Welcome to another episode of "The Good Listening To" Podcast with me Chris Grimes!
And in the "GLT Clearing" today: Actress, Facilitator & Coach - Wendy Bagger (or as I like to call her "Bendy Wagger"!) speaking to me from her home in the Rocky Mountains!
In her "Clearing", she describes it beautifully as being the "crescendo moment - just at the end of a joyful and gutteral laugh with good friends - where you wish it would never stop!"
She also shares a delicious quote from actor Alan Alda (most famous for being Hawkeye Pierce in M*A*S*H) about the nature of "good acting" and the true quality of "good listening":
"Listen as though what the person says to you is about to change your life..."
Wendy describes her joy of teaching people to communicate - authentically - letting their own personality be enough.
"I come from a performance background with a BA in Theatre Arts from the University of Nevada Las Vegas, and a Masters in Fine Art in Acting from Ohio State University. So I understand the pressure of being the one in the spotlight that everyone is looking to for a clear story. And I understand the power of storytelling to make your messages memorable and engaging and easy to follow.
Authenticity, connection, and clarity are the foundations of great communication, no matter what profession you're in. And for the last decade, I have been helping people demystify the art of communicating. I've been coaching, training, and developing courses that help people overcome their nerves, connect more deeply to their content and their listener, and create messages that resonate beyond the conference room table".
A wonderful delight of a rich conversation indeed!
So - thanks for listening to another episode of a "GLT with me CG!"
The Podcast series that features "The Clearing": Where all good questions come to be asked and all good stories come to be told!
With some lovely juicy storytelling metaphors to also enjoy along the way:
The Clearing itself - A Tree (where we get to "shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out, in the form of a lovely storytelling exercise called "5-4-3-2-1") - some Alchemy - some Gold - and finally a Cake with a Cherry on Top!
Think "Desert Island Discs" but in a Clearing!
Also think about William Shakespeare:
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages..."
Jaques: Act II Scene VII
And as my Guest in the Podcast: Now is your 'moment in the sunshine' to share your story!
Who are you? What's your story? And what 'life-lessons-learned-along-the-way' would you like to share with us? And just to get bit "existential on yo ass" too (!) what would you like your legacy t
Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.
Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)
Thanks for listening!
back in to the Good.
Listening To Podcast Clearing!
And delighted today to welcome to the "GLT Clearing"
Miss Wendy Bagger.
I hope you won't mind me referring to her.
There's a spoonerism,
just all set to give there. I call her Bendy Wagger.
She may not,
may not like me doing that,
but we can find out.
So this is the lovely Wendy Bagger,
who is an actress famous for repertory stuff,
but also film stuff as well.
There's either I Googled you because I can.
There's something about Command and Conquer in there that I'd quite like to talk about at some point.
and "Believe My Voice".
And we have Working Voices in common,
which is the awesome global communication skills consultancy thang!
really excited to speak to you. Also your hair post pandemic.
I just complimented you is far longer and more majestic a mane
Yes, it's more majestic a mane than I remember.
I actually, I learned about nine months ago that I have wavy hair.
And so I started to like,
do the whole curly girl thing.
If anybody has curly hair,
they know the curly girl method,
which is a pain in the tuchus.
In the ass
and then it just kept growing since the pandemic.
Since I haven't had a chance to get a haircut.
And I was joking earlier that now that I live in Colorado,
it might just be that Colorado is turning me into a Sasquatch
or Yeti. Depends
are the the Globe from?
And I saw a comic mean recently in a group that we both part off called #LolVirus,
which is the one about Bigfoot,
which is very short light with an enormous foot.
It was I thought you'd be a bit taller,
You're a Sasquatch, kumquat,
Watch what squash.
You're looking awesome and um.
Over the years that I've known you,
you've had very different shaped glasses over time.
And if I may,
this is a compliment.
You've also always reminded me off almost like a far side Larsen
because used to have pointy frames that the used to have a pointy framed spectacle when I first met you.
I'm going for a little bit of ah,
a leopard print. A little zhuzh.
If I had your hair would look like I was trying to be Charles the first or the second or something like that.
I had had a makeup class in
in university like stage makeup class,
and we had to do cross gender make up one time.
And so I decided to put a moustache on my face, and it turns out
with a moustache.
I look exactly like Charles Manson.
not Charles the first or second.
But Charles Manson's okay,
And by the way,
I've always thought of you as being really sharp really clear,
obviously in what we do.
But also you've got a really,
really sharp sense of humour,
which I've always enjoyed a sort of bathing in the times that I've met you.
And also you have a great, erm, you did something very helpful
during the pandemic. Of all the various comic things going into
I uploaded something that I didn't really think very much about.
Then you're the person that went "Er,"
and we can talk about that if you like,
because it was it was just a really interesting debate started in my head
about the the boundaries andthe parameters of where funny doesn't become funny,
and I know it's totally subjective.
And then there's a bigger picture.
Do you know that thing I'm talking about even?
Yeah, I do, I do.
The Black Lives Matter parody.
And it was an interesting moment for me, too,
because I don't typically sort of call out things that
I think might be inappropriate.
It's not my style.
I'm not very assertive.
And to find a voice for that,
I think what's really important.
So I appreciate how graciously you you, you accepted that.
But also it's that idea of when someone's very, very, very accommodating in all things comedy and humor,
then suddenly you get something called out.
It's really very profound.
The impact one can have if you suddenly go hang on a minute.
Need to think about that again and just explain,
The low virus group has been responding to the pandemic because I got going
with it as a way of leaning into the comedy flexing a comedy muscle and then obviously there's
been a very profound summer globally,
but also the Black Lives Matter movement is hugely profound,
impactful and important,
and there was just this mean that arrived which was "Black Lives Matter,"
and then somebody in a graffiti context just replaced on O or just wrote an
O in front of the L,
which turned it into "Black Olives Matter."
And what was really interesting is the idea that you could make a really profound
global slogan of a cause almost benign with one letter of the alphabet,
which is where I was coming from,
and then and then it was really int-
I didn't get going in the group to either explain,
justify or defend.
It was just a really interesting moment in Hang on a minute.
I do need to think that's true,
because I'm not the demographic that this is meant to be the cause of
And I I knew exactly where you're coming from. It was a fun play of language,
and it didn't make something feel benign.
we aren't the one to get to,
um, what am I looking for?
We aren't the ones that get to disarm that.
And so if I may, thank you,
I thought that was a profoundly
So thank you for that.
And also in seeing you,
it's so lovely to see you again because obviously, we do have Working Voices in common,
and it's probably been a good year and a half or so since we've been in the same
complex delivering a programme.<br>
At the very least, yeah.<br>
it's always great to see you too.
I like your like a warm beam of sunshine.
It's good to get to be in front of.
You're very lovely and also you are so generous.
When I first asked you "Would you please come into the clearing?"
You said, "Oh gosh,
"I've watched a couple of and it seems like having a a day spa for my brain."
So I'll take that.
There's a wonderful compliment.
So I bid you several welcomes.
You're speaking from Boulder, Colorado.
That's very exciting. And the enigmatic Sasquatch Squatch that is Wendy Bagger.
And do you mind that I call you Bendy Wagger,
by the way,
Not at all.
I love having nickname the It's just a expression
so I'm always grateful
By the way the New York team Jen Ryan Perry Logue
calls me Grimesy,
and I love that.
But not everyone in my life can call me Grimesy.
Sometimes it's been very insulting in my life.
It's very interesting again.
The notion of whether something fits,
depending on the intent behind it, I suppose, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. That is interesting.
I'm getting all profound on both of our asses here,
That was the longest introduction in history.
So when when someone doesn't have a context for you and just arrives at you next to a dinner
table or something in a dinner party turns to you and does that clunky thing we've all
Who are you?
What do you do?
What's your favourite way of answering that rather blunt question?
what do you do?
um it is an awkward question.
And so I I like to say that I am an
incredibly awkward human who helps other
awkward humans feel less awkward.
And I do that by,
coaching them mostly during presentations and some leadership.
But it's Yeah,
it's teaching people to communicate authentically,
letting their own personality be enough when they communicate.
I love that answer and forgive the bluntness of the in your face.
But that was such a graceful way to be generous to the person or people that say that to us.
Way of answering that so that's that's a beautiful answer right there.
So welcome to the clearing.
First of all,
we're going to take you into a clearing them.
I'm going to shake your tree to see which apples fall out,
as is the normal route map of the storytelling metaphors of this idea of this programme.
Then we'll talk about alchemy and gold,
and then I'll give you a cake at the end of it.
So bringing you first of all to a clearing metaphorically or
What is a clearing like for you?
Where do you go to get innovative,
Clear and focused?
there is literally a clearing that is a block
away from my house.
um I'm right at the foot of the Rocky Mountains,
And there is a pasture,
that I can walk through to get a little exercise and move my body,
which is nice. he only downside is it is actually active
pasture land person for some ranchers who own the plot.
So I have to be careful of cows.
And worrying the cows.
There are some really longhorn ones, there are two of them
and they watch you when you get there.
So there's there's the physical clearing that I actually do walkthrough,
particularly during the pandemic.
What was also looking at this as,
how do I, how do I get clear or when do I feel clearest,
and a clearing out of?
I would say after a really good
hard laugh with friends,
right? The kind of laugh that just makes you cry and it hurts.
And you think it may never end this particular thing that you're laughing at.
So I guess I had imagined I would just have had one of these fantastic laughs
near a cow in the pasture.
What a--laughter and comedy in adversity and a way of resetting
factory default settings.
I just love that.
What a great answer.
So if I may,
I'm going to join you as you come to the crescendo of your laughing at the point when you're going
"Ah ha ha... oh dear."
So I'm arriving with a tree now into your clearing.
I'm going to shake your tree to see which apples fall out.
And as you know,
when do you've had as long as you needed to think about four things in the exercise called 54321
it's five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you.
three things that inspire you,
two things that never failed to--Huh! Squirrels! -- Get your attention,
and then one quirky or unusual fact about you that we couldn't
possibly know about you until you tell us.
So they don't all have to come
hurtling down together. The law of gravity you can shake those apples and go on the
However you'd like to interpret that.
Wo there's a thing that happens in my head,
a huge part of my coaching,
which is in my doing this right.
And I've watched other versions and everybody starts with what shape them.
And I'm like,
Should I do that,
or should I rebel like I don't actually know what I should do.
So here's what I'm gonna do.
Randomness is really helpful for me in making decisions because I'm a really
So you are going to choose
right or left.
And I'm going to go left.
Left is then these are, these three things that inspire me.
my husband and I,
we planned our wedding based on a coin toss.
It was either go to see the Avengers or it was sit down and plan our wedding.
And so it turns out we had to sit down and plan our wedding that day.
You pair of superheroes right there.
so three things that inspire,
By the way I love how you said it's because you're indecisive.
I think to flip that it's a bit like you just have a joy of spontaneity rather than being
adhered to a structure.
that is true.
It's my comedy improvisation lens that read that in a different way to what you said
But I think that's a great way to frame it.
It's this constant push pull for me is I'm a real rule follower,
which sometimes I think it's really practical.
And other times it's just fear based.
And so when I consent that its fear based,
I need to break the habit,
break the disrupt the pattern,
a coin toss or randomness
will do that for me.
So I think that maybe that's something that inspires me is just this sort of
things that just happened by chance,
That couldn't have been planned that suddenly,
add a little bit of magic to a moment.
So joy of surprise.
Joy of surprise, yeah.
I'm constantly trying to guess what's happening next,
so that when I can be surprised,
it just opens up a different part of my brain.
So I'm really grateful for when that happens,
because of our acting connection as well,
if I may,
that that's what makes one, you know,
In your case I'm assuming, exceptional onstage because of the power of listening,
because you can only get to surprise if you're truly listening out for it.
So how to make a performance very spontaneous is to respond to what you've just been given.
There's a great quote from,
you know Alan Alda,
the American actor most notable for the TV series M*A*S*H*
He was asked about what makes a great actor,
and he said,
It's listening and it's listening,
as though what the person says to you
might change your life.
And I thought that that's a wonderful way to think about listening.
I don't know what you're about to say,
so when we can get into a space that actually letting
go of the expectation of what the other person is going to stay and really hear it.
It's a hard place to get to.
But I think that that's the gold.
And therein lies another clearing, actually.
Is that magic place where surprise can happen?
I'm also really inspired and moved by
people who can be honest about the struggle,
Whatever the struggle is,
I think we're all walking through life with this sort of
facade that everything is OK.
And I think social media can really propagate that right.
We're creating this version of ourselves that's uncrackable,
And the people who can who can actually crack their own facade and say,
"Look at this shit show that's happening behind here"<br>is really helpful
because I think we're all feeling that and when someone can give voice to it is
I think it breaks down the isolation that I think is a huge issue of what's happening
in the world today,
not just with the pandemic,
but with communicating through social media and for me
I don't always know how I feel like I just know I feel something,
and when someone can give vocabulary,
to what those feelings are,
Then I go,
that's what's happening in that kind of awareness can lead to at least
but also maybe it'll lead to a choice.
Now that I know what's going on.
I'm really grateful for people who can do that.
People like Brene Brown.
like in the trenches of the work that she's doing,
Do you know Anne LaMott?
No I don't.
Oh, she's wonderful.
She's this really quirky woman.
She's an author.
She's written some fiction,
but she also writes a lot about her sort of views on life and faith.
She she has a large faith,
but it's all very irreverent and quirky.
And did you say Anne Lamont?
And she is imminently quotable.
And I actually have one here to give you a sense of
of what I like about her.
and really accepts for the mess that she's in and makes sense of it and finds the meaning
behind it, right?
a really short quote of hers is that "Laughter is carbonated holiness."
And I love that. I do too.
I love that. I'm not particularly religious,
but like I understand there's a bigger picture than what I'm in.
And to have that image is really lovely.
And then there's this quote that I that I pulled up of her.
I love the sense of the mess.
the sense of the mess within that,
And Carbonated Holiness.
And so I also pulled up this quote about perfectionism because
that's one of my bugaboos,
and it also becomes a real basis of my coaching.
Is I can recognise when people are in this place of trying to be perfect
rather than just trying to be present.
And so this one says this comes from a book of hers that she wrote
about writing and people getting overwhelmed by the idea of writing a book and so
or painting a picture.
And she says,
you just do it bird by bird instead of paying the whole sky,
just take it bird at a time.
um so her book is called Bird by Bird.
Some Instructions on Writing and Life,
and this quote is
"Perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor.
It is the enemy of the people.
It will keep you cramped and insane,
your whole life and its main obstacle.
It is the main obstacle between you and your shitty first draft."
I'm like, yes!<br>
I don't want to write a shitty first draft.
I wanted to just come bubbling forth from the pen or from my
fingertips or from my mouth.
And she understands that.
And then she says,
"I think perfectionism is based on the obsessive belief that if you run carefully enough
hitting each stepping stone just right,
you won't have to die."
at least for me,
it feels like life or death,
I've got to get this right or I'm going to be exiled from the tribe.
And then I will die
That links so beautifully by the way.
And with goes about how best to prepare,
which is that we should aspire to prepare for variety.
Don't practise for perfection because if you practise for perfection,
you lock off on something and anything.
Any surprise that happens completely derails you.
So this idea of keeping spontaneity close at hand to carbonate the
And I think that that I mean,
that falls into any communication that we do.
I was recently reading the book "Never Split the Difference"
which is about negotiating written by an FBI hostage negotiator,
and he talks about
walk in with just questions because if you
come in with too strict a goal,
you're losing out on so many possible options that are better for both of you.
What's really clear here
how you have a great great enjoyment of bathing in literature and reading.
So nice quotes and thank you for sharing those.
it's a good thing I don't like to read.
I like to listen to books I'm an audiobook fiend.
And it helps,
I need to be doing more than one thing at a time.
Being able to listen to the book while I'm in my clearing with the cows or
While I'm knitting
it helps me stay engaged
than if I'm just listening or just reading.
One of the things I've done during the pandemic is I've knitted one of the world's biggest sweaters.
What, too big for you to put on or it's just It's just a sweater that just keeps on going.
It's a sweater that's quite long.
It has this long piece that goes over the shoulder and I could have I
could have just kept going until it became a mummy dressed.
So if the pandemic keeps going Someday all of the Rocky Mountains will be covered in a big thing
knitted by Wendy Bagger.
That's exactly right.
I'm doing a Rocky Mountain cozy.
You heard it first here on The Good Listening To Podcast. So we can blame you when it happens.
So we've got beautifully and caught in lovely thicket of where
we're up to with whether this is inspiring or shaping you or
so keep going wherever you want to go.
The other thing that is inspiring me right now very actively is
I'm learning to ski.
which I've never done before.
My husband is an avid skier and always has been.
And when we made the decision to move from New York,
We were getting ready to just leave the city the intensity of the city for a little while.
And he found the teaching position out here in Colorado.
One of his caveats for leaving the city was,
I need to be able to go somewhere where I can ski.
And is that teaching skiing?
Or is he teaching something else?
lighting designer for theatre and set design for theatre.
So he's teaching lighting and set design in the theatre department here in Boulder.
Did did you meet with him illuminating you?
how we met is an interesting storey.
I had a fiance for Ah,
a year or two and he and I split and it was messy the way that
that breakups are and we were
avoiding each other.
Or at least I was avoiding him for a long time.
And then there was this moment in my life where I sort of came to.
It was one of those moments of miraculous clarity about what was actually going on,
And I let go of my part of it and I let I let go of what I thought his part of it was when I
was done being mad and I called him and said,
Here we go.
This is one of those moments of spontaneity.
I called him and said,
I'm done being mad.
We can hang out in the same circles again.
I'm not actively avoiding if you want to talk about what happened.
If you don't great.
And he said,
I don't really but I'm having my birthday party.
You want to come I said,
and I went to a birthday party and I met who is now my husband,
so thanks to your own openness,
you then were present enough to just think.
I'll say yes.
Which attest your comedy Improvisational instinct.
And do you remember going thinking,
I've met somebody that I like,
Or was that a slow burn as well?
he felt that way.
I was I was a little bit less receptive.
I was looking to have,
like my my singleness,
my single empowered woman in the city,
New York City experience and I in fact,
that night I'd had this whole date with myself.
I've taken myself to,
dance piece at the French Society,
have been studying French,
I went to see this dance piece by the French artist,
and I got there,
and Mikhail Baryshnikov was in the audience who had always been
childhood heartthrob of mine.
And I was like,
I'm sitting in front of Mikhail Baryshnikov and I turned around and,
made eye contact with him for,
half a second,
so I knew his life was changed by me.
And then And then there was this amazing piece.
And then I knew I was going to this party afterward.
the birthday party.
And so I decided to take a walk through the city,
and there was a huge,
beautiful full moon in the sky.
So they took a picture of that.
And then I made my way to this party,
and I was so and this is rare for me.
So I'm not trying to brag.
This is really a notable moment.
I was so comfortable in my own skin being where I was
um I feel like,
I was able to connect in a way that was authentic and not based in fear.
Does he like me or Oh,
Is he gonna like me?
But I don't like him,
and I don't know how to put it down like it e was able to be
in that moment.
And I so loved your taking yourself on a date night before you
That was so lovely.
I've taken my dating myself.
What a great construct in concept that is.
Have you ever heard of the artist's way.
So she talked about going on artist dates.
this was going to be, this was that
without officially being that.
but I love that and just being able to be monumentally present and at ease
with oneself in a truly authentic state.
And then to free individuals choose to be together,
The only and the other instant question I have in that beautiful storeys is what was the time frame with
you doing avoidance strategy to then?
And then here we are at the party.
What was the time line?
the time when you were avoiding your ex
fiancee and you're sort of playing playing that game for a bit.
And then one day you let go.
Just how long that period of time was.
Oh, yeah, that was about a year.
That was probably about a year.
And a half?<br><br>
The year and a half is stereotype about how it takes 18 months to make a true adjustment in life.
there are exceptions office because people move through change differently as we know.
I was just intrigued by that stereotypes in large.
there's lots of truth in them,
So which is quite that interesting toe point?
That timeframe out?
So we're still in the beautiful tree,
and I'm loving how you're shaking apples out in all sorts of enigmatic ways
and unexpected and surprising ways
This has been surprising me too I had no idea--
I'm not sure, actually,
I know what structure we're doing,
but I'm not sure whether we're still in inspiring. shaping, or things that get your attention
or a quirky,unusual fact about you.
it's a Venn diagram, isn't it?
And it's a beauty.
I love it.
I love you for that.
I love the fact it's a very enigmatic Venn diagram with you having a date night
with oneself in the middle of it.
I guess I think I'm still in the inspiring that I'll feel like the inspiring stage.
I can move on to things that shaped me.
Certainly as everybody does
my family is a huge influence on who I am.
And how that what that looked like me is I come from a long
line of smart ass Irish immigrants in New York City.
They took over the town,
and it's just Ah,
I joke about this.
And I mean,
in a funny way,
the family crest is like flipping the bird like it's just
there's no reverence.
It's all sort of this dark rye humour finding,
finding those jewels of humour in the darkest places.
that has really shaped my view of the world.
And my mom is an incredible woman.
She was raising five of us kids.
Irish Catholic family,
Five kids that were only six years apart.
So raising live smart asses as you say?
he was very quickly outnumbered.
And she was raising us by herself.
She was a single mom
So same father for all five of you,
if you don't mind me asking.
They She was married to my dad for about eight years and
He served his purpose.<br>
It wasn't a healthy marriage.
And so she took the amazing step of leaving it and
living the life that she had more wanted to live.
She I think she was born to be a hippie,
And she grew up in Irish Catholic New York in the forties and fifties,
so that just didn't exist.
And she sounds like she's still she's still with us in what I'm reading.
Um so she and she's always been a real connoisseur of the quirky and the silly, too.
Like I have a memory of her dropping me off at kindergarten.
And we were speaking in English accents
the entire car ride there in the middle of Las Vegas.
and she's really embrace what weirdos each of her kids are, like, there were no expectations.
There was no comparison.
She let us do what we wanted to do.
And the freedom of that has been on one hand,
Like I've never had the burden of worrying that I'm disappointing my mom
in the choices that I made.
But on the other hand,
when you could do anything what do you do?
I need a little more structure.
Do you have multi textured flavours of siblings in what you've all ended up
He will been given this complete freedom to reign and go rogue.
My I have three brothers and a sister.
My sister is the oldest and I'm the youngest.
So we bookend the three boys.
I like that too.
We bookend these three boys,<br>
What a great way to put that.
you're book ended.
enough of you guys.
We are the boundary
My sister, she's artistic in that she loves to paint.
and the things that she paints are these really intricate,
But inside of those shapes,
she creates these intricate,
detailed other little shapes that sort of mesh together on her creative side.
And then her work side
she works for a pharmaceutical company
monitoring drug trials as they happen once they go into the phase where
they're trying drugs on humans.<br>
She must be particularly useful to society at this particular point.
She apparently is very, very busy right now,
but that it's that same sort of ability to look at the little thing and mesh them all together
that makes a really good job.
And the comedian is thinking
she's also very, very, very tightly controlled.
And you know the expression which I mean kindly.
She has a tight sphincter.
the idea of only dogs can hear her fart because you've got a real attention for detail.
I'm not saying that's not true,
because some of your facial expressions about her attention to detail were..
Anyway I'm sure she's lovely.
If you are anything to go by.
I'm sure she's gorgeous
way had an upbringing that was pretty unconventional
and at times really chaotic.
So I think we've all come up with our ways of controlling our environment.
And I think that that's her version of it.
and that I have one brother who has, he's worked in software
for 100 years and recently at the age of
52, 53 has gone to law school law. He's in law school right now,
And another brother who went to law school early on and hated being a lawyer.
if he's become a software engineer then your two brothers just needs to have been each other.
So but sorry,
they have overlap in their careers.
And so but my brothers,
Ian and Stephen,
who have just been talking about They're also musicians.
Like there's this
the vein of music that runs through the family,
starting from my grandmother,
apparently a prodigy of a pianist when she was a child.
And then when she grew up
she liked to play in nightclubs and she wrote a musical called Tickled Pink
and and then she got married, and those choices were no longer available to her
And because of the time of the marriage
of It's time.
That's your mum's mum,
Or your mom's mom.
That's my mum's mum.<br>
Called her Nana.
I'm really talking a lot about my family,
so they definitely shaped you, I get that.
They definitely shaped and continue to do.
I'm really grateful
that I like my siblings.
I know that that's not always true in every family.
And one of the things my mom was really good at was,
even when you get in a fight of kids,
she made sure that we genuinely made up.
It wasn't just an exercise that she wanted to make sure that we stayed friends.
So no sulking or toxicity allowed.
but I would say another.
Another clearing for me is when I get to hang out with my closest
brother in age,
like he and I had such similar sense of
humour that its effortless to be in the room,
with even my close friends like I'm trying to find the way it's gonna
make them laugh, right?
With my brother,
we just get it, we just get it.
A beautiful synergy.
So you can definitely have your family as people that have shaped you.
That's that's beautifully convincing.
Anything else that shaped you?
I know there is.
But what else would you like to tell us that shaped you?
one of what a recent influence of mine
And I may have talked to you about this in the past
in other conversations
the gym that I was going to in New York City called Mark Fisher Fitness.
And they their tag line is,
Ridiculous humans, serious fitness,
and they turned out to be a magical place for me
to learn coaching,
Because they're coaching physical transformation.<br>
Just say that lovely mantra again.
Ridiculous humans, serious fitness
What a great strap line
And you mentioned ridiculous human in how you describe yourself as a coach at
when I gave you that deliberately clunky question of what do you do?
And you say I'm a ridiculous human.
So they have shaped you,
They really have.
And what I learned from them,
that was a layer of my coaching that I didn't trust yet was just
the unconditional regard for
wherever you were in the process of transformation
walking in the door.
Maybe you were brand new and had never exercised for in your life<br>
Or maybe you were an elite athlete.
Maybe you didn't want to lose weight, maybe you just wanted to move your body.
They didn't care,
No one goal was superior to another. They just wanted you to know that you belong there.
Unconditional positive regard is is a wonderful maxim of itself within coaching.
And for them to trust,
you know what your goals are?
early in coaching,
I think I was really results oriented and gave me a little bit more permission
to relax and see what develops with somebody else.
A similar interpretation of that I've struck upon,
which may be a phrase you've heard a lot as well,
because we do the same thing.
But the idea of tapping into people's inner geniuses,
your inner genius knows what to do.
And so they were doing that on a physical level.
And also it wasn't just the regard,
but also the environment.
They were able to set up like the trainers air wearing tutus and
capes and leggings with cats on them,
reminding you that it's not all that serious,
No one's gonna die if .
you can't do one more push up.
a sense of humour attached.
To something joyful and spontaneous.
So those are the, I guess, the big shapers.
my theatre training, of course, shaped a lot.
Was I right?
Earlier on when I mentioned the Command and Conquer?
Was that a sort of video game version of you quite a few years ago,
That would have been probably back in 92?
so sorry to dig that out for you,
but it was an extraordinary accomplishment of wow someone that's very ingrained
in the sort of genesis of,
actors being involved in the gaming industry.
It was an interesting moment.
That was the first game that combined
computer animation with live action.
And human filming.
And so I had a little part.
Did you actually see the video of it?
There's there's you doing several takes of Colonel Morelli,
But you notice I'm wearing a white helmet.
That was too small for my face.
I have interviewed recently somebody called Jack Claff.
An English actor who was in the Star Wars first movie
in one of the I'm not a particular Star Wars aficionado,
but one of the people in the ships,
the fighter things,
what they called? Awkward.
he's in one of those helmets.
So that had a connection for me and watching you do that.
It's humbling to look at because I don't think I'm particularly good in it.
And so I really needed,
a waxing on my lip
I wasn't gonna bring that up,
nor did I notice.
It's all I see when I look at it.
So two things that never failed to grab your attention
Two things that never fails to grab my attention.
cuz I'm not a kid person,
Babies are amazing because they're super present like there's no...
there are no filters yet.
They just get to be this pure experience and watching toddlers walk.
They're the most hilarious,
drunkards. They are all drunk.
Drunk on life,
Not the NATO team surprises.
1 foot goes in front of the other.
And you said that you're not You're not a baby person per se.
So you don't have aspirations to be a parent in that regard or
I really like babies and the energy of babies.
Like when you touch them,
there's like a buzzing energy life energy on them.
Isn't that amazing?
I don't think I have the patient to raise an entire human.
So I always joked that I want a pet baby.
Like a puppy.
It turns out there maybe probably not such fun pets.
There's so much upkeep on a baby.<br>
There's a funny graph been doing the rounds on social media recently,
which is a comedy graph which is actually in the LolVirus group where you might have put it there, even
which is the fun versus effort ratio of pets.
And up the top is dragon,
which is awesome.
but quite high maintenance.
And then babies are in there on quite a lot of effort there.
right on the axs<br>
And what else do I always notice?
Thie squirrels moment.
from the film Up.
I think it is.
So babies definitely do that to me
Just just General Quirk.
Something that is just enough off center
It hit this place in my chest.
I'll go hee! That's amazing.That's so weird, I love it!
Like I was going through my photos of a tour that I went.
Um I did.
Two months in Germany.
Doing a Christmas Carol, in English, which it's own quirky thing.
English speaking theatre in Frankfurt,
by any chance?
Because that's that's when I remember.
it's a company that's based in Munich.
So that I was looking at the pictures and the pictures were all the things that I found quirky like
candy bars that are named Balls
And like this weird bathroom that I walked into that had
How weird is that?
Really creepy bathroom,
uh the lady's sanitary box where
those sort of things get put the branding
on top of it with Lady Killer
ha ha ha.
So the joy of maverick surprise as it Oh,
they get to come back to that.
We're coming back to that circle when it shows up in
Like that weird thing about you that you you think it's
too much or isn't appropriate is probably the thing that
you're going to appreciate most about your Yes.
And it's a lovely boundary to try and push and experience sometimes,
When your wheels are just about to leave the edge,
that's where the real magic can happen sometimes on comedy pushes the
boundaries in that way,
I find on and it's a real sailing really close to the wind on the edge of the
before you fall off the earth is the really interesting moment,
Going to how to read your audience?
So now I think we're nearly end.
At the end of the truth is that you've been sharing alchemy and gold anywhere which are coming onto next.
But what about an unusual fact about you we couldn't possibly know until you deliver
the punchline of Now,
this is a difficult question,
I feel like I've been sharing weird facts about me all day.
if I have to pick one,
I guess when I fall asleep,
I fall asleep to cartoons.
I have to have a cartoon playing.
To keep my head from spinning so I can actually fall asleep.<br>
your husband must really enjoy that.
That's really quirky.
And I love the idea of that.
I'm not trying to follow people.
I've actually converted him to it<br>
because now he does
when he's travelling,
we call it Lullaby,
putting on level and currently American Dad.
So you know talking about loony tunes as you go justly So
way shall we say
awesome worth waiting for quirky or unusual fact.
And now we walk away from your tree and we talk about alchemy and gold.
And what I mean by that is when you are at purpose or inflow.
What's the alchemy and the gold that you're here to bring?
Do you think
I really believe it's about
recovering from perfectionism
I joked and recovering perfectionist.
Jane Fonda says in a documentary that went out
here to be purpose was here to be whole,
and that's what I'm That's what I'm trying to do is
free people from the burden of perfection,
or at least give the perfectionist.
something else to do that's more helpful than trying to create this facade
when trying to connect with you the way that shows up for me is
like before I had a class.
my inner protectionist wants the room to look perfect.
And so I let my perfectionist set up the tables and chairs just so
and the angle of the board just so then politely ask the perfectionist
You know what I mean
like you didn't really well
thank you for this very of organised space.
Now you take a break,
and then do you deliberately push a chair over or something.
At that point,
you know that that would be a great way to actually manifest it.
So far it's just been psychic.
I give that to you as a potential gift.
Just do something to disrupt the perfection.
I love that
The dent or the tint the universe.n
I love that too.
So you're at the beautiful point now.
And by the way
That was a gorgeous answer to alchemy and gold.
So I'm gonna would you with a cake,
Wendy Bagger wow,
for gracing us with your presence here in the Good Listening To Podcast Clearing
and the cake is yours,
and you're gonna put a cherry on the cake.
And I'd like to just subdivide the cake a bit.
First of all,
can I have given our some?
But what's a favourite inspirational quote?
Even if you repeat when you've already given us of yours that you've always drawn great succor from
this is one that I haven't talked about yet.
There's a book by Mark Manson called
Charles Manson, didn't say Charles Manson. Mark Manson this one.
And it's a book called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.
And A: I'm always down for good f-bomb.
But the quote that I take from that book is,
uh how'd it go?
In my life?
I have given a fuck about a great many things and not given a
fuck about a great many things.
And in the end,
it is fucks not given have made all the difference.
And just that last bit I lost that have just made this.
Now it could be me being bit deaf at that moment.
It is all -- The fucks not given
Have made all all of the difference.
All of the difference. Forgive me.
That could be just me being a bit deaf head at this point.
I love that.
And so now the extra cherry on the cake is your choice of--
It could be advice you might give to your younger self.
Or it could be the legacy of this conversation.
how would you like to leave us in this conversation?
Um I think the--
think that my answer to that is both of those Cherries with you.
Presence, not perfection.
Thank you so much for joining me in the Good Listening To .
Where can we find out more<br>
about Wendy Bagger if we'd care to on the interweb.
bendy waggon that somebody else you're gonna find a lot of.
something very different.
You can find me on the Working Voices website.
And thank you so much.
It's been a real privilege talking to you.
So you have been listening to Wendy Bagger on the Good Listening to Podcast with me,
Chris Crimes and.