'Founder Story' with Calum Byers from Schiltron Associates: The Scottish Pipe-Smoking Wise Owl of an Executive Coach, with over 3,000 Hours of Coaching Experience & all Conducted from his Dedicated 'Coaching Chair'!

Ever wondered how an Executive Coach with over 3,000 hours of experience working with over 100 of the world's biggest companies could help you to unlock your full potential?

Delighted to welcome Calum Byers, the Scottish pipe-smoking Coach, here to tell us his ‘Founder Story’:  The story-behind-the-story of his company Schiltron Associates and his personal journey into the world of Coaching.

You can also watch/listen to Calum's episode here: https://www.linkedin.com/video/live/urn:li:ugcPost:7121119109815091200/

Calum is a richly experienced Executive Coach with over 3000 hours of coaching experience with 450 clients from over 100 companies including : Babcock, Starbucks, Spotify, Microsoft, RBS, Vodafone, Morgan Stanley, Equinix, CocaCola, UBS, HSBC, TES, Thomson Reuters, Squarespace, Angel Trains, the FCA, the IPO and a wide range of start-ups and SMEs.

Recorded also as a LinkedIn LIVE with Calum broadcasting from his dedicated and very special 'Coaching Chair', making him Calum "Chair of the Board" Byers!

As we journey through Calum's rich tapestry of life experiences, we explore his African roots, his parents' missionary work, and his relentless curiosity & quest for knowledge. An engineer by training & background Calum is a corporate man turned Coach.

He candidly discusses his fears and self-discoveries, shedding light on how he has been influenced by his family, particularly the determination of his son and his daughter's pursuit of their dreams.

Our conversation then veers into an unusual but fitting metaphor—Midwifery for Coaching. We delve into the importance of structure and framework, drawing parallels with the role of a midwife. Inspirational quotes that have shaped Calum's life, his sweet spot for carrot cake, and his views on legacy and purpose - all making for a most enjoyable episode indeed!

See also Calum's website: http://www.schiltronassociates.com

Enjoy!

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

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Thanks for listening!

Transcript

Chris Grimes: 0:07

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, are you sitting comfortably here? Then we shall begin, and I bid you extremely welcome.

Chris Grimes: 0:59

Mr Callum Byers, welcome to the clearing of the Good Listening To Show stories of distinction and genius. We're here crossing all multimedia platforms, we're doing a LinkedIn live as we record, and this is a special brand-strand founder story episode of the show where we're going to find out the story behind the story, the who, the, what, the, where, the, what, the, how, the and, crucially, where we can go and find out all about. Callum Byers from Shiltern Associates, the sound of one man clapping. You're extremely welcome. How are you? How's morale? What's your story of the day, callum?

Calum Byers: 1:35

Well, good afternoon Chris. Thank you for the invitation to come on your show. I'm looking forward to this. First time I've done this as a podcast. I'm interested in all the technology part of it as well. So I'm sitting here in a slightly damp Edinburgh afternoon. This is not quite as windy as it was, but I'm very comfortable in my own chair, just ready to explore wherever we go.

Chris Grimes: 1:57

And it's going to be my great pleasure to curate you through the various story gates of the Good Listening To Show. When we first met each other a few weeks ago on Zoom, I was very struck with your very enigmatic coaching chair that you are almost thrown like sitting a stance at the moment. I thought of you as being like the chair of the board See what I'm doing there because that's the chair through which you've done over 3,000 hours. I'm gathering it must be quite a well-worn chair of coaching experience across some of the most impressive companies on the planet. I have to say so, yes, it's a great chair. Where did you get your chair from? It's a tremendous chair.

Calum Byers: 2:36

It's actually there's a little shop just from the corner from us in Edinburgh. My wife saw it and she said I'll send my husband to go and collect it. So she did. I went out and I would. Julie went and collected it and it's been tremendous. I've actually got two of them. I've got a chair facing me so if I ever meet people face to face they've got exactly the same chair so we can sit there. I think it's become a big part of the coaching. Maybe I'll get to the stage where the chair will do the coaching for me, but we're not quite there.

Chris Grimes: 2:59

Yes, when you scale up to the point where the chairs listen for so many hours, it can just do it for you.

Chris Grimes: 3:06

It's a very good listener the chair, actually yes, as indeed are you, sir, and you're extremely welcome and very happy to be here. So we're going to curate you through just before we get on to the gates that I've described. If someone asks you that rather clunky question at a networking event which we've all been to, and someone says hello, what do you do? I know it's a really clunky question, I experience it a lot too. But if someone does come up to you and say what do you do? What's your favorite way of answering or avoiding that question?

Calum Byers: 3:34

So I would say, Chris, that I help people to recognize and to move towards the full potential, and I do that in two ways. I think one of them is helping them identify and move towards what they can do more effectively, be it team, be it their own personal working, be it interpersonal, whatever. And the second thing we explore is do they want to do something different? And often it comes people who are up to stage in their lives they've finished one thing, and just helping them identify what that something different might be and to help them move towards that greater purpose perhaps.

Chris Grimes: 4:11

And what's the story behind Shiltron Associates? How come you've arrived at that name?

Calum Byers: 4:16

Because I like the sound of it. It's as simple as that. I just like the sound of the word Shiltron. For some reason it resonated with me. I'm not sure it was the ideal choice, because it's a bit of a bugger to spell sometimes. I should probably have picked some new sort of.

Chris Grimes: 4:30

When I first read it I thought of Peter Shiltron, which is a totally different spelling and slightly irrelevant. The very luminary British goalkeeper.

Calum Byers: 4:38

You probably were a Shiltron being a spear formation used in Atlanticburn. So you had all these highlanders with a 20 foot long wooden pikes and that's a Shiltron. So that's what a Shiltron is I like that.

Chris Grimes: 4:52

So in coaching, sometimes about nudging, but what you're doing is poking them with a spike.

Calum Byers: 4:57

This is part of the issue because I started off the strategy consulting and Shiltron was sort of simple principles, rigorously applied, which was the kind of the idea of a Shiltron, but in coaching it's not necessarily a particularly applicable name. So I've got the name. I like the sound of it, but I might have called it something slightly differently. You know if it ended up what I ended up, but I do get lots of searches from history buffs so looking for the battle of Atlanticburn and end up with a coach instead.

Chris Grimes: 5:26

That's such a brilliant cut and thrust. And see what I'm doing there, poking you with your own spike there where people are researching the battle of Bunnock butting. And then I didn't find that, but I found a coach. I think that's weaving your magic right there. That's fantastic. So yes, Shiltron Associates sounds much more thought through than you initially said. It's not just I like the sound of it.

Calum Byers: 5:47

There was something to it. There was something to it as well, but it really was that word Shiltron, and there's a Scottish element to it and there's a strong Scottish theme. I think through what I'm trying to do here.

Chris Grimes: 5:58

And you've returned to your motherland or fatherland because I know you went native, you went Farrell and went to Australia.

Calum Byers: 6:03

I went to university here in Edinburgh and I lived about a few hundred yards of what I'm living now. So we've been full circle. So we lived in Australia, we lived in London, we lived in Oxford, we've been all over the place. But we decided to come back up to Scotland and settle here and that was a two, three. We moved in the middle of the pandemic, which was not the smartest thing that we've done, but we got here and very happy living here in Edinburgh.

Chris Grimes: 6:26

So you have returned home. I like that.

Calum Byers: 6:30

You start off one place, you go full circle and you come back to it.

Chris Grimes: 6:33

And you went as far away as possible, because I know you went to Australia. We lived in Australia for three years.

Calum Byers: 6:37

So actually we had a place on the beach in Sydney which was tremendous. I really really enjoyed that. But it kind of spoils beaches for you going forward because you've had such a lovely experience, incomparably beautiful. It was a lovely part of the world, but it is nice necessary to come back home essentially.

Chris Grimes: 6:53

And I remember reading and researching and enjoying doing that. You're an engineer by training and background, but then 2014 was when you began to tilt into the coaching space instead.

Calum Byers: 7:03

Yeah, so I started as an engineer and joined BT, work for them in the consulting side. I went back, did an MBA in international business and then they sent me out to Australia. So I actually spent several years working for British Telecom in Australia which is a very complicated story and then came back, moved back to Scotland, worked with a startup for a while, worked for Nordtel, the Canadian telecoms business, for many years, moved down to Oxford, moved to London and then I joined the private equity owned wireless company and I was the chief operating officer in the UK MD there and then I decided I had enough of corporate life, I wanted to do something different.

Chris Grimes: 7:40

So presumably the cross section of people that you do coach because you've risen yourself to board level before you do everything from board level down in a small SME.

Calum Byers: 7:48

It's very wide. One of the things people tell you is to focus and to specialise, and I'm not very good at that, I was like. So it does tend to be very wide and very interesting because you can often get such contrasts and people that start with career and people end the career, and a lot of the coaching informs other coaching, perhaps in terms of patterns you can see.

Chris Grimes: 8:08

So let's get you on the open road, then, of curating you through the particular construct of the Good Listening to Show there's going to be a clearing, which is a serious happy place. If you're choosing, then there's going to be a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. There'll be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton and a cake. So it's absolutely all to play for. And through that we will get the story behind, the story of Callum Buyer's executive coach and team facilitator. So what is? Where is a clearing for Callum Buyer's? Where do you go to get clutter-free, inspirational and able to think?

Calum Byers: 8:48

So I think, the safe space and I'm interested in your use of a tree several times, Chris, because that's also where I would start under a tree. So I'm sitting under a tree, in the shade of this particular tree, and what I can see in front of me is a gentle slope down to a beach. So it's a sandy beach, clear water, and behind that, in the distance, there are some mountains. So I've got it all I've got the tree, I've got the slope, I've got the beach and I've got the mountains in the distance. And I'm sitting under the tree and, because there's only a very, very gentle breeze, I'm smoking my pipe and I am totally chilled because I've got this comfort of bath favourite tobacco in my pipe watching the sun dance on the water. Maybe the west coast of Scotland, somewhere, except there are no midges, so that maybe isn't the west coast of Scotland, or maybe the pipe smoke's keeping away, I don't know, but there's certainly no midges in my safe space.

Chris Grimes: 9:40

So you're not sitting there smoking your pipe with a midge net over your head.

Calum Byers: 9:43

No, and the pipe smoke is actually fairly effective at keeping some midges away, but you end up asphyxiating before the midges get to you sometimes.

Chris Grimes: 9:52

I love the sumptuousness of the description of your serious happy place has all those components, so this sounds like a metaphorical scape rather than look at me outside my window and there it all is. So your tree isn't an actual tree in your garden by the sound of it, is it?

Calum Byers: 10:06

No, no, it's a composite of several different trees, perhaps in terms of what's there, but there's a lot of symbolism to do with the tree, Absolutely.

Chris Grimes: 10:13

And, by the way, you're my first ever guest who's interpreted the construct in that way, to make it a conflagration of different metaphors that help you find your sense of flow.

Calum Byers: 10:25

Yeah, and I think that that theme may come back as we go through the session. The concept of trees is quite important.

Chris Grimes: 10:32

And are you to this day? Are you obviously are a pipe smoker, because you've mentioned that as being one of your sort of, I suppose, guilty pleasures, but happy pleasures.

Calum Byers: 10:39

Absolutely. Yeah, not too often, but I find it incredibly relaxing. Really, I've smoked for 30, 40 years, so even though I was a very young pipe smoker I mean not in my teens or anything but I still have stopped and I've gone back to it and I've tried very hard not to do it too often because I know it's not terribly good for me. But I think in terms of just relaxing and just getting completely chilled, it's very effective.

Chris Grimes: 11:03

Sounds very sort of Gandalf-y Lord of the Rings as well, this idea of this big pipe that takes you as the journeyman through your life.

Calum Byers: 11:10

It's not a terribly big pipe, but it certainly. You know, I've got two or three different ones for different times and so on, but I find that it actually probably costs you about as much in matches as it does in tobacco, but it does tend to go out.

Chris Grimes: 11:22

And do you have a favourite tobacco as well, if you're being really at peace?

Calum Byers: 11:25

I did have a favourite tobacco I think called Comfort of Bath. That used to get in this little tobacco in Oxford when we lived there and you could, they would send it to me as well. But I haven't been able to find that over the last couple of years, so I'm just trying a few different ones at the moment.

Chris Grimes: 11:37

So, if I may, I know you're already under a tree, so I'm going to arrive with a new tree or I can shimmy up your tree, but as long as there's some apples in there where we can shake them out. And we're going to shake out some storytelling apples. I've got a couple of comedy props to whip out at various points. So it's a bit like how do you like these apples? And so now I'm going to crunch along on the construct of 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Chris Grimes: 11:57

We've had five minutes at Calambias to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, and then two things that never failed to grab your attention. Borrow from the film up. That's going to be a bit, oh squirrels, you know what never fails to grab your attention, irrespective of anything else that's going on for you in your hectic life, no doubt. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you that we couldn't possibly know until you tell us. So over to you. Pipe between your chops to interpret that as you see fit, and puff along on your pipe as you interpret it.

Chris Grimes: 12:29

So four things that influenced me and clearly four things that have shaped sorry, not that shaped me and the first is second.

Calum Byers: 12:36

Okay, so so interesting. I interpreted that as four things that have influenced me and then three things that inspired me. So, yes, it comes to the same thing forgive my correction.

Chris Grimes: 12:45

Keep your on fire, keep going.

Calum Byers: 12:48

The first thing was about I was born in Africa. So even though my parents are from Scotland and I've lived in Scotland, that's really where my home is I actually was born in Ghana, west Africa, and I grew up there. For the first 11 years in my life my parents were missionaries, so we lived out in the Boondocks absolute middle of nowhere, can I imagine. There was only white people from miles around, and I think what that's done is given me a very different perspective on there are many different ways people can see the world and people's lives can be very, very different. It's not just the world that we're living at the moment, but I wonder also, this made me a little of an outsider sometimes feeling that observing things, being a little bit outside things, and just because it came from a very, very different background in terms of what was there, so that, I think, was quite a formative influence.

Chris Grimes: 13:37

By the way, that so informs the notion of being an outlier or an observer when one is a coach, because you're outside looking in and therefore we have this super objective perspective.

Calum Byers: 13:47

I think that overlaps a little bit and I can be very detached, perhaps too detached sometimes, and I have to be aware of that, but it does mean that you are able to see things from many different perspectives.

Chris Grimes: 13:59

I'm also noticing you have a great sense of calm and poise about you. I'm not just being nice to you, but I'm noticing that in terms of you being the listener.

Calum Byers: 14:09

It's partly me, it's partly the armchair.

Chris Grimes: 14:12

It's the right chair. I mean, getting the right environment is a really important thing. It's a big part of that, isn't it?

Calum Byers: 14:18

That's right. That's the first thing. Growing up as a kid in Africa, one thing that also came out of that was that we used to have a long nap every afternoon and I used to read constantly. The library of Anne would come around with 50 books, of which about 40 were for me and about 10 were for the rest of the family, and I've carried on that love of reading through the rest of my life.

Calum Byers: 14:39

I think the second thing relating to this little bit was that I mentioned that my parents were missionaries. So clearly, as missionaries they were very strong religious background and they both went on. My father became a minister, he was a minister, my mother became a minister, so both sides of the family, both grandfathers were ministers. So a very strong tradition and I broke away from that tradition. So I'm not religious, I didn't follow that and I think my parents had a lot of the answers and to some extent I have the questions. Wow, the question.

Calum Byers: 15:09

And I still realize that my big underlying bribe is this curiosity about what's really going on here, what is really happening in the world, and recognizing that lack of certainty about the answers. So again, this overlaps into physics, into philosophy, into the external world, but also very curious about our own internal worlds. How do we make sense of things? Is God within us, in terms of how we see things, or is it external? Or lots and lots of these questions. So I think what that's given me is this sense of curiosity, because they had a lot of answers. I felt these weren't the answers for me, so I'm still looking for some answers for them. Are you an only child reading between the lines there.

Chris Grimes: 15:55

I'm the oldest of four. I'm not sure why I made that assumption, but because of you just described, I just thought of you in Africa. But actually it was you and four other siblings.

Calum Byers: 16:05

I was the oldest, but I said two brothers and a sister. So that was the second thing, I think. And just to ask have they ended up being religious, yes or no?

Chris Grimes: 16:13

One of them has. One of them has.

Calum Byers: 16:17

My sisters, my two brothers are not particularly religious, which is interesting sometimes, where I say you know came. And yet my aunt's uncles are not particularly religious either. Different people within the family.

Chris Grimes: 16:29

You described such a multi-generational lineage of faith in ministry.

Calum Byers: 16:35

It was generation after generation on the father's side, generation after generation.

Calum Byers: 16:38

And on the other side, two generations. Yes, great answer. The third thing we touched on this right at the start, I guess was my corporate career. I spent more than half my life in corporate roles and I really, really enjoyed it and learned an awful lot, to guess, about different functional areas. So I started off in sales, started consulting effectively, moved into sales, moving the product management, moved into field operations, moving sales operations, business strategy across the board.

Calum Byers: 17:11

So again, it's this lack of focus, perhaps that there was this good old bread in terms of what was that? Work for large multinationals, work for startups, work for private equity on businesses. And one of the things I guess that came out of that was recognizing that, at the end of the day, it's about the people. You can only know so much functionally, but it's about can you inspire people, can you lead people, Because it's up to them effectively to get the things done? You know, at the end of the day, as a leader, you're setting the direction and you're trying to create that vision and inspiring people, but unless you can bring the people with you, it's not going to happen. So that was, I guess, the third thing. And then the fourth thing was where that all came to an end in a sense, and I'd had that 30, 35 years in corporate and I almost, I guess I hit a wall to some extent and I realized that you know what, I'm not sure I want to keep doing this.

Calum Byers: 18:06

And I had a really helpful conversation with a guy. First I had any coaching. This guy was a coach and he said what is it you're afraid of? And I realized that what I was afraid of was losing the job. And the reason I was afraid of losing the job was because it was my identity. If you cut a slice through me, I would say chief operating officer or UK MD or whatever. I had so defined myself in terms of my corporate role. So I thought, okay, this is not good enough.

Calum Byers: 18:33

So I promptly quit my job and tried to do something else. And what I was also interested in was this idea of being Mr Corporate and floated up through the hierarchy. I've had some pretty senior positions, but I always wondered could I make it on my own? Could I eat what I killed, as it were? So I went to a small business and I did some work doing strategy consulting for a while and market entry strategies and stuff like that. I realized I still wasn't doing what I wanted to do, and then I realized what I was really motivated by was people working with people big teams, small teams and potentially using some of what I'd learned to help other people, and recognizing that I had a few challenges in the latter parts of my career. I could really have done with some help, I could have done with some coaching, but there was nobody there for me. So I think, also, going back and helping myself five years earlier, what could I have done differently? Perhaps we maybe solve some of my own issues in terms of what had happened.

Chris Grimes: 19:31

And I love, by the way, sorry to interrupt you the currency of curiosity all pervading all of those elements and the power of coaching in the depth charge of the one question what are you most afraid of?

Calum Byers: 19:44

Exactly, exactly. There were one question at the right time that just triggered the whole thought process, the whole kind of bunch of stuff on there. So it's a really based on all that, I ended up saying, well, why don't I become a coach? I went trained in the coach, in the masters, in coaching, all that and the rest is history, and that was 2014 in your timeline.

Calum Byers: 20:04

That's right, that's right. So I started the company in 2014. I started really getting into the coaching about two, three years later, so I've now been working as a coach for about six or seven years.

Chris Grimes: 20:15

And I actually quite like the fact you didn't just call yourself Callum Buyer's Associate. You went for Shiltern because of the we've already talked about the, the lovely, the pike, as opposed to the nudging of coaching, wonderful, so that's great for shape. Edges or, as you interpreted, things that have influenced you, sorry, inspired you. So now, three things. I've confused myself. Now it's four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you now.

Calum Byers: 20:39

So I think many things have inspired me. I mean people have read. You know, carl Rogers is really inspiring from a coaching perspective, franco from kind of purpose and so on.

Chris Grimes: 20:49

Just say those two authors again sorry, it was a bit Carl Rogers.

Calum Byers: 20:53

Carl Rogers, victor Franco people like that have really helped me on my journey. But I think, if I really step back and say people that have inspired me much closer to home, there are particular examples within my own family that I found really inspiring and a couple of little stories. My son was really into growing and he eventually made it into the first date at school. So this is a big deal. He was in the first date and I still remember when we were with him one day and he got phone calls that he'd been dropped from the first date and now he was in the second date and he picked himself up and what he did was he went out and he bought a whole bunch of socks the second date socks for the team. So the second date created this sort of entity of themselves represented by these socks, and started to build this incredibly strong sense of teamship that they started to beat the first date.

Calum Byers: 21:45

Wow, but a bit embarrassing from the school. So they asked if you'd be prepared to move back into the first date. He said nope, I'm really happy. We're here for the second date. We're going to make it happen. So I took a real lesson from that in terms of picking yourself up, making the best of it and then creating a sense of a team around something as simple as these ridiculous and obviously loud socks. The comedian of me is presumably you gave your son.

Chris Grimes: 22:08

Go on, son, sock it to him by being in the second team.

Calum Byers: 22:12

Well, I mean to be honest. We said, look, we're here for you, We'll support you. But this was his initiative, this wasn't a leg. He went off and just did this himself and really built that on the back of this, creating a team spirit. So I thought that was very powerful.

Chris Grimes: 22:28

So that was one thing. Did he ever get promoted back up to the first team, or he didn't need to bother?

Calum Byers: 22:32

He rode for them occasionally, but no, he was quite happy being in the second day because the second day was a very good second day.

Chris Grimes: 22:37

It sounds like it was Fantastic, so that was actually my team thing.

Calum Byers: 22:41

And then my daughter very different to my son in lots of ways, but she's always had this really clear purpose in terms of what she wants to do. So she went off and she studied in France, lived in France. The side is she wanted to move to Paris on her own At a very young age. She went and just built a life for herself in Paris and she's now doing a PhD and she's already got herself an agent for a book deal. She's got a book deal in place already. She hasn't finished her PhD yet, but she's working on her first book and her second book and that was what she always wanted and she's just gone out and made it happen. So I think that, in terms of having a purpose and making it happen to me, I found that very inspiring.

Chris Grimes: 23:18

And both your children have made things happen. You know that lovely coaching idea that the difference in life between what you want and what you get is what you do, so it's the action towards.

Calum Byers: 23:27

They've done so brilliantly themselves, and I think they've done it in the sense that maybe my son lives in Barcelona, he's decided that's where he wants to live and he's got a place near the beach, barcelona, whatever.

Calum Byers: 23:35

So I think that's also we can do is possible, seeing the possibilities and living your life the way you want to do is just tremendous. Which then fits onto the third one, which is actually my wife, and she started as a nurse and a midwife. So you did that. When I first met her, she was a midwife and then she went back and did a degree in English literature and then she did half a degree in Egyptology at Oxford and then she did another degree in creative writing and then she trains a commercial pilot and then she did flying structuring, aerobatic contents, all sorts of things, and now she's just about and she's the same age I am mostly and she's just starting a new program at Edinburgh University. So there's this idea of just grabbing things and trying them and making it work and getting the best out of it and then moving on and doing something else. And again this idea of possibility why not try it?

Chris Grimes: 24:27

I'd like to award your family with the moniker of the Unstoppable's. No extra charge. You're welcome, that's all fine. Thank you very much. Brilliant inspirings there as well. Now we're on to two things that never fail to. Oh squirrels, and I've actually got a comedy squirrel, should you wish to see it. Oh squirrels, you know what never fails to if you've seen the film up. Have you seen the film up? So you know what I'm talking about yes, yes.

Chris Grimes: 24:50

So that's the dog that's going, oh squirrels. So what are your monsters of distraction, what never fails to grab your attention?

Calum Byers: 24:56

So again, it's probably a couple of things that would jump to mind. The first one is books. I'm always distracted by books and it was about the book. We keep walking past bookshops, going to a bookshop, and we'll end up walking out with three or four books, despite the fact that we've got all these rules that say we shouldn't be buying any more books. So I love books and often they're not coaching books. I've got quite a lot of coaching books, but I find that I actually learn as much as relevant on history, philosophy, novels. Sometimes you can learn an awful lot about life from books, as well as the actual real life you meet when you talk to people. So I just love the idea of books and reading, and you can see around me there's books everywhere. My wife is the same. Our house is full of books, lots of every room has got books and good cases and stuff like that, and there's something comforting about having. I've got a Kindle, but I never use it. I just like physical books.

Calum Byers: 25:44

Yes so that's often a distraction. There's another book we should go on. This is by that one.

Chris Grimes: 25:49

And going back a bit, when you said the library bus, you used to deliver about 40 books for you and 10 for the others. Were they books that you would order and then they deliver them, or is it just a random bus with random books in it?

Calum Byers: 25:59

This was in Africa at the time. So it would come from God and it was a couple hundred miles away and then come up and it was because they only turned up once every six weeks. You could take quite a lot of books out and I would just read voraciously, whatever it was there, so you just empty the back of the van.

Chris Grimes: 26:13

They'd have nothing left for the next stop.

Calum Byers: 26:14

And then just do that. I think that habit has stayed with me for a long time. Yes, lovely. So I think it's the first thing. This is the second thing. Maybe it's back to this tree thing a little bit, but nature I find very distracting. So when I go out for a walk somewhere, I'm always seeing something. There's the light on the water, or I love the idea of light shining through trees, with a river of the snide it and things like that, and it's interesting because I like the concept of walking coach and walking with someone and talk. But I suspect it wouldn't work very well for me because I'd be so distracted by what I'm seeing in nature as I walk fast I might not get my full focus, but I find that when I'm out for a walk I often get caught by seeing something in a particular combination of light and shade or colors or whatever.

Chris Grimes: 26:58

And of course, the topography whilst one is walking is very helpful for coaching. In any case and you'll be familiar with that nature quote the best ideas happen outdoors and just walking towards is always so helpful.

Calum Byers: 27:09

And maybe also just sharing what I've seen and what are they seeing, and so there's definitely a potential to use that in some way. But I say it could be a bit distracting.

Chris Grimes: 27:19

Great squirrels of distraction. Love that. And now a quirky or unusual fact about you, callum Buyers. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

Calum Byers: 27:27

I don't know how quirky it is particularly, but it is just. I do the crossword every day, so I really enjoy crosswords. That's my relaxation is. When I finished up a whole bunch of coaching sessions, lots of interaction, people, I just moved to my other armchair across the other side, put my feet up and do the crossword.

Chris Grimes: 27:42

After you. You don't do your crossword in the same chair. You cross the room to go to the other one, absolutely.

Calum Byers: 27:47

I would not do a crossword in this chair. This is my chair, that I sit in for coaching. That's my chair. I sit in for doing crosswords or smoking my bike, your wife really thought In physical chair. They're just two separate ones.

Chris Grimes: 27:57

But your wife really thought that through in getting you two chairs. I love that. It's twice the value.

Calum Byers: 28:01

Well, she got me one. I liked it so much, I went and got the second one.

Chris Grimes: 28:03

But yes, and are you good at cryptic crosswords as well, then? So you're talking about these are cryptic crosswords.

Calum Byers: 28:09

I only do cryptic crosswords and I'm getting, I'm getting better. I've been doing them for 12 years now and I still don't always finish them. So it's one of these things. It's a lifetimes and that's part of the thing. You can get better at that. You never get to the stage where you can do that.

Chris Grimes: 28:24

And good for the gray matter always, aren't they?

Calum Byers: 28:26

The idea of trying to solve and so I hope so, and sometimes I get older I keep checking and there's a brain still function. There's a brain still function, perhaps. But maybe there's also something there about exercising a little bit, but it's just a way of relaxing. It's a different thing, and I suspect that I'm probably slightly more introvert than I expected and I just find, with lots of international people, I need that time at the end of the day where I'm just focusing something outside of people.

Chris Grimes: 28:53

Wow, great answer. We've shaken your tree, hurrah. Now we stay in the clearing, we move away from the tree and next we talk about alchemy and gold. So when you're at purpose and in flow, callum, what are you absolutely happiest doing and what you're here to reveal to the world?

Calum Byers: 29:12

So I think that sometimes only sometimes there are coaching sessions where you just get on that right wavelength and something happens.

Calum Byers: 29:27

And often there's a silence and you can see somebody thinking, you can feel them thinking, and there's an insight, there's a realization, there's something comes up and it's such a great feeling because it's like, in a sense and I was not telling you the analogy it's like being a midwife you've helped something be born. In a sense, they've done the work, they've actually created it. It's their idea that made it happen, but you've facilitated the creation of something that might well be life changing. And sometimes there is that kind of weird sensation that you get so in flow that the world, the room, collapses in and around you almost that all you can see is that connection with the other person as they think and as they make it happen. And then you gradually come back out of that and you feel you've actually gone quite deeply into something and something has been created out of the back of that. So for me that doesn't always happen I mean, often it's a lot more prosaic of that but it can sometimes happen like that.

Chris Grimes: 30:25

And when was the last time you found yourself in that sort of bliss state, if you like.

Calum Byers: 30:30

Probably a week or so ago. I mean, there are a couple of sessions where that's come up and there's been this really huge insight from somebody and you think, okay, I've helped, that's made a difference and they've really went okay, wow, that's interesting.

Chris Grimes: 30:44

I really enjoyed the midwifery of coaching that you stumbled onto there.

Calum Byers: 30:51

I think there's quite a good thing about analogy because it works at multiple levels, in the sense that it's the client that's doing the work. I mean, it's their idea, it's their concept. There's a challenge for them to help the baby be born, but the midwife provides a structure, provides a framework, and the midwife's been there before so many times, so there's also a level of reassurance perhaps that this will happen, will get there, don't worry, as an element of holding somebody's hand, perhaps metaphorically, as they go through that process and the midwife, as I said, has seen it before. They know what to do. If this isn't working, they can try something else. They can try things. I think it's a very reassuring presence at some point, but it's very clear that the midwife's not taking ownership.

Chris Grimes: 31:37

You've really reminded me about that that there was an ancient director that I had once upon a time called Nat Brenner, who was Petro Tull's mentor, and he used to direct, partly based on fear, but he would always say really powerful stuff that you'd never forget. And one of the things linked to midwifery was he would bark at you when you'd done a show and you'd go, chris, and you'd go who and he said it with another chat luckily I wasn't in the limelight went Richard, and we went oh God, it's not me. Good, richard stepped forward and, linked to midwifery, nat Brenner said very embryonic performance Give birth, would you love? And then he moved on to the next actor and I've never forgotten thanking you, grateful that it wasn't at me, but give birth would you love, is the idea of you've done all this work, now just commit, which sometimes in coaching is about nudging you into that place where you're linked to the midwife, linked to that adage. You can just decide to commit to what your inner genius knows it should do.

Calum Byers: 32:35

I think you're onto something like this because one of the really interesting models from coaching is the three things awareness, acceptance and then action. A lot of coaching is about helping to raise awareness. What is it you want to do? What is it you think would be helpful? Where is it we're going? What would be useful? What is the key step? Is the acceptance. Do you really want to do this? It's easy to say that, but are you really going to take on the implication of what will happen and helping somebody through that acceptance and then moving to the actual action switch? So, as backed as you say is that, are you actually committed to this?

Chris Grimes: 33:17

Lovely. So next we're going to award you with a cake, please. Here it is. First of all we'll talk about do you like cake, callum? First of all, I do, yes, and what cake, metaphorically, would you like?

Calum Byers: 33:31

It would probably be a carrot cake.

Chris Grimes: 33:33

I think A carrot cake with a nice little bit of cream and chocolate You'll like this then I think it's sort of story is it's a bit of a dog's toy, I think. But I found it in the shop, thought that's a cake that I need. It's a cherry on the cake that I'm about to put on for this storytelling metaphor. Probably not made out of rubber, I suspect. It's actually fan-bricky, it doesn't squeak, but think of dog's toy. And then this is my carrot cake with the cherry on top. So, yes, a carrot cake is yours. And now, as a final suffused storytelling metaphor, you get to put the cherry on the cake now with stuff like what's a favourite inspirational quote, callum, that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future.

Calum Byers: 34:13

So I was thinking about two or three different ones here, chris, but the one I think that probably resonates most is one that says that the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is today, and I think that says several things. I think it's recognising that people do regret they should have done something. Sometimes they're looking back and saying, yep, I should have planted that tree, but then also recognising it's never too late. You can always do it, and maybe it won't grow to that same size, but certainly it's well worth doing that today, lovely.

Chris Grimes: 34:48

And because that was so good, you're very welcome to prize in a couple more quotes if they are there.

Calum Byers: 34:54

Well, the second one I was thinking about, which is a similar theme, I think of a CS Lewis that said it, and he says you can't go back and change the past, but you can start today to change the future. So, again, a similar idea, recognising that are things and that's a big part of this that are things you could have done differently, and that doesn't stop you from actually making that change going forward.

Chris Grimes: 35:19

Very glad I asked you for a second one. Now, no pressure, do you have a third one? They're so good, you can do three.

Calum Byers: 35:26

There was one of those things you're using in terms of the legacy piece and there's something along the lines of again it's a theme of trees again, and it's the meaning of life is to plant trees, that you have no expectation of living in the shade.

Chris Grimes: 35:48

Lovely. What notes, help or advice might you offer to a younger version of Calum Byers?

Calum Byers: 35:56

So I think the first one is to spend more time with your family, and I think that when I was younger when I was travelling constantly.

Calum Byers: 36:06

I was across the Atlantic so many times. I was always away from home, working, working, whatever and you had a young family that grew up and all the rest of them kids grew up really quickly. Yes, and I think that is one of the things that I regret looking back, was I didn't spend more time and I can remember times I've missed the birthday or times I've missed the thing. I can't remember the business reason for doing it, but at the time there was some really important business reason. But now, whatever you know, 35, 40 years later, you look back in the Atlantic. It's very different the way that you see things. So I think that would certainly be one.

Calum Byers: 36:40

I think the second thing is I have a habit of winging it. What I certainly did out of a very gung-ho in my corporate career lots of times my motto was never let ignorance cramp your style. It isn't entirely helpful all of the time. So I think another thing that says like try not to wing it, even if you're convincing, you're capable, you're smart, you can get away with a lot, but try and make sure that you understand what is really going on, because you can get away with it, winging it, but not all the time.

Chris Grimes: 37:10

Yes, Lovely, just allowing a deliberate bit of silence there. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given, would you say? I don't know, that's a really interesting one.

Calum Byers: 37:31

I think, from running my business, the best piece of advice I was given was to be reassuring the expensive, which is more of a commercial piece of advice as opposed to anything else. But I think it's, rather than spoken words, it was more advice by example, and again I saw that with my parents in terms of their example, their dedication. I saw that a little bit in my mother who had multiple careers doing things like that. So I think I derive advice from example as much as advice from the words.

Chris Grimes: 38:10

Wonderful. We're now ramping up shortly to a bit of Shakespeare to talk about legacy. Just before we get there, though, there is this moment which is called past the Golden Baton, please. So you may or may not have a specific answer, but this is to invite you to pass the golden thread of the storytelling along to someone in your network who you think would most enjoy, appreciate or being given a good listening to in this way. So somebody may or may not occur, but is there anyone at this moment you'd like to pass the Golden Baton on to?

Calum Byers: 38:39

Probably. I can think of two or three possibles, but probably not a specific person. So let me reach out if you see what they think and come back to you now.

Chris Grimes: 38:48

Wonderful. And now oh clang of mid-baton. By the way, the moment I thought about passing the Golden Baton as a construct, I had Roger Black in my clearing the very next day, and he only won silver in the Olympics, if you remember. And I was able to pass the Golden Baton on to Roger Black. He appreciated it or he laughed at the time. I don't know whether he's still happy or bitter about that post then. So here we go, the complete works of Shakespeare. Now you don't have to recite any Shakespeare. This is borrowing from the Seven Ages of Man's Speech in, as you Like it, all the Worlds Are Staged, at All the Bettered Women Barely Players. So, when all is said and done, calambia's children associates, how would you most like to be remembered?

Calum Byers: 39:30

I think, as someone who was interested in life, who was curious and who inspired others to reach their potential. So I think I finally, after all these years, discovered that really is my purpose, I think to help others to reach their potential. So I hope that's how other people see it as well, and I think the other dimension to that is having been a good husband, good father and hopefully, a good friend.

Chris Grimes: 40:01

All lovely qualities and I'm certain that that legacy is in the bag for you already. Where can we find out all about Calambia's and children? Associates on the old Hinterweb, please Okay.

Calum Byers: 40:14

So childrenassociatescom and you try a few different spellings, you'll get there. There aren't many children associatescoms out there and that basically sets out basically a bit about my background, a little bit about the experience, the kind of coaching experience, the kind of coaching that I've done, and identifies a number of different areas that might be of interest. There's also a whole resources area within there with a whole bunch of recommended books that people are interested in, different topics, and some areas that I'm interested in, like emotional intelligence and purpose and questions and so on. So that would be a good place to start. Have a look at the website. Lots of contact details there, easy to find. I'm Calum at childrenassociatescom, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm not on Twitter, I'm not on Facebook, I'm not on any of these other ones, so I haven't quite got the hang of social media, to be honest. So LinkedIn as far as I go. So that's where you can find me.

Calum Byers: 41:08

In terms of, what I guess may be interesting is if people are looking for someone to go on that journey with them, there's some transition, perhaps in their corporate role. There's some transition in their lives in terms of they're coming to the end of a career. They're looking at a completely different way of looking at things, or maybe they're looking for something a bit deeper about finding that purpose in their life. And I've happily come along on the journey with them, you know, in the spirit of a companion on the journey, to help be a thinking partner, perhaps to help structure their thought process, to help provide different perspectives, perhaps challenge them a little bit, depending where they want to be challenged on. You know how rigorously are they thinking about this. So these are maybe some of the areas that I might be able to help, but please get in touch and we'll explore it.

Chris Grimes: 42:02

Calum, the curious buyers is what I've got from you. It's such a lovely disposition of what you do, fantastic. So as this has been your moment in the clearing of the Good Listening, two Shows stories of distinction genius. Is there anything else you'd like to say, calum?

Calum Byers: 42:18

I think this has been really interesting. Firstly, thank you for the opportunity. This has been really interesting. One of the things I was wondering about is whether I should and this is about the commitment thing I have for years now been wanting to write a book. I want to get a book out there and I think by making a sort of public commitment to I'm going to write a book. Maybe that also has me with some accountability, so I just need to get on with it as much as anything.

Chris Grimes: 42:43

So you're looking at the law of social proof by saying it out loud, you're more likely to do it.

Calum Byers: 42:48

So that's what I'm hoping. That's what I'm hoping because I just need that little bit of a kick to make it maybe any of the courts perhaps, but just to make something happen with that. So I'm very interested in writing a book and probably around purpose and how people make sense of the world and how they find their purpose in life, and just maybe drawing and some of the kind of coaching conversations, but also drawing and some of the kind of the reading and so on around that and my own journey perhaps. So maybe that's something just to put it out there that I would like to write a book.

Chris Grimes: 43:17

And thank you for sharing here on LinkedIn today as a live exclusive that Callum has now committed that he will write a book about purpose and direction, and have you got any titles in mind?

Calum Byers: 43:29

I'm quite well on that part, yet.

Chris Grimes: 43:32

By the way, the resources on your website are a delight. I found the most wonderful picture of an owl, which actually nudged me along in some thinking I was going to do for my own post, actually. And then you've also got a really interesting quirky thing about emotional intelligence a bunch of eggs in a box with faces on them, which is a very interesting way to get into, because they've all got different facial expressions than naturally.

Calum Byers: 43:52

And I can't claim credit for these pictures. I mean I found them on the internet, in terms of there, but I thought they were very representative of the concept I was trying to get across.

Chris Grimes: 44:01

So, callum, thank you so much for being here. Just to say, if you've been watching on LinkedIn, thanks very much indeed for doing that. If you, too, would like to be interested and have a conversation about being my guest, have a look at thegoodlisteningtoshowcom. There are a number of series strands and, by the way, please do come back, because when you've written your book, callum, there is a good books series strand too. Excellent. By being in the show, you're not only doing it as a LinkedIn live, but obviously I pull you into the UK health radio space as well, which is across broadcast across 54 countries with an audience reach and 1.3 million and growing. So, thank you very much indeed, callum. It's been a delight.

Calum Byers: 44:37

Thank you, Bruce.

Chris Grimes: 44:38

I really enjoyed talking to you, and is there anything else you'd like to say at this point? No, thank you.

Calum Byers: 44:45

And thank you for all the references to trees. I think we've got that in common, perhaps.

Chris Grimes: 44:48

We certainly have, and I sincerely look forward to meeting you someday as well. I'd love to sit opposite you in the other chair. I've got a chair waiting for you Wonderful. I really look forward to meeting you at some point. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening. I think, chris Grimes, this has been Callum Buyers and goodnight. You've been listening to the Good Listening 2 show here on UK Health Radio with me, chris Grimes. Oh, it's my son. If you've enjoyed the show, then please do tune in next week to listen to more stories from the Clearing. If you'd like to connect with me on LinkedIn, then please do so. There's also a dedicated Facebook group for the show too. You can contact me about the program or, if you'd be interested in experiencing some personal impact coaching with me, carry my level up your impact program. That's chrisatsecondcurveuk On Twitter and Instagram. It's At that, chris Grimes. So until next time for me, chris Grimes from UK Health Radio. I'm from Stan. To your good health and goodbye.