The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Stories of Distinction: Ita O'Brien, Pioneering Intimacy Co-Ordinator for Film, TV & Theatre on Providing a Safe-Space and 'Play-Pen' for Actors & Directors to Explore Intimacy on Set & Storytell in Complete Safety

August 15, 2024 • Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

Share episode

Send us a text

What if you could create safer, more respectful environments for actors during intimate scenes? Join us as we sit down with the extraordinary Ita O'Brien, a trailblazer in intimacy coordination for film, TV, and theatre. Hear Ita speak about the critical need for clear communication and consent, and how her work has transformed the industry, earning accolades like Michaela Coel's heartfelt acknowledgment during her BAFTA acceptance speech.

But that’s not all—this episode takes a personal turn into Ita's life and inspirations. From the serene beauty of her wildflower meadow in Sissinghurst to the disciplined grace instilled by her early ballet teacher Madeleine Sharp, Ita reflects on the moments and mentors that have fueled her passion. Dive deeper into her fascinating Irish heritage, summers on her family's farm in Cookstown, and how these experiences enriched her understanding of life and storytelling.

We wrap up with a conversation that blends science and artistry, exploring the connections between embryonic development and creative expression. Discover how Ita's unique perspective, shaped by her experiences with dyslexia, enhances her kinesthetic understanding of the world. This episode is a heartfelt celebration of gratitude, the power of storytelling, and the joy of enabling creativity in film production. Don't miss this enriching exchange with a true industry pioneer.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes. The storytelling show that features the Clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, are you sitting comfortably? Then we shall begin and begin we will. It's a very exciting day in the Good Listening To Show Stories of Distinction and Genius, because this show could have been crafted in your honour.

Speaker 1:

This is Eta O'Brien, who is an intimacy on set coordinator. That's your website too intimacyonsetcom. You're a British movement director. I know you know who you are, but I'm just blowing a bit of happy smoke at you A British movement director and intimacy coordinator for film, tv and theatre. Just last week you've been in the same rehearsal room with Benedict Cumberbatch and Olivia Colman. So yes, you're there, having worked for Amazon, bbc, hbo, netflix. You've got going in crafting the movement to save actors from the hashtag awkwardness of how to go about being intimate on set. So you're very, very welcome, ita. You can tell us in your own words, if someone asks you that clunky question, oh hello, what do you do? Just tell us what you've done on the open road of helping actors and being an essential component on sets of the world.

Speaker 2:

So first of all, thank you, chris. Thank you for that amazing introduction and it's an absolute pleasure to be here and I look forward to this conversation. So what I say, that we do is intimacy coordinators, and the role of the intimacy on set guidelines brings a professional process when creating intimate content in the creative industry, be it in live performance, tv or film.

Speaker 1:

You were credited by an actress called Michaela Cowell, who thanked you when she was receiving her Best Actress BAFTA in 2021, saying thank you for your existence in our industry, for the making the space safe at last for physical and professional boundaries, so that they can do the work that they're there to do without it being totally awkward, Even in my own career.

Speaker 1:

We trained at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School. When we met a few months ago and it was Fiona Francombe at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School mentioned you and I thought, gosh, what an interesting guest to have in the show to talk about intimacy on set. And we have the Central School of Speech and Drama in common as well. So, yes, as I said, I had my own very awkward time once upon a time on set where it was just left as a bit of an afterthought and I was being straddled at the time by Sean Bean's soon-to-be ex-wife, Georgina Sutcliffe. It was very well intended, but it was so based on trust and just awkward hope. This is okay. So that's what's so incredibly important about the work that you do this is.

Speaker 2:

It has been completely mad that, um, you know there's a brilliant dance, you're gonna have a choreographer. You want a brilliant fight, you're gonna have a fight director in theater or live performance or a stunt coordinator in tv and film. That brings skills, that supports everybody to work creatively to create the best product, but also in that, to create the best product, but also in that process to create the best physical storytelling. And the madness was that before my development of the work, it was happening across the globe and other places. But just lifting the lid and going, this is a body dance, the same as the brilliant tango, the same as a really exciting fight. How could you do Fight Club without someone choreographing those amazing fights? How could tom cruise do those amazing stunts of dropping down from a helicopter and running across roofs and without someone conceiving it, the producers hearing the director's vision, connecting with the stunt coordinator, listening to what's wanted, all that preparation put in place, skills taught to the actor. So if they don't know how to do a brilliant fight, if they haven't got the techniques, well, if you and I both going to Bristol, they're marvellous. John Howell, deep joy, deep joy, teaching us stage combat techniques. So I absolutely love him. He's the most marvellous human being, let alone an inspiring teacher. You're teaching all of those skills. And then all of that preparation, all of that rehearsal, all of that checking out with the actor. So if an actor's going great, I'm happy for my character to be told that he's being dangled from a rope from a helicopter and dropping onto a roof great, but I'm afraid of heights. So guess what? You're going to get a stunt performer in to do that bit for you.

Speaker 2:

All of that consideration is was there, and it's exactly the same for the intimate content. And there was a void of that awareness. And for me there was a few things. One, people were embarrassed and people still are embarrassed fundamentally in their lives to talk openly and clearly about the intimate content, and rightly so, because also the core of your loving relationship should be for you and your loved one and it should be a private thing. So that was all confused there. And then, two, without a professional process by which you can talk about it professionally. So many directors would say to me well, I felt really awkward about it, because if I start talking in detail about what I want, then I feel like I was a pervert or the weird one because there wasn't a forum. And then the third thing was that there was a lack of awareness that of course you know that someone needs to be taught skills to either dance, teach someone techniques, and that was a void. Also that then the fallout from that when it's not done well, as you're saying that's awkward comes from the fact that when someone is touched in a way that's not suitable for them, when they're asked to be naked in a way that's not suitable for them, or asked to perform degrees of intimate and sexual content in a way that's not suitable for them, that's outside their boundaries, that that causes an injury. But that injury before sadly you know the tipping point of the Weinstein allegations and those brave women who came forward that injury is emotional and psychological. And so while any time that anybody says it's awkward, that's actually an injury, anybody that says I feel, I feel uncomfortable, I feel a bit harassed to feeling downright abused, that is an injury to be mitigated against. But sadly that emotional and psychological injury wasn't really recognized as something that a producer could be sued for until that tipping point. And that's and that's what's really sad, because also money speaks. At the end of the day, the bottom line is that because producers then were aware that actually someone could bring a court case against that emotional, psychological injury and actually being accepted as as much of a valid injury as someone breaking their ankle because they jumped off a roof in the wrong way. That's what made the producers change their tune and then therefore, the ripple effects. But regardless of how it came in, those are all the things that went to the role not being there before and then raising awareness of the need for the role and then for me, what I really enjoy.

Speaker 2:

People say you're there to keep people safe. You might say no, I'm not. No, that's not my focus. You don't say to a brilliant stunt coordinator you're there just to keep people safe. You don't say to a brilliant choreographer you're there to keep people safe. No, the intention is to create Baz Luhrmann's amazing Roxanne tango that is the most spine tingling number. In the process of that, you teach skills, you choreograph. That keeps people safe. You don't say to Tom Cruise's amazing stunt coordinator you're there just to keep people safe. No, they're there to have people on the edge of their seats to create a brilliant stunt sequence. And in the process is safety, and for me that's the same. I come from being, you know, as a dancer and an actor. I'm interested in physical storytelling. I'm interested in mining into the core of who we are as human beings. I'm interested in telling beautiful human physical stories, making the best art, the best physical storytelling of who these characters are, something of beauty or, if it's challenging, something that makes you uncomfortable. That's the end goal and inherent in that is safety.

Speaker 1:

You're beautifully eloquent about all of that and as, going back to that wonderful testimonial, thank you for your existence in our industry was the quote that you got, and now you've mentioned it. It's staggering that it was an afterthought until I think it was it circa 2017, you really got on the open road of this.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so I started sharing what, then, I brought together as the intimacy on set guidelines. I first of all presented the work to the group of agents, the PMA Personal Managers Association. I first of all presented the work to the group of agents, the PMA Personal Managers Association, in June of 2017, pre-weinstein and then post-Weinstein no-transcript practice with intimate content that allows everybody to work openly, professionally, with respect for everybody, and then creates the best work. So I started talking about the work. And then April 2018 the first two productions that invited me in were Sex Education season one and Gentleman Jack, and then in September of that year, I was co-working with a production Watchmen. That was some of. It was being filmed with the amazing Jeremy Irons in a mad folly of a castle in North Wales and I did all the intimate content there. In September 2018, with Alicia Rodas doing the work in the US.

Speaker 1:

So that was the beginning of actually being employed as an intimacy coordinator, and was there a parallel universe going on in the States, or is it down to you that you've created the movement, created the awareness and subsequently therefore created work for many, many other professionals alongside you?

Speaker 2:

Well, no, that's where I was developing the work. It was in the summer of 2017 that I started actually just googling and seeing what else was going on, and that's where I discovered Alicia Rodis and Tonya Sina. They were people who had fundamentally come from a stage combat background, and so they were developing it there in their own way as well, which I didn't know anything about until that point. I started calling the role the intimacy director, and so many directors got their back up, so I was going, no, no, no, let's shift this. Let's really help people to understand that it is absolutely akin to a stunt coordinator.

Speaker 1:

You're in good company with our fellow alumni because Richard Ryan he was an actor alongside me at the Old Vic Theatre School and he's the stunt coordinator for many, many things, but including Vikings, valhalla, now and again, the parallel universes of you needing a coordinator makes complete sense intimacy versus fight versus choreography. It is my great pleasure and privilege, then, to curate you through the journey of the Good Listening To Show. It's the show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers and also personal heroes into an energetic space called the Clearing to talk about your story of distinction and genius. So let's get you on the open road of this. Also, very excitingly in terms of seven-year life cycles, if you started this work circa seven, eight years ago, the good news is you're also about to ta-da reveal your new book to the world as well. I'll tell you now. We will invite you back when the book is published. Would you just like to position that before we get on the open road?

Speaker 2:

So yeah, the book is very exciting. So I've got the textbook to write. That's this autumn's work, but I'm doing a commercial book and I had several people come to me with different ideas but this really resounded with me. So it's actually a book about. It's called the New Rules, or the working title is the New Rules of Intimacy, but it's actually just sharing.

Speaker 2:

Before you can be intimate with somebody else, you have to be connected with yourself and actually it's a joyous journey through connection with the body, connection with breath, connection with nature, and then how you can listen to yourself, how you can support yourself, how you can support yourself, how can you can nurture your love of yourself, and then, once you've got that connection going, and then how you take that into your relationships. And I'm fundamentally journeying through my movement practice and each little bit that I'm speaking about. I'm just sharing another little bit of my movement practices which inspires me. So, for example, you know, being grounded, one of my practices in the morning is literally just going and walking barefoot in the grass in the garden and I'm very excited about sharing it and I hope it's going to be inspiring for people.

Speaker 1:

So the working title, the New Rules of Intimacy, how lovely, very exciting. Just one other thing I think we nearly were. Well, we were neighbours. I think we had Caledonia Place in common in Clifton Village, is that right? Yes, oh my goodness. Yes, I was at number three. Yes, oh my goodness. Yes, I was at number three, caledonia Place, just before we moved down to Southville and my daughter was born there in three Caledonia Place, so Caledonian Place, it is Caledonian Place.

Speaker 2:

So so, yes, my, my lovely life partner, russell, was living at number six Caledonian Place when I went to Bristol, old Vic, and I looked at his flat to rent and I was going to rent his flat and then, as it happens, he lived next door to Derren Brown, who was at number seven Caledonian Place. Number seven, please, and yeah, and I didn't end up renting the flat. That's another whole story, but I did get together with Russell and we actually will be having our 28th anniversary this October.

Speaker 1:

Hopefully you'll get into this too, but you had a very, very, very young baby with you when you went to the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School, so I hope we'll get into this too. But you had a very, very, very young baby with you when you went to the bristol old big theater school, so I hope we'll get on to all of this. Anyway, it's very exciting. Let's do this. Eater o'brien, where is what is a clearing for you? Where do you go to get clutter free, inspirational and able to think?

Speaker 2:

joyously. We moved to um sissinghurst in kent in february 2021 and we have a little place. So we've got an acre of garden and we made um a wildflower meadow. Down the bottom there's um a corner where we've got lovely benches. We put benches in and it's where we can watch the sunset. So we've got a wildflower meadow in front of us, we've got apple trees and then we've got this lovely setting sun. So it's a cocktail hour place and, yeah, that quiet place where I can just go down there and see the sky and listen to the birds and think and contemplate oh, that's lovely.

Speaker 1:

No one in my circa 200 episodes has said their own wildflower meadow at the bottom as a cocktail hour position, marvelous. So, yes, we're in kent then in a wildflower meadow, half either, notwithstanding I'm assuming I'm a little bit of a sneezy person, shall we say, but you probably don't get that. But we're in your clearing, which is your meadow. Now I'm going to arrive with a tree in your clearing and, a bit Waiting for Goddo-esque, a bit deliberately, existentially, I'm going to shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out. So this is where you've had five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention and I'll talk about some squirrels in the film up later. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you, eta O'Brien. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. It's not a memory test, so I'll curate you through it. So let's go back to the four things that have shaped you.

Speaker 2:

The first thing that came to mind is, um, the school that I happened to go to when I was five happened to have this lady, madeline sharp, who was, um, the most amazing ballet teacher. She had taught beryl gray in the 1930s wow, I know and she was already in her 70s and she was this tall woman, so elegant, so distinguished, and she you know us as little five-year-olds and she would have us absolutely the discipline but just through a sense of expectation and ease. Anyway, you know, she was my very inspiring ballet teacher and you know, for as long as I remember, I just wanted to be a ballet dancer and Madeleine Sharp was such an incredible inspiration. She was the Royal Academy of Dancing's top children's teacher. She would be asked to do the demonstrations every summer. So we'd go to the Royal Academy of Dancing in Battersea and she would, you know, we'd spend months preparing these demonstrations.

Speaker 2:

All the parents had to create all these amazing costumes and actually, at seven, madeleine Sharp, at the Royal Academy of Dancing, started filming through the grades, so they would anchor what the syllabus were, and so Madeleine Sharp was chosen to do the primary. So at seven, there was me in my little lovely white dress, along with my sister actually, and about another seven or eight dancers being filmed dancing primary, and Margot Fonteyn was the narrator.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, and again you're in really good company. Nola Ray, my last guest, the mime artist, was plonked down at the age of five in front of Swan Lake and that made her want to be Margot Fonteyn. So that's so extraordinary.

Speaker 2:

It was extraordinary. And having her come in, I've got a picture of me sat next to her with my head rested on her shoulder. Yeah, no, and so, really in the best company and obviously so inspired and inspiring. And then I was a scholar at the Royal Academy of Dancing from the age of 10 and then I went to Bush Davis. But her inspiration and her legacy, and, oh, when Beryl Gray did this Is your Life, madeleine Sharp couldn't make it. And in grade one you have the bird dance and you had this bird cage. And Madeleine Sharp still had the same bird cage that she'd used right from when Beryl Gray used it. And I was the person that in Madeleine Sharpstil's little video that she made for Beryl Gray's this Is your Life, I was the one that came in and did the turn with the birdcage.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful. That's a brilliant first shapeage. So on you go, next shapeage.

Speaker 2:

So being Irish obviously has got a huge impact on my life. My mum's from Cookstown sporn mountains out the back hills of cookstown. My dad's dad was a horse trainer. You know sort of in in the o'brien clan so yeah, just that connection with ireland and the land is very much part of who I am.

Speaker 2:

My mum was from a farm in kildress which is just outside cookstown, and we used to go across to the farm for the whole of the six weeks in the summer holidays for pretty much right the way through my childhood. So that thing of landing there and the madness was that I'd never even been into Belfast. They'd drive up to Stranraer and get the ferry across to Larne, we'd drive through to Cookstown and that was it. My mum's, the eldest of 10, and one of her brothers, pat, was the one who ran the farm and we'd be up at six o'clock in the morning out with Pat with a dog, nip, rounding the cows up, helping him bring the cows in. This is all before mechanization, so we could be going and he'd have this chamois leather teaching us how to lay, sit with our cheek against the cow and how to pull the teats in order to get the milk out.

Speaker 1:

And all the rest of it. You started your intimacy training young. In that case, you've been very intimate with a cow to milk a cow. How wonderful that it was very steeped in tradition.

Speaker 2:

Yes. So that's a really lovely thing and I do feel that the off-kilterness of the Irish. In a way I feel there's a bit of me. That's yes, that I'm an Irish person in England and when I go back to Ireland there's a sense of fitting in in a way. So there's that Catholicism. The shaping is the antithesis of Catholicism. So everything that that is about basically, I fundamentally feel, is for me. I can't speak for everybody and I feel there's a great difference between someone's religion and someone's spirituality. For me, the Catholic faith was, yes, the dictatorshipness of it, the expectation to, to take everything on board, hook, line and sinker and not question so as a prohibitor rather than an enabler for you absolutely and particularly recently just going.

Speaker 2:

All those things are great. Challenges are actually your greatest teachers. So a real gratitude to to my mum in particular. You know sort of her whole life is absolutely in service of her Catholic religion, but for me it's absolutely the you know that spring by springboard, the antithesis of that, and then your mum is still with us reading between the lines.

Speaker 1:

there is that right she's going to be 90 in November. Wow, wonderful.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and then my dad bless his cottonsons. Just to honor him, it's the 6th of august today. He passed away on the 9th of august two years ago, 2022. So, um, but he, he lived until he was 92, a grand old age. So in honor of him as well.

Speaker 1:

He was a marvelous dancer I'll talk to you in on. I've got a new series strand which is called the big birthday show and I'm looking for guinea pigs who are about 80 or 90, so 90 I could be coming for you to talk to your mum.

Speaker 2:

That would be interesting, that would be interesting. And then listening to Nola Ray as well, just that thing of music I so for me as a dancer, and when we used to do the demonstrations at the Royal Academy of Dancing, I was always the one that was chosen to do the free dance. Just listening to music and just dancing. So that connection of me just hearing music and just that desire to move, that desire to express the joy of that, is absolutely being something that shaped me. And, as I said, we've just come back from a holiday in Venice, first time I've been.

Speaker 2:

We were there because of a production that I worked on called Ruination, with the amazing Lost Dog Dance Theatre Company. I'd supported that intimacy-wise. They put it on in the Limbry Theatre at the Opera House December 2022. And then it's had a performance at the Dance Biennale in Venice just last week. So we were there for that, the Art Biennale, which we attended. There was all different spaces with the different countries and it was amazing the amount of different rooms that had music and it was lovely. You know, sort of one African one and sort of the beats there and just as people go in, just seeing people that can't help but move to the beat.

Speaker 1:

It's a lovely through line of you being in flow, which is just really lovely that's lovely that you say that.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I would agree with that because I was going to say the next thing is just, I feel that I am one of those people that is an experiential and a kinesthetic people. I experience the world through my body. So it's really interesting. My partner is very much in his head. He reads, he would listen to the radio all night if he could. He knows these facts about things. And when we listen to music, if I listen to a song, I will be listening to how it makes me feel and the rhythm of it and the quality of it, and listening to the structure of the music. Whereas russell began oh, that line blur and I would be going oh my goodness, that the connection with the actual words just would have passed me by. But I'm there in the feel of it. So my realization that I really experience the world through my body, and that's then what has informed really everything that I do, I think that's four delicious shapeages, thank you.

Speaker 1:

So if there's any overlap, that doesn't matter. Three things that inspire you now.

Speaker 2:

Excellence in anything I find inspiring. So like if you go to the supermarket and there's somebody who just is on top of their game, who know you know who's at the till and and knows how to work things. Um, you know, at a cocktail bar watching someone you know who's got all the skills, who just has reached a degree of excellence, I love that. It doesn't matter who it is or and it's actually almost the antithesis of that, I feel. Anything that anybody does, you should do it to the best of your ability if it's worth doing.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's right and nothing is, too, is too demeaning. I do believe in the thing of, of um, of where on this planet to be off service, and I think that's yes, and and countries that that really know that being off service is an honor and nothing is beneath anybody. If you're being a rubbish collector, you know thank you to everybody who's been man you know it's a fundamental part of our society, isn't it how you take away all your rubbish and and again? Even watching dustbin men talk about flow, you know you're hanging on to the side of it, moving on to the next bit, jumping, getting the bins. So again, just inspiring people to go. Nothing is beneath you. Everything, anything that you do, if you're going to do it, you do it to the best of your ability that resonates again beautifully with thank you for your existence in who you're now describing.

Speaker 1:

Yes, thank.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. So on that thing of excellence, I remember Bohemian Rhapsody. I wasn't very good. I was such a ballet bod that I would just in my teenage years I would spend four nights a week going to ballet, be it at the Royal Academy of Dancing in Battersea or at Traipse, over to another amazing teacher called Irene Ayres who had taught Leslie Collier in Orpington, or going to Madeleine Sharp. So I just wasn't listening to any normal, like pop music. But when Bohemian Rhapsody came out, I remember going, oh my goodness, that was the first thing that really hit story, like, oh my goodness, what is this? And again, yeah, just the power of that. And then things like I remember also just Taylor Swift, shake it Off. Didn't know anything about Taylor Swift, and when that song came out I'm going, oh my goodness, who is this person? She's incredible. Talk about someone who does something to excellence. So there we go.

Speaker 2:

So excellence, nature, absolutely Nature, being connected with the natural world earth, air, fire and water, listening to nature, being inspired by nature, being connected with nature, nature. I had the joy of, in my time, movement, directing and teaching movement to actors, and I would teach neutral masks and, of course, one of the first exercises that you do is just with the mask on, just standing and just looking at um, you know, this is one of Lecoq's basic exercises is standing on a beach with your feet at the shore and looking out to nature, and you just describe the horizon as it. And again, it's such a brilliant exercise because, as human beings, that's who we are. We are creatures of. You know the planet, we are stardust, we are earth, air, fire and water. So then, standing on a beach, your feet are connected with the earth, you're looking out at water, you know you've got the air around you and the sun above you, and just how you allow those elements to impact on you on such a beautiful, simplistic exercise.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, simple and beautiful exercise absolutely before.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's at the core of who we are. You know, and and again that aspect that um, through putting the mask on the audience, can only see what you're seeing through the impact of how you're expressing it through your body. And then I've actually had the joy of doing a week's workshop with a lady called Bonnie Bainbridge-Cohen. Have you heard of her?

Speaker 1:

No, but tell me more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, okay. So Bonnie Bainbridge-Cohen is someone who's just investigated the body throughout her life and then gradually, sort of, you know, explored things and then connected and then shared that when we had the week with her, she was at this stage this was about oh my goodness, it must be about 15 years ago and it's the closest I've got to being in the presence of a little Yoda she's truly amazing and she was telling us that her kids at school were being asked what do your parents do?

Speaker 2:

and apparently her daughter. I don't know what my mum does, but I do know that she makes up as she goes along. When I was working with her, she was sharing with us the development of the organs in embryo. Can you believe? Yes, we were experiencing ourselves as a zygote at that stage, of being just a zygote, as this ball of multi-faceted cells journeying through the fallopian tubes into the womb and then anchoring into the lining of the womb. And, um, the back cells of the zygote become embed and become the center. The front cells become the yolk for the time that the center is being formed and three lines of cells drop down in the center the front line, the midline and the backline. And that's those three lines of cells is what becomes a human being. And then we went on to explore the development of the lungs and development of the kidneys. Incredible stuff this is all in a week.

Speaker 2:

I'm hearing yes, the development of the organs and embryo were all during a week, oh yes. So back to Earth Air, fire and Water, the aspects of who we are in our bodies like. So, everything of our material, our bony structure, the architecture of our skeleton is Earth. Our nervous system is fire. Electricity and heat, everything, all of our fluid systems is all over the water and we've got so many different qualities of fluid systems in our body. We've got the spinal cord, we've got, obviously, our blood, you've got the lymphatic system and then air, obviously the aerobic breathing, air from outside to in, but also then the internal anaerobic breathing, every cell breathing. So, as you can tell, I really love that connection, both in that neutral mask, just in order to be able to feel how, just like again, just going and walking barefoot in the grass, that connection of earth, how you feel that sun on your face but how you, you know, feeling that energy in your body, that connection with breath and the air around you, um, and that connection of the momentum and the element of water.

Speaker 1:

I can imagine. Every time you go to the sea, you arrive on the water's edge with your bare feet and you just look out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, and my family know if I go to the water in any way, shape or form, then I have to take my shoes and socks up and pedal in the water to get my feet in the water.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful inspirations, I think. Now we're on to two things that never fail to grab your attention, and this is your. What are your squirrels? Oh, squirrels borrowed from the film, what never fails to distract you, irrespective of anything else that's going on for you.

Speaker 2:

I did have my son say to me the other day, when we were walking, that I'm like a child, stopping and noticing everything, can't remember where were we going. We were walking somewhere and then, actually just leaving Venice, we booked a water taxi and we had to leave at half six in the morning and just, it was absolutely, just, sublimely beautiful. You know that speedboat on the water journeying away from Venice, looking at Venice there with the sun rising, I would say beauty, beauty in all of its forms, and seeing beauty in all of its forms and nature, and again going back and then just loving excellence. You know so. So, yes, just those two things, I think lovely, this is sublime.

Speaker 1:

And now a quirky or unusual fact about you. Um, we couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us eater o'brien oh, there are so many.

Speaker 2:

When you went to bristol or vic, did you spend the first after the, in the afternoon of the whole of the first term just reading through all of the lexicon of plays, right from Greeks, right the way through to modern day?

Speaker 1:

Yes, there was a bit of history of theatre sort of class. That was there. Yes, I did the two-year course, I don't know how many years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so did I way, and I remember that, that sight reading and just finding it so excruciatingly hard and like for me with Shakespeare. I love Shakespeare, but the first reading hopeless, is, like you know. And then, and then if I get into it, then it suddenly opens itself out to me and I remember some people you know my sight reading was so bad that people would say, um, what's she doing here, apparently. And it's when I went to Central School of Speech and Drama that there I got tested for possibly having dyslexia and I was like so completely dyslexic. So finding out that I was dyslexic was wonderful.

Speaker 2:

Yes, just because all all of those things just feeling that you're bad or terrible in certain ways and and you know, just that unconscious dyslexic, where you sort of you're battling with these things your whole life and you're slow at reading and slow at blah, blah, blah and but being, yes, being distracted, you know it's sort of like that thing of as a dyslexic person. Yes, it's that thing. You follow that and then that takes you on to that, then that takes you on to that, but that distraction then I always, always see it as a spiral that then you gradually pull all those things in to this, to a center sometimes called the love of shiny things, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

oh shiny, and then off you go to the next. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Constant perpetual squirrels of dyslexia, which is a wonderful thing, a wonderful state that's right.

Speaker 2:

But finding out that I was dyslexic, then you can flip it to the gift of dyslexia and understanding oh this is where I am.

Speaker 1:

This is my kinesthetic experience of the world is partly from that yeah, your superpower makes you a bit of a savant in being able to experience flow and presence and connection.

Speaker 2:

That's right anyway, but there you go, so. So it's being dyslexic um a fact.

Speaker 1:

I don don't know it's very wonderful. That's the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Now we stay in the clearing, move away from the tree. Next we talk about alchemy and gold. When you're at purpose and in flow, eta, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Speaker 2:

So, with this role that I'm doing now, it's a very interesting one and you know so say. The fundamental tenets of the intimacy work are open communication, transparency is the first one, that's the overarching, and then agreement and consent, clear choreography and then really good closure. But that open communication transparency is actually about making you know you talk about dyslexic things it's about making those connections, and again, part of what we do as the intimacy coordinator is actually connecting departments across a production that perhaps might stay separate, and it's in that you know understanding, listening, finding out people's boundaries and then communicating that so that everything is known, there are no surprises, and then, once all those connections are made, it's very interesting. Then, by the time you get to do the work, all of those open communications and connections have meant that you hit the ground running. You arrive on set and you sort of tease those threads out of everybody, that actually there's a knowingness with everybody, so you can just then ride that flow of those. Communications have already happened, the conversations have already happened, the shared intention of what this scene is about, that's already happened. If they, if you can, you've had a rehearsal, that's already happened. And then it means that everything just happens smoothly, easily, on the day, on set. So that's the sense of being in the flow. And then you can just stand back. And because you've created the shape and you've created the structure of holding that open communication has allowed for everybody and allowing everybody to be listened to and heard the director's vision first of all, you're listening and you're hearing that, you're honouring that, connecting with the actors and listening and hearing them. The first AD that's going to hold the floor, listening to the DOP that's going to for the camera angles or sharing back, so that then you can stand back and allow everybody to be in their flow, to bring the best of themselves in each of their different roles, to creating a beautiful scene. So that's absolutely gorgeous.

Speaker 2:

And then for myself, I am aware that when I was teaching movement which is what I did to actors and again going back to me saying right from the get-go about being, you know I'd be the one that Madeline Schutt would say you do the one. That's the improvisation bit. So when I'm teaching movement to actors, invariably my first movement session I'll do with any new group is is, um, five rhythms. Do you know five rhythms? No, tell me more.

Speaker 2:

So a marvelous lady called Gabrielle Roth developed what she called a wave, which is basically giving a structure to a flow of movement, but also that allowed everybody to be completely free within it. So the understanding of going anything at all that you want to dance, it starts with that inspiration, that in-breath, that going inward which you would call flowing, and then there's that belt, then it becomes the out outbreath, which is then actually doing something out in the world, which becomes staccato, the masculine, and then that culminates in chaos, which is the alchemy, the baffling and the coming together of the masculine and the feminine, and then after that you know that culmination that falls away. Then you've discovered yourself anew from that experience, which is lyrical, and then that falls away to stillness. So those five rhythms then become, you dance them in a wave, and then you can explore anything through that way, which is very exciting.

Speaker 2:

So things like when I was movement directing on a production of Othello. You know, when it comes to the fit in act four, I didn't want to be imposing anything on the lovely actor playing Othello. So I did a five rhythm session with both othello and iago, because of course both of those characters are fundamentally driven by jealousy. So we explored the wave of jealousy, and then I was able to take whatever he found um the person playing othello in the chaos, for the height of the fits that you see in act four and without you know, to to to take what he had found in his own physicality. But the fundamental warm-up from that is just a body parts warm-up, just, you know, moving the different body parts and that's a great answer alchemy and gold.

Speaker 1:

Right there, the flow of your purpose, which was wonderful, thank you. And now I'm going to award you with a cake. So first of all, I have I have to ask you do you like cake? Eta, absolutely Love cake, so what cake would you like? Unfortunately, it's a metaphorical one, until I get to meet you in person and I can give you one. But what would you like?

Speaker 2:

Oh goodness, my daughter makes the most marvellous carrot cake. She's an absolute genius at making cake. She doesn't realise that not everybody can make cake and this particular carrot cake is so moist, it's just unbelievable.

Speaker 1:

So there we go. So wonderfully moist carrot cake. This is a bit like a carrot cake. You can see that that's my gift to you. Now you get to put a cherry on the cake with stuff like what's the favorite inspirational quote, eater? That's always given you sucker and pulled you toward your future ah, the lovely rudy shelly.

Speaker 2:

he would say to us don't listen to me, go out and find for yourselves. Do you remember that one? I do yes. So that aspect of sort of like you know you can listen to people, people can inspire you, but take that inspiration and go and go and go out and see how that impacts on you in your own life.

Speaker 1:

I think that for listeners out there. Rudy Shelley was the ancient sort of Yoda-esque mystic acting teacher, will I will, who was at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School, part of the very old guard of wonderful, unforgettable genius teachers. Just say his quote once again.

Speaker 2:

So just to add to that, he was at Bristol Old Vic. He taught at Bristol Old Vic for 60 years, but he started he was the movement teacher. Yes, when he first came he was the movement teacher and I loved that, the fact that obviously, as you say, he sort of morphed into just this yoda of incredible wisdom, and actually I've got some of his photos when I because I'm I was with him and I would go to, you know, to have private sessions with him in his, in his flat in the months as he was ill and coming up to dying, and so he gave me some of his dancing photos, which are so beautiful anyway, but his one of his quotes was don't listen to me, go out and find for yourselves and I'd love to have a look at those photos someday.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much. That's, that's wonderful. What a rich, what a precious gift to have had those last few months it being yeah, wonderful, so, uh, now, um, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Speaker 2:

don't know if it's advice, but a sort of thing to live by is being gratitude, no matter how little you've got, no matter how much you think you haven't got, living a life of gratitude, being grateful for what you have, yes, just sends that ripple out to the world. You know, now, remember, I'll do a thing, a thing where I'd light a candle before I go to bed and then think through the day, particularly those years when I was by myself and days that you think you had a bad day. And when you think through the day, then in fact you realise that there's always something that's utterly beautiful Gratitude, being gratitude for life.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful you may have covered this, but just in case, with the gift of hindsight, what notes, help or advice might you offer to a younger version of Eta O'Brien?

Speaker 2:

Keep listening to your gut instinct. You know what your heart desires and follow that.

Speaker 1:

Lovely answer. And now we're ramping up to Shakespeare to talk about legacy shortly. But just before we do that and, by the way, this is the actual book I bought to go to the bristol big theater school, so it says chris grimes, 16 986, I think we were 10 years apart at the bristol, yeah. So when I dug this out as my prop when I got going with the podcast, this is the actual one to use, which is exciting. We're getting there soon. But just before we do that, this is the pass the golden baton moment, please. So now you've experienced this from within, who instinctively would you most like to pass the golden baton along to, to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going?

Speaker 2:

I think somebody who is just amazing, he's just such an inspiration there's, um, yeah, such a beautiful, um, sharing of humanity is my lovely friend, derren brown, who like to say we met in bristol and and he, he moved up to london. He actually moved close to us and now he's moved back to bristol, as it happens, and he's the most, yeah, fabulous human being and most amazing exponent of, of magic, so, um, so, yes, I think he'd be a very interesting person so your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to furnish me with a warm introduction.

Speaker 2:

Hopefully I'll see, I'll contact him and see what he says wonderful.

Speaker 1:

So now then, inspired by shakespeare and all the worlds of steedred, all the bidded, we've been merely players. Uh ito, brian. Intimacy on set dot com and intimacy coordinator, with your natural inflowness just seeping out at all points. How, when all is said and done, would you most like to be remembered?

Speaker 2:

Oh goodness, I would. Yes, as a person who inspires people to tell beautiful human stories.

Speaker 1:

Where can we find out all about you with your book coming soon with the working title, the Murals of Intimacy? Where can we find out all about you and your work on soon with the working title, the murals of intimacy? Where can we find out all about you and your work on the internet?

Speaker 2:

eto, brian so, yes, intimacy onsetcom we've got a new version of it coming in the autumn, but for now you can go there it's. It's um, yes, it's not the best, but um, but the new one's coming. And also, anybody at all who is feeling that they, um, they're doing some intimate content, not too sure how to go about it and worried, particularly, you know, younger people, filmmakers, worried about money, please go to intimacy on set and go to the intimacy on set guidelines. They're there for anybody to follow. They're also translated into several languages.

Speaker 2:

So, yes, I had someone say to me oh, but you know, you know our company's been, has had our funding cut and I'm saying but it's not about money, it's about the intention, yes, to work with practice. So go to the intimacy onset guidelines, go to the, read them. And again, it's that intention of working with open communication, transparency, listening to the agreement and consent, honoring everybody's boundaries in whatever way. And then know that, as creative people, you can always tell physical storytelling. Yes, the honors. Whoever is performing honors their boundaries. Working creatively, either using theater techniques of sort of slow motion or sort of shadows or whatever, or in TV and film, using camera angles and things, you can always tell a physical story that honours the actor's requirements and honours your physical storytelling, and in that place we can all make really good work and share who we are, the best of who we are and are loving in our humanity.

Speaker 1:

Wonderfully eloquently put, and for those that want to visit your website as well, there is a segue into a wonderful Guardian culture film called Staged Sex how an intimacy coordinator works with actors on sex scenes, and I really enjoyed watching that to get a much clearer understanding of your work beyond what I already knew. So that's something else to point people to, as this has been your moment in the sunshine, in the Good, Listening To show Stories of Distinction and Genius. Intimacy Coordinator Eta O'Brien. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

Speaker 2:

Yes, what I would like to say is, in our world, where our kids are more and more disconnected from their bodies and connected to all different forms of screens, be it their phones, their computers, just saying keep our kids connected to nature, keep our kids going out and playing in the woods and climbing trees, and keep them connected with themselves and in our natural world, are really cool to our education systems.

Speaker 2:

Take people out in nature, copy what they do, in the finish that all of their lessons are done outside, in nature. They only come in when they absolutely have to. Because we're losing that connection with our kids. They're becoming less and less embodied um and less and less connected um in their relationships. And I'm just inviting us just flip that lid and just keep. Keep everybody connected to nature and to their bodies and it'll help us to be more healthy human beings. And thank, thank you very much, for it makes me smile. Every time you say distinction and genius, I don't think of myself in that way at all, so it's absolutely a joy to be couched in those terms and thank you so much for inviting me on and giving me the opportunity to share my inspirations.

Speaker 1:

And right back at you. Thank you very much indeed for saying yes, so I'll stop recording there. Tune in next week for more stories from the Clearing. Look at the new website, thegoodlistening2showcom, and there are seven different series Trans about how you too can get involved in the show. One of which, of course, I mentioned, is the Big Birthday Show, which is, I'm looking for, 70, 80, 90, 100. I have recently interviewed somebody who's 100 called Mabel and it was called Mabel and it was called Mabel's Marbles because she's still got them all and she was happy to be there anyway.

Speaker 1:

Lardy blah, good listening to showcom. I've been Chris Grimes, but, most importantly, thank you so much. This has been Eta O'Brien and anything else you'd like to say now? No, thank you, chris. It's been a joy and good night. You've been listening to the good listening to show with me.

Speaker 1:

Chris Grimes, if you'd like to be in the show too, or indeed gift an episode to capture the story of someone else with me as your host, then you can find out how care of the series strands at the goodlisteningtoshowcom website, and one of these series strands is called the Big Birthday Show. To help with that perennial question what do you get for that special someone who has everything, eg your Aunt Fanny or your Uncle Bob. Well, now you can give them an episode of the Good Listening To show, with me, chris Grimes, as your host, to help Aunt Fanny, uncle Bob, birthday boy or birthday girl celebrate their big day. So, yes, if you know of anyone that has a big O coming up on their birthday soon be that 40, 50, 60, 70, 180, 90 or 100, then why not get in touch to find out more about the big birthday show?

Speaker 1:

Tune in next week for more stories from the Clearing and don't forget to subscribe and review wherever you get your podcasts. So, eater O'Brien, you've just been given a good listening to through the construct of this show. What was it like for you being curated through this structure?

Speaker 2:

Yes, the structure is a bit daunting at the beginning, oh my goodness. But actually then it's a lovely jumping off place to act lyrical and especially to honour the people through my life that have been really important inspirations.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, it's a lovely little construct to journey us through Wonderful, and I'm very chuffed that you might ask Darren for me as well. So thank you very much. We're thinking of something else to say, so back to you.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, so, as you were recognising just there, this work is fundamentally about supporting and facilitating open communication and transparency.

Speaker 2:

So it means that by the time you get to the day on set, it looks like you're not doing very much, but I say it's like the tip of the iceberg.

Speaker 2:

The day on set is a tip of the iceberg, it's a bit that you see, but actually that's supported by all of the 80 percent of the iceberg that's underneath, but actually that's supported by all of the 80 percent of the iceberg that's underneath. It's all about that journey through to making connections, listening to people trust, helping people to trust you so that everything runs smoothly on the day on set, and also for the industry to understand that that has to be paid for. You know, sort of like yes, don't say you know, I'm paying for your day on set. No, you know, you know people say to me what goes wrong with the day on set? When things go wrong on the day on set, and again, it really is that it really doesn't happen that much anymore because I've learned from mistakes and and you've put back into the process. When you need to ask questions, you know of whom at what time, so that everything is prepared, so the day on set runs really smoothly and um yeah, what's so relatable about that?

Speaker 1:

it's your. It's the moment of bearing witness to everything that has gone before, so there's a tranquility and a peace and a security, which is what's so important that's right and that's a lovely thing.

Speaker 2:

It is bearing witness. You know, I say to my you know I talk to my practitioners about holding space and and also for me it's been a big learning thing, that thing of being there offering in. You know, talk about the front. You know bonnie bainbridge cohen's the front line, the midline and the back line. You know it's a very offering, you know, in that front space and then, but actually for us as practitioners we're not even in mid space, we're pulling into the back space so that actually we are holding, we're giving space. That's the other thing is, you don't want to be interfering, you want to have all that so that you're holding that space. And there's a really lovely quote from the amazing Andy Garfield. So I worked on an amazing, beautiful, beautiful film called we Live in Time. The trailer's just out and it's going to be out on New Year's Day and in his speaking about working with me he was saying I gave them a really fantastic playpen within which they could just play. And you know the holding is that and that's really important as well.

Speaker 1:

It's about giving space and being a great enabler. Something else I thought of reflecting back. Yes, um, thank you so much. It's been a delight talking to you and it's been a really interesting, lovely. I first spoke to you when I was on holiday in madeira back in april and it's been a really lovely, lovely, slow burn to this point and I'm really happy to have had you here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much thank you, yes, it's been lovely.