34 "Brand Strand" Episode - Eloise Leeson: Linguist & Founder of Olim Comms!

Ladies n' Genmin welcome to another exciting episode of "The Good Listening To" Podcast with me Chris Grimes!

A special "Brand Strand" Episode, whereby I wrap an Episode around a particular Company (or Individual) to amplify their Company (or Personal) Brand.

And to that end, please welcome to the GLT "Clearing" today:  Eloise Leeson,  linguist and owner of Olim Comms:  

Here to help  businesses - in Eloise's own words - "close the gap between what they think they're saying, and what's actually being received by their customers".

Eloise also explains what "Olim" means (Latin for "Once" and how she applies its principles) in the Podcast too! 

Hurrah!

More about Eloise and her work: 

What do you get when you combine linguistic discipline with extensive commercial communications experience?

Really great results, it turns out!

Eloise Leeson is a trained linguist, with a unique, data-focused approach to written and verbal communications that’s delivered insights and results for a wealth of companies.  

Her consultancy, Olim, helps us to close the gap between what we think we're saying - and what's actually being received by our listeners.

You can find out more about Eloise and her stirling linguistic work at her website olimcomms.com

So - thanks for listening to another episode of a "GLT with me CG!"

The Podcast series that features "The Clearing":  Where all good questions come to be asked and all good stories come to be told!

With some lovely juicy storytelling metaphors to also enjoy along the way:

The Clearing itself - A Tree (where we get to "shake your tree to see which storytelling apples fall out, in the form of a lovely storytelling exercise called "5-4-3-2-1") - some Alchemy - some Gold - and finally a Cake with a Cherry on Top!

Think "Desert Island Discs" but in a Clearing! 

Also think about William Shakespeare - and about Jaques in "As You Like It" in particular:

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages..."

Jaques: Act II Scene VII

And as my Guest in the Podcast:  Now is your 'moment in the sunshine' to share your story!

Who are you? What's your story? And what 'life-lessons-learned-along-the-way' would you like to share with us? And just to get bit "existential on yo ass" too (!) what would you like your legacy to be?  How would you most like to be remembered?

And all my guests have at least 2 things in common: They are all Creative individuals  - and all with an interesting story to be told!

If you'd like to find out more, then please do check out my websites www.secondcurve.uk + www.instantwit.co.uk - and there's also a dedicated "Good Listening To

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

• Show Website: https://www.thegoodlisteningtoshow.com
• You can email me about the Show: chris@secondcurve.uk
• Twitter thatchrisgrimes
• LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-grimes-actor-broadcaster-facilitator-coach/
• FaceBook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/842056403204860

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

0:01

So hurrah! Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of "The Good Listening To Podcast". And I'm very very excited to have in The Clearing - Ladies and Gentlemen Eloise Leeson! When I first heard your name, it made me think of Liam Neeson, which is a completely different spelling and is a spoonerism. And it is obviously no relation because Liam Neeson has nothing to do with Eloise Leeson I'm frankly ashamed because I think he'd be an excellent boxing acting partner of some persuasion, absolutely brilliant and what we're gonna be doing, By the way, I've invited Eloise who is a a linguist who runs a company called Olim dot com. And I'm intrigued. We have had a brief discussion about what Olim means, and I'd like you to get on the open road of explaining that because its got quite an exciting connection to what I think, of as being one of most exciting things about Shakespearean prologues and the function back in the day that they had. But anyway, so, yes, Eloise is a linguist. We've had a couple of connections on LinkedIn. She and I both have a lovely man called Dave Stewart from The Fresh Air Leadership in common, and we just have had a couple of really interesting conversations. That was just a natural segue. to bring you into The Good Listening To podcast clearing. So good morning Eloise and how's&nbsp; morale? How are you? I'm really good. I'm really good. I'm not gonna lie. I have cried more in the last week than I have in the last six months combined. I'm not normally a crier, but I think with everything going on in the world, at the moment, and the renewed lockeddown that's coming through. I definitely did a couple of very ugly, open mouth, square mouth&nbsp; crying But other than that, I woke up this morning and despite the fog, the fog is so bad here in Scotland, it made the news, which goes to show just how rock and roll my home nation actually is. But yeah, other than that, actually really very good and delighted to be here. Okay, Any tears of joy in amongst that because of course, the political landscape has changed quite significantly, hasn't it? I think I drank the tears of joy, which was champagne. So I put a bottle in the fridge and thought to myself, you know, what, one way or another, I think it was Bonaparte has the most wonderful quote, which is that "In victory you deserve champagne, but in defeat you <i>need</i> it. So I thought, one way or another. You know, we would need something of the fizzy persuasion. Who's quote was that? I love that. It was Napoleon Bonaparte, I believe, not that I think I should probably be advocating for his approach to things. But, you know, out of his, you know, many catch phrases. I do believe that is my favourite. So similarly, I've always been a bit nervous about quoting Nietzsche

One of his: 2:30

&nbsp; "The best ideas happen outdoors" But people in history have said some cool shit. They have! Even if their actions have been reprehensible. Lovely. And in fact, talking about cause and effect, one of the main thrusts of Olim I've experienced is you're closing the gap between what people think they're saying, and what's actually received, which lives in that lovely quote. It's not what you say. It's what people hear. So that was another hook I had in wanting to talk to you. So would you. What's your journey to the clearing that you find yourself in currently in your life's work. So do you want to just go on the open road and tell our lovely audience about Olim? I would love to.&nbsp; So... how far back down the open road do we go? She says, making a face. You can go back to "I was born in an early age!" if you want to go back..."I was, I was born at an early age, I hear, I skipped childhood&nbsp; - no" So, I suppose really the linguistics journey started when I went to University, and like any sort of, you know, young person, I'll do French and history because I'm good at them at school. Not really questioning for a minute if I <i>wanted</i> to do french or be an historian or anything like that. And when I got to University I went to the University of Aberdeen, a wonderful place, and the filler courses that you have to take, Linguistics was an option. The first course I did was an introduction to&nbsp; Morphology, and it's about sense making. It's about the way that you put certain - Morphology? Morphology. Yes. Lovely. Yes, so sense making. It varies,&nbsp; So you have a lot about - the introduction to Linguistics covers things like Morphology, Phonology, you know, Syntax, Semantics. And then you look at dialects and sociolects. The way that language is so intertwined with culture, they're almost inseparable. And one of the big things that really called to me about linguistics. Was how clear it suddenly made everything It's about making a subconscious tool kit (that we all have) overt and conscious, Like, I like to say,&nbsp; I was seduced by Linguistics. And I did a couple of years of the French and History. I then went to Corsica to teach French in high school in the north , in La Balagne for my sins. I had a really interesting year. And&nbsp; absorbed as much of the language as I could and then&nbsp; I came back to university. And I thought... I don't want to do French nouvelle vague feminist criticism of the 1940s cinema, so I just ditched it all, and I went directly for the Linguistics, and having spent a year in Corsica, where there's a really interesting diglossia,&nbsp; which means two languages, at play within one society, a diglossia of French and Corsican. Sorry -&nbsp;

a another new word to me: 5:18

"diglossia"? Diglossia.&nbsp; Diglossia. It means -&nbsp; Can I just thank you for Morphology and diglossia, Pleasure! So with a diglossia you get what&nbsp; people would label, maybe label as an 'acrolect',&nbsp; or a 'high' language, or a 'basolect', which is a 'low' language. And typically they're categorised into things like, You know, an acrolect would be the language of law or medicine or power, for example. So education, law, um, medicine and things like that, would be typically used in the high language, usually of a ruling class or a conqueror. But then the basolect is the language of agriculture, farming, expletives, the home, family, powerful emotions, and typically, I noticed with my students was that you know, we would obviously use French in school when we weren't trying to learn English, and then they would often slip into Corsican when they were speaking with their friends, or when they were talking about home, or they were referring to things. Corsica is a very, very interesting place to be politically, and sort of in terms of identity. So then that got me thinking in the last years of my degree, language and identity and...do we form our identity based on the language that we speak, or does the language that we speak in form our identity? There's a really interesting, sort of, um, they're two sides of the same coin effectively, but it basically sparked curiosity about how can we use language, as a way of self-defining and navigating our identities and&nbsp; then how does that apply to business? So this was a kind of conclusion that took me 10 years to reach. But I left University and then promptly, ironically, began working a fantastic job as a Project Officer for the University. I taught students how to get jobs, so I kind of feel like the interview process was me showing I could, I could do the job. But the STAR Award it was known - Students Taking Active Roles - was such a privilege to be a part of. And I met so many amazing students, and I was able to undergo workshops with them and plan things for them. And, you know, that was an amazing experience just to meet, and to try and support as many people as I could. And I still keep in touch of the students today, which has just been tremendous. That was a couple years, and then I left there and then I joined the team that launched Deliveroo into Scotland. Just a casual 90 degree angle from the academic path. My post-it note paper, by happy, weird coincidence, is Deliveroo brand today! Yeah, exactly! A very excellent Pantone teal. I used to be able toremember the name of it, its colour code. Not a cool thing to admit to you,&nbsp; Chris, um, and so helped to launch Deliveroo in Scotland. And I think, typical startup, I've burned myself out, you know, they're great company. They do a lot of really good things. um,&nbsp; I think a lot goes on behind the scenes that people don't necessarily perhaps consider or appreciate, so anyway, So that was a real lesson and education, a christening by fire. And then I discovered I was a<i> terrible</i> advertising sales person, So I left Deliveroo and got a job in media, and discovered I'm really bad at asking for money over the phone! And that's not to put any shade on people I've worked with, in the past, I was&nbsp; just truly, truly awful eso. After six months of that, I got a very polite."We love you, but you need to leave. Which was otally fine, you know? Absolutely, absolutely within their rights to say that,&nbsp; And then I wound up getting a job at Lululemon. As the expression has it,"you've had your exit managed." Yes! I did. Thank you very much. My exit was very honestly and gracefully managed, and then I got a job selling yoga pants. to the upper echelon of Edinburgh's yoga-pant-wearing society through Lululemon And that was&nbsp; really - I'm assuming that's not where you met Dave Stewart, Sadly not, no,&nbsp; Although I think he'd look lovely in spandex. Dave, if you're listening, my apologies in advance for that.&nbsp; It's an image. We don't need to conjure, really,&nbsp; You know, I think he'd look lovely...but that was actually really interesting pause to think, to stop and think, you know, is this... Is this what I want? Where I want to go? I had done a lot of reacting. Once I had left the University,&nbsp; I've done a lot of "I need to do this and I need to do that" because you have bills to pay. You have, you know, things to look after, and&nbsp; I had the chance to pause and think, you know, is where I'm going, where I want to be going? And then I was headhunted by a brilliant brand agency called LUX. LUX are a real powerhouse of people who do a brilliant job with food and drink branding, specifically. And my past Deliveroo experience and the focus I've had with the magazine that I'd worked for, a lot of it had... Obviously, Deliveroo is purely focused on food and restaurants, and&nbsp; the magazine was a bit of a bit of that in there, as well, but I've always been really interested in the hospitality and the food and drink scene,<i>never</i> any good at being a part of that. You know, I was a rubbish bartender, couldn't pour a pint to save my life, and would frequently forget orders, which is no good thing to admit to, but I have so much respect for people who do work in the hospitality industry of any kind because I think there is so much hard work that happens in there. And, you know, I love meeting people behind the bar and meeting the restaurateurs and chefs and all of these different things that have such appreciation for how hard people work. So when LUX had mentioned that there was a role that was coming up and would I be interested, it was a no brainer, you know, I had actually wanted to join them as a business for a very long time before then. I loved that they were food and drink specific, and a lot of their campaigns were really cool. So I got to work with companies like Edinburgh Gin,&nbsp; You know, got to do some strategic research for people like BrewDog, and all through these various different things, is the thread of Linguistics and taking that subconscious toolkit and making it conscious. So if you were working as a publicist and doing sell-ins, on occasion, then you know you can get beyond a lot of barriers if you can make someone laugh within the first sort of five seconds of a conversation, you know, if you can be a little bit self-deprecating and not come off as an arsehole. Then you're gonna open a lot more doors, than someone who just sort of pompously wanders in and shouts"I have a news story!!" No one likes that. Don't do that. But you know- I love the irony of Linguistics, and if you have too much Edinburgh Gin or too much BrewDog your Linguistics will get slightly slippery! They will,&nbsp; they will. Yes, It's a quick route to being a sloppy Linguist but also possibly an unfiltered Linguist, which is another dangerous thing. Nice, but what I love in your, on your Olim comms website -&nbsp; What's the actual website called? It is Olimcomms.com Olimcomms, is your... it's really Bish Bash Bosh! Because you said every word counts. That's the real fascination in the precision of Linguistics, which is very intriguing and it's all about clarity. It is a lot about clarity - and also, looking at your website, and I will give you a chance at the end to specifically say where we can find out more about you. But I was thinking you you're very much going for salmon pink as the background colour! I am.&nbsp; I am. Yes, classic millennial colour.&nbsp; The joy of LUX was that it was such an education into the world of business as an agency, so again, agency people, I think secretly, we probably all do work really hard and once you get under the skin of certain industries, of certain sectors, you see how hard people work. But working with really small businesses, I think my favourite client ever was The Bay Fish and Chip Shop, based in Stonehaven, voted the Lonely Planet's ; The Bay Fish and Chip Shop, yes. Mark that.&nbsp; If anyone takes anything away from this particular call? Let it not be Linguistics, let it be the UK is best fish and chips! But it was, Yeah, it was a fantastic education. I learned a huge amount, and made some really great friendships and relationships. And then my partner at the time, he had been offered to go to Toronto to do some work over there with his company. And said did I fancy a sabbatical to Toronto. for six months and like any sensible,&nbsp; well-functioning human, I said Uh, yeah, yeah, I would really like that. So we went to Toronto and that was in July of last year, so July 2019. And I did that whole, Hmm... We're here on a tourist visa. I can't go out and get the retail job or whatever it is that I would, what I would normally do to try and make ends meet, but I, you know, kind of I thought to myself if I was ever going to go freelance Now is the time to do that. So I sat down, in a quiet crisis of, again, another square, open mouth, ugly cry to say there's, you know, what could I possibly offer? After a while, I thought, well, I sort of vaguely know how to write a news story, and I have a real interest in food and drink,&nbsp; I'll try and pitch food stories to various different food and drink editors, and that bombed,&nbsp; just horrendously. It's a hard game, And you need to be relentless and really driven with it, Then I did a few bits and pieces and was working pro. bono as a board member of charity, and doing social media campaigns and things for them and using a lot of what I've learned in various different roles. And then it sort of struck me in about November/ December of last year. That actually had some really good results. I have some really good feedback from people who have said, you know, that was actually a really - thanks! You really helped me to understand what it is I'm trying to say. And then the sort of idea of, a consultancy was born. That was well, we all seem to have a really, really hard time confirming if what we're saying is landing with the person was saying it to, in the way that we intend it to. Because, you know, you lose count in life of how many conversations you have where, you know someone is confused or offended.

And you go: 14:46

no no no! I didn't mean that! I didn't mean that! Or you have an email that comes off and you look like a bit of a dick. Will you write a text? And all of a sudden, your best friend's like "I'm sorry? What did you mean with your upside down smiley face emoji?" There are so many layers. There's so much nuance in language that we all have such a hard time understanding ourselves, let alone trying to help someone else understand us. So the idea for Olim was born, really, out of Linguistic frustration and I think that this is where this's my very long way of rounding out the point that our language and our identity are inextricably linked. They are the same thing. And how we use that language and how we are receptive to other people's language helps us to make sense of them, and treat them with respect. And that's one of the biggest things that I think the consultancy tries to do, or what I try to do for my clients is to say,"Right, tell me who you think you are and tell me how it is that you want to be received by your clients, because right now you're not getting the results that you think you want."&nbsp; That's obvious. You're not getting the results that you think you want, so it may be that you have an inherited story about who it is that you think you are. That actually isn't serving you, or it might be that you're missing out an opportunity because you're so focused on trying to fit the mould of what you think an accountancy firm should be, or that you think you know a development company should be or a coach or trainer. And actually, what you've not done is you've not pause to say "Is this true? Does this feel correct for me?""And if it does, am I saying it in a way that other people can receive the messages that I'm putting out there?" So that's why the website says "every word counts" because it does, and because we do close the gap between what it is that we think we're saying and what's actually being received. And the Olim as we discussed is the start of a story. Isn't it? It is. So Olim is a Latin phrase that I stumbled across a couple of years ago, Olim was usually used at the start of a declaration of some kind. So it was, basically Latin for "Everyone, shut up and listen.""We're about to say something really important." It has connotations of also being "once upon a time", but effectively was used to start some kind of rhetoric to which it would be worth your time to listen. So... And coming full circle about I mentioned about what I connected to about that is function back in the day, in the Shakespearean bear pits where people were bear baiting, shagging, throwing tomatoes, you know, just being a bit debauched. The prologue would come on, and it was time to get everyone to look."Shut your faces. Stop it! Stop shagging!" They said "No, don't!" Explain in a bish bash bish you know, 14-line way why you need to shut your face and listen, and my favourite prologue is the Romeo and Juliet "two households......both alike in dignity" I won't do the whole thing, but there was a lovely connection in there -&nbsp;- yes -&nbsp; I <i>get</i> Olim, and it's very exciting to have a bish bash bosh Intention to be clear, Eloise, welcome to The Good Listening To Podcast clearing! So we're going to bring you into a clearing, first of all,&nbsp; and it's a metaphor that's open to interpretation. What would you say...you mentioned you'd been to Canada, You went to Aberdeen University... whereabouts in Scotland are you based now? I'm based in the jewel in the crown of the Borders,&nbsp; I live in Peebles. Peebles? Lovely! Peebles. So where is, in all of your experience, where is a clearing for you either metaphorically, geographically, or literally? So I think it's...um...do I get two? Can I have two clearings? Am I allowed? You could be greedy... Really? OK. well, I'll be greedy, and I'll have two clearings. The first clearing is on a plane somewhere in the Taos, near the Taos Mountains in New Mexico. I had the great privilege to go visit New Mexico. There's that for a segue answer. A great privilege to go and visit New Mexico, visiting a friend of mine who lives in the States, about six years ago, and, had never experienced any kind of desert ever, ever, ever, in my entire life, and&nbsp; staying with friends who had a trailer out in the desert and the clearing was just beautiful&nbsp; desert, woody, scrubby herb and massive wide open sky And if you set up a time or an alarm for half two in the morning and you stagger out of bed and you open your eyelids and gaze at the stars it's an amazing experience. I watched a storm happen in Colorado, because it's so clear you can see into another state, which is just madness. But New Mexico is a fantastic place, and the other clearing's probably. Would you hold that clearing thought before we go into the next one? I love that you're the first person on The Good Listening To Podcast to talk about a desert plain. So I thank you for that. Pleasure! And the other one, just to kind of turn the tables completely is probably a soggy field somewhere in the Borders where I did lots of, you know, stomping around growing up, being a moody adolescent, feeling like no one stood me and my bohemian tendencies. Um, but it's clearing of some kind, something green, something verdant, but yeah, that's definitely what I think of. You're making me think of Eustacia Vye from The Good Native, I think it's the name of the book, The Thomas Hardy one. Is it The Good Native? The Return of the Native! Sorry, that was - I don't know where that came from, that sort of slightly random reference. We both have to look that up! We will, definitely. Awkward! So there you are in your clearing, so you can choose now am I joining you with a metaphorical tree, and it's, it's nice because there's a bit of a Joshua Tree intent,&nbsp; If you let me into your desert plain, or we could go into a soggy field with a tree. I think we should crack on with the desert plain- I hope I didn't sort of, you know, influence that as being that's where I wanted to go, Oh no, not at all.&nbsp; I think deserts are good places for stories. Just as a segue, If anybody reads Women Who Run With the Wolves By Clarissa Pinkola Ests,&nbsp; first of all, every single human being should read it, because it's a phenomenal book. Second of all, it's also fascinating as a Linguist, just in terms of the layers of story in anthropology and the way we make sense out of our own psyches. But also good things happen in deserts. They're places for unpacking and unpeeling and remove- removing the layers of things, you know, they're places of journey and pilgrimage. And in Breaking Bad,&nbsp; lots of places to bury people. Tonnes of meth, man, Just loads. That's what we just be smacked off our faces. No notice, A very serious issue. But yes, yes, and Women Who Run With the Wolves is indeed a seminal, awesome book about the sort of wonderment of femininity. I used to think the male antidote to that was Men Who Bark at the Moon. That I haven't read, and need to. Sure. So, We're in your clearing now and we're going to - and thanks for letting us into your desert - We need to shake your tree now, to see which apples fall out, and the apples take the form of a storytelling exercise that I actually got from Dave Stewart, just to amplify him again I get to be a Sherpa with&nbsp; a flip chart, metaphorically, with Dave Stewart in The Fresh Air Leadership Company, I'm not doing this programme just to plug him, but I need to amplify - He's great, and everyone should say hi, by the way, Yes. So, 5-4-3-2-1, is we've had five minutes to think about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never failed to grab your attention. And then one quirky or unusual fact about you that we couldn't possibly know until you decide to tell us. So don't panic. We don't have to sort of <i>phlonk </i>the apples down in a one-r. But it's your tree to shake, which apple would you like to chomp into first? I think we should talk about the four things that shape a person. Let's do that.&nbsp; The person specifically, so I think. Well, the first thing that comes to mind is family, obviously. My family are mental. Um and I think that one of the best ways to put it, the way we grew up here in the Borders, we moved from England, That's why I should have really done an accent caveat, when I started this because everyone does the "You're Scottish, but you sound wrong" But yes, we moved up when I was about five years old to the Borders,&nbsp; I have a younger brother, Robbie, and my parents. So we're a very close, very close family. So what I'm hearing and understanding is one brother. One brother. Yes. Yeah, So there are four of us in Peebles.&nbsp; I think one of the things that really formed us is a family was that my parents did a really good job of making sure that we were interested which she says egotistically,&nbsp; we mean interested, curious people and we did that by&nbsp; always kind of sitting down at the table, which I realise is a massive privilege that my mum stayed at home, dad went to work, and then he'd come back, it was very "traditional", and we would always have dinner together, and now, granted that would be even me talking about how I had avoided being stabbed with a crayon at primary school. But it was always, there was always an interesting conversation, and I think when people make you feel that you are worth being interested in, you start to become interested in other people and vice versa. And&nbsp; I think that kind of the art, not the art of conversation. But the experience of holding a conversation is something I will always be so grateful to my parents for giving me, because we were always taught that you're not ever too busy to stop and talk to someone on that everybody is worth your time and attention. And I think that's been a really, really big formation of my upbringing. We went to Peebles High School, which was brilliant. Fantastic education, just very - Peebles High School? Peebles High School,&nbsp; yes. Peebles High School, and I think that it's one of those things where, and I don't know... whether I should go too, too deep into this. But a lot of people at University, heard the way that I talked, and&nbsp; several of them said "Which school did you go?""Which school did you go to?" And I'd say, "I went to Peebles High School." and they're like"Oh, where's that? Oh..." And it was this immediate assumption that because of the way I spoke that I automatically must have gone to a private school,&nbsp; and I resented them massively when I got to University, I think because it was the idea that I was only worth knowing if I'd gone to a private school. So I kind of arrived with an automatic no, not a chip on my shoulder that I hadn't gone to a private school, but that I had, you know, because of the way I sounded. That must have been. And I think, what I'm knowing. That people were drawing immediate conclusions about who I was, based on, you know, very limited information. And that hopefully, as well, then filters into the Linguistic side of things, which is that we do actually all draw down these immediate impressions of people based on how they sound, what they look like, and on what we expect, and in the best thing we can possibly do is try and dismantle that reflex, that learned reflex to say, I know loads about you because of you know, the things I've interpreted -&nbsp;&nbsp;- It's this idea of how the unconscious biases, it's how human beings make sense at lightning speed, and they can often be negative assumptions, in more toxic cases. It's not always helpful. it's not. And I think that yes, we do absolutely need to, if we're being chased by a leopard make sense of the situation. You're not going to turn around to the leopard and say "Mr Leopard, have you considered that perhaps vegetarianism might be a better way for you to go --?" whilst he is eating your face? But at the same time, you know, we live in a very complicated society and a complex society, and a really interesting society, where when we do make their immediate assumptions about people, we do ourselves the greatest disservice because we sort of suspend our ability to engage with someone in a way that's respectful and true to them, and I think that's one of the worst things. It's dehumanising for ourselves and for others. But that's what - I'm getting into TED Talk diatribe territory. So,&nbsp;I suppose the other things that have shaped me growing up has definitely been a love of language. It's always been a love of language, and again, my parents - I&nbsp; grew up learning French, I didn't have a French background, no family members or friends or anything like that, or any particular reason to have learned it, Other than it's like, Oh, you're European, so&nbsp; learn French and you'll learn German and Spanish because they're romance languages, you know, they're all nearby. Some property owners, I think, in Britain we have, ah, fairly negative culture, certainly is white people of we're just gonna do English because everybody speaks English, And that's what we're going to do Rather than appreciating the you know, the fact that, actually, so much of the world is multilingual, you know, Am I right in thinking you're trilingual? You do speak three languages? I attempt to... I'm sort of - I attempt to be trilingual. Really, I'm sort of a two and a quarter, and I can ask what your favourite colours are in German. Really, that's about as far as it goes. I can say "One man went to mow in Swahili" Excellent! You never know when that might come in handy! Yes, so the French side of things... the very convoluted point that I'm making is that my parents always insisted that my brother and I learned some of the language whenever we visited another country. So we should be able to say please and thank you. We should be able to say good morning and good evening. I like your parents,&nbsp; by the way, because they're just encouraging just good grace and being,&nbsp; My parents are, they're great people. They're really good people, and they are... They're a united front with very different views which I think is really interesting because I've seen a whole spectrum of different ideas growing up. My father trained to be a priest of all things, you know, we're a Catholic family, and he trained to be a priest, and left the seminary to pursue a different calling in financial services and my mother is far more on the spiritual side, at the other end of the spectrum. So I had two very different sort of ideas about life, and the universe and everything in it growing up. I think so -&nbsp; anyway, the whole - the importance of learning languages, the importance of being respectful, the importance of treating everyone as a human and as an individual. Everything has been beaten into me, since -&nbsp; There's a reallu lovely through-line in what you're saying about the desire to just be present with people and just give them a good listening to. I'm not saying that because that sounds like the podcast, it's just really lovely how there's that connection there. You're very, you just are innately interested in what's going on around you. I think that's one of the biggest gifts of my upbringing is that I also grew up in a very small town. So there are 8000 people in Peebles,&nbsp; and it's... you know the Law of Six Degrees of Separation?&nbsp; And I think in Peebles, it's about two, because either you'll know someone or your mum will know someone You do have&nbsp; - exactly! <i>They're always watching!</i>&nbsp;So you do have to be respectful, and be interested in people, and take that moment to talk. and you can't walk down the High Street without speaking with four or five different people that you know, there's a real community sense there. And the, you know, the kind of respect, and the treating everyone as a human, taking that time has been definitely beaten into me since I was a wee thing. But the other kind of greatest influence in my life has definitely been books and reading. Um, so the local library I would often, mum would often call them after school if I hadn't come home for an hour and a half. They be like,&nbsp;"Yeah, she's in the stacks, she's in the stacks" - I was a weird little kid. And you know, I volunteered -&nbsp; Stacks, is that the library? sorry to be -&nbsp; so yes - the bookshelves in the library, known as the stacks, or I was in the kid section, you know, reading up on&nbsp; origami - sorry, I love that - I've never heard it put like that."She's in the stacks" ...And I would just be lurking behind the books -anyway. But I think that love of reading, and that love of learning has definitely been something that's inspired me over time, and again, when you get curious about other people, if you have a sense of curiosity about all things, then you know you hopefully won't go too far astray. you'll always have a desire to learn, you'll never hopefully assume that you know it all, Just the ide aof that makes my skin crawl, Chris.&nbsp; But there is this sense of, you know, the more curious you are about things that I think that, you know, hopefully that the better a human being, you wind up being because the less you think you know it all, the less likely you are to assume. And I think I was very arrogant when I got to university and have that sort of, you know, that brash teenage confidence of "I know all the things" and then I got to university, and I've gone from being a student who got, like, good, good grades at school, and suddenly I was in a French class with a whole bunch of kids&nbsp; that'd been doing a hell of a lot better than I had, and it, really I took it as a blow, and I was like "Oh my gosh,&nbsp; the world does not revolve around me. Are you joking?" So I was a complete dickhead, for about four years at uni,&nbsp; Then I think, you know, hopefully I grew out of my ego that's still a work in progress - That's a realisation for all of us, great freedom and release. When you grow out of your own ego and realise that - long may we continue to do, Chris! But I think probably the fourth and final thig, it's curiosity and language and books. I suppose the last thing is this again, it's about making time for people. I think there's terrible lie that we don't have enough time, but we don't have enough time - bollocks. I think you have the time you make. You can't tell me that you don't have enough time to read the book, or speak to the person or, you know, go to the gym or go for a walk or pursue your passion, when you spend two hours scrolling on your phone. and I think - I call this The Nightmare Rectangle because it <i>is </i>The Nightmare Rectangle, and it is access to some of the worst bits of humanity, I think, and I think that is very tempting to get caught in a sort of a spiral of doom, and of comparison and of all these different things. So don't tell me you don't have enough time.&nbsp; And I love that added comparison is the thief of happiness - oh, isn't it?! And it's all about comparison, So yes, gnarly.&nbsp;Gnarly, dude, as my son would say. Gnarly, dude. Have we got to the end of the four things that - I believe we have, I think that was also a ramble, Chris, on my part So the bish bash bosh is it your parents,&nbsp; It's books and reading, it's the love of travel and I may be giving them in a slightly different convoluted way, No, you're doing a great job, and avoiding your nightmare rectangle, making sure that you're making time. Okay, so we're still shaking your tree. And now we're going to talk about the three things that inspire you. The three things that inspire me. Without sounding looking I'm going for a Miss World Award because I&nbsp; definitely feeling like I'm veering into this territory,

I think - urgh - I can't believe I'm going to say this: 33:00

people. Is that gross? No! What's gross? So just, people inspire you? But they do! This is the thing, is that, you know, people are never ending source of inspiration, humanity in general is a never-ending source of inspiration. Um, and I think that there, there is so much I see other people doing that just speaks to how different it is inside all of our own brains that - I don't think you can help but be floored by it. I don't, I genuinely don't. And I think that is, depending on your mindset, it could go one of two different ways. You can either be awed and inspired, or you could feel victimised and and, um, ground down by it. I think so much of that depends on your attitude. And I think that, a lot of it is, kind of, again, It's inherited. A lot of it is inherited, this idea that, I've never gone - so none, none of my family had ever gone to university before me, Perhaps they could have looked at me and said "Well, who does she think she is, getting up above herself, going to university?" you know."What is she gonna do with an academic degree, that she couldn't do with the hard work?" That's a very binary, very dramatic, overblown example. But when you do see people who have gone from having a circumstance or an attitude that they have deliberately chosen for themselves and they made something phenomenal out of it, I do think that is inspiring. And&nbsp;you see athletes that are inspiring. You see parents that are inspiring. You see students that are inspiring, or just any kind of work, And I think that there's a lot to be said for people being brave enough to veer off a beaten path. I think that when it comes to inspiration, that is the main, the main source of it is humanity in action, and it's got lots of - there's great hope in that as well. I hope so.&nbsp; We speak about dark times of unprecedented, strange stress, pressure, and yet the desire you have, which I share, is the idea of connecting, the idea of just going out with some boomerangs of connectivity, rather than sticks of victimhood is is just a really interesting thing. It is, it is, and I think that there's definitely, then there's a duty of care, to pass on what you've learned to other people.&nbsp;So as a segue, and I suppose this is the second thing that inspires me, and still inspires me massively, was the students that I worked with the University of Aberdeen. When I ran the STAR Award.&nbsp; And I would sit down with these students, and I guess this is also where the infancy of Olim began, Was that I would sit down with students and I will speak with them and they would tell me all these amazing things - I still have a - no one will expect this!- a crocheted cuttlefish from a student who also happened to be captain the basketball team - a crocheted cuttlefish? Yes. A crocheted cuttlefish.&nbsp; So he was not only was he captain of the basketball team, he was also a member of the yarn club, he was also doing an engineering degree in a second language, you know, apart from the other two languages that he spoke -&nbsp; You are the only person I've ever met that has a crocheted cuttlefish. I think I'm the only person I've met that has a crocheted cuttlefish! But the student in question had come to me and said,"I just - I just don't see what's gonna make a difference on my CV to people." I sat him down and I said "So just, just walk me through some of the stuff that you do and just walk me through what it is that you offer." And he said "Okay, well,&nbsp;I mean, I spend my time doing basketball and&nbsp;I spend my time, I actually do some crochet... and I do some stuff - " and we walked through his CV together and I said,

"What do you mean, there's nothing about you, that isn't inspiring?" or "What do you mean: 36:35

there's nothing about you that someone isn't gonna be interested in?""Because what you are is remarkable, because of the intersections of all your different identities and all the things that you love to do." And he thought that people wouldn't want to know about his basketball, his yarn club, his extra languages, or the way he volunteers. So all of these different things. And I said "What? It's remarkable!" Because if I were to hire an engineer and I had a swathe of all the same engineers, with academic results to choose from, what would make the difference for me? And the difference that would be made for me is someone who not only understands the importance of teamwork, teamwork in a sport like basketball. But the discipline, and the determination, and the diligence to see that through. But also someone who has a creative outlet who isn't going to be held back by, you know, God forbid, you know, preconceived ideas of what people should - men specifically - potentially should "spend their time doing". And I said, That is ludicrous. I would be choosing the person that was able to be original and confident and pursue the things that they love and want to go for. Perfect. Yeah, That's remarkable! And he just sat there and went..."Okay, that's great." And then shuffled off and wound up getting an amazing internship and doing a brilliant job, just like we knew he would do. Then he came back into my office and gave me this this knitted cuttlefish. That I still have upstairs in my bedroom.&nbsp; I need to know the answer to this, and I apologise. This is really testing you now. But do you remember his name, just so we can amplify him? I do. And I'd love to, but I'm gonna pronounce it wrong, because I haven't gone over it for a while, but I can add it in the show notes, if we're going to do some of those later. But he was, Yeah, he was remarkable. And I just remember this wonderful 6 ft 3 something basketballer coming up in his I think he was actually wearing his shorts at the time and, you know, massive hoody and then just kind of passing me a cuttlefish to say "Thanks for helping" and it just blew me away. How big are we talking, this crocheted cuttlefish? It's diddy, it's little. It's about probably the size of my palm - It's deeply iconic a gift you give, the gift of self, You give somebody a gift they'll never forget the context of that. It's like having a precious possession. I love that. Well, it is a precious possession, so yeah, I think that kind of, um, by the way, in personal brand terms, what I love about that as well is that you just articulated beautifully how you can encourage fellow human beings to just search, Just dig a little bit deeper for what is your differentiating factor. What do you bring that nobody else can? And that crocheted cuttlefish is just a beautiful way to tell that story, really. Yes. Maybe that should be another series of talks? Is what's your crocheted cuttlefish? That's a great idea - that's your podcast, right there. That's my podcast. Crumbs.&nbsp; But the other thing I think about it, and this is the final apple of inspiration, I think is probably the being able to shine a light on that personal branding.

So it's being able to say, and I think Linguistics is what's given me that ability to hopefully hold a degree of space of people to say: 39:36

"Let me just reflect what it is you told me." Yeah, sometimes having someone give you a damn good listening to, and reflect the things that you do is one of the most valuable things. And I think that, you know, I was very interested in pursuing becoming a therapist of some kind because I think if you can hold a compassionate mirror up to someone's, that's not necessary to say that you're going to coddle, or take responsibility for, or gloss over things that are unacceptable.

But to hold up a compassionate mirror to say: 40:06

"Here's who you are. And here are some of the things I'm hearing you tell me about yourself that are not true. Or that <i>are</i> true, that you're willfully not listening to." Because if you had to listen to them, you'd have to take responsibility for them.&nbsp; Yeah, And it's that crux between reaction and responsibility, that I think is so important. I mean, the Latin for responsibility, that when you break it down etymologically, you have response and ability. Responsibility is your ability to respond to a situation in a thoughtful, and effective manner. And I think it's one of the biggest things that we, as human beings need to start doing for each other is taking responsibility of our own approaches to things. And helping other people do the same as well. Lovely. Thank you for that. So we're gonna now, if we may, move in to Two things that never fail to grab your attention. I know you've been implying a lot of that. But...how would you answer that? Language and people...or food. I mean, I'm just going to out myself Food! Nom nom nom nom nom. Grub as well.&nbsp; I mean, you said a lot about the other two. What's your favourite food?*panicked whispering* Where doI start? Oh, What about a snack of choice? I can't - I can't say a margarita, because it's not a food... Margherita? Not the piza, but the drink, Yeah? If anyone wants to send me a bottle of tequila, that'd be lovely.&nbsp; So there was a bing-bong on the door and there's a snack of choice delivered to you right this second. It's actually a cocktail, a margarita. Probably not at 10 in the morning, though.&nbsp; That's good advice to the people listening. I once heard some great advice,&nbsp; Great drinks based advice, which was that If it's blue, it's not for you. I just feel that very, very wise. Yes, I love that. It's like the blue sweets in M&amp;Ms and in&nbsp;Smarties! Something about blue and sort of toxins that arrive at that. We love blue skies, but if it's blue it's not for you, in drink form, is almost... I'm sorry we're not ending the programme there because that's great, It's good, isn't it? What a lovely, beautiful, false ending. Now we're gonna go to one quirky or unusual fact about Eloise we couldn't know until you tell us. I mean, yeah. I dabbled in Olympic weightlifting, not as an Olympian, or even vaguely as an Olympian, mm-mm.&nbsp; No, I did the sport of Olympic, Yes. Did the sport of Olympic weightlifting for a little while. I think one of the best things about it was being in a workshop with a student. And actually, this is what I do as an ice breaker, for them, was I would sit down and I&nbsp;would&nbsp; say,"I would like you to turn to your neighbour, and I'd like you to tell them one unusual fact about yourself and then they're going to tell the rest of the room your unusual fact." So you don't have the embarrassment of having to tell the world your weirdness, but you get to share it with a person, and it worked like a dream. So I love that! Somebody else points out how weird you are? which I mean, Let's just share the mutual weirdness.&nbsp; That was a really amazing way to get to know the students, and I remember when&nbsp;&nbsp; So one class, one class said One class said "Miss Leeson, what's your weird fact?" And I went"I do Olympic weightlifting" and one of the guys in the front row went"Yeah, whatever." And then he got the eyebrow of doom.

And he went: 43:24

"I'm sorry." I said&nbsp; "It's fine. I'm 5 ft 2,&nbsp; I'm a very small person." And he went, "Er, yeah, but&nbsp; What's, what's your max deadlift?"

"Like 92.5 kilos." And he went: 43:30

"Oh,&nbsp; oh yeah, you are strong.""Okay, okay." so I like to throw a barbell around, and&nbsp; do the Arnold Schwarzenegger. I pick up the heavy thing and I put down the heavy thing. So it's not Liam Neeson, that is your namesake. It's Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh, I hope not. What's that - so is that bench pressing? Or is that over your head? It's a variety of different things. So you have your your deadlift, your front squat, your back squat, your clean, your jerk, your snatch - and a whole variety of other things. And you can't say those words without sniggering, can you? The comedian in me needs to move on, now, I think No, it's okay, I have many t shirts, of inappropriate -&nbsp; but that was proof of itself. That list of I know the word snatch is in there. But there were lots of different words there,&nbsp; There that proved you knew what you're talking about.&nbsp; Your back, your front,&nbsp; Oh, thanks! Your hands and knees and your bumps-i-daisies. Lovely! So now we're gonna move away from your tree, which has been very beautifully shaken. And I'm loving the throughline and connection of, intrinsically being intrigued by, and interested by others and wanting and having a desire to connect, which is, may I say, very authentic. Thank you.&nbsp;Now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold, Eloise,&nbsp; When you are at purpose and in flow. What is the alchemy and the gold that, you know, you love to bring in the work's life, or life's work, you've chosen to do? I think that some of the alchemy takes place in conversation with people. So when I'm having a purposeful conversation, especially with a client, for example, it's about sitting down, going."Tell me, Tell me who you think you are." And then let's just tease and unpick and just tug on various different threads to see what unravels in the telling of who you think you are. And then let me repeat that back to you in a way that's going to help you see it from a whole new perspective. That generally is. I guess you could call them alchemical conversations because you have&nbsp; two opposite elements, that are coming together, and then something more than the sum of those parts arrives as a result of that. Generally, that is, is some kind of understanding. So it's either a deeper understanding of a brand or it's a better understanding of oneself or it's ah, a fresher understanding of what the purpose of that person's work is. And this is where - So we're arriving at the story you most think is important to be telling at this point. I think that's a good way to sum it up. Yes, I do.&nbsp; and I think that then, you know. So that's one thread of alchemy and the other part of it is then converting that conclusion. I do a lot of writing, a lot of copyrighting, I write websites and write brand handbooks and write articles for people, and newsletters,&nbsp; a whole variety of different digital comms. And writing something - I recently had a client, and that this was just such a brilliant moment, I had a client and we sat down, and we had the kind of initial conversation, and then he left me to it, and I came back with a sort of, and I wouldn't normally do this, but I come back with a full suite of work that I had done, and I sat, we sat down together, we went through it and&nbsp; I put up a couple of quotes and I put up some of the copy in the text and he sat there,

And he went: 46:40

"You're so good. I've actually got a lump in my throat" and I went "Wow." And he said that he actually felt quite emotional. The way that he was reading about his business, and what he did, was finally the way that he felt about it. But there was a barrier between his own strength of -&nbsp; so he has lots of different strengths -&nbsp; but he doesn't call himself a natural copywriter, for example, but having someone come in, like you've taken someone's brain and you've put it on paper in a way that's true to them And seeing his face light up was just... if I could, If I could do that for every single client, I will be a very happy person and you know, every client is different, so it is going, you know, things will shift and change, but there is something very profound about be able to accurately represent someone, if they haven't been able to do that for a long time. That such a lovely story of how you alchemically weave your magic to deliver the gold that gave the client the lump in the throat. I love that. Thank you. Beautiful. What a lovely story. And now, Eloise, finally and thank you for gracing us with your time here in The Good Listening To Podcast Clearing, I'm going to award you with a cake. Now, if I may, Which is to say thank you very much indeed for being here, and the invitation now is a final storytelling metaphor. You're gonna put a cherry on the cake, which is the legacy of our conversation. As you would like to leave it, again, it's open to interpretation. It could be stuff like a favourite inspirational quote, advice, perhaps to your younger self. Or it could be the best piece of advice you've ever been given Whatever -&nbsp; all it's open to you to interpret as you'd like to. Without being too sort of self-focused or navel gazing, she says, in a podcast, where she's spoken for 85% of it. I think the advice to your younger self is always a really interesting question, Because my first reaction is "don't be a fanny". Like, don't be an idiot, and I think that applies to much of my younger self, in sort of various different degrees. But actually, I think what I would go back and say - snd what I would say to anybody - Is that you are enough. You know, you<i>&nbsp;are </i>enough, and that there is magic in starting. You know, you are enough, even if you don't feel like it,<i>especially </i>if you don't feel like it. And I think that if I could have told myself when I was younger that I was enough, I would have had more bravery and confidence in pursuing a lot of the things that make me very joy -&nbsp; Now I wouldn't change a thing about what's happened in my past, apart from some really crashing mistakes, But you learn from them, don't you? But there is something, definitely, about, I think, if you can, if you can trust that you are enough and extend yourself the same kindness that you would do another person, hopefully! then really good things happen. I think that there is, sort of, balls, bravery, and magic in just getting started on whatever it is that you want to do. And, sorry, last piece of advice - I will stop eventually, I promise. But I think that just and this is another massive segue,&nbsp; But I think we don't spend enough time figuring out what makes us happy. And I don't think there's enough of focus on that. When we grow up. We're taught that&nbsp;we need to be dutiful, and we're told that we need to be sort of societally compliant and *cat noise* but there's a whole variety of different things. And those are different things, by the way, from being respectful and interested in other human beings. But I think that one of the biggest things possible is to look after your own happiness and joy and to understand what those things are that make you happy and to pursue them. So for me, you know the little things make me happy. Our walks outside, perfect cherries in a brown paper bag, the first daffodils,&nbsp; incredibly stormy skies with the sun on them, there's a storm. But it's that incredible contrast of smoke and gold, I mean, I would love to know what makes <i>you </i>happy? it doesn't need to be&nbsp;a Hallmark card. You know? Children's smiles and pumpkin patches, but it can be the first cup of coffee, but we don't spend enough time figuring out what makes us happy. So you are enough. Get started, figure out what gives you joy, and then crack on. And I love that hook and interest and intrigue in there. I'd like to find out what makes you happy. Because you are. You are indeed a connector. Very, very naturally and instinctively. So Eloise Leeson, it's been an absolute pleasure having you here on the Good Listening To Podcast. Where can the listeners - should there be any - haha! Go to find out more about you, and your lovely Olim comms company on the interweb? Absolutely. You can find me lurking, and is lurking, on Instagram @olimcomms. That's O - L - I - M - C - O - M - M - S on Instagram, /olimcomms You can find me on my website, which is www.olimcomms.com You can find me on LinkedIn, Eloise Leeson,&nbsp; and you can email me through the contact form on Olim, if you have any burning questions or profound feedback or GIFs&nbsp; - I welcome a GIF! - Yeah, no, but let's start conversation! It'd be brilliant to hear from anybody who's interested. And of course, we can google Arnold Schwarznegger or Liam Neeson, as well! And you will see my little face.&nbsp; Thank you very much indeed for gracing us with your presence, here on The Good Listening To Podcast. This has been Eloise Leeson,&nbsp; I am Chris Grimes, and good night!