The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

'Founder Story': Unlocking Your Potential with Henry Caplan & Sean Perlmutter from Pivotal Twist. Conquering Self-Limiting Beliefs & Inspiring Huge Personal Development & Growth for Leaders through Theatre & Storytelling as Catalysts for Change

December 06, 2023 Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian
The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius
'Founder Story': Unlocking Your Potential with Henry Caplan & Sean Perlmutter from Pivotal Twist. Conquering Self-Limiting Beliefs & Inspiring Huge Personal Development & Growth for Leaders through Theatre & Storytelling as Catalysts for Change
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

You know those moments when you hit a wall, find yourself stuck in a rut, or feel like you’re just going through the motions? That’s exactly where we found ourselves until we met Sean and Henry from Pivotal Twist. These guys have crafted an innovative approach to talent optimization - a process that has positively transformed our lives and is guaranteed to change yours too. In this episode, they share their unique methodologies, demonstrating how they empower individuals and leaders to conquer self-limiting beliefs and thrive.

Imagine being on a constant growth trajectory, constantly pushing boundaries, both in your personal and professional life. That's the life Sean and Henry live. Their personal stories about their backgrounds in theater, their passion for fostering growth, and the unique ways they challenge themselves, like taking cold showers, offer a fresh, dynamic perspective. These experiences have not only shaped their company, Pivotal Twist, but also have the power to reshape the way you perceive your potential.

We also delve into the transformative power of finding purpose and fulfillment in work. We explore the democratization of permission and the power of DIY in today's world. We shared our favorite inspirational quotes and offered advice to our younger selves, of which the essence was simplicity - focusing on your true passion. We wrapped up the episode by passing on the golden baton to Dmitri Koltinov, founder and CEO of Arbor. As we end this enriching conversation, remember to always breathe and be present in the moment. This podcast episode is a goldmine of inspiration and growth, tune in and let it transform you.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5-4-3-2-1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes. Are you sitting comfortably here? Then we shall begin. What a gorgeous, gorgeous introduction, and I am delighted and thrilled. And hello, linkedin Live as well. I'm thrilled to have two wonderful, special gentlemen here in the Good Listening To Show clearing Stories of Distinction and Genius is a show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place of their choosing to all share with us their stories of distinction and genius. And today, as we go, live on LinkedIn as well, I'm absolutely thrilled to have Sean and Henry from Pivotal Twist in the building.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you so much, Chris.

Speaker 1:

And I need to keep blowing a bit of happy smoke at you. Henry Kaplan first of all, as I've called him for many years man with a plan, ka-plan, I love you in a very healthy way because actually this is history About three years ago. You're my very, very and I love you for this first guinea pig in me getting going on the open road of the Good Listening To Show Three years on, nearly 200 episodes beyond your inaugural episode with me. Here we are and I'm absolutely thrilled to have you back for a second pass through the clearing. And then Sean Pearlmutter, or Pearlmutter as you've just told me, tell us again how to pronounce the pearlmutter Pearlmutter.

Speaker 3:

I think you got it right it's pearlmutter.

Speaker 1:

Pearlmutter, lovely, and you're here to mutter some pearls of wisdom all wager as we go through. This is a special brand-strand episode where we're going to welcome Pivotal Twist into the clearing and I have to ask you a good comedy question have you both played the game for Christmas, pivotal Twist? Uh, see what I did there. It results in pelvic dislocation, I don't doubt, but if you haven't already published a game called Pivotal Twist, you need to.

Speaker 2:

We haven't. It sounds vaguely like a jump to the left, a step to the right, the pelvic thrust from Rocky Horror Picture Show, which maybe we can incorporate and see if we can. Since the part of this is branding, maybe we can tag in on their brand. Sean, what do you think?

Speaker 3:

I like the idea of using the twister game for our own purposes, and instead of dots, we'll be using stories.

Speaker 2:

I love it. Don't dream it, be it.

Speaker 1:

And it's a world exclusive here on LinkedIn that we've actually got a game going as well. Fantastic, as long as it doesn't, because of our age, result in pelvic dislocation, as I think I already said. So my absolute privilege and pleasure to welcome you here through and curate you through the journey of this show. But first of all, if I can just surprise you both with a bit of a sort of googly question we all experience it, particularly on LinkedIn. We all go to networking events. If someone is an intelligent layperson and clocks you both and thinks, go, you look interesting, tell me, what do you do? We all hate that question, but we've got to find a way of doing it. What's your favorite way pivotal twist, henry and Sean of describing what you do?

Speaker 2:

First of all, I'm going to defer to Sean first.

Speaker 3:

We help leaders. I'm happy to answer. We help leaders and their organizations leverage their talent in order to win, grow and thrive.

Speaker 1:

Lovely answer. Anything to add, Mr Henry Kaplan?

Speaker 2:

Empowering individuals to work past their self-limiting beliefs and to do whatever they do with more gusto, more passion, and do it better.

Speaker 1:

Drop the mic, good night. That's almost we could, if you. There's an adage within comedy improvisation If you can't stop it, stop it and that will stop it. That's awesome. In researching you, I really enjoyed the fact that you have one mission, which is summed up, combined with what you've just said to actualize success by optimizing your talent, as in the talent of your clients, which is wonderful. If I can just congratulate you for that really sweet way of answering that googly question, first of all, yes, how's morale? What's your story of the day? I know Henry's dialing in from New York and Sean is here from San Francisco. I'm in Bristol, 100 miles west of London, in the UK. Isn't the internet phenomenal? But how's morale? What's your story of the day? Please, henry and Sean.

Speaker 2:

My story of the day is that we have a new dog named Frida. She's nine months old. She is a little scamp. The thing about my neighborhood is that I've lived here for 15 years. The majority of that time I really didn't meet many people other than the people in my building. As soon as you have a dog, it's a catalyst to meet everyone around you. So a 25 mile radius or you could do the conversion into whatever that distance is globally If we're walking and we're scrolling and you meet me and the dog, suddenly we're immediately bonded. So the dog is now Frida is now the conduit to my social life.

Speaker 1:

I love that she takes you for a walk on the daily, and your radius is expanding in ever increasing circles, which sounds fantastic.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

Sean over to you in San Francisco. What's your story of the day, please?

Speaker 3:

I am developing a game show, Chris, a live game show for couples that I'm going to be hosting. I'll be doing the first performance on March 23rd and then I expect to grow from there and take it on the road.

Speaker 2:

Where are you doing that, Sean?

Speaker 3:

The Paper Wing Theater in Monterey, California.

Speaker 1:

Lovely. It sounds like a version of Mr and Mrs. If you remember that global game, is that right?

Speaker 3:

I don't know that one, but I was inspired by the newlywed game.

Speaker 1:

Excellent. So by all means, plug that specifically again at the end of the as we reincorporate, as we know, as one of the juicy skills or the silky skills of storytelling is to reincorporate, tell people what you want to tell them, tell them and then tell them again about your wonderful new game show. So shall we get on the open road of curating you through the structure of the Good Listening 2 show? I'm ready. So thank you for pre-preparing just a few questions. The Bish-Bash-Bosh route map of what we're going to do. There's a clearing a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 54321. There's some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, first of all and this is going to be so exciting, by the way, because it's lovely to be doing this as a double act I think of you as being, you know, the Abbott and Costello, or the Stan and Ollie, or maybe two of the Marx brothers in the training environment, because your sense of humour, like mine, is just a delight to be hold.

Speaker 2:

As long as we're not both harper.

Speaker 1:

Yes, if you're both harper, that's just lots of so, not that. So, first of all, it all takes place energetically in a clearing or serious happy place of your choosing. So where do Pivotal Twist? Where do Henry and Sean go to get clutter-free, inspirational and able to think?

Speaker 3:

We are on stage, chris, that is our happy place. When we are in front of an audience, when we are performing, telling stories, speaking to people, when we're on stage, we are on, we're in flow, so to speak. It is a very happy place. We're comfortable there, we feel confident there and energized.

Speaker 1:

Lovely answer and so relatable to the first ever theatre book I ever read, which was Peter Brooks the Empty Space. An empty space brimming in charge with potential, where anything is possible. I love the fact that on stage is your in flow place as well. Wonderful. If I may, then the rest of the program now emanates from that centre point. If you like with us, you on stage. Now I'm going to arrive, a bit waiting for Godot-esque and a bit existentialy, with a tree in your clearing. By the way, we could use the sort of what three words type geographic GPS thing. Is there a very specific space on stage you want to talk about or are you just talking about on stage generically?

Speaker 2:

Well, we could talk about on stage generically, but for me I always found centre stage, so it's maximum visibility. When you are in that point where you are communing with your audience and sharing a critical moment with them. It at some times is vulnerable, but it is very open and exposed and that's where often the juice is.

Speaker 1:

So Lovely expression. So I'm arriving now with a tree. I'm going to shake your tree now to see which storytelling apples fall out. How'd you like these apples? And this is your response to a lovely construct called 54321, where, henry and Sean, you've had five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention and borrow from the film up. That's a bit bull squirrels, you know what never fails to grab your attention, irrespective of anything else that's going on for you in your hectic lives. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. So over to you both to interpret the shaking of your canopy as you see fit.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think I'll go first, if that's OK, sean. And so one thing that has shaped both Sean and I is related to the stage. Surprise, surprise, and it is the theater. You know, in coaching, training, empowering people, you know, so much of the work that we both do is rooted in this notion of the theater, because in the theater it's a glorious mix, just like in business, of planning and strategizing and preparation, in being proactive and creating goals and setting those goals, and then get out there and do it and it's happening in real time and there's obstacles and someone coughs, and you know it's aspirational and broad and visionary and human and fraught with all sorts of challenge and resolve. So the theater is so inspirational. It's the place of great ideas too, and it's also the place of critical questions. Great play asks a great question, great actor delving into a role asks a great question, and a great leader or emerging leader is all about continually asking questions. So that's just the tip of the metaphoric tree there, the one of the leaves, but there's so much more to branch off on in terms of the theater.

Speaker 1:

Resonate so beautifully for that very generous and brilliant answer about the clearing being where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to get told. So that's a beautiful segue. Anything to add to that, Sean.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely Well. It's no surprise that you use the word story, because story, story, telling stories, is another thing that has shaped Henry and I and Pivotal Twist. When we were young men we were actors and writers and directors. We were firmly entrenched in that world and then went on to work in the professional world, you know, serving corporations and organizations and and leaders, and strangely, or perhaps not surprisingly, storytelling did not drop off. Storytelling informed all of our work in coaching and training and consulting. So story has been ever present for us and has been a totem, in fact a guiding light for our work as we have gone on in our professional lives as well, so easily. One of the things that has shaped us is storytelling. In fact it's a pillar of our company today.

Speaker 1:

Oh, thank you. I couldn't help noticing the word totem there. Lovely storytelling of itself Wonderful. So more shape pages please. You've got two more shape pages.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely and here's my opportunity to blow some smoke right back at you, chris, and to you as well, sean and that's working with creative people. You know, one of the things that has shaped me has been great mentors in my world and being able to work with people who have insightful points of you, different levels of expertise, but fundamentally creative people who think differently, who look for multiple solutions, multiple angles. You know I don't know if you're sensing a theme here, but you know, if you look at story and you look at theater, story being looking at yourself and placing yourself as the hero in your journey, theater is, you know, being visible, proactive, reactive and then, ultimately, you know, being able to be creating something aspirational in real time. You know, in this marvelous, imperfect world that is the stage, but working with creative people to support you in doing that. You know I I've learned so much and one of the theater directors that I worked with years ago this woman by the name of Anne Bogart and you can look her up, there's lots of great footage of her and she created a theater company that was built on dynamics, where it was all about asking more questions and being creative and looking at what a play can be in a different way. And it got us thinking, sean and I, about well, how about business culture? Because every time we got in front of into a new play or a new movie, it was a new culture. Right, between Sean and I, we've worked in hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of cultures and this idea of well, who do we gravitate towards? The most creative, the most creative tend to be the most fun, you know, the most imaginative, so it's such a powerful thing.

Speaker 1:

And there's that super objective perspective in being immersed in many, many multiple cultures where it's the nature of ensemble at play there as well.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Lovely.

Speaker 1:

So final shape each gentleman Chris.

Speaker 3:

I don't think this will blow your mind at all, but both personal and professional development has shaped us, henry and I. Both are sponges for knowledge and we want to grow. We're always after growth in our careers, in our family life, personally, spiritually, all the things we are looking to keep expanding. I think there's a line it might have been Bob Dylan that's saying you know, if you ain't growing, you're slowing. And it's true. And, needless to say, you know we built our business on the backs of professional development, wanting to help others to also adopt that same mindset and and exceed their current standards so that they can become more. And the same thing goes for the, for the personal side too. So we are both shaped and the company for pivotal twist is shaped by personal and professional development.

Speaker 1:

And I love the future. So I was going to say I love the future. Focus implicit in pivotal twist. It's now and what's next? The pivotal twist to take you forward towards your future.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, in order to be talking about that later in the show, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, Henry, back to you.

Speaker 2:

Oh no, I was. I was just going to say that. You know, in terms of personal and professional development, we're almost, like you know, the concept of extreme sports you see all over the place. You know this idea of getting out of your comfort zone, and you know we have gotten to be, sean and I, somewhat of a adrenaline, adrenaline mavens, people who lean into well, if it isn't challenging, but it's not worth doing. Let's delve deep, deeper, asking those harder questions and encouraging people to go there. You know so, personal and professional development, which is what we, we we offer professional development, but the two are often related, and leaning into getting out of your comfort zone is something that Sean and I both model. We love to do that for each other too.

Speaker 1:

And I've heard the stretching of the comfort zone being a bit like sort of swimming outside, from away from the reef, so the water gets a bit colder, but that's where you're going to expand your comfort zone by swimming further away, 100%. And I've been taking.

Speaker 3:

I've been taking to doing cold showers. You know you might have heard about the trend of cold plunges. So I've been yeah, I've been meeting myself halfway. I don't have the tub to do the cold plunge, so instead, after I soap up and it's time to rinse, I turn the temperature down as far as it can go. It's frigid, but I count down from 75 to one, just enjoying that and it's intense. It really gets me going and it's very unusual. It's a way for me to try something new and you know, and adopt the rewards from it afterwards.

Speaker 1:

I love the magic number of 75 because that's going the extra mile, for I'll do this for a minute. You're going to go for a minute and then 15 extra seconds of pain in that. I love that Exactly. So now, thank you for that first set of answers to the shape page. Now it's three things that inspire you, please, great.

Speaker 3:

I'll start this one off. It may I'm saying this every time come as no surprise to you, chris. That's the one, because you know it's well enough at this point. But you know what has inspired us? Humor. Henry and I are always energized, inspired by, stimulated by humor. In our daily work and in our personal lives, we're always seeking to crack each other up, to make each other laugh, to make our loved ones laugh. We like to be around people who are quick to laugh. Humor is a way of cutting the knees off of crises and difficulty in our life. It lightens things up and allows us to have the right mindset to move forward, and it's also, just plain, a lot of fun. So it's our modus operandi for each day, and humor is easily the first thing that came to mind. For both of us, that was an inspiration.

Speaker 1:

And how long have you both known each other? By the way, I've known Henry for 13 years now, but how long have you known each other?

Speaker 3:

Let's see 320. Quite a few years it's been an end and I'll get to that story also later with you, Chris 92, 93 probably, so you know yes.

Speaker 1:

Long time. You got history, you guys, you got history.

Speaker 2:

We definitely do and humor definitely bonded us. But you know, again, I prefaced this by saying there's nothing more boring than the deep analysis of humor. You know, humor frequently stems from something went wrong.

Speaker 1:

And if I may Henry, horribly wrong. One of my best memories of you in the early days sort of psychology of a first impression I visited New York to do some work with working voices who we have in common and I was a bit jet lagged and spilling things and I spilt coffee on Henry and I kept being clumsy and as we went into the subway Henry said try not to touch anything. So it just really made me laugh how he's very kind with the fact I was actually endangering him as well as myself as we descended somewhere.

Speaker 2:

Marvel. But it brings us together because it's a shared humanity and everybody can relate to the imperfections that life brings right. So if you can embrace the humor in it, you know it's so empowering.

Speaker 1:

Lovely inspiration. Number two, please. And by the way, I've got a bell for you know, cashier. Number two, please. All right Nice bell.

Speaker 2:

And that bell is the Pavlovian bell of transformation. Thank, you Sean and I are deeply passionate about working with, with emerging leaders and leaders, people who are in transformation. I was flown to London a few years ago and I worked with a team of emerging leaders on a presentation and executive presence in this one gentleman, he he had a speech impediment, he struggled with his speech and in the workshop we did recordings. We did digital recordings and playbacks. And to watch him watch himself and to see how much better he was than he thought he was, to have his colleagues reflect back, these are the powerful qualities that you resonate. These are the marvelous things that you communicate, not just being nice but being honest and I pause for a moment because what was behind his eyes in that moment was truly extraordinary. You know, and you kind of live for those moments where someone gets a real taste of the powerful impact that they create. So transformation.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful answer. Love that Absolutely. And now the third inspiration.

Speaker 3:

We are both inspired by music, chris. We both listen to a lot of music. We go watch music being performed live. Henry and I both make music as well, when we can. And music is the universal language for a reason it cuts through all the guff and hits you in the heart. It is, almost by definition, inspirational because it hits in a different way, it communicates to you in a different way, it moves you in a different way, and so if we can, even lyrically, poetically, touch the energy that music gives to us and then extend it to our clients and the people around us, we've done something right.

Speaker 1:

And is your music taste eclectic to each other, or have you got the same music taste?

Speaker 3:

There's some crossover, but I think that there is also a bit of diversion. I listen to a lot of different music, so many different types. I couldn't even begin to tell you, and I know Henry does as well. So, yeah, there's a Venn diagram there.

Speaker 2:

I do as well, and what inspires me about music is that it's experiential, and so much of our work is this idea of you can't overly intellectualize why this Mahler symphony is having that effect on you, and that is so much. A part of the work that Sean and I do is to give people the tools, also the experience of those tools, so that they understand it intellectually. But they develop the muscle memory and music does that music. There are times you listen to a piece of music and you're transported to a time and a place that you haven't thought of in years and years and years. Or you listen to music that you haven't listened to in a long time and you have a completely different experience of it. But it is experiential and that resonates in terms of inspiration for Sean and I.

Speaker 1:

If music be the food of love, play on. We're on to two squirrels now. What never fails to, oh squirrels, distract you. Whatever else is going on in your hectic lies as a pivotal twist.

Speaker 3:

Great. You know, chris, one thing that never fails to capture our attention are rags to riches. Stories are people who go from nothing to something. Now, by the way, that doesn't have to only pertain to money, it doesn't have to only pertain to the acclamation of material wealth. It just means going from nothing to something, and that is so juicy. It's so compelling that, wherever it's happening in the world, you can see it in the news, you can see it in stories being told, you can see it in your friends and family. When something like that happens, it's one of those moments. Somebody has gone through something and come out the other side. It's so beautiful and compelling. We both just love it.

Speaker 1:

What an awesome squirrel. And now your second squirrel, please. What else never fails to? Don't squirrel? Grab your attention.

Speaker 2:

Well, what's grabbing my attention particularly right now is our relationship to technology, particularly as it relates to communication, since the three of us are, you know, definitely in that world of communication, and look at the platform we're on right now, oh my goodness. So this idea of technology, particularly around communication as a tool, a central tool, and how we use it for good and not so good, and what that's doing without much of a proactive, just reactive response to the world, again has its pros and has its cons. So I often think nowadays about, in terms of grabbing our attention, that this is a tool and how is it being used and what is the impact, conscious but unconscious, of it, and how can we start to use it even more effectively, right, what are we doing that? What are we putting in front of of the lens? How are we expressing ourselves? How are we deepening or using the tools to deepen connection rather than polarize us? You know, and that's definitely the, the, the. I'm old enough that I remember the, the rotary phone. You called someone. There was no answering machine, they didn't answer. You know, now everyone is accountable, 24, seven. We in the palm of our hand have a supercomputer that in the 60s, well, it would be the size of a city block. You know, that sits in our hands and it's an endless stream of information. And how are we processing that information and what affect is it having on us, consciously and unconsciously? Now, I'm not that, you know, get off my lawn. You know, it's not that I'm anti technology, but I I'm very much focused on how we are taking that in for better and for not so bad.

Speaker 1:

And what voice, voice. And it is a wonderful thing, because here I am in a pivotal twist sandwich. You're in New York, you're in San Francisco, I'm in Bristol. It's a miracle, it's fantastic. And now a quirky or unusual fact about you, henry, sean and pivotal twist. We couldn't possibly know about you until you told us.

Speaker 3:

Henry, have at it.

Speaker 2:

You love the way you tell this story All right, Sean and I met Doing an off off Broadway play in the early 90s in New York City soho district. So who? Yeah, and we did the four hour musical production of Frankenstein, the musical. This. This show had, oh, I think, a handful of performances, the hottest time of the year in a theater with 99 seats and no air conditioning, and did I mention it was four hours long? Sean had two scenes. He had the scene in the opening and the scene in the clothes and had to sit around and wait three and a half hours for the curtain call. Every night I would go off and come on and go off and come on and see Sean and he had a little picnic basket and every night he would have a different dinner, a gourmet, marvelous dinner, turkey leg one day, swagger on the next. It was just a treasure trove of what is Sean eating. Well, I am, like you know, whipping off the spirit gum and tearing off the mustache and throwing something else on, and we became fast friends. This, by the way, was a great example of wow. This is so much more fun to do than it is to watch the audience as they would exit the theater at the first or second or third hour because it was five hours with no air conditioning. The theater had a spring, so when you've got the seats, how to spring? So every time anybody exited it just made this really loud sound. So you're acting, you're up there and you hear it. Just knew it wasn't going well but in keeping with what inspires us, Sean and I became fast friends because we both found the enormous humor in doing that play that way.

Speaker 1:

And was this a picnic? Very much for one in his little basket, or so you're just vicariously enjoying his foie gras or whatever he turned up with that day, or is he actually sharing some plays?

Speaker 2:

I don't recall ever asking for a nibble, did I Sean?

Speaker 3:

If you did, I would have turned you down. That was my food.

Speaker 1:

Yes, lovely answer. We have shaken your tree, gentlemen Hurrah, now we stay in the clearing, which is your energetic theater space, your empty space brimming in charge with potential. And now we're going to talk about alchemy and gold. Please.

Speaker 3:

Love it.

Speaker 1:

Crops no extra charge. You're welcome. So when you're at purpose and in flow, henry and Sean, what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Speaker 3:

I promised you earlier that we would come around to the definition of a pivotal twist, and now is the perfect time. A pivotal twist is the moment in every great story when the main character goes through significant change that impacts their fortune. People love our company name, pivotal Twist. It brings up a smile and it also, I think, somehow connotes this moment of change, and Henry and I spoke about transformation and how important that is to us. Needless to say, that is important to our clients and we, henry and I, want to catalyze that type of transformation in the people around us. That's why our company is named Pivotal Twist. We love that transformation. We love it for ourselves in personal and professional development. We love it for our clients. We love to see organizations go through that pivotal twist and become something more, become something greater, where again, where they can win, thrive and grow. That's such a beautiful thing, and when we are doing that, we are absolutely in flow. Time stops. You're just in the challenge of it. Henry and I are very skilled at working with our clients and trying to get them to that twist. Sometimes it happens gradually, you know, over weeks or months or sessions. Sometimes it happens in an instant, and those times are just precious.

Speaker 1:

And if I can just congratulate you for the words canote and catalyze and alongside totem, that's three awesome words brought to you by Pivotal Twist. They're fantastic. Anything you want to add to that, henry?

Speaker 2:

Well gosh, that pretty much summed it up. Chris, that was pretty on point, I have to say.

Speaker 1:

In which case we'd now arrive, gentlemen, at the it's Time to Award you with a cake, please. I love cake, I love cake, which is my next question. So if you don't like cake, you're obviously quite strange. If you're watching and you don't like cake, what's the matter with you? But what cake would you both like, please? It's a metaphorical cake, but what cake would you like?

Speaker 2:

Oh gosh, I would like a cake of harmony, a cake of understanding, a cake of empathy, A cake where everybody does that crazy dance called the Pivotal Twist that you were talking about earlier.

Speaker 1:

Which is a new board game, as we know.

Speaker 3:

Indeed, Henry tell Chris about the Stanislavski case.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's a piece of cake that I can chew on. These questions are really interesting, chris, because they spawn some powerful self-reflection, and one of them, related to the cake, was what would you tell your younger self? Besides, you know, sit up straight and mind your peas and queues, which I heard a lot of as a child. So what would I tell myself? And you know, when I started as an actor and a director and a writer, I would very much focus on getting the job. I would focus on getting the reviews. I would focus on you know how I was coming across and you know, one of the things that I ruminated on was this quote from Konstantin Stanislavski, the godfather, if you will, of modern acting, where he said you know art in yourself, not yourself in the art. Love the art in yourself, not yourself in the art. And this idea broadening through business, of trusted advisor or servant leadership or reciprocity and acts of generosity that as soon as the mindset stopped being about me, me, me and what else about me? And enough about me, chris. What do you love about me? And it got to be about things that were more broadly, about the greater impact in the world, living your values and infusing them in every facet of your life. Right Work is just an extension of our creative expression of ourselves. You know how, about loving the art in yourself and being giving of that, being generous of spirit in how you dole that out.

Speaker 1:

And thank you so much for going into the sort of substance of the cake, and it is exactly that. Notes to a younger self is coming as well. But any other inspirational quotes apart from that one that you'd like to share? So what's a favorite inspirational quote for you both? That's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future.

Speaker 3:

Hmm, both of us, when we were young and, in the acting game, went on auditions, we needed a gatekeeper to be able to say yes, you're good enough to be called back and be considered for the part. Yes, we think you're tall enough, you're bright enough, you're handsome enough, you're funny enough, you're talented enough. And to look back on that now, chris, is to think, wow, we gave up so much power to somebody else. And now, apropos of your previous comment, henry, about technology and how important and ubiquitous it is in our lives right now, we have so much more power to do things ourselves. We can make our own movies. We can write our own novels, we can. We can bring people together. We can form our communities. We can teach others there. We can do anything we want. The thing is, you've got to be able to start and accept that we have that power and we can make good on that. So for the people that are more natural followers, who need to be told what to do, I think that there's going to be some consequences to that. There are some. There are some challenges or barriers to entry. When you attack life in that way or you do, you attack your career and your work that way. Instead, look for ways to do it yourself. One of the things that Henry and I talk about oftentimes with professionals in organizations is not entrepreneurship, but intrapreneurship. You're already in an organization. Now find a way to be a leader. Now find a way to make something happen. When you do that, you will naturally rise to the top and do something even greater for yourself. So DIY is going to be my answer for that.

Speaker 1:

So a fundamental democratization of permission and the ability to do it yourself. I love that. What a great answer.

Speaker 2:

I have one more quote for you real fast, and it's Bob Dylan, because Sean mentioned Bob Dylan. He, who's not busy born, is busy dying from. It's all right, mal, and I think that underscores the theme of a lot of what we're talking about. Right, I think about that a lot.

Speaker 1:

And anything else to say about what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given. You gave us some brilliant advice just then about DIY. That's what you like to offer, but what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Speaker 2:

For me, it was an acting teacher years ago and I was in this acting class and we're all doing these exercises and this acting teacher, who had been taught by Lee Strasberg the extension of Stanislavski, he whispered in my ear while I was doing the exercise you're enough, You're enough.

Speaker 3:

Lovely Anything to add, Sean, Best advice I ever got. I can boil it down to one word Breathe. I am a on again, off again meditator. There are rewards aplenty for being present, and when you breathe, when you understand that there is inhale and exhale, in and out, you ground yourself in the here and now, and that is where beauty, power and miracles can happen.

Speaker 1:

Boom, love that. And just a final bit of the cake is with the gift of hindsight, what notes, help or advice might you offer to a younger version of Pivotal Twist?

Speaker 3:

Mmm, a younger version of our organization. Ah, what we would say for sure is simplify. When we started, chris, we were a little too broadly focused, and it took us a year or two to understand that we needed to cut some of the chaff. I think it's the Stephen King quote that says you need to be able to kill your babies, and he didn't mean that we have a horror writer. He didn't mean that literally, but as you write, as you create, you sometimes need to let go of those things that you consider so precious, and when we started, our focus was too broad and we needed to cut some of that off. So, needless to say, when there are fewer choices, then it's much easier to narrow in narrow, excuse me, to narrow your focus on the one thing that matters the most.

Speaker 1:

Which relates beautifully to that idea of being inch wide and mile deep in what we are able to bring to the world. Indeed, that's great advice for any company trying to do too many things to please all the people all the time and end up pleading nobody, least of all yourself.

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

We're now ramping up to a bit of Shakespeare, in a moment where we're going to talk about legacy, but just before we get there, this is the past. The golden baton moment, please. So, having experienced this from within, who would you most like to pass the golden baton along to, to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going?

Speaker 2:

gentlemen, Ooh well, I would like to pass the baton. Sean and I collectively discussed this. Dmitri Koltinov, who is the founder and CEO of Arbor. It is a brilliant story infused company that takes great messaging and thought leaders and even individuals and laymen and figures out a way of recording and editing and musicalizing and doing all that great stuff. Stories, stories. It could be the story of your grandfather's journey from Dublin to New York. It could be your company's origin story, but they have developed a way of creating, through AI technology, almost documentary feel of your stories. And they can. Since we're on social media, they can create a LinkedIn, they can create an Insta, they can create a myriad of different messaging. It's a really marvelous, marvelous service and we there are strategic partners with us. We've worked with them and they're great.

Speaker 1:

And just to replant the name Dmitri Arbor, you said is that right?

Speaker 3:

No, Dmitri Koltinov and his company name.

Speaker 1:

Arbor. It's all about listening. I'm so sorry, but that's great, that's all right. So your mission, chugitou, is to accept, it is to furnish me with a warm introduction in that direction. Hurrah, the golden bat in its past, thank you. And now, inspired by Shakespeare and, by the way, this is quite exciting, this isn't a first folio, but it's actually my first folio. This is the actual complete works that I bought, that I went to drama school, the Bristol Ulrich Theatre School. It says in the entrance here 16986,. I thank you. So inspired by Shakespeare, all the worlds are staged, all the bedded with the dearly players. So let's talk about legacy now, gentlemen, and how, when all is said and done, how you and or pivotal twist would most like to be remembered.

Speaker 3:

We are, very simply, transformation catalysts. We make growth happen. That's how we want to be remembered. We were those guys that helped other people and other organizations grow. If that's all that people remembered about Henry and Sean and Pivotal Twist, we would be very happy.

Speaker 2:

Notice how he speaks the speech, notice how trippingly on the tongue, notice how easily his hands no flailing about. I wish I could quote the Shakespeare.

Speaker 1:

We love that To show us to her the mirror up to nature. In fact, you've given me an idea. We'll end the whole program on the last line of Hamlet pertaining to his life. Excellent, so where can we find out now, really importantly, all about all things, pivotal Twist on the old hint of web, please.

Speaker 3:

You can find us on LinkedIn, both personally and Pivotal Twist as its own page. Of course, there is a Pivotal Twist YouTube page where you can see videos of each of us individually and together, and, of course, we have a rockin website at PivotalTwistcom.

Speaker 1:

And on the old socials, are you on the Twitter and the Instas and all that shablang as well?

Speaker 3:

We are, yes, on Instagram. There's a few of them out there. You can find us pretty easily.

Speaker 2:

You got me really nervous because you said shablang. I thought there's like a new social thing about shablang.

Speaker 1:

There should be one. So we've got a game in the making, the Pivotal Twister, and we've got a new social media platform called Shablang.

Speaker 3:

I like it.

Speaker 1:

That's a good word, I like that Awesome, so wonderful, as this has been your moment in the sunshine in the Good Listening 2 show stories of distinction and genius, henry and Sean. Is there anything else you'd like to say?

Speaker 2:

There is Sean. Would you like to go first?

Speaker 3:

Chris story is conflict and resolution. But it's too easy in this life to get bogged down in conflict. There's personal conflicts, there's professional conflict. We know there's political conflict, health and family. It's just too easy to be focused on the conflict. And when you're bogged down in conflict then resolution doesn't manifest easily and it doesn't manifest quickly and sometimes it doesn't manifest at all. We prefer the resolution to go along with the conflict. In fact we want the resolution to come after the conflict. That's where a good story is told. So that leads us to mindset and, henry, I'll let you finish that second half of the part of it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's inspiring to think about. What we focus on is what we manifest, right, and one of the themes that we've been talking about. We're talking about social media, for good or for bad. We're talking about technology, for good or for bad, and what we focus on, you know, can really have an affect on our performance. So, as I've been reflecting and Sean has been reflecting on the current political climate and social unrest and all the challenges, I had a moment where I a moment of revelation in terms of mindset. I was sitting in my neighborhood in Queens, very busy intersection with cars and flashing lights and people walking and lots of action, and I just looked around and I said you know what I'm going to do for one minute, in this moment of despair, I'm going to actually take one minute and count every active cooperation that I can witness in front of me in this one minute how many people who are inadvertently walking down the street negotiating the distance, how many people are stopping at the stoplight, how many people are paying money and how much actual cooperation is happening around me. And you know, arguably, again, you can manifest what you read, what you put in front of you, and if what's in front of you is a screen with the most horrible, the most depressing, the most uninspiring and demotivating. That's what we cultivate. That's not to say that we shouldn't see the world without blinders, but what we choose to really ruminate on in terms of mindset. I counted close to 35 acts of cooperation in that one minute. Nobody said this is the law you have. Just everybody just went along and did it. So one of the things that Sean and I work on so much is culture, this idea of culture, and it was an example of mindset, proactive, equalling culture, equalling harmony, and that's another thing. That's a big obsession of ours and it was a. It made me feel good in that moment to not just profess these things and coach these things, but to model it in a moment where I needed to coach myself.

Speaker 1:

And, in the chaos, restoring your faith in humanity by about 30 acts of cooperation and reciprocity within one minute of time. Lovely so. Thank you so much, henry and Sean, for wedging me in the most gorgeous, pivotal twist sandwich by being on here sandwiched between New York, san Francisco and here in Bristol. Thank you for watching on LinkedIn as well. Check out the website, the good listening to show dot com. If you've been watching a new two would like to be my guest. And thank you so much, and in a moment I'm going to ramp up to ending with a bit of Shakespeare, but just before I go, any final words, gentlemen.

Speaker 3:

Love each other. And anything else after you, mr Kaplan oh no, that's it.

Speaker 2:

Love, love each other. Have a great time. Thank you, chris. Extraordinary act of generosity having us on here. I adore everything about you from the moment I met you. Excellent, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3:

And thank you and Sean yours, chris, is a sandbox that I will always accept the invitation to play in. Thanks a bunch for having us.

Speaker 1:

And now, as promised, the line from Shakespeare. Thanks for listening. The rest is silence. You've been listening to the Good Listening to Show here on UK Health Radio with me, chris Grimes oh, it's my son. If you've enjoyed the show, then please do tune in next week to listen to more stories from the Clearing. If you'd like to connect with me on LinkedIn, then please do so. There's also a dedicated Facebook group for the show too. You can contact me about the programme or, if you'd be interested in experiencing some personal impact coaching with me, carry my level up. Your impact programme. That's chrisatsecondcurveuk On Twitter and Instagram. It's at that, chris Grimes. So until next time for me, chris Grimes from UK Health Radio. I'm from Stan to your Good Health and Goodbye. So, sean and Henry from Pivotal Twist, you've just been given a damn good listening to in this construct. Could I get your immediate feedback on what that was like to be curated through this journey?

Speaker 2:

Well, chris, it was an absolute blast. We always felt like we were in great hands. We always asked marvelous, provocative, interesting questions, and it gave us an opportunity to reflect and also a platform to communicate to the world, as we say. So, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1:

You're welcome.

Speaker 3:

I love the framework that you set up, chris. It makes it very comfortable for us as guests and it gives us a different lens to look at our work and our lives to talk about. So much appreciated. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

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