived here before obviously really liked cooking so they've got a really nice kitchen. I love it and, uh, yeah, just spending time in the kitchen. You can't worry about too much if you're chopping up an onion and thinking about kind of what you want to make. So I'm pretty experimental but I'm a good cook so I can kind of get away with it More. I like cooking more than baking. My daughter loves baking so she takes care of the puddings and I do the rest.

Chris Grimes:

What a dream team, fantastic. If I may ask, what's your signature dish of the moment?

Antonia Wade:

I don't know that I have a signature dish per se, but my grandmother was Italian, so I'm pretty good at Italian food, but I also really enjoy spicy food, so I do quite a lot of curries and things as well.

Chris Grimes:

Oh, nom, nom, nom, nom nom, If I could just say that, Thank you. And now I think we're into the one. Which is a quirky or unusual fact about you, Antonia Wade, that we couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

Antonia Wade:

Yeah, so a few years ago I got really into photography and I really enjoyed it and I was the sort of runner up to the runner up if you know what I mean to the Wildlife Photographer of the Year Award, whoa, with a photo that I took of a bird. My husband loves bird watching and loves birds, and so I had the camera out at an opportune moment. And, yeah, I have to say now I'm thinking about it, I'm like I should toss the camera out at an opportune moment and, yeah, I have to say now I'm thinking about it, I should toss the camera off again, I should start going again, but something that I yeah, that's a round of applause.

Chris Grimes:

Well, congratulations, and do please share that photograph. I'd be intrigued to see it. Wonderful, we've shaken your tree, hurrah. So now we stay in the clearing which is in the beach in kerala in in india, and now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold. So when you're at purpose and in flow, antonia, what are you absolutely happiest doing and what you're here to reveal to the world?

Antonia Wade:

so, um, I I really love working and I feel like I have such an exciting and interesting job, and so I love looking at creative work from agencies. I love reading ideas for ad copy. I love thinking about the end-to-end campaign experience. I love thinking about the end-to-end campaign experience, and so when I'm in my flow, I just really enjoy getting into the work process. I love talking to the team about why they've made the decisions that they've made. I love understanding from brilliant creatives why they've come up with the recommendation that they have. I really enjoy offering a different perspective and helping the team to move the work along. So that's when I'm really happy is when I'm in the work with the team and we feel like we're creating things that are worthwhile and interesting and different.

Chris Grimes:

And there is a very exciting moment coming up, which is show us your QR code, please. I'm going to point people to your book that I know that you wrote during a period of gardening leave and, whereas most people might have just laid down and slept a lot, apparently you thought nope, I'm going to write a book and we'll come on to that.

Antonia Wade:

Well, I mean, actually it was not really me, it was more. My husband said I think we're going to get divorced. If you're knocking around the house for three months with nothing to do, fair enough, I'll find something to do so.

Chris Grimes:

Your husband is an Antonia whisperer. He knows what makes you happy, so we are going to show a QR code to your book, which is called Transforming the B2B Buyer Journey, thank you, which I congratulate you for. That is coming up, I promise, so thank you for that. Alchemy Girls, you love work and that's fantastic, so now I'm going to award you with a cake. Hurrah, so you mentioned your daughter does the baking rather than you, but do you like cake? Antonia? Everybody likes cake, of course. Kenya, everybody likes cake. Of course, of course you do. Thank you for saying that.

Antonia Wade:

Controversially. I think carrot cake's my favorite. I was thinking about what's my favorite and chocolate's obviously out there, but I think I do like a good carrot cake I have to say.

Chris Grimes:

In fact, I've got a comedy prop that I occasionally whip out. It's a cake that I think is going to be pleasing to you. Boom, a carrot cake, there we go. Perfect, that's a dog toy, apparently, so you should give back your lovely pooch. But anyway, now you get to put a cherry on your carrot cake, which is stuff like what's your favorite inspirational quote that's always given you sucker Antonia, and pulled you toward your future.

Antonia Wade:

Yeah, so somebody said to me a few years ago you are where you are today because of the decisions you made five years ago.

Antonia Wade:

And I really love that because it really grounds me and, as I think about the decisions that I make today and that's going to create the person that I am in five years time, and I find that very helpful from a perspective point of view, but it also, I think, helps me to make good decisions now, because I'm sort of thinking forward five years and I also find it, you know, when I think about where am I now? Am I where I want to be in my life? Am I doing the things I want to do? Like the reminder that I kind of set, like I set myself up five years ago and I made the best decisions that I could with the information that I had at the time. So I often talk to my team about that as well, which is, you know, how are you thinking about what you're doing today as an investment in yourself five years forward? And so, yeah, that's something that I find quite inspirational.

Chris Grimes:

That's really really relatable, Interestingly, this whole construct that. I'm here, privileged to talk to you, doing is five years old and I remember setting this up five years ago. Yes, so that was an intriguing insight, thank, you.

Antonia Wade:

There you go, chris. You are where you are today because of the decision you made five years ago, so it's come to pass, and if it wasn't for the pandemic, I wouldn't have even had the idea.

Chris Grimes:

And so that's what's quite interesting, and do you sometimes remember, to remember, to realize that, oh, I'm here now because of that five years ago, or are you always thinking five years ahead?

Antonia Wade:

No, no, definitely it's a retrospective as well, and it's I think it's a way of appreciating and acknowledging the fact that you, you know you're in a continuum and you know you. I think it's important to respect the decisions you made in the past. As I said, I am a strong believer that you always make the best decisions you made in the past. As I said, I am a strong believer that you always make best decisions you can with the information that you have yes, right, and so, therefore, you know if you've achieved things, that's because you had good information, you ask the right questions, you make good decisions, and that's kind of set you forward.

Antonia Wade:

And but also, you know, there's also, of course, there are times in your life where you feel like you're not having a great time, and so it's also then important to take ownership back of that and say, okay, yeah, but I have, I have equity in this, like I, I can make it. I can make decisions today that mean that in five years time, I'm not going to be in the place that I feel like I am today, and so I find it quite um inspiring, in bad times as well as good yes, which then anchors to that other stoic thing of and this too shall pass, even when it's tough sometimes exactly exactly yes um next question, um what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Chris Grimes:

antonia?

Antonia Wade:

I think so. I had a really great boss a few years ago. Um and uh, their advice to me was that you can't control everything and you can't be everything to everyone, no matter how you want to. So when you're thinking about where you spend your time, particularly in a work context, what are the things that only you can do, and spend your time doing that sense, and so feel okay about delegating the stuff that you think that somebody else can do, feel okay about saying no to projects that somebody else could do and instead only do, do the things that only you can do. And actually it's interesting. I then talked to a subset of boss and said to him you know, look, you know, there's all this work to be done. I can do all of these projects, but I really don't think you're going to get the right value out of me, because this is the one that I think only I could do. I think that these five other five projects anyone else could do or other people could do, but other people could do, and so why wouldn't you want to focus my time and the thing that only I could do?

Antonia Wade:

Yes, I think that having that really good, strong sense of what you're good at what, what your strengths are, and making sure that you really try and spend most of your time doing the things that only you can do, I think really helps you to A be a better boss, because you delegate other stuff.

Antonia Wade:

I think it helps you to keep a confidence about the value that you add to an organization and be very clear about that, and I think it helps you to make sure that you add to an organization and be very clear about that. Um, and I think it helps you to make sure that you spend most of your time doing things that you enjoy and that you're good at. Um, and I think that there's certainly when I was younger, there was a view of leadership that you know you have to be kind of universal leader and you have to be able to do everything equally well, and I think that there's now a much more kind of interesting school of thought that says actually you should play to your strengths yes I think that that was a helpful intervention for me that many years ago, um, because I have tended to do that and I think that that's served me well in my career again a wonderful crisp, clear, leadership, reflection, insight.

Chris Grimes:

Lovely. Um, with the gift of hindsight, what notes, help or advice might you proffer to a younger version of Antonio Wade?

Antonia Wade:

I think there are periods in your life where you know you worry about all of the things that could happen, and I think my general advice to myself would be it's going to be okay, it's going to be fine. And you know, I think that I am lucky that things are okay and they are fine and I found a job that I love in a company that I really like and got a fantastic team. I've got an interesting job. I've accomplished a lot and I've got an interesting job.

Antonia Wade:

I've I've accomplished a lot, um, and I think that there've been periods of my life where I've just been so worried about will I fulfill my potential? Will I get that opportunity? Will I, um, you know, will I be able to find things that I like doing? Will I be able to find a man that I want to be with for the rest of my life? You know like you worry about all of these things when you're younger, um, and you spend a lot of time and energy worrying about it, um. So, yeah, I kind of feel like I would want to go and just put a reassuring, uh, motherly arm around my younger self and just say it's gonna be fine.

Chris Grimes:

I love that. It's gonna be fine. So we're ramping up shortly to talk about Shakespeare and to talk about legacy and how you'd most like to be remembered shortly. But just before we get there, this is the pass the golden baton moment, please. Now you've experienced this from within. This is a bit like they don't like it at all, mr Manoring, but who might you most like to pass the golden baton along to, as Timothy Tim Hughes did to you, to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going? Who?

Antonia Wade:

might you most like to pass the golden baton along to Thank you? So there's somebody that I met at work years ago and then we became great friends. We had children at the same time. We're children of great friends, we live quite close, we see each other a lot, but she's also a phenomenal, inspirational leader, a phenomenal marketer a phenomenal marketer. So her name is Bonnie Pelosi and she is the head of marketing for EMEA, which is Europe, middle East and Africa for Microsoft. But not only is she a really impressive marketer and leader, she's just a really nice person. I think you'd enjoy meeting her.

Chris Grimes:

And just say her name one more time. Bonnie Pelosiosi, did you say yeah, and that sounds like it's onomatopoeic? It was spelt like it sounds. It sounds to me yeah. So your mission, should you choose to accept it, thank you very much is to furnish me with a warm introduction to bonnie pelosi. Thank you, how are you? And now, inspired by shakespeare and all the worlds of stage, I've got occasional props that I sometimes whip out. This is the actual complete works. It's not a first folio, but I took this to drama school, the bristol all week theater school, way back when, and it says 16 986 in the cover. So this is legacy now borrow from the seven ages of man's speech all the worlds of steve and all the bitter with it. Barely players when all is said and done. Antonia wade, how would like to be remembered?

Antonia Wade:

I think that I would like to be remembered as an inspirational female leader. I think there's not many female leaders and I think I take seriously my responsibility to be a role model to women who want to have a family and want to have an exciting and big job. There's not many of us around and, as I said, I believe passionately that you can at least have some modicum of having it all as a woman, and I take seriously my role modeling ability to do that. So I think that that's how I'd like to be remembered.

Chris Grimes:

How beautifully put a modicum of knowing and realizing that you can have it all Fantastic, really good. So now we're going to do a very exciting thing, which is show us your QR code, please. So if you're watching this online, this is now the QR code to your book which is transforming the B2B buyer journey. So would you like to tell us quickly the story behind the story of your good book?

Antonia Wade:

Thank you. Yeah, well, I mentioned the fact that I had this three months off and my husband was like, please do something, because you're going to drive me insane if not. And so I went on this writing course and wrote probably about a third of it, but I'd already had a publishing deal by then, and so then I kind of felt like I had to finish it. I'm definitely somebody who once I say that I'll do something, I'll do it. But then I got this big job, so I spent a lot of time in airports and on airplanes kind of writing the book.

Antonia Wade:

I hope it's a helpful guide for those people who are in business to business marketing, which is pretty underwritten about. There's not much in terms of help and guidance, um, it's a way of thinking about everything from, uh, how to think about campaigns right through to how much to make money, to how to talk to your cfo, about, uh, the value of marketing. Um, and I really wrote it kind of almost to your point before about my younger self, for my younger self, uh, to distill all the things I'd learned and what I hope is something helpful for people who are a bit more younger, I guess, in their journey.

Chris Grimes:

And so that's transforming the B2B buyer journey. If you're able to watch this, there is a QR code, but if people do want to go and find it, is it Kogan Paul? Is that the right?

Antonia Wade:

It's Kogan Page, but you can get it on Amazon as well.

Chris Grimes:

Yes, Also, I didn't mention yet, but you are the Marketing Week Awards 2024 winner. Do you want to tell us a bit more about that too?

Antonia Wade:

Yeah, it was really nice actually. So when Marketing Week told me about it, I said to them you know, it's pretty rare to be surprised these days, like you know, kind of get to a certain age and stage and you sort of are pretty unstoppable. But I was really really surprised. I'm the first uh, b2b winner of it. Um, and it's not something where you know, some of these award things you know you apply for and so you're in the mix, but I didn't apply for it. I was nominated by um, a panel um, and so it really came out of nowhere for me and I was absolutely thrilled. I made a beautiful award ceremony and and so I put a rare sight of me in a long dress and high heels and got my awards and I honestly I'm so, so proud of it and still really surprised and thrilled about it.

Chris Grimes:

A bit of a cherry on the cake of an already illustrious career which is fantastic. If you'd like to connect with Antonia on LinkedInin, here's the second show as your qr code, please. You may also be watching this on linkedin, but if you haven't, I'm sorry. If you, you might end up getting stalked by lots of people on linkedin who want to then join your profile. In fact, I'm still pending myself. Antonia, did you know?

Antonia Wade:

oh, sorry, that's, that's bad admin. All right, I will. Uh, I will make sure that I accept you I didn't just show.

Chris Grimes:

Show this QR code so you make sure you connect.

Antonia Wade:

That's actually genuinely bad admin of me, though I mean again usually pretty good at that.

Chris Grimes:

So well, you've got a fairly important job, so that's okay. That was only being facetious.

Antonia Wade:

Well, as I said, I'm going to see our central European team in Prague on Monday, which I can't wait, but Monday, which I can't wait. But that means I'm on a flight on Sunday, so it means I can get all of my LinkedIn admin done. I'll definitely do it.

Chris Grimes:

Thank you so much, as this has been your moment in the sunshine in the good, listening to show Antonia Wade, Global Chief Marketing Officer of PwC. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

Antonia Wade:

Well, I mean, firstly I'd like to say thank you, chris. I've really enjoyed it. It's a very different and unusual way of kind of unlocking your story. It's been very, very enjoyable. So thank you very much. I love the format. I guess the only last thing I would say is that this is supposed to be about leadership lessons, so hopefully people have found something somewhat helpful. And, a bit like I would say to my younger self, I would encourage people who are listening to be curious but also be bold and be ambitious and, you know, make sure that you fulfill your potential and ask for the things that you want and be uncompromising, uh, in the decisions that you make. Uh, think about that five year future self and the decisions you made five years ago that got you here today, and remember that you're on a continuum. So you might as well push the things that you want, and you don't always get what you want, but you certainly don't get what you want if you don't ask for it.

Chris Grimes:

What a wonderful reincorporation of the wisdom, of the leadership lessons you've served or served up along the way, as we've had this wonderful, delightful conversation. Just a quick of outro stuff from me as well. If you'd like a conversation about being my guest too, then the website for the show is the good. Listening to showcom, there are seven different series, strands, uh, one of which particularly exciting at the moment this has been leadership reflections. There's one called brand strand, founder stories, but the one I'm really really excited about about is called Legacy, life Reflections, which is to record the story of somebody near, dear or close to you for posterity, lest we forget before it's too late, using the construct of this show. Sorry, antonio, that's just me giving information in the background. If you'd like to connect with me on LinkedIn as well, you can do that here. Hurrah, hooray, hooroo, and thank you very much indeed. So thank you so much to Antonia Wade for joining me in the show. It's been an absolute delight. Is there anything else you'd like to say, antonia?

Antonia Wade:

No, just say thank you very much and have a nice weekend.

Chris Grimes:

Thank you very much indeed and goodbye. You've been listening to the Good Listening To Show with me, chris Grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else, with me as your host, then you can find out how care of the series strands at the good listening to showcom website, and one of the series strands is called leadership reflections. For business leaders or those of you that work in the leadership domain, to be able to share your leadership lessons learned along your way. Maybe you'd like to play it forward as you move from one leadership opportunity to the next. Maybe you're about to stop and you'd like to drop the mic to preserve your leadership legacy, or you may just want to consolidate where you already are as you share your leadership reflections. Tune in next week for more stories from the Clearing and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.