The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Brand Strand & Founder Story: Running Past the Pyramids & Life-Lessons-Learned with Ammar Mohamed Ibrahim, Passionate Learning & Development Advocate & L-Box Podcast Host

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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Ever wondered how running around the iconic Pyramids could inspire a career in education? Meet Ammar Mohamed Ibrahim, PwC's Learning & Development lead and the visionary behind Tamakan, PwC's national talent development initiative. His journey of personal growth began with a life-changing volunteer stint teaching children in India, sparking his passion for education and development. Ammar's unique perspective on life and career is further enriched by his love for long-distance running, which he likens to life's marathon, full of challenges and milestones.

Ammar also co-hosts the L-Box Podcast with Khaled Khafagan, where they reveal the compelling stories behind LinkedIn titles, empowering lifelong learners. Listen as Ammar opens up about a peculiar nickname he earned at 11 and how it has stayed with him through his transition from Saudi Arabia to Egypt. From the joy and pain of running marathons to insightful cultural exchanges across nine Indian cities, Ammar's experiences provide invaluable lessons on resilience and self-discovery.

In our conversation, Ammar highlights the impact of influential figures in his life, particularly three pivotal colleagues and his adventurous, resilient parents. He shares the importance of having a clear, inspiring vision and how challenges fuel his competitive spirit. Whether discussing problem-solving, storytelling, or seizing opportunities, Ammar's insights offer a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone committed to personal growth and lifelong learning. Tune in for an inspiring episode filled with motivational anecdotes and heartfelt reflections.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, Chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the Clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, Chris Grimes. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin. And there we have it. Welcome to LinkedIn and welcome to a LinkedIn Live recording of the Good Listening To Show Stories of Distinction and Genius. And today is a very, very special day in the Good Listening To Show clearing Stories of Distinction and Genius. And today is a very, very special day in the Good Listening To Show clearing where, energetically, the whole show is set.

Speaker 1:

This is a brand strand and founder story episode where we're going to find out the story behind the story of being Ammar Mohamed Ibrahim, who is a client actually, he works for PwC.

Speaker 1:

He is the L&D lead and also you are the programme lead for Tamakan, which is PwC's firm-wide national talent development programme. I got very struck by your own sense of personal development as a journey. I know you're passionate about long distance running. I know it's a really exciting story, the story behind your story, where you volunteered at the age of 21 to go and teach in India very young children, which has then given you a laser focus, as you describe about yourself, to help anyone in any way that you can through learning and education. I'm just blowing a bit of happy smoke at you. And also you've got a career enhancing side hustle just getting going and congratulations, for about a week ago you've done your inaugural episode of your own podcast, which is called Lbox, so there's lots to discuss. It's a privilege to have you here and yes, so first question for you how's morale? What's your story of the day, Ammar?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, first of all, thank you for bringing me on board, chris. It's a different situation. I've always been the kind of, even in the corporate context, the interviewer and the host with my partner, so now it's a bit weird being on the other side. But, yeah, it's a bit weird being on the other side, but, yeah, it's incredibly exciting. I definitely resonate and relate to what you're saying, especially the story behind the story. I think Lbox definitely has a lot of commonality between that theme, because there's a lot to people beyond what you see on LinkedIn, on Instagram and all of that, and so, yeah, I'm excited. Um, although I did my homework, now I feel I didn't do any homework, but it's, yeah, it's a pleasure being with you, but one of your main cuts and thrusts of lbox, which I think stands for learning box.

Speaker 2:

You've not revealed that yet but is that the case yeah, it's not legend box, it's not lunchbox, it's, it's the learning box I like it could be lunchbox, because we all love food. Nom, nom, nom into lunchbox I'm not that courageous to call it lunchbox yet. But you never know, you never know and I know that you want to.

Speaker 1:

it's about empowering lifelong learners and you want to go beyond your linkedin title, so we are doing something quite sort of resonant in that we're interested in helping people to amplify the story behind the story, to get much more of what we want, which is 100% 100% Like.

Speaker 2:

The whole idea with with the box is definitely to provide something valuable to anyone who's watching or who's listening, and you know it took us a while and it is taking. It's a journey and it's a very exciting project. You would relate to it with the Good Listening 2 show. There's a lot of moving parts to it, but at the end of the day, the target is we really want to bring guests that are different, that people can learn from. People are more than their LinkedIn titles. People are more than LinkedIn titles. People are more than you know changing companies, but you don't know what happened in the background, what's the reason behind it, and so at the end of the day, even like you know, our tagline is learning, careers and more, because me and my partner we have a background in learning and development, we've been colleagues previously and so, yeah, it's an incredibly exciting project. The main goal is to benefit everyone and you know everything else is just a side bonus.

Speaker 1:

Honestly, and it's lovely that it's by Obitz Design. It's a collaboration because obviously you're two friends who've decided to partner up and do it and by all means, mention your wonderful partner in this wonderful collaboration.

Speaker 2:

Mr Khaled Khafagan. He is a learning and development and organizational development professional. By day, by night, he takes his two daughters to multiple volleyball trainings. I don't know how he does it, but he's got a lot going on his plate and, yeah, it's incredibly exciting to work alongside him in this project.

Speaker 1:

And, using the lovely metaphor of volleyball, I hope that Lbox is a complete slam dunk for you.

Speaker 2:

I don't think that's how it works.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so this is all about storytelling and, of course, the LinkedIn profile headlines of themselves are possibly the most dull story we can all tell, because it's just arm's length and transactional. So I love the fact that, like me, you're on a bit of a cut and thrust to help the world tell clearer, better stories, one story at a time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I think you can relate to it. When it comes to the area of learning, if I'm talking on the corporate side of things, there's a lot that can be done and there's a lot that needs improvement, and I think it's an incredibly exciting goal of continuous improvement. It doesn't end, and I think that's really important when you're setting your sight onto something big.

Speaker 1:

So I hope you really enjoy what I do too, which is the idea of coaching the story out of somebody by asking them. You know it's the power of the good question. So the clearing, which is where this is energetically set, is where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to get told. So it's a really sort of passionate epicenter to what we're about to curate you through. It's my great joy and privilege, ammar, just before we got going, because I mean it's really exciting, I'm talking to you from Bristol in the United Kingdom. You're speaking to me as I speak, from Cairo, this wonderful idea of being global heads of ourselves and the sort of cultural norms of what we refer to ourselves as being. Obviously, I can see your name as Mohamed Ibrahim Ammar. I asked you what all your friends call you and just now you said ah, that's actually a bit of a secret.

Speaker 2:

So do you want to say anything a bit more about that? It's, it's impossible, it's not gonna come out. It's I don't know what was going on in my in my brain when I was I don't know. It's I was 11 years old and I just came back from saudi to to egypt. I don't know what happened. It's just the name that that came up then and it stuck with me. Like even even my friends, moms, when we go and like for dinner or something, that's the name they call me by and it's like it's not even weird anymore. So I'm not gonna say the name. Oh, but what a teaser. You're not gonna say it. Yeah, maybe a cliffhanger, maybe at the end of our we need to get your friends, your friends, moms, to reveal what's Ammar really known as, because it's obviously affectionate.

Speaker 1:

They obviously hold you in great high regard and affection. Yeah, I'd like to think so, so I love the fact that it's not strange anymore, but you're not going to tell us, and maybe you will at the end.

Speaker 2:

It's really weird if someone who doesn't know me like it's a really weird name. But, and it's really weird if someone who doesn't know me like it's a really weird name, but then in context, when it's linked to me, like oh, it's Amar, his ex.

Speaker 1:

So I'm not going to spill it.

Speaker 1:

Well, we'll see how this goes. So it is my great delight and pleasure to curate you through this journey. You can go where you like, when you like, how you like, as deep as you like, amplify Lbox Learning like as deep as you like, amplify l box learning box as much as you like. And also I'm intrigued to find out more about what you're up to in your mantle as pwc l and d lead as well. So it's going to be a clearing a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called five, four, three, two, one. There'll be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of randoms, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton and a cake. So it's all to play for. It'll all become clear. But let's get you on the open road, first of all, energetically. Where is your serious happy place, ammar? Where is your clearing? Where do you go to get clutter free, inspirational and able to think?

Speaker 2:

inspirational and able to think. I think it's my place is quite tiring because my place is actually I call it on the running track, like I always go for a run when I want to think about something. Now, you said in the beginning I'm passionate about long distance running. I'm not, it's just, it's a weird relationship. But running has definitely, you know, been a big part of shaping kind of my mindset, my stance towards certain things, because it's an annoying activity. Let's just say it's an annoying activity. You're staying for two hours, 90 minutes, two and a half hours, just in constant motion. That's not comfortable.

Speaker 2:

So I'd say my, you know, uh, my go-to place would be running l box. Actually, the idea of it, uh, kind of, was, you know, going on a run, having that clear mind and thinking about it, and that's where it actually came. And then it got built on. But the initial, initial kind of trigger was on a run, uh. And so, yeah, I'd say, uh, that's the, that's my caring like on a running track and those like 10, 30 minutes after the run where you have all the endorphins and good feelings out and you're just clear.

Speaker 1:

I love the fact there's a sort of no pain, no gain dynamic to that. Also, it links to a lovely Nietzsche quote the best ideas happen outdoors and also it's the action towards in life that always brings about change. So I completely get it. I'd be terrible at running. I've tried, and I play tennis and do other stuff and I ride is my equivalent. My bike is my freedom. But how often are you going running then? Are you doing it on the daily or are you doing it?

Speaker 2:

So actually I became consistent with it since, let's say, feb, and there's an interesting story behind it. So back in Decembercember there's like an annual pyramids half marathon. That always happens, yeah, uh, and in that half marathon I wasn't prepared at all. I, I, you know, I just got in. Yeah, we're gonna do it, we're gonna run 21k and that's not enough apparently, when you, when you're a long distance, pattern is not enough and energy is not enough and actually I got beat in that race.

Speaker 2:

There was an interesting dynamic in running Everyone who's listening and running will get that which is in a run, if it's a long run, there's like 5,000 people. You're not competing with anyone. You're mainly competing with yourself, but you're not competing with anyone. But then every once in a while there comes a person where you just look at them they're not even looking and like I'm gonna challenge you, you know you're, you're next. And in that run it was.

Speaker 2:

It was a girl actually, and why am I saying it's a girl? Because it's going to be interesting what happens later on. She caught eye of of the kind of challenging dynamic, although we didn't look at each other, we didn't speak to each other, but I remember there was like a U-turn and I was like ahead by like 10 meters or something Like in that U-turn I was coming back, she was still coming forward and I just looked at her like you have no idea what you got yourself into. Like running is like I'm extremely competitive and I think running is a healthy outlet for that because I compete with myself. But you know, every once in a while comes comes a girl and at the pyramids, and like we kept going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and uh, and you know, she actually passed me in like kilometer number 15, 16, and she was like come on, go on, and now on, and now, oh no, now it's on.

Speaker 1:

It's lock and engage.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I wish I could have said that you know, for those last 6K I beat her, but actually kilometer number 17, I was gone. But that was like a trigger for, like I didn't prepare for the run at all, like I just ran like twice before that 21k or something like that, and I just kept thinking to myself, this individual male or female, I don't care honestly um, they probably have been training for quite a while until you know 70 of the race. I was actually keeping up and so I was like I was frustrated with myself. Like just imagine if you gave it 20% more in terms of training free, what could have happened?

Speaker 2:

I think running is just a big analogy, like an analogy on life, because you actually might have the ability, but if that ability is not backed up by preparation, it's not going to do you any good. And I think running is just a big analogy on that. And so I appreciate competition. I appreciate the fact that she looked at me and she said come on, let's go. It's like I admire that Honestly. I admire the person that's competing with you in a healthy way. That's always a big thing. And so, yeah, from December till Feb I went on another run in Feb. Uh, my strategy was all messed up. I finished the run, I went on search for some running coaches. I got a running coach, and so to answer your question, very, very long this is such a lovely answer.

Speaker 1:

I'm just loving the, the wisdom implicit in in life, the race of life. We are not competing. It is all about our own journey, our own path. 100. Love the analogies of that yeah, 100, like every.

Speaker 2:

I've been to four half marathons and I think the the like with half marathon number one and this is what everyone like needs to understand about running. You might think that running is hard because you're viewing it in a in a way, because running is not sprinting. By the way you can, you can walk faster than someone runs, so it's just you and your pace, like with with half marathon number one. I just wanted to finish and I was knackered after it. I was gone like in pain for three days that's such a brilliant English word knackered, You're fantastic.

Speaker 2:

You know I go into the dictionary every now and then. But yeah, and then run number two. I was like you know, I don't care what time I finish that, but I just don't want to feel horrible after the run which I did, and then run number three. It was let's just get a person at best and run number four. Let's just get a person at best, and so you're actually competing with yourself. Yes, and I think that's applicable to running as it is to life.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, it's also really profound that we know this comparison is the thief of happiness. So the fact that you know that you're just racing against yourself is a wonderful way to just wrap your life in a way that's calmer, kinder to yourself. So I hope that l box also becomes life box, because there's something much more profound than just learning. L box is also life box, the box in which we 100% compete against ourselves. And the other question I have to ask you is this person that you struck upon? Are they still in your life or are they just there?

Speaker 2:

as I don't know them, I have no idea who they are uh, it's also the power of influence.

Speaker 1:

I love the fact that that person is forever going to be indelibly locked as a moment of transition and change for you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like it was like, as you said, it's a run, but it's just so much more than that kind of interaction, because you have to run long distance to kind of get that feeling. What I'm saying it's like it's at the pyramid. So midway you're actually running in a desert and there's no one around you. You can stop, you can do whatever it is, and so that's the beautiful thing about running it's just you versus you, and you might be completely gone after 12K and you still have nine more to go. So just getting that kind of energy and telling yourself that, hey, yeah, I need to keep the same pace for the next hour. It's not easy at all. And so, yeah, it's just been a learning journey, honestly, like since then I've been running about three, four times per week with my coach. I've been learning a lot.

Speaker 1:

Does your coach run alongside you in that wonderful coaching way, or are they just watching and then giving you?

Speaker 2:

notes. Yeah, so so it's an online relationship type of thing, but he's definitely also a long distance runner. Shout out, put she here. Uh, he's a like he's one of the top ranked in egypt. Uh, he competes internationally as well and, yeah, I'm just learning loads from him. Like, uh, I've been perceiving it completely different, although I've been running for like three or four years, and so it's humbling, but it's needed and, yeah, it's, running is a big thing.

Speaker 1:

I can't tell you how romantic it sounds from from where I'm sitting in Bristol, to hear someone saying I ran the the pyramid. What did you call it? Running in Cairo past the pyramids? It sounds just. I mean I can run past the Pifton Suspension Bridge, which is nowhere near as iconic as the Pyramids of Giza.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's kind of surreal and I think with people in life you don't appreciate the value of something because it's always there. Like I live 10 minutes from the pyramids, I see them kind of every day. But you know, there comes a moment in the run where you're saying, wow, it's like 7.30 am, there's 5,000 people, I don't know, 80 different countries. It's the Pyramid Half Marathon. You know, the side view is the three pyramids.

Speaker 1:

It's something different and so, yeah, it's definitely you also sent me a wonderful photograph of you and Suleiman Jalal on horseback. Yeah, Two horses and the pyramids between you. It's two legends on horseback, but it's just, I mean honestly, from where I'm sat, it's just a wonderful, wonderful piece of imagery and a wonderful story that you're on the open road of. So thanks for that wonderfully eloquent the analogies that keep on giving a wonderful description of running and why it's so important to you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Thank you of course.

Speaker 1:

So your clearing then is let's go with at some scape running past the pyramids of Giza. Yeah, let's do it. In all my circa 200 episodes, no one's ever said that is their clearing. So it's very, very exciting. So now I'm going to arrive with a tree in your clearing and then I'm going to shake your tree. It's a bit, uh, waiting for goddo esk, which is existential. I'm going to shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out.

Speaker 1:

And this is where, um, you've had five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you. Am I we still need to get your nickname? Uh, three things that inspire you, two things that never failed to grab your attention and have you seen the film up as well? Yep, which is where the dog goes, oh, squirrels. So what are your monsters of distraction? And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know that you, until you tell us. So it's not a memory test. So over to you to shake the canopy. I did a bit of comedy, or fell off the table there. Yeah, shake the canopy of your tree as you see fit yeah, super.

Speaker 2:

so yeah, as I said, I did my homework. So I kind of like, till yesterday I I didn't have like an answer, like input that I was convinced of. Uh, and so you know what I did? I thought, you know, let's go for a run and think about it. That's honestly what I did, like I went for like 10 pm because I had to, and then I just took the chance to to just think about these kind of things, and so so I just go, I'd say, from the most impactful to I'm not going to go through it chronologically, rather the thing that sticks to me the most, number one by far. Not even there's no competition in India.

Speaker 2:

Like the experience of going to India, leading to it and during it, has been different. So I went there in 2017. Yeah, and a year before, a year and a half before, I was like 19. Still, I remember the scene.

Speaker 2:

My parents were at the balcony and I told them you know, there's an organization called ISIC. Isic is kind of an organization that deals with student exchange and I've been a member in it. I've been facilitating that part, and I thought to myself you know, I either go up the ranks or I go to the other side and travel, be one of those exchange students, and so I just uh, option number two appealed more to me, and so I came to my parents. I remember the scene. They were in the balcony. I told them you know, we're now in, in April 2016, in July 2017, I want to go and I want to travel for a month and a half. I still don't know where, but I'm definitely going to need your financial support to make that happen. So I just want to get you on board. I'm going to do my part. I just need to make sure that you know you can support me with it.

Speaker 2:

So you know we go all in, and my parents have I appreciate the fact on them that they don't give me anything in an easy way, as good or as bad as some people might perceive it, but they've always raised us to the notion of you have to earn it, or at least you have to showcase that you put in the effort to do it.

Speaker 2:

And so what I did? I finished second year of university. I worked for three months as a travel consultant an online travel consultant and then I didn't save up enough money, so I had to work part time with university and, again, I'm extremely competitive, so I just had to excel at both in my mind and so that part of life where you go on a shift from 12 to 6 and then you have classes starting at 8. So you have breakfast in between and all of that like, looking back at it, it's one of the the best periods of my life. During it it was horrible, but uh, but yeah, and so I think that whole process was was very, uh, full of learning about myself and the capacity that that you can go with.

Speaker 1:

And I love your parental philosophy about earning it. So in life, nothing's given to you for free. You need to earn it, and that's a very clear philosophy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%. And you know what's funny, by the time I had to apply and I had to buy the flight tickets and all of that, egypt just went through kind of a devaluation kind of economical thing, and so all of the money that I saved, let's say it equaled 10 US dollars Suddenly overnight it became two or became three, and so I told my parents, like I told them, I'll get 50% of the money, I'll just need the other 50%. At that time I didn't even have like 30% of the money, but they still, you know know, fully sponsored it, if you want to call it that way, because again they saw you put in the effort. Yeah, yeah, you know you deserve it. So that's been pre-India, india itself.

Speaker 1:

Um that's such a good mantra. You put in the effort, you deserve it. I think that's fantastic.

Speaker 2:

Yes yeah, it's like that's. Yeah, it's something that we've all been raised on um I have siblings as well am I? I have three sisters. One I'm an uncle, so I have an older sister and then two younger ones one of my favorite checkoff plays is the three sisters.

Speaker 1:

So you just fired up all sorts of theatrical finances in my brain, sorry, back to your three sisters yeah, uh.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, three sisters, uh, but yeah, other other than that, back to india sorry because yeah, because there's there's like a lot of interesting dynamics, as you, as you have with three three just have to ask you are you the?

Speaker 1:

where do you fit in the in the four children I'm?

Speaker 2:

in the middle of the pack, so I have one older than me and then two younger than me. Yeah, um, and so I'm just, you know, I pause for a bit because there's a lot of interesting dynamics, a lot of changes in our family. One of them is working, one of them just became a mother, one of them just got out of high school. So it's, it's, yeah, life besides life, um, but yeah, so, uh, we've all been raised in that way and I think, when, when, when india came, uh, none of my parents were, uh, you know, they didn't see the value behind it. Honestly, and that's fine, yani, it's very rare to find people or parents where you're telling them your child is going for a month and a half in India and he's not been outside the country since you just came from Saudi, so this is like the first solo trip. But anyways, I was excited for it.

Speaker 2:

India, I was going for a volunteering project. It was teaching underprivileged children, if you can say that, and two things happened. First of all, the project was supposed to go for six weeks. It just went on for 10 days, okay, in a good way, and it just got canceled midway and so, but I think those 10 days were kind of enough to make me see things that have incredibly been impactful, an incredible sense of inequality that I've seen.

Speaker 2:

And again, by the way, if you want to call India a third world country, egypt is also a third world country, so I'm not throwing shit at anyone and I've seen in India what I've seen in Egypt, but it's I don't know, it's different when you see it in a different context, in an international context, and so that kind of I don't know left a mark in me till now where I said you know what I want to work in, kind of that field, that space, because I think there's a lot of work that can be done. And again, it's a problem that's not going to be fixed in any of our lifetimes.

Speaker 1:

It's something that's continually growing, but hopefully you can build a base that someone can then build on it, and so, yeah, you have a profound lens on perspective as well there, because you described the devaluation of the Egyptian currency before you went, and then the perspective with then describing somebody else has been underprivileged in that moment.

Speaker 2:

So it's a wonderful lesson perspective and, at the end of the day, I think, like all of us you know it's me and you speaking we're like the top 10% of the world, like you know, in terms of a lot of things that you might take for granted. So I think just that perspective is really important to take into consideration. A good thing about what happened in India after 10 days is that I got to travel a lot more in the country. So I spent six weeks, but I went to nine cities in those six weeks. So instead of traveling on weekends, every two days I was in a different city.

Speaker 1:

And was that a spontaneous itinerary based on you suddenly got given time back to you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. So what happens with Isaac is that you're kind of a group of people that you get to meet and you know, if you click, you click and you travel together and all of that. And it was like something that we all agreed on. Like I remember one instance where we're at a hostel and we're like kind of sitting in the main room and we're saying you know, we want to go to Kerala, we want to go like cities in India, like some guy in the background, you know what, I have a house in I don't know, masuria, rishikesh, something like that. It's like one of those Indian millionaires that's, I don't know, has been right place, right time. So, yeah, I have a cabinet in the woods that's by the river and you can join me and pay nothing. 48 hours later I went with him, we all went with him. He's now like he's a very dear friend of mine, he's called Manoj and so, yeah, we traveled together then and since then he's been with us and so I think that kind of exposure, I think different parts of India like anyone who's been to India knows India is huge.

Speaker 2:

People go three, four times in their lifetimes just to finish a portion of it, and I've kind of seen that. I've kind of seen the highs of the highs and the lows of the lows. Having that mixed with a group of people from Spain, greece, mauritius, slovakia, all of that it just adds layers and layers and layers to the experience. Yes, and so by far. Like, when I came back from India, it impacted the major that I wanted to go in university, it impacted the kind of career that I'm looking into, because I said education and then I thought what's the closest thing to education in a corporate perspective? It's learning and development. So yeah, india by far is number one, without any comparison.

Speaker 1:

It's a seismic depth of personal self-awareness and realization which brings you on your journey to now. It's wonderfully informative as to why you stand where you do now, on the cusp of Lbox and and its launch. Yeah, wonderful shapeages so far. Any other shapeages you'd like to do before we get on to influencers?

Speaker 2:

uh, I think, uh, definitely the Saudi experience. Like, I spent a few years in Saudi when I was younger. My father used to work there again. It just added the sense of appreciating culture and appreciating diversity. There are a few things that you take into for granted, such as English. Like you know, just to be fluent in another language is not easy. So if I'm speaking English now, it's because of Saudi and all of my teachers were non-Arabic speakers and so, yeah, saudi has been big.

Speaker 2:

Running we definitely talked about running a lot. Running is. It's an annoying practice, but I think it's needed. I think you know the idea of therapy. It's you have to spend time with yourself. Like you know the answers. It's just about asking the right questions, and to ask the right questions it takes a bit of time. So, I think, definitely running and, last but not least, I think definitely the year 2021.

Speaker 2:

The year 2021, my ex-company was called Raya and it's been. You know, I think it was the start of COVID or like mid-COVID. So I think 2021 just has been like an awful year, if I want to call it that way. Like all of our family no exclusions got COVID and, as you know, that puts a little pressure on taking care of your mom, of your father, of your sisters and so on. But then there's work and there's life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think also on a family level there's been like a lot of changes. You know Egypt, every other day they were doing some new changes when it comes to a new decision and that decision has impacts and and so it's just been an awfully difficult year and it's been kind of the first year at work where I kind of was given the responsibility to lead the corporate lens of lmd and that my previous company had 12 lines of businesses, 12,000 employees and at 24, that was, you know, an exposure that really made a difference. And looking back at it, it's yeah, it's been a really unique year, a test of resilience at its core but been a really unique year, I think.

Speaker 2:

A test of resilience at the very core, but also a land of opportunity 100% 100%, like I figured out upon reflecting on it after it was done, that I don't get the best out of me unless it's very challenging. Like I remember there was a particular instance in that year where we had like a community learning and development call with all of our lines of businesses and we had to share with them what's in plan for next year and so on, and by that time we haven't started anything. That was June, that was six months of the year, and I remember, like I told them in that call and one of my biggest regrets is that I didn't record that call I told them, believe me, we're're gonna have the same call at the end of the year and it's gonna be the best year for lnd historically in the company. And you're gonna see, because everyone was kind of like we haven't started this, where is that? Where is that? It happened eventually and so I kind of wanted to to uh, to show them. You know it's the final meeting of the year.

Speaker 2:

Let's start with a video.

Speaker 1:

But it didn't quite happen. But you've said it now and it's there on record, because obviously we're here talking through a PwC lens as well Fantastic.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%. And also I think it's always important to give credit to people and I think in that year a lot of people helped with kind of how the year turned out to be, because, as you can imagine, chris, when someone is not performing because a lot of stuff is happening in their personal life when it comes to work, you still have to get work done, but then it requires a lot of patience and a lot of empathy to just wait it out, because they believe in you. I think three people I also have to mention them Hazem Abdelhadi and Sundus Arafa and Mirna Ibrahim. I mentioned them Hazem Abdelhadi and Sundus Arafa and Mirna Ibrahim.

Speaker 2:

You know if you can recite these three names. I'll say my nickname. I am recording it, so I'll go back and I'll tell you Just run them past me again. Yeah, hazem Abdelhadi, sundus Arafa and Mirna Ibrahim. They were, like you know, the people I worked with and the leadership I worked with, and to this day, we maintain a very close relationship, although I left the company almost two years ago, because the respect is always there and the appreciation is always there, and so if I mention 2021, I also have to mention them as well.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful You're. A wonderful testament to what's meant for you won't pass you by. You know being in the right place at the right time to, and then when you, when you said a couple of paragraphs, I only get the best out of myself when I'm under extreme pressure. That plays into your running discipline, the pain gain ratio. Yeah, wonderfully wise stuff. Okay, now we're on to um. If there's any overlap, don't worry, but three things that inspire you.

Speaker 2:

Three things that inspire me. Look, I'm not going to get political, but I have to mention I hope that's okay I think, with everything that's happening around the world right now, everything that's happening in Palestine and all of that, I think people are always inspirational Resilience you might think you're strong because of the experiences you went through, but I always think there's layers to it that you can't possibly imagine. I think, just, we're at a time where we get visibility and accessibility to things that we normally wouldn't have had the chance to. I think, definitely everything that's happening with Palestine. I just related back to myself how can I help? And it all feeds into that sense of education which is, yeah, I really need to speed up, you know having an impact in education, because then, if I do that, the situation might get better, these people might benefit from it and all of that stuff wouldn't be happening. So I think, definitely the story of Gaza and Palestine and all of that it's inspiring.

Speaker 2:

The two other things and in no way are they I'm not ranking, ranking them, but I'd have to say two and three are my parents 100, like in egypt. Here's the thing in egypt. There's there's cairo, there's the capital city and then there's a lot of governorates around it. The countryside, yeah. And so, if I speak, my father, for example, my father went from a countryside, a country called the Minya, and then, like every day, he keeps telling me stories.

Speaker 2:

Like I don't know, I went to Jordan. Like last year he told me, yeah, I went there and I spent like a year and a half and I was like I didn't know that. He went to Libya, he went to Saudi and all of that. I think he just took a leap of kind of I don't want to call it progression, but he did something different at a time in the 70s and the 60s, where that wasn't the norm. In the 70s and 60s. It was like keep, elon musk, it's just, you know it's. It's incredibly difficult, incredibly, because not a lot of people around you are doing it, and so when you're kind of taking that forward, I'm inspired by that. I haven't, I don't, I don't tell them that honestly, I should change that.

Speaker 1:

But uh, yeah, my father I was going to say that that's a wonderful opportunity to just tell him that, because it sounds like he's always kept surprising you, yeah, a hundred percent, it's, um, it's.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, he he's just seeing things in a different perspective and and as we said, like by now you know that they're incredibly supportive of, of kind of the rationale and the mindset that I might come and tell them, you know, I'm gonna quit work today. By now they know if I come and say that then I have a plan, because I've proven it time and time again. So I think I that support is support mixed with, uh, I'm not going to say worriness, but the care is always appreciated and it's not there.

Speaker 1:

Again, that might be something I'm taking for granted you should keep hold of the moniker Ammar, I have a plan. That I have a plan is a great mantra for you. Oh, I have a plan, yeah, it's a just wait.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to tell you, it's going to be clear in a few months and definitely my mother, like my mother again, changing countries going to a different, like transitioning from Cairo to Saudi and all of that. Like our generation generally in Egypt my father's generation there's been a lot of kind of immigration to the Gulf, similar to what's happening now, by the way. But the difference now is the Gulf is definitely more open internationally, but before that it was everyone going to Saudi, everyone. Even the UAE wasn't a thing back then. So I think the kind of care and the kind of attention and perspective that she always provided is not there.

Speaker 2:

She's a brilliant business individual, like before settling down and being a housewife and all of that. She used to have her own career and even after that she used to have her kind of own business. And every time when, when we were talking and she used to tell me you know, I'm thinking about making this item cost that much because of x, y and z, I'm telling her no, let's look at the market and let's see how things are. She's telling me you know, I actually did. I actually walked down the street and I saw everything that's around us and that's how I came to that conclusion and at the end her assumption always works out, and so I think she's always had that kind of commercial sense besides being a mother, and yeah, definitely she's done wonders being a mother. And um, and yeah, definitely that she's done wonders.

Speaker 1:

And you you've mentioned a lot of geography and place names where your mom, your dad and where you've been. Um, can I just ask you a slightly curious question in terms of your geography? Do you feel in the right place at the right time, doing the right thing, or do you have ambitions and plans to go a bit elsewhere?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, um. So so here's the thing, the thing like. For me, it's all about learning and and context. So if, if, if, I see myself learning in the current context, in in egypt and where I'm at, I'm gonna stay here. With that being said, I know the kind of things that I want to do. Not necessarily egypt is going to be the best kind of takeoff point for it. Yeah, it's definitely other places, and so that's always been and that always will be on the radar.

Speaker 2:

I have no problem. Yeah, it's difficult, but I have no problem relocating, doing all of that. Again, I'm young and maybe in five years, when I have a family and all of that, it would change. But, um, but I think when, when there's like a stark, clear aim that you're aiming thing that you're aiming for, um, everything else kind of becomes, you know, a fair cost. Let's call it that way. So I don't right now, I think I'm in in the right place in life, but if you're asking me, how do you see the next two years happening? I think there's definitely a lot of healthy changes that need to happen. Wonderful.

Speaker 1:

This is a springboard to anything is possible.

Speaker 2:

You never know.

Speaker 1:

Two things that never fail to oh squirrels, what never failed to grab your attention, irrespective of anything else that's going on for you in your very eclectic and hectic life I think, um, what I'm gonna say is gonna make sense given the context.

Speaker 2:

Number one is challenge. If there's something challenging, it's like let's go. Uh, because, like I've been in it, by the way, like I've been in an interview, I'm gonna go sidetrack a bit. I've been in an interview before before where the interviewer was asking me you know, tell me, mohamed, tell me about the time where you lost. I told her I don't lose. And she was speaking in English, all of like for 45 minutes and then she like switched to Arabic because she was like what do you mean you don't lose? I was like what do you mean you don't lose? I was like I either win, or I told her as cliche as it may sound, I either win or either learn. Because that's it as cliche I I honestly. That's how I see things. I either win or I either learn. I see myself as a fair competitor. Uh, you know, just let's level the playing field and then let's talk. So I think a challenge is always something that I'm drawn to, because it just brings a different part of my personality to it.

Speaker 1:

What a great squirrel. I win or I learn. I love that.

Speaker 2:

We're getting onto quotes later on, but that was great, second squirrel, second squirrel, I think, an inspiring vision or a goal. I think, since 2017, I don't want to exaggerate, but I don't want to say every single day I wake up with the idea of all right, where am I towards the path of education and making an impact? Maybe every other day, I don't know, but, but I think that's it's always been there, and I'm always drawn to people who have a certain passion towards something that they see clearly and that is concrete. And when I say concrete, not a lot of people have have, you know, valid reasons for doing what they're doing. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna do this and this and let's see how it goes. No, this is not, no, wait.

Speaker 2:

Like, like spontaneity if that's the word being spontaneous, uh, is useful, as long as it's kind of a certain realm where you you think it's going to lead in a certain direction. But in no way possible am I going to say you know, I'm working today, I'm I'm going to be a diving instructor, because I think diving and interacting with fish is similar to interacting with human beings, and so that's, that's something that I want to do. No like, do be spontaneous, but in a certain area around it and I think a lot of people, they, they have a certain vision towards something, that because they're necessarily passionate about it. And there's like an analogy I always like to say, which is choosing what you want to focus on is like, in ways, it's like choosing a wife. Yeah, I don't have a wife, so maybe I will figure it out if that's true or not. Yeah, yeah, I don't have a wife, so maybe I will figure it out if that's true or not.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but, like, I think a big deal of choosing what you want to work on is because you choose to, not because you necessarily love it or passionate about it. It's because there's that sense of I'm ready now, let's go for it. This is a worthwhile thing. And I think to marriage, you find a partner that, yeah, ideally, love is there and all of that, but there are a lot of things that are in that individual that blend well with you. So it's a choice, so it's a feeling, but it's definitely a choice. I think, yeah, choosing a vision, choosing a goal, finding someone that has clarity on all of these things is very rare Spontaneity, but and yet with structure.

Speaker 1:

Structure, yeah. That plays very well into my love of I do a lot of comedy, improvisation, with that mindset of yes and yes and yes and, but it's still. It's very creative, but with structure, yeah, 100%. And now the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you, Amar. We couldn't possibly know about you until you told us.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. We just said spontaneity. But outside of work, if you come up to me and you tell me something that's spontaneous and a certain I don't know how to say it I've been thinking about the question for a while. That's a good question. The whole structure is amazing. But I've been thinking about it. I'm extremely spontaneous, to a degree that might be irresponsible for some people, but for me it really doesn't matter.

Speaker 2:

Like I was, I was traveling like a mini euro trip. Like two years ago now, speaking with my friend, I was telling her you know, skydiving looks like a really interesting activity to go in. And she was like, yeah, I know the Czech has the cheapest skydive options. Just Google it. 30 minutes later I found myself booking a slot in Sevilla, spain, for a skydive. So I had to go to Sevilla, spain, and the guy was the tandem skydiver that was with me. I signed like 100 waivers of saying like if I die it's okay, if I die it's fine. So like I had to put on a helmet and then he's. I was telling him that I need to put it on. He told me no, no, you're gonna. I remember he was, I don't know he's portuguese, you're gonna look ugly in the pictures and I'm like, yeah, yeah, of course, let me die, but I'll die looking good, you look good. Yes, yeah, so I think I'm. I love spontaneity. It's uh, but in a certain context of traveling and and experiments in life like.

Speaker 2:

Another example was like a friend of mine called me just last year, in in March. He was telling me it was Monday, 8 pm. He was telling me what are you doing? On Wednesday? I was telling him nothing and then he told me you know, I have everything figured out. Let's go to Lebanon. Lebanon is yeah, let's go, and I love the idea of let's just go. In 48 hours we're going to be someplace else. I told him yeah, give me. Like, I'll get back to you tomorrow morning. 30 minutes later I just texted him on WhatsApp like let's go and and even like you know, taz, I had a.

Speaker 2:

I had a call with Taz in the first day when I arrived in Lebanon and we had a meeting with someone else and that individual. We logged in a bit earlier than Taz and he was telling me yeah, so where are you located? I was like, thought to myself, that's an interesting question. Told him in Lebanon. I, I'm from Egypt, but I'm in Lebanon and when Taz came in, taz didn't know that I was traveling anywhere. Yeah, and it's amazing, pwc, you're in Dubai, he's in Lebanon, and Taz was like he's in Lebanon. What's he doing?

Speaker 1:

there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I think continuity I might seem very logical, I might seem like everything has to go by plan, but something that people might not realize is that just come up with with something crazy, reasonably, if that makes sense, because skydiving is not reasonable and, and you know, working a day and spending a week in another country might not be as reasonable for a lot of people but trusting your instinct of yes, let's do it.

Speaker 1:

If it sounds like it makes sense, yes, let's do it. It also plays beautifully like it makes sense, yes, let's do it. It also plays beautifully into that comfort. Risk, panic, those three concentric circles. You're not comfortable just being comfortable and sedentary, you've got to be risking.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%. It's like, yeah, and you're living it. You're not going to be in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. Every age has a certain benefit of doing activities in it and so if you have the opportunity to do it, just do it. My father doesn't know to this day that I went skydiving, because I can't tell him. He was like before I travel. He said Mohammed, don't do anything, that's not responsible. And while the plane door was opening I remembered him. I was like, yeah, this is not responsible.

Speaker 1:

So there's a lovely joke about skydiving being the ultimate commitment, because once you've jumped out on balance, it's quite difficult to get back in again. So you've got to be sure that you've committed.

Speaker 1:

We have shaken your tree majestically Fantastic. Now we stay in your clearing, which is in your wonderful running scape of the marathons of life, when you're only competing with yourself and now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold, which, by the way, you've been giving me by the bucket load anyway but when you're at purpose and in flow, amar, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Speaker 2:

yeah, uh, an interesting question as well. I think I'm always drawn to solving problems, but looking at them from a bigger picture. So, even if in a very micro scale of work, if we're designing a program, so what does that entail? What do we have to take into consideration? What sort of alignments do we need to get? What's the audio? I mean, it's a lot of things.

Speaker 2:

When I'm mentally stimulated, I feel at best like I'm going to get sidetracked. I'm not going to do that. But I feel at best when I'm mentally stimulated and I think, even when you relate that to the kind of track that eventually I want to go on, which is education, education is just absolutely terrible. Like when I tell you, when I ask you, what's quality in education, you might think quality in content, accessibility, instruction, a lot of things, technology, that's not there. And so I think I'm at my best when I, when I have a situation, I have to think about how to best improve it and ideally achieve a certain result in a micro scale that may be at work. In a macro scale, I'm always drawn to the kind of big I was going to say micro, macro, because it's a micro problem, but with a macro lens.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um, somebody I interviewed recently rather profoundly he's an american chap called stan slap talked about huge problem solving. But he just puts he has a 25 foot brainstorming board with an equal sign that he does, and then he just puts the micro thing that we're solving and then all the equation goes on the left hand side of the equal sign. So it's just quite a nice metaphor for micro macro problem solving 100%. Wonderful alchemy in gold. And now I'm going to award you with a cake quite a nice metaphor for micro macro problem solving A hundred percent. Yeah, um, wonderful alchemy and gold. And now I'm going to award you with a cake.

Speaker 2:

So, um, yes, I don't know if you like cake, amar, would you say you do?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Carrot cake is um in fact that is a bit of a dog's toy character. That's most like. So now you get to put a cherry on the cake and this is stuff like now. It's a suffused with storytelling metaphor, as the whole show is. But um, what's a favorite inspirational quote that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future?

Speaker 2:

I don't know if it's. I don't know if it's my favorite quote or not, but and for some reason it's the code that just sticks with me. I don't know why that's not it.

Speaker 1:

I don't know why.

Speaker 2:

No, no, wait. From now you've kind of seen a pattern where my initial job at RIO had a profound impact because of the people mainly. One of them was my manager and she always had a quote of aspire to inspire before you expire, something like that. It's not necessarily my favorite quote, but nobody's ever said that.

Speaker 1:

I remember say it again. No one's ever said that I love it immediately.

Speaker 2:

Yeah so aspire to inspire before you expire. Yeah, that's the one that dropped the mic. Thanks for coming. That's all. That's all we need brilliant quote.

Speaker 1:

Uh, now, uh, what's the best piece of advice you have ever been given, amar?

Speaker 2:

pick your battles. It's, uh, you might. Yeah, I think, with, with every single person. You see a lot of things that you want to work on. They see a lot of issues that you want to be a part of and resolve, but it's very important to choose wisely. Where do you invest your energy, where do you invest your focus? And, yeah, I'd say, pick your battles in corporate in life. That's a strong one, yeah.

Speaker 1:

With the gift of hindsight, just say how old you are today, with everything in front of you. How old are you today? How old do you think I am? Well, because you're mentioning well, just um, I'm thinking 28, but I don't know yeah, it's 28, spot on, yeah, oh yeah, phew. So with the gift of hindsight, yeah, what notes, help or advice might you offer to a younger version of yourself?

Speaker 2:

um, I'll tell a story, and I'll possibly I don't, because I know how. I don't know how to format that advice, but since india, since 2017 up to 2022 um, I've always had that india experience as the number one. Nothing comes close to it, and so I've disregarded opportunities and experiences that from outside. For me, you know, it's not as big as India, so I'm not going to go for it, and that led to a lot of things that I could have been a part of, but I haven't necessarily been. So that's something that you know. An experience is great, but just go and find out, just go and be indulged in different things. That's something.

Speaker 2:

And the other thing I would say that's a bit related to it, which is I've always said that after I graduate, I'm going to take a year off and I'm going to go and volunteer and become an English teacher and actually last year I was, I was about to do it and go to Vietnam and a lot of things, but because that goal was always there, I didn't again maximize the current situation that I have. So I've always been thinking about, you know, the travel and Asia and all of that. Meanwhile, I could have done a lot of things. That box could have been life two years ago, you know, but because I was like I'll travel first and then I'll build my life.

Speaker 2:

No that's something. So yeah, to summarize, I think just it's cliche be in the moment.

Speaker 1:

if that makes sense, I don't like to say it but just try to be fully aware of the context and make the best use of it. Lovely answer, and we're ramping up to Shakespeare. Finally, in a moment to talk about legacy and how you'd most like to be remembered, but just before we get there, this is the pass. The golden baton moment, please. So now you've experienced this from within, who would you most like to?

Speaker 2:

pass the golden baton along to in order to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going. Yeah, I've had some time to think about it. It's Mo Ash. So Mo I'd like to call him a friend has been someone that's been extremely inspiring to look at his story, transitioning from corporate doing his own thing and actually doing it with a different lens and with a different taste and quality. That's really important. Moash has a lot to bring. People have a lot to learn from him. He definitely has. He can share a lot and if he can come on the show, that would be amazing. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

And now inspired by Shakespeare and all the world's stage and all the men and women, merely players. This is the seven ages of man's speech from the play uh, well, it anyway. It is how, when all is said and done, amar, would you most like to be remembered?

Speaker 2:

yeah, that's something that I've actually been incorporating. When I introduce myself to someone, like if it's an interview type of thing, I don't like to say I work at PwC. No, I say I like to travel and I run, and I always say, by the time everything is said and done, I'll be one of the top influencers in education in history, meaning that when I'm gone and you Google who are the top, call it. I developed a new theory. Call it. I helped increase the quality in education. I leveled the playing field. But it's not a thing of I want my name to be seen. No, not at all. But for that to happen, that means that I must have done a lot of work. So that's the thing that I want to be remembered by I've done a lot of work in. That's the thing that I want to be remembered by.

Speaker 1:

I've done a lot of work in that space, and hopefully people come, come and build on it and will people be able to google you by your nickname as well, am I?

Speaker 2:

yes, but it's not gonna be. I see you there. I see you there is it gonna come? Or not? Probably not. If I come to the UK and you say you're in Bristol, I think Bristol. You said it's 100 kilometers east, west of London, west of London, yeah, if we come and no filters and no cameras are involved, I'll tell you.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful. Thank you so much for gifting us with your presence here in the Good Listening To show. Where can we find out all about you and lbox on the internet or and or on linkedin so actually the platform most active on is linkedin.

Speaker 2:

So on linkedin you can find me as muhammad ibrahim hamar very rare that you find someone just adding their three names, but because there's a lot of muhammad ibrahims, so muhammad ibrahim ammar, the box. We just launched episode number one with the talented Mr Ahmed Safina last Sunday. In about less than two weeks we're going to launch episode number two and then that's going to carry on. Every two weeks there's a new episode. You can find the box on Instagram, on LinkedIn, as Lbox, and it stands for the learning box. So, yeah, give us a follow. It's um, it's an interesting project and if you're there from that, from the get-go, it's uh, it's going to be different and just to check my understanding, I think at some point you're going to interview me, is that right?

Speaker 1:

I can't. Yes, of course yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

So so definitely, here's the thing, like with that box initially, with with season one. We're always drawn to the idea of how different experiences, or I'd say different backgrounds, shape who you are today, and so I'm quoting you being a motivational comedian, an actor plus entrepreneur, plus plus trainer. That all you know, comes in a way into the good listening to show or second curve, or or so I think you're definitely kind of. If we were to draw out a person that with certain characteristics, it would be you. So, yeah, we're definitely going to have that at some point.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful as this has been your moment in the sunshine in the Good Listening 2 show, Stories of Distinction and Genius Brandstrand Founder Stories. Is there anything else you'd like to say, Amal?

Speaker 2:

No, I think, just a big thank you to you. I think that the structure of the show, the kind of flow and we've talked about this a bit the branding of it and how it's positioned, the kind of guests that you're bringing on board, is different. I learned a lot from you. Honestly, the website is spot on, plus, plus, plus. So, yeah, just a big thank you for for giving me the opportunity and, uh, and I'm looking forward to, to the next guests wonderful.

Speaker 1:

Thank you reciprocally, uh to you, and thank you for the mention. Uh, check out the good listening to showcom website. It's just relaunched live live again as of yesterday, lots of explaining videos as to how you too can get involved if you'd like to be my guest. But thank you for watching on linkedin if you have been too. This has been the wonderful amr muhammad ibrahim, with a nickname yet to be discovered, and so anything else you'd like to say thank you. Thank you, chris. You've been listening to the good listening to show with me, chris grimes. If you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how care of the series strands at the goodlisteningtoshowcom website, and one of these series strands is called Good Books.

Speaker 1:

If you've always wanted to write your autobiography but have always got a bit stuck, then maybe good books and the good listening to show can help. Using the unique structure of the show, with me, chris grimes, as your host. Together we can take a trip down memory lane as we record the five, four, three, two, one of your life story, all set in the clearing or serious happy place of your choice. So, yes, get in touch if you'd like some help in writing your very own good book in the form of your autobiography the story behind the story of being you. Tune in next week for more stories from the Clearing and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts. So, ammar, I've just taken you and curated you through this story scape and structure. What if I can get your immediate feedback on what it's like to be in this show? How does it feel to be on the receiving end of it?

Speaker 2:

um, I think, first of all, it's incredibly exciting because, um, a lot of people don't get the opportunity to share the story behind the story, and I think that's incredibly impactful and so, yeah, just giving that platform for people to share, kind of their learning is incredibly useful. And, besides that, everything is very structured, everything is very clear. The fact that the show has a concrete structure in place just makes it easier for the guests to look at the briefing video, look at previous episodes and everything is quite clear, and so it's just a light kind of as you said, 45, 55 minutes an hour of just casual conversation. And so, yeah, those are kind of my immediate thoughts. It's light, it's fun and it's a great platform.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for that, and also right back at you when you listen to your episode, although it's a casual conversation, you've delivered seismic depth of self-awareness, which I was incredibly impressed with, and I hope it serves you really well. What we've just done together as well. I loved it, hopefully, and it's a pleasure working with you at all points that I do, of course.