The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Brand Strand/Founder Story: Mastering the Art of Corporate Storytelling & Creative Balance with Martin Clarkson, Master Storyteller & Co-Founder of 'Create Balance'

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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Martin Clarkson is a charming and natural born storyteller with an extraordinary story to tell.  After being rejected just once too often for a career on the Stage, he kept his promise to his mother and applied to Marks & Spencer for a ‘proper job’,  before working there for almost half a century! From there, his story far from over, then continued as he went on to create a now 20 year old, world renowned company called ‘Storytellers’.  Now his passion for Storytelling continues with his newly formed enterprise, ‘Create Balance’. 

Create Balance is all about assisting businesses, whether creative or commercial, to respond imaginatively and appropriately to the challenges and opportunities offered by ‘current reality.’  Create Balance exists to make the most of the power of NOW, in an authentic and balanced way. 

For Martin Clarkson, reality exists in the power of Words. ‘Words to Follow’ might have been OK for ad-men pitching for business 50 years ago, but it is not OK for Martin Clarkson today!

He tells many a wonderful story, including the one about his grandfather telling him of a ‘bank’ that provided  £1440 free every single day. Any pounds not spent that day were lost. But another £1440 appeared again  next morning. Martin’s grandfather explained that the 1440 is actually a parable for the free 1440 minutes that are given to all of us every 24 hours. It is entirely up to us what we do with them. 

The words rang a bell with young Martin - as did the vision articulated by the person at M&S, who recruited him. ‘Why should performance be restricted to the theatre?’ he asked. He invited Martin to consider the 27 million shoppers, who visit Marks & Spencer ever day as his ‘audience’ and their 270 stores as his ‘stage’. 

Before his eyes were opened by these words, Martin saw the store as somewhere his mother went to buy knickers. An altogether unbalanced view! 

Now he understood Shakespeare’s words: “All the world’s a stage!”

On his various trips to New York to check the latest retail ideas on the floors of Manhattan, Martin always made time to take in a show at Radio City’s 8000 seat theatre. 4 shows a day, each just 75 minutes long, totally stimulating, totally inspirational!

Martin Clarkson my claim to have an ‘Honours Degree in Distraction’. The body of his life’s work demonstrates that he is able to reconcile the tensions of Brightness and Relevance. His Newco ‘Create Balance’ is an excellent manifestation of Martin’s latest bright relevant idea.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, Chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the Clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, Chris Grimes, Are you sitting comfortably?

Speaker 1:

Then we shall begin, and let us begin. Welcome, welcome, LinkedIn, and welcome welcome to a very auspicious day in the Good Listening To Show. I have a man in front of me here live on LinkedIn, Martin Clarkson who the clearing could have been conceptualised in homage of. Because, Martin Clarkson, I'd like to call you a natural born storyteller, not least because you founded a globally renowned company called the Storytellers, which you're a chief navigator.

Speaker 2:

And Chris, it's lovely to start and I hate by starting by being a bit picky. But that opening final piece you give where you say are you sitting comfortably? Then we begin. It actually comes back. I hope you know from the 50s listening with mother. I was an avid listener and it always began with are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. You bastardize it slightly, which is slightly upsetting for those involved in the vintage 50 radio memories.

Speaker 1:

Bless you for that word. Bastardised from the get-go. I love that. Also, your DNA is in children's TV because of the wonderful Matthew Corbett and Sooty and Sweep backgrounds, so you're very qualified to pick me up on what it should have been in the 50s.

Speaker 2:

Okay, thank you very much, up on what it should have been in the 50s. Okay, thank you very much. Then let me become your wikipedia of the 50s and anyone else online who needs to know a little bit about what happened way before they were born exactly, and I wasn't trying to offend you by inferring how old we both are and you are, but yes, we have history.

Speaker 1:

You've also got m&s in your dna. Apart from storytelling in your dna, we met circa many thousands of years ago. When you're at m&s, um, I've had m&s in my dna because it's my mother's favorite uh brand on the planet, um. So if you can't keep my mum happy, which m&s didn't for a while, which is part of the context in which I met you when I was being brought in to help you, as the sort of navigator-in-chief, try and sort out what was going on in the late 80s, I believe it was.

Speaker 2:

I was 45 years with Marks Spencer and loved every moment of it, chris, and I'm sure we'll come back to some of the lessons from that.

Speaker 2:

But that's where I met you because, for those of you who don't know, chris was part of a troupe of traveling actors who at the time were wonderful at bringing to life for corporate organizations things that were wrong. So the business might be riddled with silo mentality and lack of collaboration. Riddled with silo mentality and lack of collaboration. And, to put it right, we watched these performers up on stage at a conference performing it and then people in the audience would relate and say, oh, I can see that silo mentality and I was always curious at the time that those that were the most guilty were the ones who enjoyed you the most. So it was a wonderful way of highlighting in the room who were the silo mentality, because they got the most excited about your performance, because they were first to spot what you were picking out. They were good days and it was great to watch you in action and indeed be involved with you through several other episodes that we might touch on over the next 40 minutes.

Speaker 1:

That's very, very kind of you to reciprocate and blow some happy smoke back to me too. I've just remembered we wrote a comic sketch, which you may or may not have seen at that time, where there was someone called Barry who was head of produce and somebody called Helena Felton was head of HR or something, and we did do a gag which is a little bit on the edge, which is Barry brought forth his plums and Helena Feltham.

Speaker 2:

See what we did there. A wonderful lady I can say no more about.

Speaker 1:

Barry, but Helena Feltham, so you are so welcome. The Clearing is where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to get asked and all good stories come to get told, and I'm deeply thrilled to be able to curate you through the storytelling construct of this and we're going to do a brand strand founder story about all things that you're up to. Storytellers is now going, but no more with you at the helm as co-founder. You're doing create balance at the moment, so would you just like to get on the open road of what Martin Clarkson's currently up to, please?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'd love to and thank you for that. And well read, by the way, from your notes we hardly notice your head going down. No, it's spontaneous, this work. I love it. Create Balance.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting to watch what you taught at Marks Spencer because I adore Marks Spencer. And, looking back, marks Spencer, as you followed through the millennium period, suffered, suffered badly, and I was there and part of it at the time and it was the first time the engine of the car had ever gone wrong and it was a worrying period. But I'm delighted, as you were saying, to watch today that it's heading very positively back in a very solid route. And the create balance is quite an interesting connection, because organizations that survive, succeed and move forward are creating balance and that means they're showing an ability to respond to the current reality. An ability to respond to the current reality. When we ran into problems before the millennium, we were getting research from the current reality but we weren't believing it or responding to it. And it's interesting to note. I remember in those days certainly the 70s and 80s Sony announced they had a 50-year business plan and everyone applauded for that very clever 50-year business plan. I mean, we've all proved how foolish long-term business plans are now. During the storyteller days, we had 10-year plans, five-year stories.

Speaker 2:

Today I say again create balance is your ability to respond to current reality. You have to be focusing on what matters most and if the pandemic taught us anything, it woke us all up to the fact that we're evolving at a very fast rate. Now, not everything can change. This moving narrative can't keep moving. Some pieces have to stay still and I think M&S, again, was a very good example of keeping what needs to stand still, standing still. You've got to hold the values you hold. That's who you are. You've got to hold the unique what you do and you've got to hold the why purpose. That's the spine, that's the totem in the center of the organization. But if you've got that holding true, then you create balance because you now show your ability to adjust and you can safely adjust because you're holding that center. So that's create balance, which I'm really enjoying because I think the word balance has never been more relevant to life today, for organizations, for teams, for individuals and in order to to stay flexible and adaptive, to maintain the gold that's at the heart of it.

Speaker 1:

So, even M&S, it traditionally was their gold, but then they've got to make sure that that gold is repackaged in a way that's flexible and adaptive.

Speaker 2:

Every organisation has it. Chris, you must hold your roots. If you don't, for instance, it's like your DNA, I mean, I suspect with you at home, with you and the family. If you do something that's not quite you, your family stop and say wait a minute, dad, that doesn't sound like you and what they mean is you've moved away from your who, what, why? Now, if you hold that solid, your how, go wherever you wish, be as agile as you wish, and organizations have to be the same today. So that's Create Balance, and I'm delighted working very heavily in the moment in the art sector with that whole ethos, really enjoying it.

Speaker 1:

And you're very natural crossing the divide into the arts as well. You're a theatre impresario as well. I mean, just looking at your beautiful background, I know you've been very, very close to the likes of well, the Morecambe and Wise legacy is a show that you've done, the show that celebrated Eric and Ernie. I know you're closely connected to James Seabright as a producer. Your own children have gone into the arts as well. There's Potted Potter, which is in the background too.

Speaker 2:

Yes, children have gone into the arts as well. There's Potted Potter, which is in the background too. Yeah, the wall, in fairness, is a sort of barometer of most of what's going on with the kids and the family, and, in fact, keeping it up to date is challenging, because they watch things like this and say it's a bit too strong for Daniel and not enough for Sam, and there's a bit of Amy and Tom's over there, so it needs to keep a good balance.

Speaker 1:

It's a very inclusive backdrop in that case. But at your DNA you've got the likes of Tommy Cooper and comic legacy personified right there. I have to comment on your glasses, which makes you even more wizardly and sort of the Gandalf of storytelling. You shall not pass until you've told me your story first.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's very kind. They also help me see. So there is. I'm blessed for commenting.

Speaker 1:

Last time I spoke to you they were brown, but now they're red, so you obviously have an accessorised shape on the daily, which is great.

Speaker 2:

Lovely, so shall we get on the open road then Ready when you are, chris, I'm holding on to the sides. I think we've got now 35 minutes left for this journey.

Speaker 1:

You are given great praise as you're being a sort of chairman of Rolls-Royce Calibre, able to sort of hit the button of being on time and getting through the agenda.

Speaker 2:

That was from the wonderful people at 26. I don't know if you came across 26. They are a remarkable organisation. They call themselves 26 because there were 26 letters in the alphabet and their whole love is the power of words. And when it first began, it began in the days when ad agencies would arrive, and I remember it in the marketing days at M&S. It arrived with a visual of your next campaign and at the bottom there'd be a sticky note saying words to follow and the writer said whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, hang on. The words can make this. This should never happen again.

Speaker 2:

And that began the campaign of 26. And it began very much business-focused, saying why is the annual report one of the issues that's probably the most difficult to read in a business calendar? Why can't we write as we talk? Why can't we use the power of words to embrace the issues that we're trying to get across? And 26 has moved on in the last 20 years remarkably. I'm really proud of them all. It's such a great organisation and they've got a new chair who's slightly younger, by about 50 years and is going to move them to a greater future.

Speaker 1:

I happen to know she's called Sophie and I can't remember until I look down at my notes what her surname is.

Speaker 2:

please, Well, go on, look at your notes, no one's noticing.

Speaker 1:

Ah, you've got me on a technicality there. I knew she was called sophie and I was, I didn't know no no, sophie, it is anyway.

Speaker 2:

Go on.

Speaker 1:

I'm not going to interrupt anymore oh no, that's good, and I do like the cut of 26 jib because of the idea that a picture paints a thousand words. So I actually like the fact they turn up with a photograph and let that try and speak for it. Yes, so let's get going. There's going to be a clearing, which is your serious happy place of your choosing. There's going to be a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called five, four, three, two, one. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold that you're giving me by the bucket load already. There's going to be a golden baton, a cheeky bit of shakespeare and a cake. So it's absolutely all to play for. So let's's do this. So, martin Clarkson, mr Storyteller Personified, where is what is a clearing for you? Where is your serious happy place that you go to to get?

Speaker 2:

custody. This is interesting, you see. I've listened to a few of your broadcasts and everyone's been really smart, haven't they? They've had a sort of hut in the garden or a special walk, and I haven't got one, chris Now, in the garden or a special walk. Or and I haven't got one, chris Now.

Speaker 2:

This is a bad start. I know first part of the show and I haven't got one. I think, though, I've been, I've got maybe two or three places where I think a lot, and that's quite good. First one is inside a theater, and we'll go back to why, but over so many years it's not about the show. The moment I go through the doors or sit in the seats and we're very lucky, at the moment we're working, mel and I, my business partner, we're Delphont Macintosh Theatres, eight of the most beautiful theatres in the West End, and I love sitting in them when they're empty and I can be on my own, and it's a great thinking space, any performance space, a great thinking space, I think.

Speaker 2:

The second is the beach. I in the 50s again, there weren't well, the Wright brothers were struggling to get British Airways afloat, but it was early days we went to Morecambe on a train, and we went every year to Morecambe and the joy of arriving at the seaside was joyous and it stayed with me. The seaside and the seagulls, anywhere you can hear seagulls. By the way, I have noticed now you can hear seagulls in most city centres. I don't know how they get there. There must be some sort of a way. Day pass they use, but don't you feel it? I I was. I was in birmingham at a conference recently and and there were seagulls. You go. Either my geography is badly behind or these seagulls have an appetite to travel all day they deserve I, uh, and seagulls.

Speaker 2:

Now, the seagull is the logo of create balance. It's a big inspirer to me, the seagull. And the third, the seagull, is the logo of Create Balance. It's a big inspirer to me, the seagull. And the third place, if I'm allowed a third is bed. I do lots of thinking in bed. In fact, a very old friend of mine once said a very old gentleman, he must have been my age when I met him in my 20s and he said if you're spending your money wisely, spending on your bed and your shoes, because you're never out of one of them and he was right and if it's comfortable and I'm lying there in the evening, middle of the night or in the morning, things that seem complicated before you lie down maybe it's the lying down motion they all seem to go into compartments and come out in an orderly order. So those are my three, if I may Theatre, beach and lying in bed.

Speaker 1:

Lovely, and the question on everyone's lip was who was that elderly gentleman that was next to you in the bed when he told you that, also, you've exceeded expectations. The best communication skills happens in threes and you've given us storytelling because you've given us three ah. So now, um, you can decide which of those three places, and I do love the fact that there's a quiet auditorium, that the sanctuary of a theater yeah, well, I bet you feel the same, don't you?

Speaker 2:

when you go inside the theater. It gets to it. You can't explain to those who say, well, it's just a building, it's not a building. Something is in there that I suspect if I was closer to the Lord, I'd probably feel the same in a church, and I do get some of that feeling in those buildings. But it's beyond that. It's an amplified version of that inside every theatre or performance space, wherever it might be.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm liking the fact that the theatre is a sort of storytelling cathedral, so I completely get that where anything is possible. It's a bit like its own clearing, yeah, nice. So, although you've given me a choice of three, shall we agree that we're going to be in the auditoria?

Speaker 2:

Let's do that. It's your show, you can choose Now. You've turned down the beach, you've turned down the bed. What you've got then is a wonderful, empty Delphont-McIntosh theatre.

Speaker 1:

And there could be a play like Chekhov's the Seagull, going on just to give you that back, and there could be a bed. Anyway, thank you, thank you. I'm now going to arrive on the theater strand with a tree in your clearing to shake your tree a bit, waiting for goddo-esque, deliberately. And I'm going to shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out. How do you like these apples? And then this is where you're going to respond to the. You've had five minutes, martin clarkson, to have thought about four things that have shaped you, you know, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention and borrow from the film up that's where the squirrels are going to come in. And then a quirky or unusual fact about you. It's not a memory test, but just curate us through the shaking of your canopy as you see fit so the four are four things that shaped.

Speaker 2:

Again, I'm going to break the rule slightly. I I've got three that are probably more important than four. So I'm going to break the rules slightly. I I've got three that are probably more important than four, so I'm going to go with those. And, and the first is comedy. And I say that because I I love comedy and it's not just having tommy cooper on the wall. I I think comedic narrative or comedic audio is part of the way that we relate to each other and I learned at a very early age.

Speaker 2:

My parents moved me up to Scotland when I was six. We were in Staffordshire. I got a very strong Staffordshire accent and when I got up to Scotland I was not forgiven for Bannockburn. I didn't understand at the time, but 13,14, it appears we demolished the Scots. I think they got their own back at Flodden Field and of course, in the 50s it was probably closer to the year of Bannockburn than it is now and they were still really feeling rough about it.

Speaker 2:

So this little six-year-old was knocked about terribly, mainly because he was a sassanac, he spoke funny and he was the problem of the loss at Bannockburn and the only way I could get out of it because I wasn't a fighter or a struggler.

Speaker 2:

In fact I've never I don't think I think my family would say I've never I've struggled to do any of that well, but comedy was a wonderful way of getting around people and I found that even the worst of the ringleaders would be softened and smile and realize that although he's a bit strange and he talks funny, he's quite entertaining so he can be forgiven and I think that stayed with me through life and certainly through the Marks and Spencer era. I think I realized that in life there's ability and presentability and the two do have a relationship and I fear that if you haven't got enough ability, there are days when people with little ability but lots of presentability get away with it, and I'm not a fan. But similarly I worry that people who've got massive ability but don't have enough presentability are not being heard. So comedy is a wonderful key to help you bond those pieces together, so I've adored it. It's been a big part of my number four on your tree.

Speaker 1:

That's very, very relatable and resonant because I, similarly my parents, moved around quite a lot. I grew up in Uganda, but I would a survival mechanism would be to rely on comedy as well.

Speaker 2:

That's very relatable yeah, and it's good, isn't it? I mean, it's better to lean on than comedy. It's a wonderful way of having a connection when you're with people. I think the second one is my, my, my parents that the values they gave me and I'm saying this now because at the time I don't think I realized it and sadly they're both gone now Well, they've hardly gone, they're sitting in two tubs over in the corner, but they're listening this morning. Hang on, yeah, I'm on it now. So the values they gave me, I think they're sort of percolating through now. I think I'm realizing and it's probably because of doing this great work in thinking about balance again, for the who, what, why of who you are, they shouldn't interfere with how Children and when you leave home. The how is yours, but who you are, what you do and why you do it is enormously shaped by your parents before you move on. So I think I thank them for giving me my balance and then the freedom of balance to focus on the things that matter most, which was good.

Speaker 1:

Third one it's so delightful, by the way, how you're playing it forward with the balance based on the values they imbued you with. I love that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, thank you for that. Thank you for forgiving me for that, because there's nothing more relevant than balance today and I'm going to bore everyone with it and wrap up a bit of comedy around it, but it will still be centerpiece. The third one is the film South Pacific, because it was, I think, eight or nine years old. It's a cinema in Sockie Hall Street, glasgow, and the arrival of something we'd only just got used to colour we hadn't got colour on television yet and it was called Cinerama. And Cinerama sort of took a film and stretched it and it was the same film. So when you went it filled a wider wall of the cinema and you had to move your head to look at it. It was a sort of Wimbledon watch of watching a movie and it was a bit blurry really because it was designed to be stretched. But it got to me in a way. I couldn't get to sleep that night and I knew that anything in theatre and performance which hadn't been part of my family at all, I think my great, my grandfather, possibly had done a little bit of playing at the local social club, but he was forgiven now and the lawyers have moved on and it wasn't in the family until I had that moment and it changed me.

Speaker 2:

And it's not just South Pacific, it's the sense of it all. It's interesting Mel and I are working at the moment with the Society of London Theatre and the two chief executives there recently arrived, claire and Hannah, who are doing a wonderful job for UK Theatre, have set a very high bar target that every child in the UK should visit the theatre before the age of 15. And of course there's lots of skeptics around saying no, please. But actually the focus of what they're trying to do is perfect. If we can get every child to have a chance to be in a performance space and be inspired by what I enjoyed when I watched that film back in the 60s. It does something. It's not inviting everyone to go into the theatre, far from that but it just sparks an emotion in there that just might not yet have been lit and it has to be lit in every child at some stage. So those are my three rather than the four.

Speaker 1:

Beautifully shaped, lovely shapeage. Thank you very much indeed. Now we're on to three things, which you can break the rules off too, if you like. Three things that inspire you, martin Clarkson.

Speaker 2:

Well, one of them is going to be theatre again, if it can be. We're not getting too bored with theatre, but there is one theatre show that everyone should see. It's performed in a theatre in America called Radio City Music Hall in New York, and it happens every Christmas and it's called the Radio City Musical Spectacular Christmas Show and it lasts. By the way, this theatre I call it a theatre. It seats nearly 8,000 people, 8,000. Wow, the stage is out of this world. You might see it on television when they do the Tony Awards from there Stunning 8,000. They do four shows a day and it's sold out. And they do it from early December to early January.

Speaker 2:

New York has to go to the Radio City Music Hall. It's a straight-through show, no interval, an hour and 15 minutes and it's to die for. It is a scale that you just can't believe. The orchestra comes out of the pit, travels onto the stage and then disappears into the flies. A full 45-piece orchestra. The hydraulics are out of this world. It ends with a nativity show and the nativity play is performed with. There's a herd of sheep on. They're not called herd. Well, they flock, isn't it? Thank you, there's a flock of sheep. There's maybe a herd of sheep. It's theater. There's a flock of sheep on the hillside real sheep and the and the. The wise men come in on. Real camels, the, I. The show is of a scale that's just ridiculous.

Speaker 1:

Have you just seen the ones? No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2:

In my M&S days I used to go to the executive involved in signing off travel budgets and say it's Christmas in New York again. I feel there's a lot of inspiration I should be looking for. I'll be looking at the windows layouts and go good idea, do you mind going again? You've been for the past 10 years. No, I can do it. No, it's kind of you, but that's my role.

Speaker 2:

I'll do it thank you for not taking me when I met you so I go and arrive and book a ticket for radio city music hall and obviously do all the other good things that I was there to do, but it was a great opportunity. So that's number one, and I think the second is a bit more generic. It's I'm inspired by inspirational performance and by the way that can belong to anybody. I mean you can go and see the recent Andrew doing Vanya or the Prime Officia. I mean, some of these pieces and NT Live do them beautifully are wonderful. But actually it's not just that, it's chief executives and senior players that have worked with.

Speaker 2:

There are moments when you watch and I think what inspires me is the ingredients of a performance like that. Someone has really thought and shaped the piece. The second thing they've done is they've thought about the audience and you've got to do both If you're going to have a successful performance. It's not about how good you are. It's about just considering who is it that's on the receiving end and then bringing those two together in an inspirational way. And you know when it's happening.

Speaker 2:

And I know you know when it's happening because if you're receiving it and you're watching the room, there's a stillness. It's a spooky stillness. It's like you want to pierce it because it feels something's not right, but no one can move. It's a sort of paralysis while this performance is going on. So inspirational performance, it can happen at any time. I was at the stage conference last week and there was a wonderful young man talking about climate change and talking climate change at a theater conference. There was a lot of looking at bags and checking the programme to see what was next going on when he began but in an instant he grabbed everyone in the room and you couldn't hear and it was a standing ovation when he left and that is a moment I think I'll always be inspired by. You never know when they're going to happen. They happen a lot and they happen across all walks of life beautifully put.

Speaker 1:

I thought that was wonderful. Okay, now I believe we're on to, uh, the random squirrels. So what? What are your monsters of distraction squirrels? And that's borrowed from the film up, by the way. Yes, what never fails to distract you.

Speaker 2:

This is lovely. I am a master of being distracted. I have an honours degree in being Hang on a minute, Chris. No, I do have an honours, and it's distressing to everyone that works around me. I know it is, and unless it's the moments before it's delivery time, I'm very easy to lose my focus and it really hurts. I know, in my days as storytellers with my colleagues and sorry, let me go back to my M&S days I remember one or two of them pulling me up and saying Martin, you've got to realize not everyone's wired this way. You keep disappearing and then you'll come back a few moments you keep going to.

Speaker 2:

New York and Storytellers was the same, and I know my working with Mel on Create Balance. It's infuriating because I am the worst at distractions. Now the opposite is unfoundly and unjust. Once I found the space, I'm very irritated by anyone that distracts so you're like an inverted squirrel. You don't like other people's squirrels so it's very sad, this, isn't it? So on one hand I'm so guilty, but once it's my moment and I'm ready to go, please don't distract that's so you can, you can give squirrel, but you can't take.

Speaker 1:

It is what you're saying that's what I love really.

Speaker 2:

Can we say that? I think so I'll have to write that down. You know it's going to disturb me. I'll think about it either in the theater, on a beach or in bed. I could give squirrel.

Speaker 1:

But you can't take it. Have that for free as a bit of feedback. Feedback's always a gift. And now is there a second squirrel.

Speaker 2:

No, no, I'm fine. Well, it was a squirrel of two halves.

Speaker 1:

I'm the distractor, but I don't enjoy being distracted Quite right too. And now a quirkier unusual fact about you, martin Clarkson. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

Speaker 2:

I think you gave it away a little bit earlier, but you know it and not a lot of others do, is that? Yeah, I was around Sooty the puppet many, many years ago. It was the era of Harry Corbett, so it's before he passed over to Matthew. Harry Corbett had a fascinating relationship with Sooty, and I mean that in a wonderful way. I remember one evening at the theatre he used to tow a caravan and he put the caravan in the theatre car park and he'd live in the caravan. And I remember one evening he realised he'd left Sooty inside the theatre in the cold and the dark and he had the theatre reopened to get Sooty out back into the caravan, because they'd always stay together and the show was getting larger at the time that I came across them and therefore there were more puppeteers working the puppets, so there were several Sooties in the show.

Speaker 2:

Now, for those who remember Sootie, I hope we're not breaking the world of Sootie, but there were several Sooties in the show. So before every show Harry got all the puppeteers together and they put on their Sootie and he got everyone to wave like Sootie, bow like sooty and cry like sooty Because, as he kept insisting, when you get out there to every child who's watching, there's one sooty, and that one sooty is the sooty they love, they follow, they adore, and it must always be that one sooty. And, if I may, that's almost back to balance again, isn't it? Because Harry was very clever with Sooty. We'd see Sooty's how Sooty would be going to the Wild West or off to the moon. Their adventures were endless. But the who, what, why of Sooty, that personality, that DNA, that spine of Sooty, was absolutely solid. That's what he was making sure of before every single show. Sooty had to be Sooty. And so it's another create balance reference. I'm afraid, chris, that's number four.

Speaker 1:

I love that connection and the through line of that Everything you've ever done is all playing forward into this new clearing for you. Your create balance clearing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I feel it, though I feel it, so it's not as if it's a put on state. I'm so excited. Relevance, the whole sense of balance, is so relevant today.

Speaker 1:

It reminds me so much of that quote, which is you've prepared your entire life for this moment and and everything you're doing is here now and it's pulling you towards your future. And now, um, thank you for that. We've shaken your tree, hurrah. Next we talk about alchemy and gold. Please, um, when you're at purpose and in flow, you might have inferred this already, but what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Speaker 2:

um, well, this is gonna feel. I don't want this to feel like an ego trip, um, but I know I've got an ego, by the way, because you, I understand, and it's reflected in the wall. But I love feeling relevant and I hate feeling irrelevant and that's a joy that I think I don't know whether it started through childhood or maybe it was part of the anti-Bannockburn campaign with the bullets on the ashy path at the primary school but finding relevance and feeling relevant and again, as a performer and I know you get the same you know that moment when a room, whether it's an audience, whether it's a theater, whoever when it's with you, it's a sensational feeling. I can't, it creeps up. Whether it's a theater, whoever when it's with you, it's a sensational feeling. I can't, it creeps up.

Speaker 2:

You begin a performance and you're the same when you're doing your sessions and I've watched you do them on storytelling you do them superbly well and you work, I know, with a room that's full of a mix People who are delighted, people who are open to what you want to say, a little scattering of skepticism in one corner and then, as it develops, the room seems to morph into a warm hum and it's with you and what that hum is saying is this is relevant. Thank you for telling us this.

Speaker 1:

So the hum of a warm beehive, the hive mind, the sort of resonance of connectivity.

Speaker 2:

That's a lovely phrase. Yeah, I may steal that. The resonance of connectivity is a lovely feeling, and when you're relevant and saying something of use, I mean the opposite is appalling, isn't it? And there are those moments when you know it's not gone as well, or the sceptics win and it all goes the wrong way. But happiest place was your question, and I think that's always my happiest place, when what you're doing, what you're saying, is of value.

Speaker 1:

It's the most sublime interpretation of alchemy or alchemistry turning into gold, and that gold is the moment of the resonance of connection. And now, bless your cotton socks. I award you with a cake now, Mr Martin Clarkson. So first of all, do you like?

Speaker 2:

cake. Sorry, can we just stop, because you always do that very. Could you just hold it up? So, because I've watched this on several of these broadcasts. What is it made of?

Speaker 1:

I think it's a doggy cake. I just Googled cake and then I was thinking of a carrot cake with a cherry on top, and then this was the first thing that Google popped up.

Speaker 2:

And is the cherry sewn on?

Speaker 1:

Yes, my cherry is sewn on. Ah, thank you, I was talking Googling, by the way I forgot to mention. I really enjoy Googling my guests. Did you know that who and what comes up if you just Google Martin Clarkson, did you know that who and what comes up?

Speaker 1:

if you just Google Martin Clarkson, the first thing that comes up. No, no, I don't. No, you are Martin Clarkson. I started the hobby of wood whittling in 2003 after I got a lathe for Christmas, so you're a wood turner of great repute. And what he does share with both of us in common he's a lovely, delightful man, and he said he's available at very short notice to travel throughout UK and Europe. That's me and you. I love that. So Google martinclarksoncom and that comes up.

Speaker 2:

Tell me it's too late in the day to ask you this, but I have to and we're live, so I can't not ask. Are you just discovering you booked the wrong Martin Clarkson?

Speaker 1:

No, are you just discovering you booked the wrong martin clogs? No, for an extra four pound fifty I got you, which was just awesome, so thank you very much. You are the one and only, but I thought it's.

Speaker 2:

It was the comedy of just going a bit lateral, um, because you can I say on behalf of your audience because some of us have been listening to this show a lot we could do with a wood whittler. It would know it would bring something. I think that would just move this on for you.

Speaker 1:

We're thinking yes and I love a good, I love a good whittle, and he's got some great images of what he's whittled. So, um right, he helps us, help us, helps us all to sharpen our tools as well, which is again brilliant for storytelling. Anyway, sorry, uh, I've got a bell for tangents. Cashierier number four, please. So if that was my fault, I went down a rabbit hole. Back to the cake. Do you want to ask anything else about my cake?

Speaker 2:

No, no, I'm happy with it now. I just wanted us all to see it, because it only has to have a fleeting appearance.

Speaker 1:

Lovely. It's nice, isn't it? So you get to put a cherry on the cake now. So this is stuff like I mean. First of all, what type of cake would you like me to furnish you with?

Speaker 2:

Oh, birthday cake, please, because they're surrounded with happy moments, aren't they? Birthday cakes are happy cakes. Surely Everyone has a happy moment.

Speaker 1:

Bless you for your segues. I've got a new series, jan, which is called the Big Birthday Show, so it's about wrapping the show around someone who's got a big birthday coming up. So, yes, that's a natural segue.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's lovely.

Speaker 1:

Enough of your show there's time Back to you. So this is stuff like now. The cherry on the cake is what's the favourite inspirational quote, martin, that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future.

Speaker 2:

I think there are two that have been used a lot. One we used and it was an interesting one, going back to the days of M&S, when we did or didn't listen to what was going on and the lovely phrase is the answer is always in the room. And when I began working in all those days in the 60s, when a leader spoke, the first thing you did is you got a piece of paper and a pen and you wrote it down leader speaking quiet, please and you'd write it down. And as we turned the millennium we realized there was a new breed of leader that was arriving, a leader for the first time who had the courage to say I don't have the answers, who had the courage to say I don't have the answers, but I think the answers and I know the answer is in the room, the skill is now finding it and suddenly there was a wider voice and those who are enjoying business and organization life in certainly the last two decades have seen an ever-increasing conversation happening, a conversation that certainly I never enjoyed in the pre-turn-of-the-century days. It didn't happen. So I think that's positive, but I think the audience has also changed.

Speaker 2:

So the second quote that I often use is people today only do what they believe in. People today only do what they believe in, but they only believe what they discover for themselves. Now, that's now saying it's not just the leader saying I'm going to have to discover it. Everyone now is saying I'm going to discover it, which means I can't send you an email or a set of instructions. I can't stand and read you today. This is what we're going to do. You have to discover. And again, when we're doing work with Create Balance, the joy is not just deciding who you are, what you do, why you do it and then how we're going to do it. The how then in workshop format, belongs to everybody in the room, and it has to, because you can't tell people. It has to be the best. So that phrase, you only do today what you believe in and you only believe what you discover for yourselves Don't take that lightly. That's a truism, and conversations have to be the way to bring people together and move forward.

Speaker 1:

And the best way to galvanize and get everyone to ascribe to a common purpose because of the why that sits at the center of that.

Speaker 2:

Totally yes, A common purpose, particularly. I mean it's a given, it's there, it's the spine. But what does it mean to you, Unless you begin to think of that and look at it and say every one of you, what does that mean? We know who we are and our values. What do they mean to you? Because unless you interpret what they mean, you've not absorbed them, they're not yours, so you've got to be allowed to discover it for yourself. And the create balance process we do does lots of that across the organization.

Speaker 1:

What's the best piece of advice, Martin Clarkson, you've ever been given?

Speaker 2:

Look, there must have been an awful lot. It's been several years now, chris, and I'm sure you get me many in your day and everyone I've worked with, but I want to go back to the year 1968. And I'd failed two auditions for television. I tried to be a stand up comedian. I'd done several pieces without my parents knowledge of getting into an industry that I wanted to get into and failed. And it was my mother who said if you fail this next audition, to whatever it was, will you go to whatever is? On the back of this newspaper ad where she'd ripped it out and it said Arx and Spencer. And I promised then that if I fail this, I'll go to this. Is that by the high street shop that you get your underwear? Yeah, oh, okay, I'll go and talk to them.

Speaker 2:

And of course I didn't get the audition. So I went in to keep my word to meet this manager in Paisley, marks and Spencer, and I explained my life story to him and he said so, if you want to perform to people, why do you think you only perform on a stage? Perform to people, why do you think you only perform on a stage? What a great opportunity, he said. We've got 274 stores here with a square footage of about three or four million square feet. They would love you performing. 27 million people a week come through these doors what bigger audience can I give you? And he was wonderful at talking me into the biggest gig, which was being a floor walker, as they called it at Marks and Spencer, and I took the job. I took the job and 45 years later I retired from there, having had a wonderful, a wonderful life performing welcome to the cathedral of knickers.

Speaker 1:

That is marx and spencer and that. What a great thing. The audience was there for you. How perfect. Yeah, and similar vein, but slightly different. What, um? What notes, help or advice might you proffer to a younger version of yourself with the beautiful gift of hindsight?

Speaker 2:

now. Oh, I mentioned my grandfather, um, a short while ago and I don't remember too much of him. I wish I'd got more. I mean, today, with video cameras, we must all of us take as much as we can of those who aren't going to be here forever. But I remember him telling me one story.

Speaker 2:

He said he was worried about me in certain ways, I think, and he said, martin, if there was a bank that gave you £1,440 every morning and you had to spend that every day, and what you didn't spend, the bank would take it away in the evening, but they'll redeposit it the following morning, another £1,440. And I said, what, granddad? I would plan every part of that. I would know exactly what I'm going to spend. In the morning I would be doing the calculation spend it, I would get to £1,440. And then the next day I'd have a budget ready for that. I'd use it. Well, I said, wait a moment, there's no such bank. And he said there is. It's called time. Every day you're given 1,440 minutes. How you spend them is up to you, but I promise at the end of the day, if you've not spent them, they're gone and we'll re-bank it the following day. You can't carry any over. You can't save. Use them as you can and I've used that story a few times because, as it's a terrible line, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

As you get older, as you get. But you do realize how precious time is. We get one shot at this and the only person who's really really truly responsible for you is you. And in early life you can take an awful lot of time or waste a lot of time believing that someone else is looking after you. I don't know who that someone else is. I thought there was someone else for a long time, but I never stopped to think who it might be, and the truth is it's not. It's a Wizard of Oz moment. You've got to discover there is no Wizard of Oz, it's you. And once you do that, you use your time, or you are more careful use of time, and it's joyous because I sense you get a better feeling of the value of time. So, yeah, I think that's a learning that I'd love to leave in the clearing with you if I could.

Speaker 1:

Perfect, and now we're ramping up to a bit of Shakespeare. But just before we get there, this is the pass the golden baton moment, please. So who would you most like now you've experienced it from within yourself who would you most like to pass the golden baton along to, in order to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going?

Speaker 2:

Well, Eric Morecambe or Tommy Cooper would be obvious. I think Eric Morecambe would be a wonderful guest for you, Chris. Outside that, you'll need to get back to me. I will have a thought about it, though.

Speaker 1:

Sure Okay, and if you can furnish me with Stan Laurel as well, perfect.

Speaker 2:

Of course, no, let's. I know you've only got 45 seconds or so left, but Stan Laurel is your all-time hero, isn't he? He certainly is.

Speaker 2:

And I should tell you I never met Eric Morecambe In fact I'm sadly going to his wife, jo Morecambe's funeral this afternoon. I did meet Ernie Wise and I spent quite a lot of time with Ernie, and Laurel and Hardy were an enormous inspiration to them, enormous, and if they'd been doing your show, the two of them somewhere before you got to Squirrels would have said Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy were big parts of what made them get the shape and, if I may, it's getting the balance of the partnership in a duo. Yes, and again it is that who, what, why has to stay solid. And then the how, what you do as a duo is remarkable and and more common, wise, were really clear about what they could do and what they couldn't do, and they borrowed that very much from laurel and hardy yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

He informs everything. Stan laurel, actually to this day, which is fantastic. Um, okay, so now we're at the complete works of shakespeare, borrow from the seven ages of man's speech. All the worlds are staged, all the bitter women merely players. This is about legacy. Finally, martin clarkson, when all is said and done, how would you most like to be remembered?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love the Shakespeare. The Shakespeare's are good, aren't they? When Shakespeare could work for so many I mean, romeo and Juliet is mergers and acquisitions you could move Shakespeare into modern corporate and you could get back to doing what you're doing. When I met you, it would be so good.

Speaker 2:

We talk a lot of legacy when we do create balance, because it's important that you do take a moment to think on your watch, what have we achieved and what are you going to be remembered for? And it's important in any wage of life and if you're an organization that wants to succeed and move forward, the team have got to think about that. That's part of the whole successional, it's part of evolving. So what would I like to? Well, you know, when people say We've talked about people who have passed on this morning, because you do, because some of them are hanging on the wall. And when people say to you do you remember so-and-so, I notice people always go oh yes, and they do that with a. That's a reminisce which means the person's coming back in their head. Then they go into an expression which reflects what they remember. So oh yeah, or oh yes. He was a bit odd, wasn't he? Well, I would love the martin clarkson remedies.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yes, and a smile lovely that would be enough where can we find out all about martin clarkson? Create balance, whatever you'd like to point us to on the old interweb, please.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's there. It's on the wwwcreatebalancecom and you'll find it and you'll have lots of opportunity to read what we've been up to and some case studies. And for you, chris, and indeed for anyone else watching right at the bottom there, there's a little zing you can do and you can get our mailing list, which is going to be a regular mailing list of all that's going on in the world of Create Balance. Let's make balance. Relevant is the campaign.

Speaker 1:

Lovely as this has been your moment in the sunshine, in the good, listening to share stories of distinction and genius Brandstrand founder story.

Speaker 2:

Is there anything else you'd like to say, martin clarkson I'd love to go back to where we uh began as we come to a close, chris, because in truth, although for the audience we've been saying, isn't it good to get you and I lost touch with each other. And we lost touch with each other during the storyteller days because we made a foolish error we hired a chief executive I'm not going to name him because we'll have a lawyer chasing the program but he was atrocious. He destroyed the business. He lost lots of our good people, you included, and he proved to me.

Speaker 2:

It was a David Attenborough program I watch, where when a new lion takes over the pride, the first thing he does is kill the cubs, and that's what this creature did. He arrived in our pride and he killed all the cubs. So we lost the best of our people and our associates. Fortunately, we survived the whole piece and chased the lion away to bother somebody else's pride, and we recovered and enjoyed wonderful success. But I go back to those days because I'm sad that you and I lost our way at that time and there were several others through that. What I'm adoring is the fact that in the years that have followed we've rebuilt again, and I think that's another lesson for all of us to take away is nothing is forever. If there is an upset, it's down to you to fix it, and usually when you do, you find that it's met on both sides with an urgent need for a new embrace.

Speaker 1:

Beautifully put and thank you for that great generosity. That was a lovely thing for you to close with, so it's been an absolute treat and a delight to have you here. Thank you for watching on LinkedIn. If you have been doing too. This has been the adorable natural storyteller natural born storyteller, mr Martin Clarkson.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much. It's been a real pleasure. As I said on the note, it's been an eternity waiting for it, Chris, but eventually you made the invite. I'm delighted.

Speaker 1:

Lovely, and if there's any way you can furnish me with Michael Palin in the future of time, that would be another dream come true. You've been listening to the Good Listening To Show here on UK Health Radio with me Chris Grimes oh, it's my son. If you've enjoyed the show, then please do tune in next week to listen to more stories from the clearing. If you'd like to connect with me on linkedin, then please do so. There's also a dedicated facebook group for the show too. You can contact me about the program or, if you'd be interested in experiencing some personal impact coaching with me, care of my level up your impact program.

Speaker 1:

That's chris at second curve dot uk on twitter and instagram. It's at that, chris grimes. So until next time for me, chris grimes, from uk health rodeo, and from stan to your good health. And goodbye, martin clarkson. You've been given a damn good listening to. It is an absolute delight to reconnect and thank you for those lovely, warm words of reconnectivity. At the end then I right back at you happy, happy smoke both ways. Could I just ask for your immediate feedback? What was that like being curated through this journey? How was that for you being in this show?

Speaker 2:

Well, firstly, it's a joy because you are a lovely host. You leave a lot of time for the guests to actually get across some of the things that you're asking. By the way, I have to say a lot of hosts haven't learned that yet. Hosts sometimes believe that 75% of the show is theirs. You're hugely generous. I love the structure of it as well, because there's a little bit of pre-prep that then possible. That helps for those that need it. But I would advise anyone doing it try and just take it at face value. Do a little bit of prep of the structure, but not all the answers, and then you'll find it a really enjoyable experience I have Wonderful.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for that. Stop recording.