I first saw Eddie Marsan in "Puss in Boots" in Chipping Norton in a Christmas Show circa 1990 (in a period of an acting career that many Actors often describe as being their 'wilderness years!') and then more recently I saw him again in a "BAFTA Retrospective" of his extraordinary career to date, hosted by renowned journalist & broadcaster, Miranda Sawyer. Funnily enough, Chipping Norton & "Puss in Boots" didn't actually come up during the BAFTA retrospective but suffice it to say, many of his subsequent TV & film 'Absolute Bangers' certainly did!
Eddie Marsan is a real coup for "The Good Listening To Show". He is a personal hero of mine - a wonderful, wise, enigmatic & generous actor indeed who I always very much look forward to watching.
This is a great conversation suffused with much wisdom and many top-tips for aspiring Actors on topics such as how to better manage and overcome rejection (which very definitely comes with the territory of the job) with a sense of calm, resilience, objectivity & perspective. And also he reveals his "never more than 2 weeks apart" formula for surviving a long and happy marriage, with his family positioned front-and-centre in everything that he does. Eddie also richly credits, as he did during the BAFTA Retrospective, his Acting Teacher of old, John Osborne Hughes, founder of The Spiritual Psychology of Acting.
The conversation also takes a philosophical turn as we dissect the 'Power of Paradox', a concept inspired by Lao Tzu's "Daodiching" and musings of a Swedish philosopher.
Eddie shares his thoughts on societal binaryism, delves into the impact of acting legends like Philip Seymour Hoffman and Toby Jones on his own craft as an actor, and discusses Neil Kinnock's stirring speech at the Labour Party Conference in 1985.
This thought-provoking discourse is packed with insights that will make you see the world and its paradoxes from a different perspective.
We also step into more personal aspects of Eddie's life, exploring his strong affinity to his working-class roots and how they've influenced his life and career. Eddie talks about his love for Tottenham Football Club and music, and praises the new generation's open-mindedness towards gender and sexuality.
We also touch upon his favourite films, his quirky-fact of a curious but harmless medical condition, and the wisdom & philosophy that he lives by.
Eddie Marsan is best known for portraying intense working-class blokes in both indie and blockbuster films. In a long & varied career to date (and it's not over yet!) Marsan has cemented his reputation as being the British counte
Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.
I first saw Eddie Marsan in "Puss in Boots" in Chipping Norton in a Christmas Show circa 1990 (in a period of an acting career that many Actors often describe as being their 'wilderness years!') and then more recently I saw him again in a "BAFTA Retrospective" of his extraordinary career to date, hosted by renowned journalist & broadcaster, Miranda Sawyer. Funnily enough, Chipping Norton & "Puss in Boots" didn't actually come up during the BAFTA retrospective but suffice it to say, many of his subsequent TV & film 'Absolute Bangers' certainly did!
Eddie Marsan is a real coup for "The Good Listening To Show". He is a personal hero of mine - a wonderful, wise, enigmatic & generous actor indeed who I always very much look forward to watching.
This is a great conversation suffused with much wisdom and many top-tips for aspiring Actors on topics such as how to better manage and overcome rejection (which very definitely comes with the territory of the job) with a sense of calm, resilience, objectivity & perspective. And also he reveals his "never more than 2 weeks apart" formula for surviving a long and happy marriage, with his family positioned front-and-centre in everything that he does. Eddie also richly credits, as he did during the BAFTA Retrospective, his Acting Teacher of old, John Osborne Hughes, founder of The Spiritual Psychology of Acting.
The conversation also takes a philosophical turn as we dissect the 'Power of Paradox', a concept inspired by Lao Tzu's "Daodiching" and musings of a Swedish philosopher.
Eddie shares his thoughts on societal binaryism, delves into the impact of acting legends like Philip Seymour Hoffman and Toby Jones on his own craft as an actor, and discusses Neil Kinnock's stirring speech at the Labour Party Conference in 1985.
This thought-provoking discourse is packed with insights that will make you see the world and its paradoxes from a different perspective.
We also step into more personal aspects of Eddie's life, exploring his strong affinity to his working-class roots and how they've influenced his life and career. Eddie talks about his love for Tottenham Football Club and music, and praises the new generation's open-mindedness towards gender and sexuality.
We also touch upon his favourite films, his quirky-fact of a curious but harmless medical condition, and the wisdom & philosophy that he lives by.
Eddie Marsan is best known for portraying intense working-class blokes in both indie and blockbuster films. In a long & varied career to date (and it's not over yet!) Marsan has cemented his reputation as being the British counte
Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.
Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)
Thanks for listening!
Chris Grimes:
Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, are you sitting comfortably here? Then we shall begin.
Chris Grimes:
Yes, indeed, and welcome to a very, very and particularly, if I may say, exciting day here in the Good Listening To Show the show in which I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influences and also personal heroes to a clearing or serious happy place of their choosing to tell us their story of distinction and genius. And I am indeed blessed, and we are blessed, to have the wonderful, iconic, very idiosyncratic, lovely actor Eddie Marson is in the clearing, kind of speaking from Chiswick you just mentioned Wonderful, just to blow a tiny bit of happy smoke at you. We have certain people in common. I first saw you at Chipping Norton in Puss in Boots. You might describe that as being your wilderness years. I have no idea, but I think that was around about 1990.
Chris Grimes:
I describe it as the pinnacle of my career to be honest, lovely, and my good friend Neil Beck would say exactly the same too. So I definitely knew of you and it's been a wonderful career that I followed. If I can just blow a bit of happy smoke at you, if I may, I really enjoyed researching you. You're best known for playing intense working class blokes. This is what has been written about you in Indian blockbuster films. You've got a plethora, if I think that's the right connective, sorry, collective noun for many a TV and film banger under your belt. What particularly struck me recently was I saw your BAFTA retrospective with Miranda Sawyer and I was really profoundly struck with your generosity to your old acting teacher, john Osborne Hughes, who you invited to that event, and I've spoken to him actually, and he said he was happily surprised too because he sat near the front and then suddenly you almost dedicated the whole thing to him, which was just such a wonderful thing to do.
Eddie Marsan:
Well, he was a major influence both within acting and on a personal level as well. He kind of guided me through a lot of meditation and philosophical changes as well, which kind of underpinned my ability to persevere with my career.
Chris Grimes:
And, if I may, just a final bit of happy smoke. It was such a joy researching you, but Rotten Tomatoes says of you very succinctly that you cemented your reputation as the British counterpart to Paul Guillermatti with your, if I may say, unconventional looks and fearless performances, keeping him perpetually in demand. I just thought that was such a lovely way to sum you up and I hope you took that in the right way in which Rotten Tomatoes mentored I'm sure.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, well, paul's a very good friend of mine. We did a film together about 15, 16 years ago now and we became good friends after that. So I kind of had been, I was inspired by him. I, as an actor you become aware of people, have a similar characteristic to you and you look at the way they create their career and you think, okay, well, I'm going to try and do it like that. So, yes, a compliment.
Chris Grimes:
And you're trebucheting across the Atlantic to stuff like Ray Donovan, where you play Terry for many, many, many seasons and, by the way, rather bizarrely, another connection we have my first ever TV role was in the Piglet files and I think yours was too.
Eddie Marsan:
Yes, it was yeah, yeah, it was fantastic. Yeah, it was that Nicholas Lindhurst.
Chris Grimes:
Yes, it was, and I had a line that I can't well. I can remember the line, but it didn't make any sense. My line was Flop Jack, and both of us neither of us know what that means, but it's all good.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, I think, Nicholas is overdoing Fraser now, isn't he? Yes, yeah, so I'm really pleased for him. I think he's a brilliant comic actor and he was very kind to me. I was only, I only, I think I am. One line, I played a mugger. I was always playing Muggers and he was very kind to me on set and very supportive.
Chris Grimes:
Yeah, yes, and you don't mug anymore because you're a brilliant actor See what I did there. But anyway, it's my absolute joy and pleasure to welcome you to the Good Listening 2 show, where I'm going to curate you through the gates of a clearing a tree, a lovely juicy storytelling exercise called 5-4-3-2-1. There's a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton and a cake, so it's absolutely all to play for, so welcome. Should we get you on the open road then, of that? So first of all, let me just give you a slight, googly unexpected question what's your story of the day? What's currently on your plate, eddie Martin?
Eddie Marsan:
Today my wife and I, we just had a man's session with a script editor and we're taking on all her notes and kind of changing this thing that we're writing together to incorporate her notes. So it's quite an intense three or four days. The kids have just gone back to school and we've got the kitchen to ourselves and we can sit down and work intensely for about three or four days.
Chris Grimes:
I noticed kids in the plural there. How big is the full Marson's squad? I have four kids.
Eddie Marsan:
My daughter is 19. I have a son at 18, son at 15 and son at 13.
Chris Grimes:
Wonderful. So, as you say, back to school, all good. And you finally got the kitchen back to yourself Wonderful, so let's get you going then. So where is what is a clearing or serious happy place for you, actor Eddie Marson? Where do you go to get clutter free, inspirational and able to think?
Eddie Marsan:
I go. I've got this is my office now that I'm talking to you from now and I enjoy coming into my office. I've got lots of books. I have a lot of interest in economics and politics and philosophy as well. I'm a humanist but I'm also interested in meditation, so I have lots of kind of books on Taoism and books on Buddhism and books on humanism. That's my happy place.
Chris Grimes:
Lovely. And that makes complete sense with your connection to John Osborne Hughes, because of course his method is called the spiritual psychology of acting.
Eddie Marsan:
Yes.
Chris Grimes:
You may or may not talk more about that as we go through, but I love the fact that you're in a sort of a philosophical cell, which is your workspace, which is your office. But you also said you you nip out to the kitchen when you're spreading out to do some writing stuff.
Eddie Marsan:
I mean, I love working in the office, but my wife loves to be in the kitchen. She loves it because it's the garden, she loves the natural light, and so whenever I'm working with her work upstairs yeah, Wonderful.
Chris Grimes:
So we're in your philosophical man cave, if I may describe it as that. I love that. And what are you reading at the moment? What's on? What's on your table as we speak?
Eddie Marsan:
I've just finished Well, I'm just finishing John and Jonathan Friedland's book the Escape Artist, which was a story about a man who escaped from Auschwitz, and it's a fantastic book. I can't. I know that someone's adapting it into a film and I can't wait to see it. It's just brilliant. It highlights man's in humanity to man, but it's also an incredible story about somebody's perseverance and the ability to overcome. But also it doesn't make the lead character to be perfect. He's a flawed character and the big question of the story, of the story for me, is whether his thoughts are what enabled him to survive Auschwitz or whether Auschwitz, the experience of Auschwitz, gave him his thoughts, and that's a fascinating psychological conundrum. Yes, that's a hard story for me.
Chris Grimes:
And, interestingly, I once played a character called Maximilian Colbe. That was another extraordinary, sorry, iconic, a Catholic priest who survived through spirituality. A similar experience, wonderful, so just say the title of the book once again.
Eddie Marsan:
The Escape Artist by Jonathan Friedland Lovely.
Chris Grimes:
Great. So now we're going to talk about the five, four, three, two, one. So it's where you've had five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention and that's where the random squirrels is going to come in and then a quirky or unusual fact about you that we can't possibly know about you until you tell us. So over to you, Eddie, to shake the canopy of your tree as you see fit. So how would you like to interpret that exercise?
Eddie Marsan:
Okay, so the, can you say the five?
Chris Grimes:
Sorry, it's five minutes to have thought about four things that have shaped you.
Eddie Marsan:
First of all, Okay, I think this. I think four people have shaped me really. I think when I was younger I was very close to a St Lucian family in Bethnal Green and one of the oldest brothers, alan, was an. I suppose now you would call him a geek, although those days we didn't realise he was geek and to be a geek in the East End was quite rare really. Alan loved to read, he loved graphic novels and he kind of instilled in me a love of reading and an imagination and when I was in my teens and wanted to become an actor, he was fully supportive. He died about three or four years ago now, but he was. He became a writer and he was, like my big brother, a major influence on me. The second person was a major influence on me was a man called Mr Bennett who was an East End bookmaker but he used to run a menswear shop in Bethnal Green and I went to work for him when I was 16, serving an apprenticeship as a printer, and when I decided I wanted to be an actor he paid for me to go to drama school. So he changed my life really. That's the second person I'm going to tomorrow. No, on Wednesday is his wife's 100th birthday Mr Bennett about 15 years ago. So on His wife's birthday is. She's 100 on Wednesday, so we're going to go to her apartment to celebrate that choice. So she would probably be the third person really.
Eddie Marsan:
I think John Osborne Hughes was a big influence on me because my career in acting didn't really start. I didn't come out of the blocks quickly, it was very slow. When your friends saw me at Chippin' Norton I'd already been out of drama school for five years and I think that was my first theatre. Job was to play the clown in Chippin' Norton. So there was lots of rejection and lots of part-time jobs as waiters and laborers and whatever. But I used to study with John. I used to study acting with John, but he also kind of instilled in me an appreciation of philosophy and Eastern philosophy and meditation to help me cope with the disappointment of being rejected. So that kind of enabled me to have a perseverance really.
Eddie Marsan:
And then I think my wife really has changed my life because I have a very happy marriage. I've been married for 22 years now. I have four kids and my parents now have a great marriage. But I have a really good marriage and that's something that I think is one of the cornerstones of my life really. When we finished Ray Donovan and I'd done seven seasons in Ray Donovan and a film which took nine years I came back to London and realised I was still married and I still am, and I thought that was probably the greatest achievement of all really, that me and my wife were still happily married because we just had a role not to be more than two weeks away from each other, so we would no matter where we were, we would meet somewhere or be together. And she's amazing and so she's kind of changed my life in many ways.
Chris Grimes:
What a great testament to the formula for a successful relationship never be apart for more than two weeks, and you managed to do that throughout.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it wasn't easy at times, but she's she's a fantastic, fantastic mum as well.
Chris Grimes:
And is she in the industry too, because she mentioned the screenwriting that you're doing together currently.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, yes, she is, she's. She worked as a. When I first met her, she was much more successful than me. She was a very successful prosthetic makeup artist. She was part of the team that did Lord of the Rings and lots of other jobs, but then. But she's always been an artist. She's been a sculptor and a painter and when we had children, we had four children under the age of seven, so she got working or she wanted to spend time with the children, but she would still sculpt and paint. And then she started writing and she's studying and MA in screenwriting and she's, she's, she's amazing. I mean, she's read about. She must have read a thousand scripts and broke them down and analyze them. So she's got a natural ability. Really, she's much more talented than me. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a bit of a workhorse, but she's the artist of the family. I'm honest.
Chris Grimes:
And I love your attitude towards coping with rejection and indeed there is a you've actually in terms of giving it back, I think you you also have a bursa, or bursary that's attached to John Osborne Hughes's in depth as well now, which is again really touching, that you do that too in terms of playing it forward, playing it back, that sort of thing.
Eddie Marsan:
Oh yeah, well, someone did it for me. So you know, you try and help as much as you can, yeah, Wonderful.
Chris Grimes:
Okay, so that's for shaping. That's wonderful. Now three things that inspire you. So if there's any overlap, that's really fine. But now three things that inspire you, Andy Mawson.
Eddie Marsan:
Three things that inspire me. I think when I was at drama school I was one of the only I think I might have been the only boy from the council state there and I was very insecure and very belligerent and quite angry. And a friend of mine, jason Woods, who gave up being an actor and now works with special needs children in Wales in drama workshops, he gave me the Daodiching by Lao Tzu and it's like Chinese poetry really, but the essence of it was the word paradox and I found the Daodiching to me. I never realised it was such a word called paradox. I never realised that there could be two truths that exist at the same time and I found the Daodiching one of the most inspiring things that I've ever read really, and does that manifest?
Chris Grimes:
it's a book, the Daodiching, or is it a philosophy?
Eddie Marsan:
I know it's both the book is, the philosophy is Daoism, but the book is the Daodiching, which I don't quite understand what the translation will be. It's kind of the way of things, I think, but it just opened my mind because there was a famous Swedish philosopher who said that there are substantial truths, the opposite of which are obviously right, and there are insubstantial truths, the opposite of which are obviously wrong, and I thought that was wonderful. And I think one of the reasons the problems with social media is that it's so binary that it can't incorporate paradox and complexity. So people begin to mistake winning an argument for finding a solution. Sometimes you can win an argument, but then you haven't found a solution Absolutely.
Chris Grimes:
No, absolutely. I think that is the great fatal flaw. The binaryism of society is the great fatal flaw of the moment.
Eddie Marsan:
I think so yeah.
Chris Grimes:
I think so Wonderful. That's a great inspiring, and do you have a physical book close to hand, then I'm not asking you to share it to me, but is that something you've heard?
Eddie Marsan:
Yes, I have it on my desk, yeah, and my kids and I and my wife. We have a WhatsApp group and I sometimes send them these quotes and my kids get really bored.
Chris Grimes:
I love a good quote. I'm not trying to hijack your group, but I absolutely feel so. Inspired by the right quotes, they're fantastic.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, they are fantastic, and that's the Zao Li Ching. Who else inspired? I think Philip Seymour Hoffman inspired me as an actor. I worked with him twice. I was lucky enough to work with him on Mission Impossible and then, six months before he died, I worked with him on a I forget the name of the film now. I've done so many but I worked with him and I found him to be somebody who was technically adept as an actor but had the freedom of some. Actors are very free and very relaxed, but they don't create other characters. There's something technically lacking in them and Philip, I found, was the most balanced of all those.
Chris Grimes:
Really, A sort of chameleon-like state. You mean Chameleon I?
Eddie Marsan:
would say, but always authentic and relaxed. And I try to emulate Steve, and I mean I think I tried to emulate Philip, and I think the closest we have in this country at the moment would probably be Toby Jones. He's a good friend of mine and he's very interesting because Toby and I are very good friends, but we have completely opposite approaches to acting. He comes from the cock and I come from the Stanislaski and yet so I find it absolutely fascinating to talk to him about his techniques and I learn a lot from what I've worked with him a few times, and I learn a lot from working with him.
Chris Grimes:
And we have him in common as well. By the way, his wife, karen, is one of my wife's oldest, oldest friends. Oh, he's wonderful, toby, very well with you.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, he's been a good friend of mine for years and him and Karen came to my fifth beer and they were dancing the night away. She was up and boogieing with all the people from Bethel Green. It was fantastic.
Chris Grimes:
Wonderful and how lovely that you've got Philip Seymour Hoffman and Toby Jones and together you're a trio of inspiration for each other and he had such potential, philip Seymour Hoffman. Obviously it was a great tragedy of the early demise.
Eddie Marsan:
He did. I spoke to him six months before he died and all we did really was sat down and talked about the logistics of being a parent and being an actor. We spoke about how difficult it was to get back for like to watch soccer matches or basketball matches or to be there for school plays or parent and teachers evenings, and we just sat and spoke about. Most actors do it, you kind of, because we all know how to act. The big challenge is to marry our careers without personal life. And then we kind of spoke about that really and I found that absolutely lovely with him, how generous he was in that regard, lovely.
Chris Grimes:
Third inspiration.
Eddie Marsan:
Oh, my third inspiration, I think I well, my big political inspiration was Neil Kinnock. I always loved Neil Kinnock. I loved that speech he made in I think I was about 16, 17, in 1985 when he faced down militant at the Labour Party Conference, and I was always inspired by him, because I have an aversion to extremists. I don't trust people who are extreme because I think that they're not seeing the paradox within something, and I think that there is a degree of paradox within any within politics, economics, within philosophy, within anything. And I always felt that someone like Neil Kinnock paved the way for somebody for the Labour government between 1997 and 2010. If it wasn't for Neil Kinnock, you would never have had it and he never became Prime Minister, but I thought he was an incredibly gifted leader of the Labour Party and I remember being inspired by him. He was my first person who ever inspired me politically.
Chris Grimes:
And of himself. A paradox, because everyone expected the sort of crown of he would become leader. And of course, the paradox he didn't.
Eddie Marsan:
He didn't, but he was a bit like the Moses of Neil Kinnock, really.
Chris Grimes:
Also, I love the fact that, actually, in terms of a through line for your story and journey, the paradox of rejection is very interesting, because rejection does not mean it's all over. It means this doesn't open another one might and will, and indeed did, for you.
Eddie Marsan:
Yes, yes, I mean, one of the greatest lessons I've learned as an actor is is that you are the causal effect of your life, that opportunities can come and go and, like you know, you can as an actor. You can get very close to a part and not get it. They'll give it to someone that you get done to last two or last three and some people that can that can break them. But I always tell, I always told myself and I tell actors but what you've got to remember is that that opportunity that came, it came because of you, because of the work you're putting in. So if you carry on putting that work in, those opportunities will come and go.
Eddie Marsan:
But it's you are the causal effect. Just work on the causal effect and everything else will fall into place. It's like auditions, every audition. Don't try to don't, don't think it's only successful if I get the job. Yes, because you've got no control over over how you get the job. The only thing you can really control is whether you are excellent in the audition. So if you leave excellence all over the place, eventually it will come back to you.
Chris Grimes:
Great philosophy and indeed that's brilliant advice and the fact you've also experienced that very viscerally from within. It isn't. It doesn't come across as sort of just façal advice. It's very deeply rooted in your own experience.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, yeah, I remember reading something about an actor the other day who made a great point. He used to think that his job was an actor and audition was like a real pain in the butt. And then he suddenly realized no, my job is to audition. And then he started getting auditions because he accepted. He thought that's my job. My job is just to do these brilliantly and don't worry about it, you know, don't worry about whether I give it.
Chris Grimes:
Yes, a wonderful, profound mindset shift to actually bring about greater success and stop battling the elements that provide opportunity. Yes, yeah, the paradox within I love the through line of that Fantastic. So now we're on to two things that never fail to, oh squirrels, grab your attention. That's borrowed from the film Up, by the way. I'm sure you got that notion. It's where the dog goes, oh squirrels. So what always never fails to grab your attention, irrespective of anything else that might be going on for you, eddie?
Eddie Marsan:
I'm a big Tottenham fan. The ups and downs of spurs always grabs my attention. I love the way they're playing at the moment. That's probably one of my big passions the spurs. I'm really excited about them. Music I love music. I love to dance. I got into acting through dancing. I'm a bit of an old soul boy really. If I'm in the kitchen cooking Sunday lunch, quite often you'll see me dancing around the kitchen quite a lot. Those things are something that always enable me to switch off. They're actually the relevance of my growing up in town. Those are the two things that I've kept with me all the time.
Chris Grimes:
There's a lovely groundedness in the working class background that you had. I loved researching you. Your dad was a lorry driver.
Eddie Marsan:
Is he still with us? My dad is yes. He's 86, yeah.
Chris Grimes:
Same age as my dad, actually, but your mum is no longer with us. No, she died five years ago yeah. Wonderful. Next to squirrel. You've got spurs as one. What's your other squirrel or monster of distraction?
Eddie Marsan:
I think my children actually my kids always surprised me. They're incredibly bright, incredibly open and curious the way they discuss issues like sexuality and gender. It's just me and my wife sit at the table and just kind of have to shut up and listen to them. Really, because they're brilliant, the new generation of people. They're so open about gender fluidity and sexuality and it's no longer an issue for them and their ability to take that on board, you suddenly realise how we were.
Eddie Marsan:
What I've realised is I've realised that there's lots of kids going through a kind of gender fluidity and not wanting to be defined. And I was talking to my 13-year-old son and I was realising that, although it's not the same, I remember coming from a very working-class East End background and then having to have a very Going into theatre and going into film and working with people who studied at Oxford and Cambridge and struggling to find myself and realising that one of the only ways I could cope was not to define myself, not allow other people to define me and not to be defined. And I think that these young people they're just trying to find themselves as teenagers and we've got to allow them and give them the love and support to find themselves and when I talk to my kids I can really see it within them. They don't want to be defined in ways that we were comfortable. We didn't even realise that we were being defined, but we were, and I find it amazing how open my children are and accepting they are.
Chris Grimes:
And again, the free flow of paradox is right in there because it's about that paradox.
Eddie Marsan:
Yes, yes, and also the Buddhist notion of a napkin, that there is no self, that we do exist, but we don't exist as a fixed thing and what human beings need to do. We always try to fix things, we always try to say things are going to be eternally this way and that's the way it is. And the human mind doesn't work like that Do. Human existence is on a spectrum. We all live on a spectrum, you know.
Chris Grimes:
Boom Tastic, lovely. Now A quirky or unusual fact about you, eddie Marston. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.
Eddie Marsan:
I'm a Dexter cardiac.
Chris Grimes:
Thank you very much. Tell us more, please.
Eddie Marsan:
A Dexter cardiac is someone whose heart is on the wrong side. Oh wow, my heart is on the right and left hand side. I thought Must be right. Oh yeah, all my visual organs are reversed, so my kidney and my liver and all these are all the opposite way around.
Chris Grimes:
And how extraordinary that you're an actor, because that's from Hamlet, showing the mirror to nature, isn't it? That's reflected of self, yes, so what's the condition called it's called. It's not a condition.
Eddie Marsan:
It's called sinus inverters, which means all your visceral organs are reversed. But I was initially diagnosed when I was a child as a Dexter cardiac. There's no side effects to it. There's no. I mean, one doctor told me that one of the amazing things is that 50% of the population aren't the other way. There's no reason why.
Chris Grimes:
Yes.
Eddie Marsan:
There's no reason why 50% of the population it's just a genetic blip that most people, that everybody's one-sided.
Chris Grimes:
And in your early days of playing doctors and nurses, you must have given few people a bit of a surprise. There's no surprise. Yes.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, when I was a kid in hospital they used to line up all these students to try and find out what To see, if they could work out what was wrong with me or why they couldn't hear my heart when they saw what they were supposed to hear it.
Chris Grimes:
That's a really awesome, cool fact, thank you. We have shaken the canopy of your tree, ernie Marcell Hurrah. Now we stay in the clearing, we move away from the tree. Next we're talking about alchemy and you see, by the way, I've got a bell which I don't have to use If we go down any rabbit holes. It's a bit like Keshe Number three please, just sort of. But we're not doing any of that. You're being absolutely wonderful in terms of the curated structure. So alchemy in gold. Now is when you're at purpose and in flow. You're implying what this might be, in any case in what it is you're describing. But what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?
Eddie Marsan:
I think I think sitting on the sofa with my kids having a movie night, watching a great film, I'm introducing them to great films. I introduced my kids to Real Window about six months ago. We all sat and watched it and they were like, oh God, don't use really old film by the end of a fascinating day. I think that's one of my greatest pleasures, really. I can't wait. I haven't shown them the Godfather yet, but I want to show them the Godfather because it's my favourite film.
Chris Grimes:
And in fact that inspires my apples in the tree. How do you like these apples? It sort of inspired a little bit by that as well. And sorry, you didn't say what they said about Real Window. I oh, they loved it.
Eddie Marsan:
They thought it was amazing, especially when the murderer sees the guy at the window and you know he's going to come over. It's terrifying. And I told them about Hitchcock and how he was actually in East London, what an amazing filmmaker he was. And they really my two oldest. Well, three of my children now study in film. My daughter studies film at university, my son's studying at the A level, my other son's about to study at the A level, so they really appreciate film now.
Chris Grimes:
Well, then what's the next film on the sofa, please, that you might be doing, or you don't know yet?
Eddie Marsan:
No, I don't know. I want to show them the Godfather. I want to show them Jean de Florets as well. I think that's an amazing.
Chris Grimes:
Yes, and of course, you worked with Martin Scorsese in Gangs of New York as well.
Eddie Marsan:
I did, yes, I did yes, yeah, I worked with him, for we did nine months on that film and I ended up with two lines in the final cut.
Chris Grimes:
Wow, and Daniel Delos was at the Bristol Ovid Theatre School where I went, and Right.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah.
Chris Grimes:
He would always say Danny, danny, oh, you should have seen him Because he was just brilliant. And then he would use the same sentence Chris Grimes, Chris, chris, you should have seen him. I'm only kidding, but it's the same. Ha ha ha. Same inflection, but slightly different intent. Wonderful. So we're now up to the point of I'm going to award you with a cake, eddie Marson. So, first of all, it's a multi-layered cake. But do you like cake? Just a.
Eddie Marsan:
I do too much, too much. I've actually had a break because we're now in the strike. I actually have had a couple of months off and I've lost weight. I've been going back to the gym and getting my life back because I've been working solidly for like nearly 20 years now and when I finished my last film I was exhausted and I suddenly realised how much weight I've lost by not working, because I eat loads of bad food and film sets. I'm terrible.
Chris Grimes:
Could so easily have gone the other way, as in when you're not working, hit the pies because you're not working and you do comfort eating to compensate for that, yeah, but I eat for energy on film because I do long hours, so I eat for yeah, of course. Yeah. So now you get to put it. So what's the cake of choice if you're able to have one, if you're indulging yourself?
Eddie Marsan:
Oh, it's an apple pie custard with cream on top.
Chris Grimes:
Of course. Eddie, that's a beautifully working class Apple pie. Custard cream Lovely Squit. That on, jobs are good. Bolshevue well. Fannish, well, it's a good pie, anyway, brilliant. Now it's a multi-layered cake where you're now hopefully going to tell us stuff like what's a favourite inspirational quote that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future.
Eddie Marsan:
It's. This too will pass. That's always. That's always, Even when things are good, this too will pass. When things are bad, this too will pass. So enjoy the good things and don't get too upset about the bad things.
Chris Grimes:
Love that. Enjoy what this is, before it isn't. And yes, and I love that.
Eddie Marsan:
Great for the. I think it's Wordsworth. There's a famous he who bends to himself a joy does the winged life destroy, but he who kisses a joy as it flies, lives in eternity sunrise. I always thought that was always inspired me.
Chris Grimes:
Ooh, I'm very happy that I lingered a bit longer to get an extra. I've squeezed another bit of lemon out of you in terms of that was great. Thank you Lovely, and what's, the best piece of advice you've ever been given.
Eddie Marsan:
The best piece of advice I was ever given was strive to have an ordinary life and an extraordinary career. Don't try and have an extraordinary life and have an ordinary career.
Chris Grimes:
Love that. What notes help or advice? Now you've got the beauty and the gift of hindsight, would you proffer to a younger version of Eddie Marson?
Eddie Marsan:
I think that when you speak, you're usually repeating something you already know, but when you listen, you're going to find out something new. I think that's something I'd don't be afraid to. Don't be. Sit within your ignorance. When I was younger, I was always the most uneducated person in the rehearsal room and people always knew things more than me and I tried to front it out, initially by being kind of this tough working class rebel, and it was just a show, really. And actually, if you don't know, there's nothing wrong in not knowing anything, in the Doubting. It says that ignorance is human condition. So be comfortable with your ignorance. Sit within your ignorance and, from that, listen and ask questions.
Eddie Marsan:
One of the things, most profound things that happened to me was I remember working with people who had had much more privileged upbringing than me and much more, much better education. And then and I resented them and then one day I just asked questions and the generosity of people. If you ask questions, the generosity of people is incredible. No one, if you ask a question, no one thinks you're sick, they just think you're curious. You know, but when I was younger I used to think that the asking a question was was was letting them know that I was ignorant and that was something that I wasn't prepared to do, and I think the big change for me was was just asking questions.
Chris Grimes:
And, of course, what's so lovely there about this philosophy and the psychology of acting is that the best, best, best actors are ones that are acutely good at listening. Acting is reacting. It's all about making sure you're an acute listener, so that's yeah yeah, yeah, even talent, talented.
Eddie Marsan:
I remember someone describing talent is the ability to ask questions, which I think is really quite interesting. Actually, it's the ability to keep asking questions all the time.
Chris Grimes:
Yeah. So now we're going to ramp up, penultimately, to a little bit of Shakespeare. All the world has cheated, all the better. We did, clearly, players to talk about legacy, but just before we get there, if I may now say this is past the golden baton moment, please. So, now that you've experienced this from within, eddie Marson actor, who would you most like to pass the golden baton onto, who you think might really enjoy this process and this journey?
Eddie Marsan:
Um, um, uh. Daniel Mays, I think, would be fantastic. I think he's a. He's a friend of mine, he's a we have. We come from similar backgrounds. He's an amazing actor. I've just spent six months working with him in Paris. We have a week, we have similar lives, we have a year as three kids I have four, with both working class lads, but trying not to be defined as working class actors. He's got incredibly diverse career. He's doing guys and dolls. At the moment. He I've just we've just done this thing with Michael Douglas and him in Paris and he's one of the most diverse actors. I think he would. He would enjoy this process. I think that if he, if he would have come from a more privileged background, if he'd have come from a more privileged background especially with the way it was fashionable a few years ago I think he would have been adorned with awards, like like BAFTAs and things. But because I think people underestimated him. So he's one of my heroes really.
Chris Grimes:
There's obviously a lovely resonance and echo because in the early days there was an underestimation, I would assume, in how your path was going. But of course, keep on keeping on and keep persistence and the opportunities begin to open.
Eddie Marsan:
Yeah, yeah, there was, there was, but, but you know, yeah, don't let people define you. John Thor would always say keep them guessing. Yes, but you know, don't allow anybody to make sure as many people as possible have a different idea of you, and then your career will last much longer. If they haven't fixed idea of you, you're in trouble.
Chris Grimes:
Yeah, thank you so much for that generous baton pass. So that's Daniel May, you said, didn't you? Thank you? Yeah, yeah. And now, inspired by Shakespeare, all the worlds of stage and all the men and women, merely players, were talking about legacy. Now, eddie Marston, how, when all is said and done, would you most like to be remembered?
Eddie Marsan:
Um, I think I'd most like like to be remembered as somebody who transcended other people's idea of them. So of him, I think, and to allow and to encourage other people to transcend their idea this is something that's really personal to me is that it is to allow kids from not only from underprivileged backgrounds, but from any, from any background, really to don't don't define yourself, don't limit yourself. You know, there is, there is no. Human beings are just pure potential, that the idea of a self doesn't exist, a fixed self doesn't exist. All you are pure potential. You are part of the great becoming. You are subject to the environment around you, so affect the environment around you and you are part of it, and and and and forgive yourself. We all make mistakes and I think if I my legacy, if someone could, it would be that really is to encourage people to go beyond their self-inflicted boundaries.
Chris Grimes:
So that is the kind of remarkable leadership for myself, particularly the children.
Eddie Marsan:
Where can we find out all and more about you? On the old Internet, eddie Margian? Longer debate with nuance or complexity, so I'll kind of step back from that. I don't know really. I don't have a website or anything. I mean you can look at the BAFTA masterclass. That's long, any long form. Interviews are good, really, because they enable you to talk about things with complexity and nuance. You know, which is quite rare now, because people want to work with in sound bites and argue within sound bites.
Chris Grimes:
Yes, a very restricted number of characters exactly. Yes, exactly, and at the very beginning I did mention, of course. Thank you for reiterating that that is your BAFTA career retrospective with Miranda Sawyer and that's a wonderful film and again it was so generous. Your projection of you know towards John, your generosity towards John Osborne Hughes, Thank you. So, as this has been your moment in the sunshine, in the Good, Listening to Show stories of distinction and genius, Eddie Marson, is there anything else you'd like to say?
Eddie Marsan:
No, not really. I've really enjoyed it and I've really had a lovely time. Just this two will pass. That's probably all. That's the best advice I can give, really.
Chris Grimes:
So, ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to the wonderful Eddie Marson. Thank you so much for saying yes and thank you for being here. It's been a real privilege listening to you, it's been a real pleasure.
Eddie Marsan:
Thank you very much.
Chris Grimes:
And check out the new website at wwwthegoodlisteningtoshowcom. This has been Eddie Marson. I've been Chris Grimes. Tune in next time for more stories from the Clearing. And Good Night. You've been listening to the Good Listening to Show here on UK Health Radio with me, chris Grimes. Oh, it's my son. If you've enjoyed the show, then please do tune in next week to listen to more stories from the Clearing. If you'd like to connect with me on LinkedIn, then please do so. There's also a dedicated Facebook group for the show too. You can contact me about the programme or, if you'd be interested in experiencing some personal impact coaching with me, carry my level up your impact programme. That's chrisatsecondcurveuk. On Twitter and Instagram, it's at thatchrisgrimes. So until next time for me, chris Grimes, from UK Health Radio. I'm from Stan. To your good health and goodbye. So, eddie Marson, you've just been given a good listening to. If I could just get your immediate feedback on what that felt like to be curated through this journey.
Eddie Marsan:
Oh, it was wonderful. Actually it was a bit like one of those talking inspirational things you put in a car when you're on a long drive and it kind of inspires you all the time. I loved it. It was fantastic.
