The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

'From Coach Potato to Ironman Triathlete' in the company of Ostomy Triathlete, Speaker & Author Caroline Bramwell: Now a Passionate Advocate for Ostomy Care Worldwide, through her own trailblazing story of Courage & Resilience

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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What happens when a self-proclaimed couch potato transforms into a formidable Ironman triathlete? Caroline "Ironostomy" Bramwell joins us to share her extraordinary journey of resilience and empowerment. Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis during her second pregnancy, Caroline faced a life-altering ileostomy surgery. Yet, she turned this challenge into an opportunity for change, embracing triathlons and becoming a passionate advocate for ostomy care worldwide. Her story is a testament to the idea that "the obstacle is the way," as she navigates her dual existence as a PR professional by day and a triathlete by night.

Exploration of identity takes center stage as Caroline recounts her transformative path from a bullied child to a confident adult. Set against the backdrop of serene woodland clearings, these personal narratives highlight how early experiences shape us and the power of reinvention. We dive into the mental and physical preparations necessary for surgical interventions that can lead to newfound freedom, as well as the joy of surpassing previous limitations and embracing a more active lifestyle.

The episode takes a global turn as Caroline discusses her advocacy work with the European and International Ostomy Associations. Her dedication to improving ostomy care standards echoes her personal motto, "Anything is possible." Listeners are invited to reflect on their own life stories through Chris's unique "5, 4, 3, 2, 1" exercise, a structured storytelling format that encourages introspection and ultimately, transformation. Join us for a fascinating exploration of personal triumph, the strength found in shared experiences, and the enduring power of storytelling.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the Clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin. We're in.

Speaker 2:

So welcome to a very special episode of the Good Listening To Show Stories of Distinction and Genius. I'm Chris Grimes, I'm a motivational comedian and personal impact coach and this, very importantly, is Caroline, as she's saying on her name tag, iron Ostomy Bramwell. Caroline was passed the golden baton to be in the show by Rafaela Reeve-Ilgenfritz, who is the creative director of UK Health Radio. You appeared on her show very recently, caroline, I gather.

Speaker 1:

Did yes, about the beginning of last month. I think it was Episode 24, I do remember that.

Speaker 2:

And I've described you as being a health choices trailblazer and inspirational speaker. You're here to inspire businesses, students and all other individuals the world over with your extraordinary story of if I may reference the Daily Stoic the idea of the obstacle is the way. You can obviously get on the open road shortly, but you had an ulcerative colitis diagnosis and then you turned to sport after having major surgery to have your large intestine removed and a permanent ileostomy formed. Now that's an extraordinary diagnosis and confrontation and, as you say, of your own volition. You know your resilience is only truly tested when the barriers are presented. So it's a complete privilege to have you here and we're really excited to get you on the open road. So if people don't have a frame of reference and hopefully I've blown some happy smoke at you as to why you are here but if someone says, oh hello, what do you do then? So what's your favourite way of avoiding or answering the question? So why Ionostomy Brownwell? What would you say? Caroline is all about?

Speaker 1:

Caroline has two sides to her. She's a professional businesswoman doing PR and marketing by day. She's a professional businesswoman doing PR and marketing by day and, like superman superwoman when I'm not on my screen, I'm wearing lycra, so I am a triathlete and inspirational speaker in that realm and in your book um canon.

Speaker 2:

I love the title in researching you, from loo rolls to lycra is what you have written, which I commend you for your title, caroline.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I credit my husband. I came up with some really cheesy ones that would never go away with it with the publisher. So my husband came up with Lou Rose to Lycra.

Speaker 2:

So whilst we've got you as a world exclusive. Can you remember any of the other cheesy ones that you didn't go with?

Speaker 1:

Oh, they're too grim to actually say publicly, because my husband just went what you can't say that.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, it's the moving from being a self-confessed couch potato petrified of water immersion, unable to swim, you transformed to a tough can-do individual and now doing Ironman triathlons. What's the female equivalent of Ironman? I always feel a bit sort of awkward for women of the world, but it's always called Ironman, so do you have your own moniker for that?

Speaker 1:

No, it's just Ironman, because it's a brand, so yeah, it's always called iron man, so do you have your own?

Speaker 2:

moniker for that.

Speaker 1:

No it's just iron man, because it's a brand. So, yes, yeah, it's just tough. It's like one of the. It's the toughest triathlon there is, unless you're doing some of these big ultras internationally or multiple 10 series.

Speaker 2:

But yes, yeah, it's huge and, as we've already sort of touched upon, our resilience isn't ever truly tested until the obstacles are presented. So do you want to just tell the story behind, the story of what brought you to being who you are and what you do?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, of course I was actually a mum. I've got a young kid, I was pregnant with my second child and at that point I was at that point where I kept having to dash to the toilet. You know I won't go too graphic, but basically urgency to go to the loo. I thought bleeding meant obviously it was in a baby. But it wasn't Bit of conversation with the GPs and it was actually. They suspected IBD. They thought not an IBD, they thought it was like inflammatory bowel generally. You know IBS, that sort of thing.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

But the way mine presented they started to suspect it was a bit more than just an IBS and I couldn't have the colonoscopy done until after I was six months pregnant for a baby. But just over six months pregnant they put the scope in and confirmed it was ulcerative colitis, which is autoimmune disorder where your body the way I always describe it your body's system to fight off viruses normally has its guns shooting outwards.

Speaker 1:

What it did is turns them inwards. So it's basically it thinks your body is the virus, so it's your own immune system attacking.

Speaker 2:

There's an equivalence in the world of sepsis in that regard as well, isn't it? Because that's another autoimmune way of attacking our own system.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, yeah and so, um, natasha was born by cesarean because she was stubborn, breech baby wouldn't turn around. So, um, she had to be a c-section. And within two weeks of her birth, because they couldn't treat me for the colitis while I was pregnant obviously because of the baby, the treatment is steroids, so they couldn't give me anything at that point. After she was was born, I lost two stone in two weeks so I became so skinny and tiny and I couldn't feed her. My body just didn't want to feed her and the disease kind of wracked me, and that's when they put me on steroids.

Speaker 1:

So I was on steroid treatment for best part two years before I made the decision to have surgery. But it's a yo-yo, sometimes it's under control, sometimes it's not. It goes up and down, but it just got to the point where I couldn't leave the house. My business was imploding and I had to make this decision of should I just go for surgery, which I did, and I wish I'd done it sooner, to be honest and that it, and excuse my ignorance, but that's the ileostomy, that's the fix.

Speaker 2:

Is that right?

Speaker 1:

yeah, the stoma is a stoma can be an ileostomy, a colostomy or a urostomy, depending on what part of the body they come from. Mine is ileostomy because they remove the whole of my large intestine. So the whole of my colon and rectum were taken and it's the end of my small intestine that protrudes through the wall of my abdomen and I have a bag on it. Somebody who's got colostomy that comes from the other side of the body where they've still got part of their large intestine and so that's formed from the large intestine. So there is a big difference between the two and pulling towards your future.

Speaker 2:

You now define yourself as being an ostomate. Triathlete is um and that's an extraordinary accolade to be a triathlete in any case but also the fact that the barrier will not will not get in your way and you'll overcome, and that's what you're, on the open road of inspirational speaking, all about yeah, yeah, not just with us.

Speaker 1:

I find a lot of people hear me and go oh my god, I've heard your story.

Speaker 2:

I took up couch to 5k and these are people who don't have stomas, so if that means I've inspired people to get up off the sofa, um, brilliant, absolutely brilliant and you mentioned a short while ago that it's a bit like a yo-yo managing the condition I saw in researching you, which I was really delighted to do last week you did. You were posting about having had a a complication in the sort of smooth, I suppose prescription path. Would you like to say a bit more about that, because you're writing something to help GPs now?

Speaker 1:

yeah, definitely, definitely. Just this goes to show how the medical system needs to be right for ostomates any age, any patient, really. But in the case of an ostomate, what happened for me was my GP's practice. I put in my request for my normal stoma supplies online. They normally send it off, ping on electronically to my supplier to send it. What happened? Somebody at the GP's office printed off the prescription in the paper form, like you would for anything else, and just sent it down to the local pharmacy, which meant I didn't get my product because by the time I'm going, where are they? Where are they? We found out the problem and in the meantime I had to use a different product that I had but I reacted badly to. So those who see my LinkedIn or my socials will see this very, very red, raw, sore skin and that's because I was having an of somebody up the chain not doing the right steps. So I'm helping to educate GPs, gp practices. I want them to understand the consequences of one person's little error could have a big impact on a patient.

Speaker 1:

I don't class myself as a patient, but you know they have a big impact on somebody else's life by not doing the thing right.

Speaker 2:

It's a very profound allegory about stakeholder management and about consequences of actions and how everybody's. You know cog in the chain is so extremely important. If there's to be no sand in the chain, you get the cogs of everything moving smoothly.

Speaker 1:

And I do sit on a panel with lots of professionals and we're working on the patient pathway aiming to pass it into NICE for stoma care. So from pre-surgery stoma care, working with stoma care nurses, etc.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

So I'm already working on that anyway. But what I've now seen at the real grunt end is that the GP practice, you know it can fall down at that last moment, yes, which is where the patient goes at the end of the day and remembering my acronyms, nice is the National Institute for Clinical Excellence.

Speaker 2:

Is that right?

Speaker 1:

spot on.

Speaker 2:

Yes, well done sorry so, caroline, it's my great privilege and joy to be able to curate you through the story scape of the good, listening to show there's going to be a clearing, there's going to be a tree, there's going to be a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called five, four, three, two, one. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a golden baton, a cheeky bit of shakespeare and a cake hurrah. So it's all to play for. So shall we get you on the open road of that?

Speaker 1:

Yes, let's go for it, let's get rolling.

Speaker 2:

So first question then your clearing is your serious happy place, which, by the way, is where, energetically, the whole podcast and radio show is set. So where, would you say, is Caroline Bramwell's clearing? Where is your serious happy place? Where do you go to get clutter free, inspirational and able to think?

Speaker 1:

mine is the woodland up at the back of my house. I'll take my dog I've got a lurcher and I'll take her for a walk up the back on the cairn and there's a clear. Ironically, it is a little clearing at the top right at the very top. Somebody's built a little den with sticks and there's a bench beside it to sit right at the top there it's just fabulous, so that's. I've never met anyone else up there. It's so quiet, so I just go up. Somebody's been there because they've built this lovely little den.

Speaker 2:

They've built an improvised bivouac. Yes, they have it's fantastic.

Speaker 1:

So I just go up there and sit up there either with my notebook or just with my thoughts.

Speaker 2:

And I love the fact that the the notion of a clearing spoke to you in that you just said oh yes, that's the clearing.

Speaker 1:

so oh, I knew it exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, instantly, I knew it, yeah yeah, so there you are, next to an improvised bivouac. You're you're in Ilfracrum. So just say the name of the place again. I know not Ilfracrum, it's, it's up in the.

Speaker 1:

Cairns, which is this big woodland? Uh, it's up in the cairns, which is this big woodland, uh it's. It's all hilly around here, but it's a big hilly bit with lots of trees excuse my geographical ignorance.

Speaker 2:

That's the same as the same as the cairn gorms, is it, or am I making that up?

Speaker 1:

well, it's spelt the same way cairn, cairn sorry but uh, yeah, but yeah, I'm joining north devon, so so there we are, then, in your clearing.

Speaker 2:

Wonderful, now I'm going to arrive with a tree in your clearing and, a bit Waiting for Godot-esque, a bit deliberately existential because of my hefting background, we're now going to shake your tree in being an inspirational speaker to all. The interpretation of the exercise 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. You've had five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you and then two things that never fail to grab your attention. And that's where a couple of random squirrels are going to come in, or from the film Up where the dog's going going. Oh squirrels, you know what are your monsters of distraction. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us it's not a memory test.

Speaker 1:

So we're going to go back now, I'll make you smile, I'll tell you that wonderful.

Speaker 2:

So let's get on the open road of interpreting your four, three, two, one, please, over to you right, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Um, well, your your first thing. The four, the four things that have shaped me, I would say, and I've played with this and it really I quite got emotional thinking about this actually, and I will not love on here at least I won't, I try not to basically the things that shaped me and I look back when I was at school. I went to an all-girls school and I was bullied. I was bullied at school and I was so quiet and I just got quieter and quieter at school and I think that had a big part on me and when I was making some notes, it really it resonated with what I've done going forwards.

Speaker 1:

So the fact that I was bullied, it's only now, as I look back at it, and realize how the actions of people back then can just be carried through the rest of your life. But you don't consciously know you're doing it. So for me it's like, oh, I'd better be quiet. Oh, I better be quiet. That was really quite something. So. So, thinking about what shaped me this morning, I was thinking that really did, because I think that stopped me being the true me and it probably wasn't the true me true me back then. So I would say that was a big one really quite interesting.

Speaker 2:

There's a real interesting allegory there and about the notion of bullying in life, but also, you know, the notion which I've stumbled upon recently called quiet quitting, where people just begin to exit almost using silence as a currency yeah, yeah where it shuts people down. But, um, thank you for that first shade. Anything else you'd like to tell us about that and how that's impacted you?

Speaker 1:

um, I would have said I didn't think it impacted me, although when I left the school and I went on to college I put on my armor because I was moving from one school the bullies didn't get kicked out by the way, so they did get thrown out of school, um, and things got slightly better. But when I went to college I then thought I'm not going to be that person anymore and I was a motorcyclist. I was into motorbikes back then. You know boyfriends from motorbikes and stuff, and what I did. I went to college. I've got a great big leather jacket off of a friend who was a hell's angel. He was passing it on, so I've got his leather jacket. So when I went to college I was wearing this leather jacket. Big energy changed my name from Caroline to Carrie and so there was a new persona. This new strong persona went through college. So you know, it's quite weird how that made me go another testament to the.

Speaker 2:

That was almost like the first major resilience test or obstacle in your life. And then to, to re, to reinvent yourself wearing the hells angels leathers.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, harry is in the building yeah, but it's funny now, years, years later, when I got into work and professional, I resorted back to caroline because it was more professional. You know, this leather clad woman isn't the professional, although you'll love this one. One of my bikes. I owned an old Jaguar 350. It was a motorcycle and sidecar. It was an old rat. It had been hand-painted silver by a previous owner and I rode to work on it every day wearing full Barisheen racing leathers.

Speaker 2:

And were you giving people a lift or you just had all your clutter, your stuff?

Speaker 1:

At the weekends. It had people in it. I'd have a boyfriend on the back and his mate in the sidecar, and I was the one who'd turn up at the kebab shop at the end of the evening and take the helmet off and all my hair froze out.

Speaker 2:

You did two things designated driver, but also Wallace and Gromitland where you were there.

Speaker 1:

It really was Wallace and Gromitland, but it was brilliant. It was brilliant so yeah, but I used to. When my first job was in a company doing print works and stuff like that marketing company, it was at the time when we used to hire motorcycle couriers to transport artwork around. What always made me smile was these couriers that would come in to collect the artwork off me in my suit, didn't realize I was the girl they waved to every morning when they passed me on the bike going to work. So I thought that was quite amusing.

Speaker 2:

But you were the cool one and they were the ones that were aspiring to be that cool. Yeah, yeah, did you have a full set of the goggles that I'm imagining?

Speaker 1:

no, I wasn't big holes, don't worry, just full, proper helmet.

Speaker 2:

But I did look funny wearing full racing leathers on an old great shapeage of recovery from post-bullying to now being the the sort of leather-clad metaphorical hell's angel stroke, wallace and gromit stroke. Yeah, wonderful, and now we're shapeage number three, please.

Speaker 1:

I'd say the second thing that shaped was my dad, because he passed away young and so I think losing him. He was only 52 and I was in my early 20s and I had literally just gone out and set up my business and it was in that first six months of me setting up my business and then my dad passed away of a heart attack. So that was a real shock because if I'd had one, I had one business lunch with my dad. He worked in construction and I always remember going to his place of work and saying should we go and have lunch? And that was just so lovely to be self-employed, go and meet my dad and go and have some lunch with him. But I only got to do that once. So the passing of my dad was a big, a big thing really and you have siblings as well.

Speaker 1:

Oh, this is good yeah, I've got two younger sisters as well, so the impact on each of us was different my, my, my next sibling down. She had just had a little boy. He was only three weeks old, so she was going through all of that with the death of my dad. And then my youngest sibling, who is seven years younger than me. She was out on a riverboat cruise and didn't actually know, so she didn't know until she got home. So obviously she's got everyone has their own issues when somebody passes, and so for each of us it was very difficult yes for different reasons, but it's impacted on all of us.

Speaker 1:

But we really are a very tight, close family, so and is your mother still with us as well? She is, yes, yes, she's still here, so, but we're all very, very close and did she ever remarry? No, she has a long-term partner, but sadly he passed away as well. But she's now at the point that she's now got Parkinson's, so we're sort of looking after the care for her as well now later in life.

Speaker 2:

And another part of your resilience. There's a lovely through line here of resilience and obstacles and then finding the way and supporting others.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a big part I recognize in myself yes I do things for other people, I do a lot for other people. So, yeah, definitely. So the passing of my dad was big. I actually moved back home with my mum for six months after he passed away because they were in the local wine guild, so all her friendship groups. Suddenly dad wasn't there, so I started to do it with her. So we were going off doing wine tastings at weekends and stuff and we went on a trip to the cooking home, gardens and stuff together so, in terms of your timeline, when was this circa?

Speaker 2:

this is?

Speaker 1:

I would say that's now gosh, over 30 years ago. Over 30 years ago. Okay, because I'm thinking how old I am.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna I'm not trying to age us both, oh no no, oh, blimey.

Speaker 1:

No, it's my birthday this week as well, so it's gonna be a like nearly it's my birthday in 11 days too, so we're probably yes, go for it oh, mine's on friday, so mine's friday, so yes'm going to turn 59 this week.

Speaker 2:

And I'm going to be 62, born in 62, 62. So it's just one of those freaky go figure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly so. Yeah, so it's been a long time. You know my dad passed away 30 years plus ago, but yeah, you do sort of resonate to things. Yeah, too young, definitely, and that impacted me. When I got close to that age I started to worry about I'm gonna be 52 yeah but somebody said to me yeah, but your dance, everybody's got their own journey. Yeah, that was his journey, it wasn't my journey. So just because he passed at 52 didn't mean I was going to and indeed very profoundly.

Speaker 2:

You're very, very much on your own journey, as we're going to further explore as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly so that was a big thing.

Speaker 2:

So I think we could be on to the fourth shapeage now, if I'm getting me math right oh, no, three we had bullied and dad sorry, cashier number three. Yeah, come on, come on right.

Speaker 1:

Third one clearly had to be my stoma surgery big, big, big one. You know, trying to make the decision to have the surgery was massive, but I'd been at the point where, um, my business had been imploding. I was losing clients only because you have a turnover clients with marketing and PR marketing. You know, you have clients for a few years and then they change, etc. But as they dropped off, I wasn't finding any new ones because I couldn't go out. I couldn't go out, I couldn't go to meetings. I went to one meeting with a client and I disappeared to their bathroom for an hour. They thought I'd left the building, but it wasn't. It was the impact of the client. You are just so out of control with this disease and at that point I thought I can't go to meetings. I started to let my staff go because I didn't have as much income coming in. So that's where the business was just Unsurprising, a real restriction happening Absolutely Massively.

Speaker 1:

And my husband worked for me as well, so the impact was going to hit both of us in one go. So that's why, when I came to the point of thinking about surgery, having lived with this colitis and had the baby, natasha was probably just coming up for four years old when I had the surgery. Robert was six, tasha was nearly four, and that's when I made the decision, sat down with my husband, craig, and we discussed it. I do all like this. The scenario of that decision was a rare treat.

Speaker 1:

I went to the cinema, he and I went out to the cinema. I rarely left the house. I haven't eaten all day, I haven't had any stress. I was trying to make sure I didn't have a flare up while I was out. All fine for the cinema. When we came out, uh-oh, urgency hit Gone 11 at night, nowhere to go, nothing's open. So I dive in the bushes by the car park and my husband's walking up and down on patrol, making sure nobody didn't see me hiding in the bushes for so long. When I eventually emerged, he said to me I think we have to think about things, we need to make a decision. And I said, yeah, I think we do His suggestion. I think we should install a port-a-loo in the back of the car. I went no, that's not what I was thinking. I'm thinking surgery is now real.

Speaker 2:

I'm ready for may I ask what the film was? Because of course you'll never, not, not I can't remember.

Speaker 1:

He will, but I won't. He'll remember it because to him he remembers that night better than I do, because I've spent most of it in a bush when you can pin me what the film was. Because that's a, that's such an iconic film, because yes, exactly, I'll have to ask him what it was, because it's probably called the Russell in the bushes or something, but anyway it's probably.

Speaker 1:

Russell Crowe in it. But yeah so. So then, making that decision to have surgery was a biggie, and whilst most people might think it's awful, it's awful, it's awful actually, when I had it done, it was the best day ever because I was so ready for it. I'd gone into it open-minded, I'd gone through the mental side of it beforehand, stuck a few bags on my body to see what it looked like, had a good cry and prep myself, and then, when they actually did it, they took away this humongous bowl of tablets that I would take on a daily basis. I went you don't need these now because literally they've cut away all the disease.

Speaker 1:

They had to wean me off the steroids, but it was all the other tablets I had to take as a side side effects, and I came out smiling. Well, I was told. I woke up smiling because I've got this thing and I was discharged within two days. But I was the first person in the world to have single site keyhole surgery for this procedure, which means, even though I knew I was going to have keyhole surgery, my surgeon created the one hole, did all of it through the one and then brought my stomach out through it. So I've actually got no scars on my body because it was all done through there. So that was it took him about an hour or two longer than it normally would, but actually it meant I could get home with less um slicing up and chopping up at my body so again with the through line of resilience.

Speaker 2:

It's wonderful in wonderful in the world of coaching about how you've reframed your experience in order to bring in the new reality. But by reframing it in a positive, optimistic way, it solves a problem and creates a whole new future.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because I think at the time when I spoke to the consultant beforehand he said well, you could get the stoma, but we'll leave that last little bit of rectum left because later on you might decide you want to have it reconnected and have what we call an internal pouch. I knew that would mean more surgeries. Now I had a four-year-old and six-year-old and I just said no, quality of life is what I want. I want to be with the kids. Just do it once, be done with it. And that's what I did. I made the decision there and then to just say give me the whole works. So I had everything removed, so there's no going back, and I've got what we call in the ostomy world a Barbie butt, because it just got zipped up. So so the girls have Barbie butts.

Speaker 2:

I'm so sorry. I love that. Sorry, the Barbie butt.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's common in the in Austin. We well, you're either a Barbie butt or a Ken butt. So yeah, but uh yeah.

Speaker 2:

And lucky you're off the steroids because you don't want to end up with a Ken butt.

Speaker 1:

No, I don't want to get one. To be honest, my butt's never going to look like Barbie's.

Speaker 2:

But too much cycling. I like it's called a's kind of barbie yeah, so, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So having that decision was my big, big shaper, because that's what made me start looking at getting fit again yes because I couldn't look in the mirror. I'd cry if I saw myself, because I'm blown out with steroids puffed up.

Speaker 2:

So I turned to sport and, as you mentioned earlier when you first had some photographs done, the photographs you sent me of what you are now about. You, you wear your bag with, with, well, a sort of majestic. Here it is, yeah, yeah, that's so helpful, yeah, that's trailblazing one of those songs you know.

Speaker 1:

Somebody says what's the song for you? I'd go. This is me from the greatest showman that will be. It is this is yes it's exactly me. So yeah, so I turned to sport just to get fit, to do things with kids.

Speaker 2:

Really, yes, I didn't realize how driven I was by bits of blink I'm talking as I speak to caroline those you listening on the old podcast and radio show. She's got an absolute. Well, there's about. It looks like there are about 25 little blinging lanyards there of your athletic awesomeness.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, all my triathlon medals, London Marathon medal, all sorts hanging up there. So, yeah, I turned to cycling first. So I cycled London to Paris in 24 hours the year after my surgery just to prove to myself hey, I can get out the house. I don't have to hide behind trees. I can't. I'm not watching for a toilet all the time. So I did that to prove to myself and learned to cope with my bag. On endurance event and then I did another one two years after that, newcastle to London.

Speaker 2:

And again, that must be so helpful for anybody else with the same condition, to prove that, look, this is how free and liberated you can be.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. It is very liberating having a bag when you've lived with a condition that has held you back and kept you at home and you know people can be on tablets and what we call biologics, so you know drugs etc to try and manage it. All the time you're going up and down, up and down with it, but actually sometimes the surgery.

Speaker 2:

Whilst people fear surgery, it's actually what's it give you for me, it gave me freedom, quality of life and, if I may, next time we record you should maybe change your monitor to caroline barbie. But branwell, that's just a gift that will keep on giving. Oh, yes, I believe. Now, forgive my math we're on to the three things that inspire you.

Speaker 1:

Now, yeah, yeah, uh, historically, people who do phenomenal things on telly. I would sit on the sofa and watch the Tour de France, the Ironman and Marathon du Sable, you know, all these bizarre extreme sports that you watch on telly. Those were what inspired me. Watching people cross that finish line and the elation of what they went through. Those were my inspiring things. So, um, yeah, I would say they were definitely the thing, but I would only watch them and I thought I'd do one.

Speaker 2:

So that's why it's quite amazing to think, god, I'd do that and I, while I remember to mention, you're featured, are you not, in the Louise Minchin book?

Speaker 1:

yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Louise Minchin's book Fearless Adventures with Extraordinary Women. She popped up in my inbox back in 2021, I think it was now and said oh, it's Louise off the telly and you know you think it's spammy. Yes and it really was Louise off the telly. Did you know that I've already interviewed Louise off?

Speaker 2:

the telly. Did you know that I've already interviewed Louise off the telly around about the time of publishing her book? There's a series strand that I do, called good books, where you get to put your book on a metaphorical plinth within the clearing brilliant, and Louise mentions Bill in the show, so that's one I'll definitely send you which one was that? One the dare to try it was the fearless oh fearless, oh fearless the book you are in, I have talked about brilliant, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So she just popped up in my inbox and I thought, blimey, this is weird because, um, it had been back in 18 when my book came out lou rolls to lycra came out. I was in waterstones, my publisher had got it in waterstones and I went in there all excited great people are going to buy my book. But right next to it was Louise's first book. Could dare to try. But I'm like, oh great, a tv celebrity doing triathlon as well. So what I did? I put both the books side by side on the end of the shelf, photographed them, put it on socials, tagged her and went. I guess this is the only time we'll ever race. And that was back in 18. And then, in 2021, she pops up in my inbox. I told her this story recently. She doesn't remember that, but I said that's when I first tagged you and she was like, oh my God.

Speaker 2:

Another resilience through line. There is the notion that comparison is a thief of happiness because you belonged in Waterstones right next to. In other words, your feet are under the table too.

Speaker 1:

You belonged in Waterstones right next to in other words, your feet are under the table too. You belong next. But I use it's a great analogy also because I say to people with their PR it fits brilliantly for me for PR. Pr is about drip, drip, drip, drip. You never know who you're influencing. You never know who's watching. At some moment something's going to pop up.

Speaker 2:

For me it was.

Speaker 1:

Louise Min popped into my inbox and said can we have an adventure together? What are you doing? And I said well, I've booked in to do Cotswold 113, which is a half-iron distance. Cotswold what? Sorry, it's called Cotswold 113, 113, because you're covering 113.

Speaker 2:

I think that was the mark, what miles?

Speaker 1:

So what was miles? So is that what's the 113, 113 kilometers? Sorry, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, so this is um, a lake swim, then a bike and then a half marathon.

Speaker 1:

And she went, you know, it's just your every sunday, sunday afternoon joint, you know.

Speaker 1:

And so she said brilliant, I'll do it with you. So that was going to be our adventure. So we met on the day. Ironically, we were in a queue and I remember messaging her going I'm stuck in a queue trying to get in. I can't get into the thing, yet I know we're meant to meet. She said don't worry, so am I. And what happened? The lady in front of me got out of her car and it was Louise. She was literally the car right in front of me in the queue to get in. It's just freaky. So we did. We did the triathlon together. She interviewed me in the field afterwards, then she wrote the book and, yeah, we've all become good friends All the women in Fearless. We've become really good friends and we're doing stuff together, we're trying each other's sports out and all sorts. So Louise and I were both up in Blackpool a couple of weeks ago for some awards.

Speaker 2:

And you must send her this episode as well. I'd say the two episodes can collide in the universe.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I will. She'll be delighted that I've talked about Fearless more for her as well, but it's good We've created such a great friendship group. All the women in Fearless are just each phenomenal in their own way, and I'm honoured to be alongside some of these humongous names.

Speaker 1:

And right back at you they'll be honored to be alongside you too. Oh, thank you, but they, they're just fantastic ladies, yeah, but kadena we're just cheering kadena cox on at the um paralympics just a month ago, didn't we? Yeah, so yeah, she's one of our little team, but she's phenomenal. We sat up late at night chewing the cud over hidden disabilities. So yeah, so, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So watching sports inspirational sport was one of my things that inspired me um. And then seeing. The other thing that inspires me now is seeing other people take action when they've heard what I've done we touched on that very briefly earlier. For somebody to come to me and say I've heard about you, I've seen what you've done. Because of you, I've taken up couch to 5k or I've started to go to park run. I could never do what you do, but I've done this. They inspire me and those are the reasons that I push my boundaries. They inspire me and those are the reasons that I push my boundaries, because people are starting to do things and I think this is fantastic if, by doing what I do helps them and then telling me that, that just inspires me more. Just to keep pushing those boundaries.

Speaker 2:

It's the beauty of reciprocity. That's one of my favourite words about how we all influence each other.

Speaker 1:

So reciprocity is a beautiful word, and being able to make people aspire to reciprocate and I love that and I always say to them you're inspiring me, it's not me inspiring you, you're inspiring me because you're getting up doing it, so. So that's one of the other things. And clearly, obviously my children were my inspiration. I would never have got in a pool when I took up this cycling malarkey. After surgery, I couldn't swim um. So you know, for me, my children and it went deeper than that, didn't it using?

Speaker 2:

excuse the analogy, you're afraid of water immersion I was terrified.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would hyperventilate and panic if I got my face wet. So for me, the first step. I only got in a pool because I thought I want to swim with my children so sorry if you're terrified of getting your face wet.

Speaker 2:

Did you never have showers, or anything?

Speaker 1:

oh no, I know I've done these two big 24-hour cycle things. And then it's like, well, what next? What could I do next? And then I thought you know what, it doesn't need to be anything big, I'll just learn to swim. I was one of these people that would stay in your depth and just never get your face wet. So I just started taking swimming lessons and once I got hooked, my brain said oh, you can swim, oh you can bike, ride a bike. Oh, anybody can run, you just put a foot in front of the other. And then I thought, well, maybe I could just do a little local triathlon or something like that.

Speaker 2:

If I may, it's really obvious and clear how tenacious you are, and that is a compliment. I know there's yinz and yangs to tenacity. One of my great traits in life is I'm tenacious too, but one of the things that can piss people off the most is how tenacious I am.

Speaker 1:

I think I'm just one of those. Yeah, why not, let's give it a go people. But yeah, so from there I decided once I could swim one length, I thought, that's it, I could do triathlon and I found directly equivalent to couch to 5k.

Speaker 2:

You're just doing it and then you're just moving a few notches on your GPS to where you're heading to yeah, and for me, just getting my head under the water was the biggie.

Speaker 1:

It took me weeks to get my head underwater and once I did, I'm like, wow, this is phenomenal, I'm doing it. So, yeah, and it was just learning the technique, and so I then found the tri club. I went and joined the North Devon tri club and joined them and then you sent me that I've used as your main mother picture.

Speaker 2:

If you like, I'm going to reveal later on, and you look absolutely extraordinarily powerful within a in a red swimming hat. The picture that they'll see later from there is actually me coming out of the sea we did that down at the, at the sea, but the tri club.

Speaker 1:

I've stayed with the tri club and I realized quite how bad I was when I'm suddenly swimming with ironman people who've done ironman was just scary.

Speaker 2:

But again, a testament to slow, incremental progress. You don't have to be able to swim absolutely, you're a tri, a triathlete sorry, a triathlon straight away. It's a sort of process and a journey.

Speaker 1:

It's all incremental and through lockdown I actually got myself qualified as a tri coach. So I've actually gone on to become a qualified triathlon coach as well. So because I love teaching people to swim, particularly Aaronic.

Speaker 2:

Yes, the girl who couldn't swim now absolutely loves teaching swimming. So for me again, it's about giving people things, and we're going to get on to alchemy and purpose later on, so that I appreciate your point from that again. So, but there, my children were my inspiration, because the whole reason I'd be learning to swim was just so I could get in a pool with them, because they swim like fish.

Speaker 1:

So I thought that was my purpose. So I, they were my inspiration.

Speaker 2:

So those are my three inspiring things and now we're going to uh, talk about, borrow from the film up squirrels. So what? Never failed to grab your attention? What are your monsters of distraction?

Speaker 1:

your well, squirrels that never fail to distract you oh, it's always going to be something, it's always going to be a race. Or I'll tell you what it is when somebody puts a clip of an Ironman race and the music at the start and it's like ooh, ooh, which one's that? Ooh, ooh, could I do that one? Yeah, it's that power, the pull of a race, and people go, ooh, I'm thinking about doing such and such. And I'll go ooh, ooh, yeah, maybe I could do I could do that.

Speaker 2:

All the iron man races the same music, so it's like an icon music um, typically they use thunderstruck from acdc.

Speaker 1:

When you're standing on the side of the water, they start playing it it builds up.

Speaker 1:

My podcast producer is an expert at underpinning at this point, so we're going to get a bit of acdc thunderstruck, thunderstruck I'll tell you that just gets me in my heart because that's what we hear as we're going to get a bit of ACDC Thunderstruck, Thunderstruck. I tell you that just gets me in my heart because that's what we hear as we're stood at the edge of the water waiting to get in. That's what they play for us. So that's a big part of it.

Speaker 2:

You can if you're listening, which I know you will be that music, yeah, so that's like the music for it.

Speaker 1:

So it stirs me. And then the other thing has got to be exotic locations. You know, when you suddenly scroll a bit and suddenly reels pop up of these amazing places and I'm like I could go there, I do, I always say I could get in that water. It really is. So there's lots of exotic places I'd love to go.

Speaker 2:

So if I see one drift across my screen I'm off on friday, by the way, I'm interviewing two people from something called emergency duo. It's a husband and wife team who are doing some extreme cold swimming, going to the coldest places on the planet to swim at the north and the south pole. So I'll I'll tag you with that.

Speaker 1:

I'll I'll send that to you as well, well, kath pendleton, who is in fearless, is the first woman to ever swim the arctic mile I don't think I'll be following in that I know she does ice diving and I'm like, yeah, I might go do a bit of an ice dive, maybe with her. I've got build up to that. She's got to get your body used to that extreme cold.

Speaker 1:

But to go from one hole under another, I'm like wow but I'm hoping to go caving at some point with one of the other girls as well.

Speaker 2:

He does caving so again, you're amazing. Everything you say you're going, you will do it.

Speaker 1:

I know that as soon as I vocalize it, it's almost like that's it, it's out there that's another law of influencing.

Speaker 2:

Isn't it social proof if you say it out loud, you're more likely to do it, and I don't doubt that you don't need much to doling from that point of view. No, my husband would go do you have to keep saying things like that you've moved a long way from possibly getting a sort of commode in the back of your car yeah, complete oh my god. Yeah, that's unheard of. He really didn't have a clue, did he really?

Speaker 1:

didn't. I'm pretty. I thought his heart's in the right place, but that wasn't the answer.

Speaker 2:

I was very struck with the sort of creative solution of that, the sort of yeah, the book was brilliant for him so so yeah, my distractions are either exciting looking races or exotic places no one's ever said that distraction is an ice hole before.

Speaker 2:

That's extraordinary. Okay, now we're on to the. A quirky or unusual fact about you? Uh, caroline, ionostomy or not, bubble, but sorry, that's the wrong thing. Sorry, don't edit that out. That's funny. But, barbie, but branwell, um, what is a quirky, unusual fact about you? We couldn't possibly know until you tell us uh, now, this is funny.

Speaker 1:

You'll um, you'll love this because it does link into my bike and sidecar. I used to be a viking. Oh, I used to do medieval combat. Many years ago, in my late teens, early 20s. I used to train every weekend in medieval combat and we used to go out and put performances on. We'd get hired to do shows. They were not choreographed, it was proper fighting, but all our weapons were blunted. But we trained solidly to make sure that we pull the blow so we don't whack full force can I just ask you a question?

Speaker 2:

can you hear a really terrible sound now, because some people in the street have just started doing some extraordinary stuff that you only expect to happen in the middle of a podcast? Did you hear anything weird? No, I didn't hear any no, that probably means it's not going to happen. Awkward, so sorry. Back to your blunt instruments yes.

Speaker 1:

So all our weaponry were blunt, but the swords for me the the swords were a bit too heavy. A broad sword was a bit heavy for me, but you would start with a, an axe and shield. That was like the lowest of the low. You start as a peasant. You work your way up to the ranks, you see. So I started as, like, a peasant fighter, so I would fight with an axe and shield. So you've got your nice big wooden shield with the metal boss on the front. Yeah, that's the only time you can whack him really hard. You can whack the shields as hard as you like.

Speaker 2:

I have have had the Vikings Valhalla fight. Stunt coordinator called Richard Ryan on my show as well.

Speaker 1:

Oh my God, we were part of Vikings Valhalla. Oh, that's amazing, oh my.

Speaker 2:

God.

Speaker 1:

I used to be. Yeah, I was up in Buckinghamshire. That's where I was when I used to train with the Vikings of Valhalla, you might have met Richard Ryan, who is the stunt coordinator.

Speaker 2:

I was at the Bristol Vic Theatre School with him way back when and then he was amazing because he's out there. He lives in America now, but every season he is the stunt and fight coordinator.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, yeah, but I used to ride to our training. We used to train in full gear yeah with chain mail a lot.

Speaker 1:

Picture my wrapped bike, my motorcycle, with sidecar, boyfriend on the back. The sidecar didn't have with, didn't have a man in it. I had weapons in it. So every weekend, every friday evening, when we went training, his mate was on his bike and I took my bike and sidecar and all our weapons were sticking out of the sidecar. So I would have shields, axes, swords, but my best weapon was a pair of scrammer sacks which are like long fighting swords so I could fight with two swords, two short swords basically so that was my, that was my skill set.

Speaker 2:

I can imagine following you in your motorbike, with your sidecar, with all that weaponry poking out, thinking I wonder where she's going especially when you've got your your furry leg things on and wearing chain mail.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I crash on it that's proper viking geekery. Beauty right there this can miss me every week, but we would go and do performances, but we'd get hired in to come and do proper battles, but we would educate. It was an educational thing as well. So we would talk somebody would talk about the weapons, the period um, and they would pull two people up. We used to get hired by skull lager do you remember, skull?

Speaker 2:

I just scored. Yes, yeah, you're supposed to drink out of a friend's head, aren't you?

Speaker 1:

yeah, well, I've still got my drinking horn. I still actually have my drinking horn as well. Um, but what they used to do skull would hire us to go to a pub, but what they did was they provided as an amphibious vehicle that was done up as a viking ship, so we don't get on it just out of the town, come banging our way into the town to the pub with weapons clashing, and then we would do some battle uh, reenactment stuff in their car parks and they would pair us up. So they would go right, what should we have? Now? I know why don't we have the guy with the spear with the person with the two swords. So they would put me up against man with a spear and say do you think might win this one?

Speaker 2:

I can imagine sitting in the pub when suddenly the marauding viking hordes, you think, oh, I'd like to get raped and pillaged.

Speaker 1:

I know, yeah, exactly, but it was brilliant. And again, no other women did it and I would wear a helmet, so my hair was hidden and my chain mail sort of flattened everything. And it was only when the helmet comes off they realised I was a girl underneath and the kids always cheered for the girl. So the children when they said, who is your champion? And the kids wanted me to beat the men up, yeah, so that's my weird fact just keep changing.

Speaker 2:

So now we've shaken your tree, hurrah. Next we stay in the clearing, move away from the tree, and now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold. When you're at purpose and in flow, caroline Branwell, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Speaker 1:

I really have. I embody happiness, the care and provision of services for ostomates. I've really stepped into that realm. It's having lived it myself and I hear so many people who have bad experiences. I hear a lot who are doing great and you look online. The people online are generally the ones who are having a bad time. The ones who are having a good time are out having a good time, around having a good time. So I see so much lacking and support needed that I'm absolutely passionate about making sure we get things right for people yes and that means going into gp practices.

Speaker 1:

It's influencing, nice getting involved with projects like that, so I do that here in the uk. I sit on the board of the european ostomy association as well, so I see the differences in different countries. Norway have got it fabulous and yet africa we cover africa as well they've got it very poor and you see the extremes across the world europe and the world. So for me, my absolute passion and flow is about making a difference and are you a global ambassador officially in that regard?

Speaker 1:

um, on a european level, I suppose, because I sit on the european ostomy board and I sit as a part of that. I sit on the international ostomy association board as well, but that's only a more recent one. Um, but you know, it's rare for us to meet together face to face, very often so. But that's my passion to drive that better, to do more and utilize what I've got my voice, my abilities, uh, to help people. So that's my absolute passion is to live the best life with the nostril me that you could for each person.

Speaker 2:

You're a trailblazer. You really are, which I said about you at the beginning, and I'm absolutely convinced of that. And now we're going to order with a cake, Caroline, an ostomy Bramwell, and this is where you do you like cake first of all. Oh, yes, oh yes, Definitely a cake, girl. What cake would you like?

Speaker 1:

Yes, oh yes, definitely a cake girl. What cake would you like? Well, you can't beat a Victoria sponge, but I just cooked a ginger and lemon drizzle the other day, so that's still half a mat in the house, go you.

Speaker 2:

Ok, I'm going to put a cherry on your cake now. Be that your ginger lemon drizzle, go you with the eclectic mix there, or your Victoria sponge.

Speaker 1:

This is stuff like now. What's a favourite inspirational quote that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future? Mine is the one I've embodied. As anything is possible, I use it, but I've embodied it as well.

Speaker 2:

So and I saw that on your website too, which we will mention very overtly at the very end too, to book you as an inspirational speaker. So just say that lovely quote once again anything is possible boom. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Speaker 1:

this was from my dad before he passed away. In that little six months we had together when I was setting up in my business, he said to me be prepared to step on a few toes. And I thought, yeah, you have to. I'm not a meanie at all, but sometimes you can't also be the doormat. So his advice don't be or be prepared to step on a few toes lovely with the great gift of hindsight.

Speaker 2:

What notes, help or advice might you proffer to a younger version of Caroline Bramwell?

Speaker 1:

Oh, this one goes back to when I was being bullied and I would say to myself now that not to let anyone dim your light, you need to be brave and speak up because people will follow you. And when I thought that that just came to me when I got that question from you and I've reflected how much that means to me now, as much as it would have done back then, so I thought that was quite poignant and just say that one more time.

Speaker 1:

I'm just deliberately reframing it again yeah, it is never let anyone dim your light. Be brave, speak up, because others will follow beautiful.

Speaker 2:

Uh, we're ramping up to shakespeare, to talk about legacy in just a moment, but just before we get there, this is the pass the golden baton moment, please. So now you've experienced this from within by being given your damn good listening to in the good, listening to show stories of distinction genius. Who would you most like to pass the golden baton along to? To keep the golden thread of the storytelling going?

Speaker 1:

um, she doesn't know this yet, but I will be telling her. I'd like to pass the baton on to a lady called danny wallace. Danny is from iatqbcom, which is I am the queen bee. She is a speaker coach. She went from being homeless to making a million quid and she has got a big voice and helping others to share their voice. So I would pass this to danny wallace wonderful.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for that wonderful gift. And now, inspired by shakespeare and all the world's esteemed and all the really players, this is the moment where we're borrowing from the speech from Jake Cuisin, as you like it, to talk about legacy.

Speaker 1:

When all is said and done, caroline Ionostomy Bramwell how would you most has to be that there is a clear pathway and process for people going through surgery for an internal pouch or a stoma, and it's right every single time and they get that best care. So my legacy is to have a program in place that is adopted, that everyone gets the same level of treatment, and this has been your.

Speaker 2:

Oh sorry, just before we get there, where can we find out all about Caroline Branwell? On the Internet, and this is a moment, very excitingly, which is called Show Me your QR Code, please. So, if you're watching the show, read the book Caroline Branwell, inspirational Speaker, which, if you haven't already done so, you're watching the show. Read the book Caroline Branwell, inspirational speaker, which, if you haven't already done so, you should do. Here it is. You can click on the QR code. But just while people may or may not be clicking on the QR code, where can we find out all about you on the old interweb, caroline?

Speaker 1:

there are two places I'm going to share with you to talk to me as carolinebranwellcouk that is where you can find me as a speaker and I talk not just on stoma life but the implications there's so many analogies from what I've done but also ostomylifecouk. Ostomy Life is a new CIC social enterprise that I've set up because people who are fearing surgery they worry about food, they worry about exercise, and I've created Ostomy Life as a community interest company to help them in that area. And I've got TV's Greg Wallace, who also I do stuff. I'm his ostomy expert and he's completely behind what I'm doing there stuff. I'm his ostomy expert and he's completely behind what I'm doing there. So ostomylifecouk and that website is now growing. There will be a lot more content on there.

Speaker 2:

You've also featured with Raffaella Arieb Ilgenfritz on UK Health Radio. That's another really rich resource.

Speaker 1:

It's the world's number one talk health radio and you've just tell us a bit more about featuring with with her on her show stoma for life yes, um, she invited me to be a guest with her, uh, exploring the details of my triathlons, I suppose, uh, which was fantastic, and uh, she and I have connected in a in a whole different way, so I'm hoping that we can do some more together off the back of that as well.

Speaker 2:

And I'm very grateful for Raffaella having passed you the golden baton in the first place, so the trail is blazing away beautifully. Thank you very much indeed for that, as this has been your moment in the sunshine, in the Good, listening To show Stories of Distinction and Genius. Is there anything else you'd like to say, caroline?

Speaker 1:

I just want to say thank you and I want to say also to anybody out there who's confronting surgery don't be afraid, reach out. I'm happy to talk to people. So my doors are always open to people who are struggling. If I can't help you, I'll know somebody who can.

Speaker 2:

Wonderful. So you've been listening to the Good Listening To Show Stories of Distinction. Eugenius, If you'd like a conversation about guesting too, then here's another QR code for you as well. This is thegoodlisteningtoshowcom. When you're in the show, we use Restream to broadcast it. Blam it out globally. You can also slingshot with your own social media there too. It's also a show on UK Health Radio, where you get a week in the sunshine on UK Health Radio as well, and that gives you an audience reach through this vehicle of 1.4 million listeners across 54 countries and growing. So it's all very, very exciting. So if you'd like to be my guest too, you can do that too.

Speaker 2:

We're on LinkedIn, I know at the moment too. Just another show me your QR code, please. This is if you want to connect with me, Chris Grimes, on LinkedIn. Show me your QR code, please. This is if you want to connect with me, Chris Grimes, on LinkedIn. Very importantly, can we go back to Caroline Bramwell and look at you in your beautiful red swimming hat? Is that your favourite one, or do you have a sort of whole rainbow different colour?

Speaker 1:

I have lots. Every single race you go to, you get given another hat and another T-shirt and another medal.

Speaker 2:

And you have your bling yeah.

Speaker 1:

I'm your bling that hangs. But if I'm your bling, yeah, I'll be a bling that hangs on the wall behind me. But for the sea swimming, having something bright is important. If you're in the sea, so a nice bright pink, bright red, bright yellow, you'll find me in the sea.

Speaker 2:

Great stuff. So thank you so much. It's been an absolute privilege and a delight speaking to you. Tune in next time for more stories from the Clearing.

Speaker 2:

You've been listening to the Good Listening to show with me, chris grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how care of the series strands at the good listening to showcom website, and one of these series strands is called good books. If you've always wanted to write your autobiography but have always got a bit stuck, then maybe Good Books and the Good Listening To Show can help, using the unique structure of the show with me, chris Grimes, as your host. Together we can take a trip down memory lane as we record the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 of your life story, all set in the clearing or serious happy place of your choice. So, yes, get in touch if you'd like some help in writing your very own good book in the form of your autobiography, the story behind the story of being you. Tune in next week for more stories from the Clearing and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts.